Trading up in the draft

[bajaden]

I think the only way I would consider doing the deal is if we were able to keep the 5th pick and they were willing to take Nocioni. Noc's contract runs almost as long as Brand's. The only difference being that the last year is a team option on Noc's and a player option on Brand's. So in a sense our salary base would only be going up $9,109,000.00 instead of $15,959,100.00. Still a chunk of change, but it would be a bold move to get either Turner or Cousins at 2 and Then maybe Aminu or Johnson at 5.

As much as I love Turner, I think I would lean toward taking Cousins. We need legitimate size and I think he's going to be very good. And being the malicious bastard that I'am. After doing the trade with the 76ers I would get on the phone with the Timberwolves and tell them were considering taking either Cousins or Turner, and right now were leaning hard toward Turner. However if their willing to give up the 16th pick in the draft and swap the 4th pick for the 2nd pick, we'd be willing to do it.

I know for a fact that they were shattered by not being able to draft Turner. So I think its something they would consider. That way we would still get Cousins at four, because the Nets will take Favors and now we also have the 16th pick in the draft. At 16 you just take the BPA. Could be Xavior Henry, or James Anderson. Perhaps even Whiteside. In one fell swoop we would have a young talented core, and one old guy, who by the way might be able to teach a trick or two to the young guys.

This is all a pipe dream of course, but its fun to think about. And strangely enough, its all doable. Our cap room would be mostly gone, but the team would mostly set at just about every position and would have young movable pieces if needed.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, that team was basically a disaster. A coach that failed to utilize the players he had (basically because he's a one-trick pony), a mismatch of players and some real chemistry issues. I think Brand actually came into the season looking healthy, slimmed down and he played all but a handful of games. He's on the downside of his career but I think he can still play 30+ minutes of valuable basketball. He's just expensive.

It would all depend on how well he's recovered from his injury. He's only 31 years old. He's not going to run the floor like he used to. But he could still be a solid contributer. An overpaid one perhaps.

 

[Bricklayer]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66717/20100521/sixers_willing_to_trade_2nd_pick_with_brand/

Would you take on Elton Brand in a pick swap just to get Evan Turner?

That report says nothing about a pick swap. And no, I wouldn't do a pick swap and take back that awful contract. But if the report is accurate, and they are willing to just flat deal that pick to shed that contract...man, you have to consider that. Our young core, and you add TWO Top 5 picks? This is basically one of the other uses of caproom if you do not think you can realistically nab a top free agent. Use it to absorb a bad deal instead in exchange for goodies. And a #2 pick is a real goodie.

 

[Bricklayer]

Our cap room would be mostly gone, but the team would mostly set at just about every position and would have young movable pieces if needed.

Yikes. I mostly agree with you, but please don't use that term around here.

 

[sdballer]

I think the only way I would consider doing the deal is if we were able to keep the 5th pick and they were willing to take Nocioni. Noc's contract runs almost as long as Brand's. The only difference being that the last year is a team option on Noc's and a player option on Brand's. So in a sense our salary base would only be going up $9,109,000.00 instead of $15,959,100.00. Still a chunk of change, but it would be a bold move to get either Turner or Cousins at 2 and Then maybe Aminu or Johnson at 5.

As much as I love Turner, I think I would lean toward taking Cousins. We need legitimate size and I think he's going to be very good. And being the malicious bastard that I'am. After doing the trade with the 76ers I would get on the phone with the Timberwolves and tell them were considering taking either Cousins or Turner, and right now were leaning hard toward Turner. However if their willing to give up the 16th pick in the draft and swap the 4th pick for the 2nd pick, we'd be willing to do it.

I know for a fact that they were shattered by not being able to draft Turner. So I think its something they would consider. That way we would still get Cousins at four, because the Nets will take Favors and now we also have the 16th pick in the draft. At 16 you just take the BPA. Could be Xavior Henry, or James Anderson. Perhaps even Whiteside. In one fell swoop we would have a young talented core, and one old guy, who by the way might be able to teach a trick or two to the young guys.

This is all a pipe dream of course, but its fun to think about. And strangely enough, its all doable. Our cap room would be mostly gone, but the team would mostly set at just about every position and would have young movable pieces if needed.

So under this dream scenario, we'd end up with the 4, the 5, the 16 and Brand for Nocioni (and sacrificed cap space)? Not sure the sixers would bite but talk about a rebuild for us. I'd even be willing to throw in a protected pick in the future.

 

[Megalodon]

Wow I think this would be a very good move! Could you imagine the possibility of coming out of the draft with Turner AND Cousins?

 

[bajaden]

Yikes. I mostly agree with you, but please don't use that term around here.

Sorry, bite my tounge!...

 

[upinsmoke]

Trade Landy??? You gotta be kidding right fellas. The team finally adds a proven post player and 1/2 a season later you want to trade him

 

[sdballer]

Trade Landy??? You gotta be kidding right fellas. The team finally adds a proven post player and 1/2 a season later you want to trade him

What are you referring to?

 

[sc3252]

I just did the math and we would be a little over 55 million dollars if we did this with no players going back to them, I think it might be best to send one player just to give us some relief. Also we won't have to worry about CBA cap unless its well below 55 million because we will still be in an area where Tyreke is on a team option(ends with brands contract) for the cheap and we still have the option to drop Spencer and Landry(may have to, to much money by extension time) if needed. Of course this is just for next year, Brand's contract goes up like a million a year, and every other player on the roster also increases, so I would put at least 1-1.7(some contracts go down) million added per year.

 

[upinsmoke]

What are you referring to?

The second sentence in the thread.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I was going to give this Brand thing a new thread, but i'll just comment here.

I love this kind of a move. Its agressive.

Its a number 2 pick. Thats the highest this rebuild has seen. You have the chance to add a young player like Evan Turner or John Wall, in addition to whoever we get at 5. Its the perfect use of our capspace at this stage.

 

[sdballer]

The second sentence in the thread.

Got it. Sorry I started on the second page.

 

[hrdboild]

Trade Landy??? You gotta be kidding right fellas. The team finally adds a proven post player and 1/2 a season later you want to trade him

It's all about building a future core. I've admired Landry's play from afar the past two years he was in Houston and I was thrilled when we got him, but he's only signed for one more season so he's not necessarily a piece to build around. He might get expensive very soon and given his limitations, it might not even be in our best interest to re-sign him next year. He is a valuable basketball asset though, so if you can use him in a trade to add a key young player through the draft I think you have to do it. Naturally I would rather we try to trade Nocioni or Garcia first to save ourselves some cash. Possibly Udrih as well if Philly is still desperate for another point guard. There's a hierarchy to these kinds of decisions, but if a #2 pick is on the line I don't think Landry should be made untouchable.

 

[sc3252]

It's all about building a future core. I've admired Landry's play from afar the past two years he was in Houston and I was thrilled when we got him, but he's only signed for one more season so he's not necessarily a piece to build around. He might get expensive very soon and given his limitations, it might not even be in our best interest to re-sign him next year. He is a valuable basketball asset though, so if you can use him in a trade to add a key young player through the draft I think you have to do it. Naturally I would rather we try to trade Nocioni or Garcia first to save ourselves some cash. Possibly Udrih as well if Philly is still desperate for another point guard. There's a hierarchy to these kinds of decisions, but if a #2 pick is on the line I don't think Landry should be made untouchable.

Exactly, I think we should offer them Landry if needed. Even if we can do the trade straight up, we will still lose Landry to free agency because he will command 8-10 million anyways. Not only that, if we can do this trade Brands contract will be up the same season that Evans needs a new contract so it will work out perfectly. Of course this is only if its not for a swap of picks + Brand, that is just bad for us, we won't have another young player and we will be held down by his contract like they are.

 

[sc3252]

Curious, would we hear about a trade like this before the draft or would we be surprised on draft day?

 

[Gary]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66717/20100521/sixers_willing_to_trade_2nd_pick_with_brand/

Would you take on Elton Brand in a pick swap just to get Evan Turner?

From what I read they will just give the 2nd pick as long as they can rid themselves of Brand.. If we had their pick, and ours we could get the big, and make some of you Johnson ppl happy!

 

[cwebb2002]

If the Kings wanted to trade up, going for cousins wouldnt be where I would go. I think trading up, you would want to go for the 2nd pick and evan turner by sending a combo Hawes/Garcia/Nocioni, and 5th pick to Philadelphia (if they insist, I'd send JT instead of Hawes) for Dalembert/ W.Green or Speights, and 2nd pick. Kings will get a player who complements Tyreke well on the perimeter, and get a good, albeit overpaid (for 1yr only) shot blocker, and either a servicable backup SG or a PF/C with potential. Philly would rid themselves of dalemberts crappy contract, and pick up a much more reasonably paid center (Hawes or JT) and 2 solid perimeter pieces, as well as a high enough draft pick to get their bigman of the future (which is sorely needed now in Philly).

I am comfortable with Landry in the 4 spot as the PF for the immediate future. Being a frequent Rockets watcher as well, I know that this guy is incredibly efficient and putting a potent lineup on the perimeter will prevent doubles on the guy. He put up 18/6 on 52%FG in 28 games for Sac, is among the league leaders in 4th quarter efficiency, and has a solid midrange game. I wouldnt be quick to pass on him or try to trade him. You know what you get in him...a draft player could bust. Keep him and Evans as a nucleus for the future plans (along with E.Turner I hope).

Next utilize that 20million in cap space during the offseason. I would target a few players that may not necessarily strike peoples fancy but would be good additions.

I would go get (in no particular order):

1. matt barnes (brings length and tough defense on the perimeter, and is capable of hitting a spot up jumper) (give the guy 3-5million...much better than the 1.6 he's due to make if he exercises his option). He would get a lot of open looks at the basket with evans and turner penetrating and kicking out. He also is a former kings player and is familiar with them.

2. Brendan Haywood: Good rebounder and shot blocker. Will guard the paint well and could benefit from open looks due to drives by turner and evans. (currently making $6million. due to have a pay cut in all likelyhood...but probably could be had by Kings for $5million)

3. After paying the draftee (~$3mill/yr initially) that leaves 7-9 million, plus the MLE of $5 Allowing Sac to go after Rudy Gay who I would give 8-10million (a 6'10'' 240lbs, 20/6/2/1.5/46%FG player at SF (even with Z.Randolph and Mayo on his team) who plays good defense).

Lineup would look like this:
PG: Evans/Udrih
SG: Turner/ W. Green (potentially)/Casspi (who can play the 2/3/4)
SF: Gay/Barnes/ Donte Greene (who can play 3/4)
PF: Landry/Speights (potentially)/ JT or Hawes (I think both players' playing styles are closer to PF than C)
C: Haywood/Dalembert/JT or Hawes

This line up has multiple players that play multiple positions well
Evans (PG/SG)
Turner (PG/SG/SF)
Gay (SG/SF)
Casspi (SG/SF)
D. Greene (SF/PF)
JT/Hawes (PF/C)

All the starting perimeter players are solid defenders, can handle the ball, and are big athletic players, with a good touch and all are likely to be able to score 20pts on a given night. Add that to 15-20 you'd get from landry a night, not to mention solid defense in the paint from him, haywood, and dalembert and good offensive production from the bench and you would have a very solid, very young team that is extremely versatile moving forward. This is the trailblazers of last year, but with much more potential. And, none of the salaries would be unreasonable. This is a team that as it matures, could potentially contend for titles in 2-3seasons (as it matures and gains experience...not necessarily short on skill). IT would have at least 2-3 favorable matchups at 2-3 positions. against almost every team.

 

[sc3252]

From what I read they will just give the 2nd pick as long as they can rid themselves of Brand.. If we had their pick, and ours we could get the big, and make some of you Johnson ppl happy!

I hate to start planning our second pick, but... I think I would rather have Turner and hope cousins drops to 5.

Edit: I don't know if you are aloud to do this, but if we are going to pick cousins or favors with the hypothetical #2(obviously the cats not in the bag) could we trade down that number 2 to say 3 and get a little more value. I remember reading that the Nets were really bummed about missing #2 and they might be willing to part with something.

 

[sc3252]

If the Kings wanted to trade up, going for cousins wouldnt be where I would go. I think trading up, you would want to go for the 2nd pick and evan turner by sending a combo Hawes/Garcia/Nocioni, and 5th pick to Philadelphia (if they insist, I'd send JT instead of Hawes) for Dalembert/ W.Green or Speights, and 2nd pick. Kings will get a player who complements Tyreke well on the perimeter, and get a good, albeit overpaid (for 1yr only) shot blocker, and either a servicable backup SG or a PF/C with potential. Philly would rid themselves of dalemberts crappy contract, and pick up a much more reasonably paid center (Hawes or JT) and 2 solid perimeter pieces, as well as a high enough draft pick to get their bigman of the future (which is sorely needed now in Philly).

They would so not do this. They would not want anything to do with Nocioni or Garcia, Hawes might interest them although not much(maybe JT would). If they are interested in doing a trade for the #2 I would think they would want to replace Brand with a cheap player like Landry and keep some of their other pieces that are expiring like Dalembert who might get them quite a bit better value then we can offer and then in the off season make a play for some of the free agents with their cap space. That is of course if they even want to deal the second pick.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Curious, would we hear about a trade like this before the draft or would we be surprised on draft day?

Actually, this trade would not be able to be done until after the draft. We don't have any cap space to absorb Brand's contract right now. That will change on July 1st, but until then we could only agree to the deal, not actually do it. It's possible that an agreed deal could be announced earlier, just so everybody knew it was going down, but it's hard to say.

 

[Kings Fan Gerard]

I'd be down with a trade with Philly as long as:

1. We don't have to swap picks and we end up with the number 2 and 5 picks
2. We don't give up JT, Casspi, and Greene. I'd rather give Philly Landry. He's a good player and a perfect 6th man but he'd probably want more money when his contract expires...and the way he's played, he deserves it.

 

[Uncia03]

First of all, if Philly is actually open to trading the #2 pick to a team to absorb Brand's contract, you have to jump on that immediately.

As must as I'd like to include Nocioni, Udrih, or Garcia in the deal, I don't think you talk about them in the preliminary discussions.

The reason being, that there are so many teams with cap space this season who could potentially absorb that contract. In particular, I could easily see Prokhorov making a big splash by absorbing Brand's contract to get the #2 and #3 picks in the draft. With all his proclamations about how he's going to build a championship team with-in 5 years, and with money not being an issue, I would be surprised to not see him make this sort of deal.
So if you're Philly, do you trade your #2 pick to an Eastern Conference team that would absorb all of Brand's salary, or trade it to a Western Conference team that wants you to also absorb 5-7 million from a contract like Garcia or Nocioni?
I think that they'd rather have the salary space.

Now, if they are interested in some of our players (Garcia, Udrih, Nocioni, Hawes) then by all means include them in the trade if that is what it takes, but I wouldn't let that be a sticking point.

I would want the Kings to jump on that sort of deal, and show the Nets immediate interest so that they could be taken seriously in any sort of negotiations. I'd hate to lose out on an opportunity because we wanted to play hard-ball or do too much to conceal our hand.

If something like this goes down, you then have to decide who you're going to draft at #2.

The question then becomes:
Which combination is the best and worst for this team.

Turner/Cousins
Turner/Johnson
Cousins/Johnson

The best combination in my opinion is the first, but that is also the riskiest, if Minnesota selects Cousins.
If Minnesota doesn't select Cousins then either of the latter two options would be what we'd wind up with.

Cousins/Johnson would be a great combination if we didn't already have Greene and Casspi. Turner and Cousins would basically solidify our team perfectly.

Everyone talks about how Minnesota will be willing to draft Cousins even though they have Jefferson/Love, because they drafted so many point guards last year. The issue is that the consensus is that Minnesota had a horrible draft and made huge mistakes last year. I think that fact might help Cousins slide, and see Johnson be selected by Minnesota.

Or maybe you work up some sort of deal with Minnesota, to move from the 5th spot to the 4th spot.

Brand's deal is huge, but his game would probably work well with our King's team. So you add what should be a quality PF, and then get your Center and SG of the future to add to your star PG. Play them together, watch Greene and Casspi grow, and look forward to being in the playoffs for a long time.

I wouldn't hesitate at all on this, even though it kills our capspace.

 

[sc3252]

Turner/Cousins
Turner/Johnson
Cousins/Johnson

I choose number #1, then draft Aminu if Cousins isn't available, best thing about doing that is Aminu can develop while holding onto Greene and Casspi. After he becomes good enough in a year or two trade Casspi or Greene.

I agree don't low ball, if they want more value add in Landry, but not right away since they may ask for more. Obviously don't try to add in Nocioni, that could backfire.

Edit:

I wouldn't hesitate at all on this, even though it kills our capspace.

Who could we even get?

 

[Kings Fan Gerard]

If this trade goes down and we somehow get number 2 and 5, what do you guys think of taking Favors at number 2?

 

[sc3252]

If this trade goes down and we somehow get number 2 and 5, what do you guys think of taking Favors at number 2?

Who ever is better, I am just worried he will become Tyrus Thomas that is why I am leaning towards Turner If we can get the second pick. I also read his hands are kinda small, so he might lose the ball a lot. I am not sure what the width of normal power forward hands should, but he was listed on the lowside of what other players had 9.25". Can anyone answer if that is small?

 

[sterö]

If this trade goes down and we somehow get number 2 and 5, what do you guys think of taking Favors at number 2?

I´d definitely take Wall or Turner with #2

 

[JB_kings]

If this trade goes down and we somehow get number 2 and 5, what do you guys think of taking Favors at number 2?

Hmm... visions of Favors and Cousins (if he slips to #5) as the new revamped frontcourt? Lots of rebounding, beef, inside scoring and above the rim play. I would take that.

 

[cwebb2002]

If trading picks means taking brand, I may still be down with that. He would be the most expensive backup PF in the league, but that wouldnt hurt the kings all that much if the trade was done right and the correct players were on the roster, only because the kings could put forth a very young and talented team that they probably wouldnt have to fiddle with for a few years. By the time they have to adjust pieces, Brands contract will be on the verge of expiring and could be traded for immediate cap relief and would be a good long term asset to have if the team around it were young and talented.

He is due to make $15.95M next year. Giving up Hawes would be preferable, but if you have to give JT, I'd do it to get the 2nd pick. The thing is that their major goal is to get rid of his contract...and for the kings Tyreke and landry are likely the only 2 untouchables. IF that is the case then there are really only a combination of 5 players (total of 3 being sent) whose contracts would work in order to send them to get Brands contract back. Nocioni ($6.85M), Udrih ($6.6M), Cisco ($5.5M), Hawes ($2.97M), and JT ($2.17M).
1. Nocioni, Cisco, Hawes= $15.32M
2. Nocioni, Udrih, JT= $15.62M
3. Nocioni, Udrih, Hawes= $16.42M
I'd Prefer Option 1 and I think that Philly would to. It gives them a backup for Iggy (Cisco) and a better SF than Kapono (Nocioni) and a PF/C that is far cheaper and just as productive as Brand and is younger and can slide to center and be just as productive as Dalembert for only ~$3M. He's as good as either of them and has far less $$$ owed. I think that he plays more of a PF style rather than banging like a C so he could complement Dalembert well. Plus, I doubt they want Udrih as they already have 2 good PG in Holiday and Louis Williams.

For the kings, again they get the 2nd pick and get Turner...I think they would have to give up the 5th Pick without a doubt, but I think it would be worth it to get a talent like Turner, especially considering that the Kings will still have $20M under the cap to spend AND a $5.8M MLE. Again, Go get Haywood ($5M), Barnes ($3-5M), but Most Importantly, Kings should make a strong push at Rudy Gay. You cant get a better SF for the $$$ today. Great scoring ability from the perimeter or the drive, good defender, and handles the ball well. I would say he is more productive than Iggy or Granger, both of whom make much more than Gay. The Grizz have a qualifiying offer of $4.4M available to them, but I would advise the Kings to push the offer to $10-$12M (higher than I initially said) because this guy would be killer next to Tyreke, and the lineup would be insane with Tyreke, Turner, Gay. This would be the future big 3 of the NBA. Being backed by Landry and a guy like Haywood anchoring the D in the Paint (averaging over 2 blocks/game over the last 2 seasons, with his rebounding ability and ability to finish at the rim, he'd be great to have).
PG: Evans/Udrih
SG: Turner/Casspi
SF: Gay/Barnes/Greene
PF: Landry/Brand
C: Haywood/JT

The team would be right at the cap ~$50-52M, and would be loaded for the future with great young talent from the starters to the bench. This team would not have too much trouble scoring w/3 playmakers at the perimeter and a PF with good offensive ability. They would be very good perimeter defenders and a solid defensive C to control the paint. They would give alot of team fits.

In the end, more important than trading for the number 2 pick, I think that it would be more prudent to get a proven scorer and defender in Gay. I truly think his talent would be very well utilized on the Kings team and that he is a perfect fit next to Tyreke. If the 76ers wont trade for those Kings players that make the salary game worth it for the Kings, I say draft the best big w/5th Pick and get Gay.

 

[bajaden]

Exactly, I think we should offer them Landry if needed. Even if we can do the trade straight up, we will still lose Landry to free agency because he will command 8-10 million anyways. Not only that, if we can do this trade Brands contract will be up the same season that Evans needs a new contract so it will work out perfectly. Of course this is only if its not for a swap of picks + Brand, that is just bad for us, we won't have another young player and we will be held down by his contract like they are.

If I understand this correctly, the 76ers are just looking to unload Brands salary. Now if they're desperate enough, then they might take back Nocioni's salary. They still save themselves 9 mil the first year. Which we absorb. Now I think thats a good deal for them if their serious. I doubt too many teams are going to beat their door down to take on Brand's salary. Using Landry instead, puts us at absorbing and additional 3.8 mil the first year and a total of 16 mil the second year, since you wouldn't have Nocioni's salary offseting Brands salary. Throwing in Landry along with Nocioni makes no sense for either team. We would be loosing the services of a player we'll probably need, and the 76ers would be taking on more salary the first year, defeating the entire purpose of the deal.