Tyreke's lack of progression

[Glenn]

I thought Tyreke would be better than he is by now, but honestly, he's the least of our trouble. Starting SF, that position that was our worst last year, still is.

Also, our bench is abysmal.

This last offseason was atrocious.

I have approached this subject from several directions but several people have brain freeze about Tyreke. He isn't our big problem and we need to see not only how HE evolves but how the team evoloves to make best use of him.

 

[mac]

Editors note: Tyreke is 11th in the league in FGM at the rim, and 4th amongst guards behind Marshon Brooks, Westbrook, and Wade. His 62.4% finshig percentage in there is better than Westbroo'ks 62.2% or Wall's 57.1%, but slightly behind Rose's 63.2%. Put please, as always, let's hold him to an impossible standard.

Thing is, for him to be effective he needs to have a much higher finishing% and FGM at the rim because he can't shoot. Russell Westbrook can pullup and shoot a midrange shot. Tyreke can't. As such, higher standards are expected of him wrt finishing at the rim. I don't think that's unreasonable. How should I put it ... if you're only good at one thing, you better be pretty damn good at it. Another problem is that when he doesn't convert, he ends up falling out of bounds and being way behind on defense while the other team gets a chance to fast break. Personally I feel what's more important for him is to improve his shot selection, whilst adding an outside game which will open up driving lanes more.

 

[Glenn]

Thing is, for him to be effective he needs to have a much higher finishing% and FGM at the rim because he can't shoot. Russell Westbrook can pullup and shoot a midrange shot. Tyreke can't. As such, higher standards are expected of him wrt finishing at the rim. I don't think that's unreasonable. How should I put it ... if you're only good at one thing, you better be pretty damn good at it. Another problem is that when he doesn't convert, he ends up falling out of bounds and being way behind on defense while the other team gets a chance to fast break. Personally I feel what's more important for him is to improve his shot selection, whilst adding an outside game which will open up driving lanes more.

Now that the league knows what he is good at and that there is no risk in sending three or four players to stop him, Tyreke gets stopped. Maybe if we had some legitimate three point threat or two to make the defenders stay at home, he would play better.

 

[mac]

Now that the league knows what he is good at and that there is no risk in sending three or four players to stop him, Tyreke gets stopped. Maybe if we had some legitimate three point threat or two to make the defenders stay at home, he would play better.

ugh don't get me started on my 3 point shooter rant. I've been saying it since Tyreke was drafted. Get a Kyle Korver, a JJ Redick, Mike Miller! I thought we finally had it in Jimmer but I think our offense needs it more from a SG/SF position in the corners. It doesn't even matter if they are one-dimensional scorers. Friggin Miami has Chalmers, Jones and Miller! We have Garcia, Salmons and Jimmer. Fail.

 

[rainmaker]

Now that the league knows what he is good at and that there is no risk in sending three or four players to stop him, Tyreke gets stopped. Maybe if we had some legitimate three point threat or two to make the defenders stay at home, he would play better.

That's a huge issue. Right now, there's no penalty for the opponent when they absolutely pack the paint. That's exactly what role players are responsible for.

Last night was a great example. Smart ran out Outlaw and Hayes together for a good chunk of time. The majority of that time NY didn't even guard them. Just took the guys who were matched up with those two, and had them shadow off Reke, so he was looking at his defender, plus another two right behind ready to help while practically ignoring Outlaw/Hayes. Same thing happens with Salmons and JJ.

 

[KingsCitizen]

IMO, if Smart can't develop Jimmer and Honeycutt into NBA starters, this team is still 3 roster spots away from making a really good noise for playoff contention. And that's not Tyreke's fault.

Thornton is good but I see him doing better in a Ginobili style 6th man role because I see Thornton as a player who needs to observe the game first before finding a way to be effective. But he should still get at least 28 mins. a game to be effective. Benching him would not mean we got another overpaid FA just sitting on the bench because Thornton is at par with his paycheck all night.

This leaves Evans and Cousins as the only legit starters on this team. We need to dig for a at least top caliber big or SF from this draft if we can't get a FA or trade for one this season.

As for the vets of this team, can't do anything else but scratch my head.
Salmons - meeeh!
Garcia - we'll I was really hoping Cisco will turn into a poor man's Bruce Bowen on this team and save Salmon's butt. But clearly the guy has aged, just too slow, especially on his lateral movements.
Greene - inconsistent
Thompson - Mr. Consistent for this team but clearly still a rotation player not a starter. I think he has not gotten over his growth spurts after all these years. He still tends to bend too low to and act like he's not a big man and hates being tall. (IMO)
Hayes - 6'6" Center says it all.

 

[mac]

IMO, if Smart can't develop Jimmer and Honeycutt into NBA starters, this team is still 3 roster spots away from making a really good noise for playoff contention. And that's not Tyreke's fault.

What sucks is we were saying the exact thing about Greene 2-3 years ago. Our SF spot has been in shambles since Artest left.

 

[Lockehead]

Probably. And as almost any idiot can get the ball to a well posted up Cuz, this need for a Jeremy Lin or Rick Rubio doesn't seem so pressing. We need a guy paired with Cuz who can create a duo that is scary to any other team in the league and I thought we had it last year already. I think the man standing next to Cuz may be as important to the team as Tyreke but only to the extent that he better be better than average. JT is OK, Daly was better, Ibaka would be cool, and Dwight would be heaven.

I liked Cuz and Daly especially when you consider this was Cuz's rookie year and Daly came to the team injured and started about half way through the season. Imagine them with a more experienced Cuz and a Daly or similar with a few years playing next to Cuz.

I'm not hijacking the thread but trying to say that the future of the Kings doesn't depend on a quick little PG.

We dont need a Nash type of PG, but someone who can move the ball around, get the ball where it should be, make some plays when he needs to, keep the pace going, etc. Defense would be good. A player like that would normally be called a PG in this league. Think Beno. He was the guy who gave Reke and Cousins the ball. He was also the guy the other guys threw the ball out to when they didn't have anything going for them, and depended on him to do something with it. A guy like that would help IMO.

FWIW i really do think Jimmer can be like Beno, with better 3 point shooting and aggressiveness, if given the opportunity.

 

[Glenn]

I think Jimmer will find his place. He seems overwhelmed at this time. I think he'll catch on as to how he should fit in. I get the sense he is asked to be that classical PG type guy and that's really not him. I wouldn't be upset if they just gave him the green light to shoot. I get the sense he feels apologetic to do anything that might stand out. He's not the kind of guy that should try to fit in and give up his three point shot. I DO shout at the screen to encourage him to shoot. He ignores me. His coach may be a great help or maybe he just kinda takes this year off and has a summer league and a real pre-season camp to get better acclimated.

 

[Arkitect]

I think Jimmer will find his place. He seems overwhelmed at this time. I think he'll catch on as to how he should fit in. I get the sense he is asked to be that classical PG type guy and that's really not him. I wouldn't be upset if they just gave him the green light to shoot. I get the sense he feels apologetic to do anything that might stand out. He's not the kind of guy that should try to fit in and give up his three point shot. I DO shout at the screen to encourage him to shoot. He ignores me. His coach may be a great help or maybe he just kinda takes this year off and has a summer league and a real pre-season camp to get better acclimated.

Smart and his teammates have given him the green light to shoot. It appears from what I have seen that he is most effective being a catch and shoot guy. He has not been very good driving to the hoop, on the break, or off the dribble. The team has to find a way to get him shots where all he has to do is catch and shoot.

 

[swisshh]

Now that the league knows what he is good at and that there is no risk in sending three or four players to stop him, Tyreke gets stopped. Maybe if we had some legitimate three point threat or two to make the defenders stay at home, he would play better.

The team has added more and more shooters since getting Reke. This has not helped Reke. Why? He doesn't get them the ball in time. I've never seen a guard throw so many sputtering kickout passes. The two converted kickouts versus NY were because the passes were on target and on time. Most of Reke's kickouts are not.

 

[VF21]

I've actually enjoyed this thread for what it was meant to be. Some newbie troll comes along and posts a radical statement to see how much **** he can stir up, and so far he's done really well.

Right glen but were talking about Tyreke and whether or not his style of play should be a part of the team going forward. Someone has to be moved Evans or Thornton and i vote Evans.

At this point, however, I could no longer hold my tongue.

We have to move Thornton (at least you spelled his name right) or Evans and you think it should be Evans? Are you freaking insane?

We don't need to get rid of either Thornton or Evans. We need to find a SF who isn't totally without redeeming value and we need to find more role players who will come off the bench and play their roles to perfection. We need more home games so our YOUNG team can continue to learn each other strengths and how to play accordingly.

The lack of patience by some Kings fans is astounding. You guys never would have made it from the beginning. You would have lost heart long before the good times. I almost wish you had been fans back then when road wins were nonexistent and home wins were rare enough to merit free Arby's Roast Beef sandwiches the next day. I would have loved to see your excuses when you came back to jump on the Vlade/Webber/Christie/Williams/Peja bandwagon.

 

[VF21]

<comments removed because of pending infraction they would have caused>

I got your back, dude.

 

[mac]

The team has added more and more shooters since getting Reke. This has not helped Reke. Why? He doesn't get them the ball in time. I've never seen a guard throw so many sputtering kickout passes. The two converted kickouts versus NY were because the passes were on target and on time. Most of Reke's kickouts are not.

Lol if I had the know how I'd go right now and compile some footage of missed 3s off pretty darn good kickouts/ plain passes from the perimeter to the open guy. Seriously dude this "most of Reke's kickouts are not good passes" thing is really stretching it IMO. Footage, please.

 

[upinsmoke]

VF21 did you just imply I am a bandwagon fan?! Dont even go there...

 

[VF21]

VF21 did you just imply I am a bandwagon fan?! Dont even go there...

Nope. I was simply making an observation about a number of fans who weren't around in the beginning, primarily because they hadn't been born yet.

 

[The_Jamal]

Lets just face the facts here:

-Tyreke is the worst passer of all time and is literally making 7 players worse with his presence

-Tyreke is a bust because he doesn't average a triple double on one of the worst teams in basketball. He's clearly not NBA star material because all players are finished products by age 22.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I've actually enjoyed this thread for what it was meant to be. Some newbie troll comes along and posts a radical statement to see how much **** he can stir up, and so far he's done really well.



At this point, however, I could no longer hold my tongue.

We have to move Thornton (at least you spelled his name right) or Evans and you think it should be Evans? Are you freaking insane?

We don't need to get rid of either Thornton or Evans. We need to find a SF who isn't totally without redeeming value and we need to find more role players who will come off the bench and play their roles to perfection. We need more home games so our YOUNG team can continue to learn each other strengths and how to play accordingly.

The lack of patience by some Kings fans is astounding. You guys never would have made it from the beginning. You would have lost heart long before the good times. I almost wish you had been fans back then when road wins were nonexistent and home wins were rare enough to merit free Arby's Roast Beef sandwiches the next day. I would have loved to see your excuses when you came back to jump on the Vlade/Webber/Christie/Williams/Peja bandwagon.

I have been around since the beginning and I remember watching that road streak come to an end in ORL, and it was glorious. So exactly how long do we do we need to continue to be patient? A rebuild shouldn't take 6 years. I am done waiting for this franchise to get it's act together. I almost wish we never tasted success so that I could have just continued to wallow in crap and never known what it was like to experience winning. And as far as the thread title, Tyreke HAS regressed. He has not improved his game one iota. But I guess we need more patience.

 

[The_Jamal]

The team has added more and more shooters since getting Reke. This has not helped Reke. Why? He doesn't get them the ball in time. I've never seen a guard throw so many sputtering kickout passes. The two converted kickouts versus NY were because the passes were on target and on time. Most of Reke's kickouts are not.

funny. I could have sworn we're the worst shooting team in basketball and bottom 5 3pt shooting team in basketball. But you're right, it's Reke's fault we can't make wide open shots

 

[Glenn]

I have been around since the beginning and I remember watching that road streak come to an end in ORL, and it was glorious. So exactly how long do we do we need to continue to be patient? A rebuild shouldn't take 6 years. I am done waiting for this franchise to get it's act together. I almost wish we never tasted success so that I could have just continued to wallow in crap and never known what it was like to experience winning. And as far as the thread title, Tyreke HAS regressed. He has not improved his game one iota. But I guess we need more patience.

Ha! Ha! I understand. The rebuild started with Tyreke as we wasted a few years. Can't be impatient and do something stupid like trade Tyreke or Cousins. These guys are our future. Anybody else is free game.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Ha! Ha! I understand. The rebuild started with Tyreke as we wasted a few years. Can't be impatient and do something stupid like trade Tyreke or Cousins. These guys are our future. Anybody else is free game.

I agree. I certainly don't want to trade Tyreke, but at the same time I want a team that can at least play. 500 ball and not embarrass themselves on a nightly basis. This is ridiculous and I've just about had it.

 

[Glenn]

I agree. I certainly don't want to trade Tyreke, but at the same time I want a team that can at least play. 500 ball and not embarrass themselves on a nightly basis. This is ridiculous and I've just about had it.

I actually took off a few years from watching them but that was befiore we had Tyreke. Therefore it seems less painful and when I watch games I watch for little victories like Cousins' play, IT, and my continued hope for Jimmer. You don't have to pay attention to the rest although .... it's kind of impossible. Do you have any guns or sharp implements around your residence? I know a retired psychiatrist who might muster the energy to care especially with someone who is putting up with the Kings. The early years were far worse. We set some records for futility that the younger people might not believe. It's somewhat of a test of endurance.

 

[Tetsujin]

I actually took off a few years from watching them but that was befiore we had Tyreke. Therefore it seems less painful and when I watch games I watch for little victories like Cousins' play, IT, and my continued hope for Jimmer. You don't have to pay attention to the rest although .... it's kind of impossible. Do you have any guns or sharp implements around your residence? I know a retired psychiatrist who might muster the energy to care especially with someone who is putting up with the Kings. The early years were far worse. We set some records for futility that the younger people might not believe. It's somewhat of a test of endurance.

Nothing says futility like Joe Klein. And honestly though we still have strings of bad luck and pure bad mojo as a team, nothing will ever match the dark days of Bobby Hurley's car crash and the tragic Ricky Berry episode. So keep your heads up, Kings fans. It's always darkest before the dawn. Sometimes it just takes a while for the sun to rise.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

funny. I could have sworn we're the worst shooting team in basketball and bottom 5 3pt shooting team in basketball. But you're right, it's Reke's fault we can't make wide open shots

I think they're saying part of the reason why they're shooting so bad is they aren't getting the ball in the right spots or at the right time. I'm not convinced that's the whole problem but it could be part of it. It is pretty strange how guys like Salmons, Garcia, and Outlaw who have been pretty good 3 point shooters over their careers suddenly can't hit water from a boat. if it was just one of them struggling you could write it off as a fluke but when it's all of them you have to at least look at the team offense and that starts with the guy who supposed to be running it...

 

[Hoovtrain]

Nothing says futility like Joe Klein. And honestly though we still have strings of bad luck and pure bad mojo as a team, nothing will ever match the dark days of Bobby Hurley's car crash and the tragic Ricky Berry episode. So keep your heads up, Kings fans. It's always darkest before the dawn. Sometimes it just takes a while for the sun to rise.

Its funny, I actually had a lot more patience during the dark days. I mean those teams were horrendous, but I didn't get nearly as irritated as I do now. Oh well, only about 6 more months till football.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think they're saying part of the reason why they're shooting so bad is they aren't getting the ball in the right spots or at the right time. I'm not convinced that's the whole problem but it could be part of it. It is pretty strange how guys like Salmons, Garcia, and Outlaw who have been pretty good 3 point shooters over their careers suddenly can't hit water from a boat. if it was just one of them struggling you could write it off as a fluke but when it's all of them you have to at least look at the team offense and that starts with the guy who supposed to be running it...

Load of horse manure when it comes ot Cisco or Salmons. I've watched every game. Salmons misses EVERYTHING, off his own bounce, on called plays, or on the catch in the corner. Plenty of agendas in this thread want to throw it all on Reke's feet, but aside from Reke not having the personality just to chuck John out of the airplane on the way to Detroit there's not much he can do about a guy being done.

And Cisco hit these same threes, from this same PG, just last season. Now he airballs them.

Outlaw is just a mess. He fell apart last year and looks just gone this year. He refuses to even shoot off the catch, so he makes whoever is pasing the ball to him irrelevant anyway. nad he's rarely been out there with Tyreke. More often its Thomas or Jimmer having to try to get him going.

Oddly Donte does not seem to struggle with Reke's passes, and many of the few shots Jimmer has hit have been threes off the catch from Reke.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I actually took off a few years from watching them but that was befiore we had Tyreke. Therefore it seems less painful and when I watch games I watch for little victories like Cousins' play, IT, and my continued hope for Jimmer. You don't have to pay attention to the rest although .... it's kind of impossible. Do you have any guns or sharp implements around your residence? I know a retired psychiatrist who might muster the energy to care especially with someone who is putting up with the Kings. The early years were far worse. We set some records for futility that the younger people might not believe. It's somewhat of a test of endurance.

Trust me, I understand it was worse. Ive watched them all. I'm just b*tching about the present. And yes I also watch fir the small things, but that can only get you pumped up for so long. Really that is the only reason I watch right now.
Your friend better be one hell of a psychiatrist

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Obvious agenda thread. I hate fans passing off their distaste for a certain players' style as "analysis" when its OBVIOUS that the team's problems lie elsewhere. Lets just call it what it is: People wanted Rubio and his "exciting" style of play. Reke's style, devastating and punishing as it is, is "boring".

So now Reke is responsible for John Salmons' shooting woes? He's responsible for Garcia airballing open threes and in general looking like he's aged a century? He's responsible for Hickson's stone hands? He's responsible for Outlaw being Outlaw? I don't see exactly how much more its possible for Reke to spoonfeed these scrubs before they look like NBA players.

Half of the team's supporting cast is crumbling, and its Reke's fault? What about the other guys who are flourishing with Reke, like, I dunno, Demarcus Cousins? Isaiah Thomas? Jason Thompson? Hell, even after a crappy start, Jimmer, Thornton and Donte have begun to turn it up. Thats exactly 7 players playing like they're worthy of being on an NBA roster, and the latter three have only recently began to emerge. This is Reke's fault?

 

[Glenn]

Trust me, I understand it was worse. Ive watched them all. I'm just b*tching about the present. And yes I also watch fir the small things, but that can only get you pumped up for so long. Really that is the only reason I watch right now.
Your friend better be one hell of a psychiatrist

Can't give references but he knows basketball. I'll let someone else apply the punchline if they wish.

 

[IfAt1st]

Lets just face the facts here:

-Tyreke is the worst passer of all time and is literally making 7 players worse with his presence

-Tyreke is a bust because he doesn't average a triple double on one of the worst teams in basketball. He's clearly not NBA star material because all players are finished products by age 22.

Do you guys REALLY think that ridiculously exaggerating points in a discussion help elevate the thread?

It's known as a lazy, digressing aspect of persuasive discussion and it's embarrassing.
Please stop.