Virginia Beach Kings?!

kennadog said:
The city CANNOT forgive the loan to the team. The money wasn't borrowed from the city in the first place. Private investors provided the money by buying city-backed bonds. The city has to get paid back or all the principle and interest due to the investors has been guranteed to be paid back by the city. We damn well better not let the Maoofs skip town and leave the city to pay the bill. I would hope the league woild not let a team default on a loan guaranteed by a city. They don't need their owners to be seen as likely deadbeats. Talk about killing the golden goose in arena financing. :mad:.
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Yeah, I can't imagine that David Stern would allow the Kings to move if they were going to cause that kind of financial harm to Sacramento.
 
Brac-o-matic said:
Yeah, I can't imagine that David Stern would allow the Kings to move if they were going to cause that kind of financial harm to Sacramento.
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David Stern has nothing to do with allowing Kings to move if they want to - other than voice an opinion. It's a process in which Kings owners can petition to relocate (March 1st each year) with BoG vote up or down usually sometime during summer. Stern has no vote because he's simply an employee (albiet influential one) of real boss man - the 30 NBA franchise owners.
 
When will this mockery and sham of an 'ownership' stop? They've made both themselves AND our city of Sacramento a laughing stock! It needs to end!
 
VF21 said:
I would advise that you not ever underestimate the power of David Stern. :)
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At this point, all he can do is say he disagrees, but there's nothing he can do to stop the rest of the owners from voting in favor of the Maloofs moving to one of the 1237 cities that have been rumored. Seattle, KC, Virginia, Anaheim, Timbucktu, who cares!!
 
You're assuming the other owners are in favor of helping the Maloofs. I don't subscribe to that theory. And we'll have to agree to disagree about just how much leverage David Stern has with the other 29 owners. :)
 
Smh...Can anyone think of any other city that has been through as much as we have? Not Seattle, not Charlotte, not Vancouver...nowhere else, especially one with only 1 pro sports team, has there been a city and its fans been held hostage by its owners in MULTIPLE relocation/rumored relocations! Just horrible!
 
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Circa_1985_Fan said:
At this point, all he can do is say he disagrees, but there's nothing he can do to stop the rest of the owners from voting in favor of the Maloofs moving to one of the 1237 cities that have been rumored. Seattle, KC, Virginia, Anaheim, Timbucktu, who cares!!
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It is hard to believe that the owners would hurt themselves in the long run to pander to the Maloofs. At the very least, the league would have to make sure the Maloofs pay the bond loan. If they default on the loan, no city is going to want to help any team financially. Also, the Maloofs walking away from a city and league approved deal will make it harder for any owner looking for help on a new arena from any city, especially the smaller and mid-market teams.

Nobody in the league is benefiting from the mess the Maloofs are creating.
 
kennadog said:
The city CANNOT forgive the loan to the team. The money wasn't borrowed from the city in the first place. Private investors provided the money by buying city-backed bonds. The city has to get paid back or all the principle and interest due to the investors has been guranteed to be paid back by the city. We damn well better not let the Maoofs skip town and leave the city to pay the bill. I would hope the league woild not let a team default on a loan guaranteed by a city. They don't need their owners to be seen as likely deadbeats. Talk about killing the golden goose in arena financing. :mad:

Its like FHA loans to homebuyers. Private lenders loan the money, e.g. a bank, but the federal government guarantees through the FHA program that the governemt will pay the lender what's due, if the homeowner defaults. Yes, folks. All those people being foreclosed are having their loans paid off by the taxpayers, if the loan was an FHA loan.

The people in Sacramento will have to pay off the bondholders, if the Maloofs skip town without paying. I'm sure the city would sue, but that would cost loads of money and take time. In the interim the city would have to keep up the payments on the loan. They could take over the property in Natiomas and sell it, but that won't pay off the whole loan by a long shot and the land can't be built on right now, because of the moratorium.
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This is true. But it can be refinanced and the collateral and repayment come from another source. The problem is that this thing is in limbo with the city and the Maloofs. They are basically stuck at Arco and the near future of higher payments due on the bonds looming. The last arena deal wasn't quite enough of a sure thing to get the Maloofs to commit. I've looked at all the different aspects of the deal and they all seemed to be very fair. The only thing that was a major risk for the Maloofs was the '97 loan payback was pretty much sidestepped and not really addressed other than "we can look at that down the line".

The team is tough to sell because of the debt. If a 400 million dollar offer isn't worth taking because the walk away money is too small, then the Maloofs are basically stuck. That is until Hansen and Ballmer come up with a way to put more money into the deal. And forget even talking about Burkle because he won't even go as high as Hansen's rejected offer. It's like trying to sell an upside down house that you can't walk away from. They are stuck until one party is able to come up with an answer. The least expensive option is still to keep the team in town. However, the city can't sit on their rear and wait for the Maloofs to do something.

Thus my suggestion was to agree to work on refinancing the '97 loan so that debt was shifted off the team and onto another source on the condition that the Maloofs sell the team to a buyer that agrees to the previously worked out arena term sheet. The new arena was never the problem. It was the '97 - I'm almost positive. All that junk that George was throwing out was probably just posturing to get to a point where the loan was up for discussion.

So we can either just sit here and watch other cities trying solve this puzzle or we work with what we can control. I think it would be difficult to work out, but not more difficult than some of the ideas to build the arena with no tenant. I think the city has to make the next move here or we are just sitting ducks.
 
There's a penalty if the current bond is paid off early. That adds to the problem. You can refinance, but you'd have to pay the pre-payment penalty and pay off the current bondholders, then you could refinance with a new bond that would not be as attractive to investors, because it would have a much lower interest rate in the current market. Any re-finance would have to come through the sale of new bonds.

The city has done an amazing amount of work and effort. Very impressive work on this last deal. Not once over the last 10-12 years have the Maloofs offered anything in any deal. All they have done around is sit around and wait for the city to come up with something and then say no or storm out. The city really can't offer a better deal than what was just turned down by the Maloofs. They didn't even try and negotiate they flat said no to a deal the city offered that was a good deal and that the league backed.

The bottom line is that the Maloofs just do not want to be in Sacramento. I can almost guarantee they will turn down any offer here, except a free arena, where the city pays for it and they gt the lion's share of the revenue. That's not going to happen.

I am pretty darn certain that our only hope is new ownership. I get the feeling that the league (read other owners) would like to see the Maloofs gone. Stern has certainly been putting the squeeze on the Maloofs in subtle ways.
 
The loan on Arco is a major issue and something that cannot be wiggled out of easily. I think it would be much easier to do the wiggling with the reported $100 million loan that the Kings have from the NBA. At least that is one thing NBA has some control over. While no one in their right mind can expect that much money to just be forgotten about, I am sure there would be ways that is can be manipulated to entice Maloofs to sell to the NBA that in turn sells the team to the owner that is willing to agree to the terms of the Arena deal and keep the Kings in Sacramento long term.

I am not sure if that is even legal or possible but idea of forgiving or refinancing the 97 loan is just about impossible to pull off.
 
The Maloofs wren't there, although it would have been wild if they were, seeing as how I believe this whole Virginia Beach issue is a wild rumor that shouldn't have been propogated to the extent it was. Really, if this were Seattle, or even San Jose, I would have been nervous.. who knows what is upcoming unless this is resolved
 
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that WOULD be quite the luck for you! d'oh!

it would actually be the best possible move for the kings for ME personally. My in laws live in Norfolk, and it is only about 3 hours from here... i could plan my inlaw visits around home stands :)
 
For those who didn't get to watch it, which seems to be everyone, here is how this big breaking headline inducing story apparently played out:

1) Comcast shows up in front of the VB council/mayor. No Maloofs or Kings reps, Comcast.

2) Comcast proposes a public/private partnership to build an arena ala the one that the Maloofs scuttled in Sacto

3) VB councilmembers immediately start balking, say afterwards that hey, if you want to come and build it yourself with 100% your money then we welcome you, but we aren't going to give you anything at all. No money, no free land, nothing.

4) Comcast putters on, uses 200mile wide area as the market size. Which is to say most of Eastern VA.

5) nothing comes of it

End result much handwringing etc. for absolutely nothing. its miles behind what was proposed and set up in Sacto just a few months ago in nearly every way. Now we can return to worrying that some irrelevant nobody doesn't like our jerseys and that the concourse has a new floor. TDOS indeed.
 
So why doesnt KJ call up Comcast and tell them with their $150 mil investment, and the city's $250 parking money, and they can guarantee the 97Mil loan from the Maloofs and guarantee the Kings lease for 25 years, they can build their shiney new arena right here in downtown sacramento!! Heck we will throw in the naming rights for free!!! Kings throw in 1st right of refusal on selling the team.
Mallofs are tenants with no real financial responsibility! Its a win Win!! A public/private partnership just like they want in VB !
 
Bricklayer said:
For those who didn't get to watch it, which seems to be everyone, here is how this big breaking headline inducing story apparently played out:

1) Comcast shows up in front of the VB council/mayor. No Maloofs or Kings reps, Comcast.

2) Comcast proposes a public/private partnership to build an arena ala the one that the Maloofs scuttled in Sacto

3) VB councilmembers immediately start balking, say afterwards that hey, if you want to come and build it yourself with 100% your money then we welcome you, but we aren't going to give you anything at all. No money, no free land, nothing.

4) Comcast putters on, uses 200mile wide area as the market size. Which is to say most of Eastern VA.

5) nothing comes of it

End result much handwringing etc. for absolutely nothing. its miles behind what was proposed and set up in Sacto just a few months ago in nearly every way. Now we can return to worrying that some irrelevant nobody doesn't like our jerseys and that the concourse has a new floor. TDOS indeed.
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I've been following the reports. Pretty much has me wondering WTH Comcast is doing pushing that deal there? Makes zero sense because that situation is NEVER going to materialize. Giant waste of attention on everyone's part. Looks like Comcast got into a partnership with AEG's competitor and this was the best they could come up with? Even one of the VB council members shredded their presentation saying they overstated many things.

Any member of the media flogging this dead horse after today should be considered a joke.
 
Great article written by Aaron Bruski, had some interesting tidbits in it

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/28/comcast-spectacor-hasnt-spoken-with-kings-at-all-arena-project-barely-off-the-ground/

This sentiment was echoed by Carmichael Dave, a well-connected arena proponent and local radio personality whose dismissal from the team-sponsored radio station drew raised eyebrows in Sacramento. On his new show on the CD Networks, sources of his close to the team said that the Maloofs had rejected an offer from Seattle billionaire Chris Hansen which was upward of $400 million.

Dave also added that those sources said the Maloofs were “looking more to relocate than to sell.”
 
kingjatt said:
Great article written by Aaron Bruski, had some interesting tidbits in it

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....s-at-all-arena-project-barely-off-the-ground/

This sentiment was echoed by Carmichael Dave, a well-connected arena proponent and local radio personality whose dismissal from the team-sponsored radio station drew raised eyebrows in Sacramento. On his new show on the CD Networks, sources of his close to the team said that the Maloofs had rejected an offer from Seattle billionaire Chris Hansen which was upward of $400 million.

Dave also added that those sources said the Maloofs were “looking more to relocate than to sell.”
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I wish this Hansen guy would get lost.. Seattle has how many professional teams already? The Sonics were third fiddle at best when they were there.. I can remember the year the Sonics beat us in the first round of the playoffs, the Mariners were still front page. Why does he care so much if Seattle gets NBA or NHL? He's the new Samueli as far as the threat is concerned
 
Kingsfan23 said:
I wish this Hansen guy would get lost.. Seattle has how many professional teams already? The Sonics were third fiddle at best when they were there.. I can remember the year the Sonics beat us in the first round of the playoffs, the Mariners were still front page. Why does he care so much if Seattle gets NBA or NHL? He's the new Samueli as far as the threat is concerned
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Indeed, this is the one case where the Maloofs being stubborn idiots about selling is absolutely essential to Sacto keeping the Kings.
 
Circa_1985_Fan said:
So...anyone want to predict what happens next in this drama?? Smh
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That is the thing, THERE WAS NO DRAMA. A story comes out, Kings fans are really apt to beleive anything of this nature at this point, so everybody either gets all riled or all depressed or whatever....and THERE WAS NO STORY. VB/Comcast were revealed to be nowhere near as much a threat as a half dozen places Kingsfans already knew about. The original sotry shoudl never have run. There was nothing to it. But I can tell already its effected some people's feelings about the upcoming season in apparently permament ways despite being nothing but a load of hot air.
 
Bricklayer said:
For those who didn't get to watch it, which seems to be everyone, here is how this big breaking headline inducing story apparently played out:

1) Comcast shows up in front of the VB council/mayor. No Maloofs or Kings reps, Comcast.

2) Comcast proposes a public/private partnership to build an arena ala the one that the Maloofs scuttled in Sacto

3) VB councilmembers immediately start balking, say afterwards that hey, if you want to come and build it yourself with 100% your money then we welcome you, but we aren't going to give you anything at all. No money, no free land, nothing.

4) Comcast putters on, uses 200mile wide area as the market size. Which is to say most of Eastern VA.

5) nothing comes of it

End result much handwringing etc. for absolutely nothing. its miles behind what was proposed and set up in Sacto just a few months ago in nearly every way. Now we can return to worrying that some irrelevant nobody doesn't like our jerseys and that the concourse has a new floor. TDOS indeed.
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the tidewater market area is really no different than the Sacramento market area in this regard. they are both sprawling areas that incorporate many population "centers" that are not giant individually, but when taken together amount to something. I don't have hard numbers about the absolute size differences between the two markets, but the argument about how you define each market is exactly the same.

and then both markets suffer from their proximity to bigger "sexier" markets. Sac suffers from the draw of the Bay area, and VA beach suffers from its proximity to DC (although sac is closer tot the bay area than tidewater is to DC)
 
JB_kings said:
This is true. But it can be refinanced and the collateral and repayment come from another source. The problem is that this thing is in limbo with the city and the Maloofs. They are basically stuck at Arco and the near future of higher payments due on the bonds looming. The last arena deal wasn't quite enough of a sure thing to get the Maloofs to commit. I've looked at all the different aspects of the deal and they all seemed to be very fair. The only thing that was a major risk for the Maloofs was the '97 loan payback was pretty much sidestepped and not really addressed other than "we can look at that down the line".

The team is tough to sell because of the debt. If a 400 million dollar offer isn't worth taking because the walk away money is too small, then the Maloofs are basically stuck. That is until Hansen and Ballmer come up with a way to put more money into the deal. And forget even talking about Burkle because he won't even go as high as Hansen's rejected offer. It's like trying to sell an upside down house that you can't walk away from. They are stuck until one party is able to come up with an answer. The least expensive option is still to keep the team in town. However, the city can't sit on their rear and wait for the Maloofs to do something.

Thus my suggestion was to agree to work on refinancing the '97 loan so that debt was shifted off the team and onto another source on the condition that the Maloofs sell the team to a buyer that agrees to the previously worked out arena term sheet. The new arena was never the problem. It was the '97 - I'm almost positive. All that junk that George was throwing out was probably just posturing to get to a point where the loan was up for discussion.

So we can either just sit here and watch other cities trying solve this puzzle or we work with what we can control. I think it would be difficult to work out, but not more difficult than some of the ideas to build the arena with no tenant. I think the city has to make the next move here or we are just sitting ducks.
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As much as I hate the notion of it, and as much as others might disagree, I think it might be time to enter a new phase of "talks" with the Maloofs, which is possibly acquiescing to some their demands within reason, as they hold all the cards.

Should they have accepted a great deal that was plush for the average owner on terms that they verbally agreed to, ofcourse.. but they weren't happy with it, they have the team, and holding out on the hopes of a personal crusade by a soon-retiring David Stern or hoping that the other owners of the NBA feel sorry for us for a long period of time will start to become more and more tenuous as time elapses.

As much as it sukks, looking at some of the Maloofs demands and seeing if there is some wiggle room to try to meet some of them is still a lot better bet than trying to build an arena without the team
 
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