Trade Suggestion: Fox for Simmons + #28

joemama said:
Why are so many convinced Ben Simmons will actual help this team priduce wins?

I'm not sure he is 100% mentally.
He is a major distraction and constant drama.
He can't shoot.
Doesn't fit on the roster, especially after trading a shooter or two.
He has an albatross contract.
We have ball handlers already.
Etc.

Too many unknowns to be throwing in FR pick or picks especially when we actually started drafting well.
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I think the biggest concern has to be where he's at mentally. Dude caught a bad case of the yips in the playoffs and it remains to be seen whether or not that'll carry over into this season. Add to that a supposedly bad work ethic we don't want rubbing off on our youngsters *and* his supposed unwillingness to play anything other than point, and I can see why Monte would balk at bringing Ben to Sac, especially at the high price the sixers want.

For the right price you gotta roll the dice with someone as talented as he is but I think that right price is a pretty low one. In my opinion there's at least a fair chance he'd come over and do more harm than good.
 
Das_Boot said:
I think the biggest concern has to be where he's at mentally. Dude caught a bad case of the yips in the playoffs and it remains to be seen whether or not that'll carry over into this season. Add to that a supposedly bad work ethic we don't want rubbing off on our youngsters *and* his supposed unwillingness to play anything other than point, and I can see why Monte would balk at bringing Ben to Sac, especially at the high price the sixers want.

For the right price you gotta roll the dice with someone as talented as he is but I think that right price is a pretty low one. In my opinion there's at least a fair chance he'd come over and do more harm than good.
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huh?

2x 1st team All-Defense
3x All-star
Been to 3 playoffs

by age 24 is a player without a work ethic? How does that make sense?
 
The_Jamal said:
huh?

2x 1st team All-Defense
3x All-star
Been to 3 playoffs

by age 24 is a player without a work ethic? How does that make sense?
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All he has to do is say he loves Sac and fans would crown him the next GOAT. That's the only Kings fan acceptance criteria that matters.
 
Top 5 seasons finishing at the rim over the last 5 years based on overall rim finishing grade:

Zion Williamson 2020-21 (100.0)
Giannis Antetokounmpo 2018-19 (100.0)
LeBron James 2017-18 (99.9)
Giannis Antetokounmpo 2020-21 (99.9)
De’Aaron Fox 2020-21 (99.9)

THaNk GOodNEsS FoX LOvEs sAcRaMeNtO so wE cAn LIkE HIm.
 
Telemachus said:
Here's an interesting take on Ben Simmons.
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It definitely is an interesting take, to talk that much trash about your own player and then insist that you won't trade him for a "discount". Simmons is getting paid between $33-40M a year over the next four years, but having him on the court is like playing 4-on-5, but we won't trade him to you unless we get assets equivalent to what we're paying him (as opposed to assets equivalent to what he's worth). Oh, also, the Sixers have the leverage because they're paying him all that money to not play. Very interesting take, that's for sure.

It's looking to me like Simmons is going nowhere. Sixers want all-star value for a 4-on-5 player, but why would anybody give them that?

Now wait for Simmons to sit out, so that everybody who is at all tempted to trade for him has no memory of him doing anything except freezing up in the 4th quarter and whining and demanding a trade and refusing to play. I mean, that'll make his trade value skyrocket.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
It definitely is an interesting take, to talk that much trash about your own player and then insist that you won't trade him for a "discount". Simmons is getting paid between $33-40M a year over the next four years, but having him on the court is like playing 4-on-5, but we won't trade him to you unless we get assets equivalent to what we're paying him (as opposed to assets equivalent to what he's worth). Oh, also, the Sixers have the leverage because they're paying him all that money to not play. Very interesting take, that's for sure.

It's looking to me like Simmons is going nowhere. Sixers want all-star value for a 4-on-5 player, but why would anybody give them that?

Now wait for Simmons to sit out, so that everybody who is at all tempted to trade for him has no memory of him doing anything except freezing up in the 4th quarter and whining and demanding a trade and refusing to play. I mean, that'll make his trade value skyrocket.
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Yea I mean, I think at a certain point it's diminishing returns. Have to think they'll pull a trigger soon probably just didn't want to get super lowballed which is the right move.

That was probably the plan with the "we will only trade Ben for 6 all stars" talk. Definitely exaggerate but for the purpose of not getting lowballs.

I feel there may be a move soon
 
Capt. Factorial said:
It definitely is an interesting take, to talk that much trash about your own player and then insist that you won't trade him for a "discount". Simmons is getting paid between $33-40M a year over the next four years, but having him on the court is like playing 4-on-5, but we won't trade him to you unless we get assets equivalent to what we're paying him (as opposed to assets equivalent to what he's worth). Oh, also, the Sixers have the leverage because they're paying him all that money to not play. Very interesting take, that's for sure.

It's looking to me like Simmons is going nowhere. Sixers want all-star value for a 4-on-5 player, but why would anybody give them that?

Now wait for Simmons to sit out, so that everybody who is at all tempted to trade for him has no memory of him doing anything except freezing up in the 4th quarter and whining and demanding a trade and refusing to play. I mean, that'll make his trade value skyrocket.
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Philly has handled the Ben Simmons situation about as poorly as can be. And as soon as you think maybe they’ve wised up — it gets worse.

Morey‘s reputation continues to take hits by the day. At this point a hail mary desperation move from another team is about the only saving grace Philly’s got.
 
I've seen some suggest that once he agrees to suit up in the regular season folks will forget all about how the fact that he plays great in the regular season and disappears in the playoffs. I ... ? I feel like the only way his value ever recovers is if he shows up in the 2022 playoffs.
 
miltonap said:
Yea I mean, I think at a certain point it's diminishing returns. Have to think they'll pull a trigger soon probably just didn't want to get super lowballed which is the right move.

That was probably the plan with the "we will only trade Ben for 6 all stars" talk. Definitely exaggerate but for the purpose of not getting lowballs.

I feel there may be a move soon
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Absent an unexpectedly significant offer, I think the opposite: More pretty much haas to keep him now and hope his regular season play displaces much of the ugliness that attaches to Simmons' image right now. Simmons can't really answer fears about his playoff performance til the next time he plays in one, but if he can make nice w/Embiid and Rivers, put up his usual regular season numbers, maybe show a bit of a jumper and a little improvement at the FT line, he can revive his trade market some.

Course, there's a lot of risk there for the Sixers, too - that BS has an extended holdout, that the playoffs aftereffects linger well into the season, that he looks/plays worse...
 
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pdxKingsFan said:
I've seen some suggest that once he agrees to suit up in the regular season folks will forget all about how the fact that he plays great in the regular season and disappears in the playoffs. I ... ? I feel like the only way his value ever recovers is if he shows up in the 2022 playoffs.
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He'd be perfect for us then! We're never in the playoffs anyways!
 
Assuming things stay as they are, will be fascinating to see where the players' values are by this time next year.

Specifically: Fox, Hali, Simmons, and Mitchell.
 
Jkbiker said:
John Wall trade options: Three potential destinations for the former five-time All-Star (msn.com)

Sixers, Kings
  • Philadelphia receives: John Wall, first-round pick from Houston, first-round pick from Sacramento
  • Houston receives: Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley III
  • Sacramento receives: Ben Simmons, filler salary from Sixers to make the money work
A straight swap between the Sixers and Rockets feels unlikely for a few reasons, namely the Rockets could have had Ben Simmons last year in the James Harden deal if they really wanted him. Still, with Simmons trying to force his way out of Philadelphia, you have to at least include the Sixers in the conversation here. To do that, what about a potential three-team trade involving the Sacramento Kings -- a team that has been in the mix regarding Simmons?

Of course, this all hinges on the Sixers actually wanting Wall, and it's not clear if they do. Or if they'd be willing to take that sort of return for Simmons. But with his trade value sinking by the day, and his threats of a holdout lingering over the team, the Sixers might have to take what they can get. If they do give up Simmons, however, they'd need other assets besides just Wall, perhaps first-round picks from each club.

The Kings' interest here is obvious. They could get an All-Star for two players they've been trying to trade for a while and a first-round pick. Even in a tough Western Conference, Simmons' arrival would give them a chance to make the playoffs for the first time since 2006.

As for the Rockets, Hield and Bagley would be a solid return for Wall. Hield is a player many contenders would want, and could be easily flipped for more assets to continue the rebuild. Bagley, meanwhile, fits their timeline and still has a lot of talent even if he hasn't lived up to his potential.


philly- i really doubt it they would be taking on too much salary
Kings - hell yeah
Houston - Why not?
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Wall is better than any player linked to Sixers except maybe McCollum. If he has more in the tank to give than expected (20pts 7 assists per game is a good start) then hes at least a very good player and Houston gets two 1st round picks which gives them a shot to acquire other talent. That's not a bad return, and much better given the other known offers. If Wall is even 3/4 of his old self then it's a win for the sixers who have backed themselves into a corner.
 
AMR42700 said:
Wall is better than any player linked to Sixers except maybe McCollum. If he has more in the tank to give than expected (20pts 7 assists per game is a good start) then hes at least a very good player and Houston gets two 1st round picks which gives them a shot to acquire other talent. That's not a bad return, and much better given the other known offers. If Wall is even 3/4 of his old self then it's a win for the sixers who have backed themselves into a corner.
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Wall looked great last year and will be that much further removed from the achilles injury. Wall plus two firsts, one of them Houston's, would be a fine return for Philly IMO, depending in part of what their "salary filler" looks like.

Houston's the one most likely to grump, I imagine. Wall and a 1st for Buddy and Bags? At 30, Wall obv. isn't on the Green/Sengun/Garuba timeline, but neither is Buddy. Depends on how they feel about Bags, I guess.
 
Woot! said:
Absent an unexpectedly significant offer, I think the opposite: More pretty much haas to keep him now and hope his regular season play displaces much of the ugliness that attaches to Simmons' image right now. Simmons can't really answer fears about his playoff performance til the next time he plays in one, but if he can make nice w/Embiid and Rivers, put up his usual regular season numbers, maybe show a bit of a jumper and a little improvement at the FT line, he can revive his trade market some.

Course, there's a lot of risk there for the Sixers, too - that BS has an extended holdout, that the playoffs aftereffects linger well into the season, that he looks/plays worse...
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But I don't think he's going to play. I don't think he's going to even report to training camp.
 
miltonap said:
But I don't think he's going to play. I don't think he's going to even report to training camp.
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Not reporting to training camp is one thing. Not playing once the regular season starts? For how long? It's not just Morey and Simmons playing some version of Chicken with each other. They're each also playing against GMs across the league - and GMs across the league are trying to gauge each other.

None of us has any idea who'll swerve first or what that might mean in terms of offers. Quite a few people seem to think the Sixers are being lowballed, that GMs are trying to take advantage of Simmons' artificially deflated value. Many of us, including me, think that Simmons is *actually* worth less than those in the first group believe. I'm not pulling for Monte to take advantage of the Sixers' bad spot. I'm hoping he doesn't overpay for a guy I wouldn't trade Fox for straight up for under most circumstances, his all-star credentials and youth notwithstanding.

Lots of risk and TONS of uncertainty all around, especially for Morey/the Sixers and Simmons and Rich Paul.
 
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Woot! said:
Wall looked great last year and will be that much further removed from the achilles injury. Wall plus two firsts, one of them Houston's, would be a fine return for Philly IMO, depending in part of what their "salary filler" looks like.

Houston's the one most likely to grump, I imagine. Wall and a 1st for Buddy and Bags? At 30, Wall obv. isn't on the Green/Sengun/Garuba timeline, but neither is Buddy. Depends on how they feel about Bags, I guess.
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If this trade was to happen, I would think it Sac sending two 1st out to Philadelphia. No reason for Houston to do anything other than get out of Wall’s contract helping Sac land Simmons.
 
jiimbob said:
If this trade was to happen, I would think it Sac sending two 1st out to Philadelphia. No reason for Houston to do anything other than get out of Wall’s contract helping Sac land Simmons.
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Players get traded along with 1st rd picks to clear their cap sheet all the time. Why wouldn't Houston send a 1st? Otherwise he is dead money not playing.
 
AMR42700 said:
Players get traded along with 1st rd picks to clear their cap sheet all the time. Why wouldn't Houston send a 1st? Otherwise he is dead money not playing.
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I’ve read somewhere Houston is unwilling to include 1st round picks in order to move Wall. That could all be positioning and not reality based.
My main thought, if Philadelphia was to accept Wall and two 1st for Simmons and Houston would be okay with Buddy and Bagley, then keep it simple and make it happen.
 
I know Ben Simmons is objectively a better player than D Fox (so far it’s not close). But I’m a believer in Fox. Listening to him yesterday and seeing him hulk up - I believe he will never stop working on his game. So I’m ride or die.

Still wishing we could get Simmons for Buddy, Barnes, 1sts and scraps - but that Fox and Haliburton back court needs to be off limits. If Fox steps up his shooting off the dribble and Haliburton learns how to get to the line - the sky is the limit.
 
SLAB said:
I imagine watching this play out is what it’s like for outsiders to watch anything play out for Sacramento. I love it. Lmao
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We just dumb bleeps of an organization, or so our reputation says and until proven otherwise...... Philly is supposed to be masters of "The Process" ...... I LOVE IT.
 
SLAB said:
I imagine watching this play out is what it’s like for outsiders to watch anything play out for Sacramento. I love it. Lmao
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it has been a little strange how we have had at least some better news where we aren’t getting kicked in the nuts all the time
 
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