Trade Martin? (split from game thread)
- Thread starter One B
- Start date
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Trade Martin for great center with good defensive skills and one more nice draft pick and that would be just fine basketball team!
Good night Sacramento from Slovenia
Alas there aren't many of those guys around, and the teams with them are none too eager to give them up. But its the right idea, just hard to figure out how to execute the plan.
Kevin Martin and Kenny Thomas for Brendan Haywood, Mike James, Deshawn Stevenson and a 1st?Alas there aren't many of those guys around, and the teams with them are none too eager to give them up. But its the right idea, just hard to figure out how to execute the plan.Trade Martin for great center with good defensive skills and one more nice draft pick and that would be just fine basketball team!
Good night Sacramento from Slovenia
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Slim...shame on you.
Unless you can figure a way to make that first a lottery pick of ocurse...
Gary
All-Star
Is it me or do Tyreke and Beno take turns taking the ball up the court.. At one point it was like 16 possessions in a row where they traded off.
That being said I think both Beno and Evans are thriving from this partnership.. They can both do their thing and they can both have a TON of weight off their shoulders.
What does this do to Martin?
That being said I think both Beno and Evans are thriving from this partnership.. They can both do their thing and they can both have a TON of weight off their shoulders.
What does this do to Martin?
A
AriesMar27
Guest
trade him for mcgrady so that i can say that i called it in the offseason...
A
AriesMar27
Guest
hell yeah, trade martin and nocioni for mcgrady and his huge expiring contract. we wouldnt need him to play...
beno and evans played well again...
M_Barragan
Bench
This is sacto... they superstars would not play here.... best player would could go after is Bosh.
M_Barragan
Bench
with marin and kenny out plus shareefs and mikkis salary out. We would have 26 million in the off season to make a move.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Martin and Hawes for Chris Bosh....Of course we'd have to convince him to resign, but it would be worth a shot.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You don't dump a Kevin Martin for salary. You just don't.
Now if Reke keeps this up Kevin is imminently expendable, but for a package, not peanuts. He's a valuable player, and his value in trade, combined wiht the pick and a FA woould be the difference between turnign the corenr or not. You don't dump him and hope ot do betetr in free agency. Even in this free agent class, how many players are there better than Kevin? Six? Eight? And we should have money to go after one of them even wiht Kevin's salary. So if you move him, you have ot try to bring back somehting we need.
Maybe go to Indiana -- Hibbert is blowing up, but could they resist pairing Kevin and Granger? Go to Toronto and demand everything not tied down in exchange for helping them keep Bosh. Or New Orleans to keep CP3 happy. Go to New York and offer to take their bad contracts (Curry/Jeffries)...along with their surefire lottery pick, in exchange for Kevin, aka Big Free Agent perfume. If you actually reach a point where you can use Kevin as trade bait you have to clean up. Its not often you are going to have such a potent chip.
Now if Reke keeps this up Kevin is imminently expendable, but for a package, not peanuts. He's a valuable player, and his value in trade, combined wiht the pick and a FA woould be the difference between turnign the corenr or not. You don't dump him and hope ot do betetr in free agency. Even in this free agent class, how many players are there better than Kevin? Six? Eight? And we should have money to go after one of them even wiht Kevin's salary. So if you move him, you have ot try to bring back somehting we need.
Maybe go to Indiana -- Hibbert is blowing up, but could they resist pairing Kevin and Granger? Go to Toronto and demand everything not tied down in exchange for helping them keep Bosh. Or New Orleans to keep CP3 happy. Go to New York and offer to take their bad contracts (Curry/Jeffries)...along with their surefire lottery pick, in exchange for Kevin, aka Big Free Agent perfume. If you actually reach a point where you can use Kevin as trade bait you have to clean up. Its not often you are going to have such a potent chip.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
you just wont give up with this bosh thing... do you think that he would actually come here or do you mean trade for him this season and pray that we can re-sign him?
Utah has New York's pick (would also be a good trade partner) I agree though, Kevin is no way someone to trade for cap space. I'd think we could land a high lotto pick or a legit up and coming star minimum. I still think Utah is the perfect partner for Kmart for that New York pick and some other pieces.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
If we continue to play like this and we decide to deal Martin, I'd hope we get a defensive center in return.
... Thabeet could be available, I know they have Mayo, but you never know with Memphis. Marc Gasol is a pretty good player too.
My pipe dream scenario would be a deal with Boston for Ray Allen and Kendrick Perkins. Ray for the expiring and Perk for the center. If Boston falls off the map by the deadline (highly unlikely, I know ) they may consider it. Still, Perkins is the kind of player I want on this team. He does so much out there.
... Thabeet could be available, I know they have Mayo, but you never know with Memphis. Marc Gasol is a pretty good player too.
My pipe dream scenario would be a deal with Boston for Ray Allen and Kendrick Perkins. Ray for the expiring and Perk for the center. If Boston falls off the map by the deadline (highly unlikely, I know ) they may consider it. Still, Perkins is the kind of player I want on this team. He does so much out there.
Indiana has coveted Kevin Martin for a long, long time. In fact, in their little revisionist history look at the Artest trade, they still want to believe the urban legend that says Martin was almost a part of that deal (which, of course, he wasn't)...
I love Kevin Martin and I would absolutely hate to see him leave. If it happened, it would have to be beneficial to us AND put him on a contending team for me to feel good about it...
Bottom line is that I agree with most of your post. And you do not even talk about trading Martin as a salary dump or for mere draft picks. That would be complete insanity.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
I would only give him up if we got a big and a high first round pick.
I like Hibbert and Marc Gasol.
But its way to early to start thinking about trading Martin, I want too see how he plays with Evans of recent. I do think if we kept Martin we shouldnt have to play him as much or we should bring him off the bench like (Ginobili or J.Crawford)... i meen he is ONLY a scorer and our new look is leaning towards defense and hustle.
You can notice a pretty big difference on defense with Martin not out there.
We are alot better..
I like Hibbert and Marc Gasol.
But its way to early to start thinking about trading Martin, I want too see how he plays with Evans of recent. I do think if we kept Martin we shouldnt have to play him as much or we should bring him off the bench like (Ginobili or J.Crawford)... i meen he is ONLY a scorer and our new look is leaning towards defense and hustle.
You can notice a pretty big difference on defense with Martin not out there.
We are alot better..
Showtime
Starter
I have noticed the ball movement improve without K Mart. He tends to be the ball stopper, looking to score on almost every possession, and he really has a hard time giving up the ball to a guy posting up, such as Hawes. The biggest difference outside ball movement is also the defense. It's much better with Evans on the SG, and Omri at the 3 than with Martin on the off guard and Evans at point.
TheWileyVet
Starter
Martin + KT for Bosh!!!
Chupacabra
Starter
I actually like the idea for both teams. However, the only thing missing is a draft pick for us. Other than that, the very worst case scenario would be we get Chris Bosh for 1 year and then have a TON of cap space next year. An insane amount of cap space. Toronto would atleast get a nice player and some cap room with Thomas's expiring. The best case scenario is the Kings convince Bosh to stay. Theyd certainly be able to afford him. The future would be Bosh, Evans, Omri. Im not religious but ill pray it happens.Martin + KT for Bosh!!!
Kings Faithful
Starter
Lets not jump to any conclusions after 2 good games in a row... last time I checked Martin is a 30 ppg scorer right now. With such a small sample size it could very well be coincidence that the team started performing right when Martin got injured. When he and Garcia are back I wonder how minutes are gonna go around. Especially considering Beno seems to play much better at the SG position... Also Udoke has proven he is a very good bench player... NOT ENOUGH ROOM ON THIS TEAM ANYMORE AGGGHGHG!!! look for a huge trade...
ParniValjak
All-Star
Too old!
QoooooQ
G-League
I think we should take at least this year to evaluate how much potential Martin and Evans have together. They could be among the 3-4 best backcourts in the league 2 years from now, which you can't expect from Udrih and Evans under any circumstances. See what frontcourt help we can get from the draft and free agency next year and think it through after that. But don't trade him now just because Beno had a few nice games.
folsomfella
G-League
It is an interesting idea, one that would be made more interesting if the Kings have a winning record by January. If this kind of play keeps up and the results continue, the whole "build the team around Martin" concept will need serious reconsidering.
kupman
Starter
I won't go so far as to say that Showtime wins the thread, but this a great post (probably because I agree with it). We may very well be a better team without Martin's 30 ppg for the two reasons he lists and it is why Martin is great trade bait. The 3rd reason is that he is injured too often.
I would love, love to see Bosh here. I would even trade Kmart + K9 + JT to get him, if we could get him for a long term deal. Too bad his contract is expiring. Before anyone flips out and says "too much" and "not JT," think about it. If you have Bosh playing 35-40 min/game and giving us 22 and 12 at the 4, why do you really need JT? Bosh would be the greatest PF in Sactown history since that fateful night in dallas.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I should perhaps note at this point that continuing to refer to Kevin as "a 30pt scorer" is a bit silly -- yes, he scored 30pts...for 5 games! He is not, never has been, and never wil be, a 30pt a season scorer, and if he was this thread would not make much sense.
But to start the season we were clearly running a highly highly Kevincentric offense that saw him taking more than twice as many shots as any other King. And so yes, Kevin was scoring 30, but nobody else was scoring more than 11. And yes, part of that is of course because you can't have a Kevin Martin score 30 without it taking away from the other guys because he is just a scorer -- he can't create for others along the way. But now that guys are going to have 8 weeks operating under a different system, I see no possible way that everybody just returns to Kevin scores 30 while I wait for scraps mode. With Reke in particular there is just no way.
And that's actually the biggest argument for considering a trade -- not because Kevin is Kevin, Reke is a SG, or whatever, but because looking ahead in your mind's eye it is almost impossible to see Reke playing at his best (let's call Utah his best) and Kevin playing at his best (let's call the 30pts a game streak his best) happening at the same time. If we run the Kevin gets 30 offense, everybody, inclkuding Reke, is knocked back into passivity. If Reke is running wild, he's not going to stop and get the ball to Kevin in his spots -- to that degree at least the Reke as non-PG people are right. He creates for teammates, his drive and kick game is emerging, but its not as if he's coming down he floor looking to get the ball to so and so just right in so and so's favorite spot, or just wanting to hand the ball off and stand around while Kevin does his thing. Just not his game. Its would be madness to intentionally dump a star and choose to only have one star instead of two...unless you can look at playing styles and say the two stars aren't really complimentary and maybe you can bring back a better fit in trade.
And so Kevin comes back....he's not going to average 30. And the risk is maybe it doesn't work. Maybe he only averages 20 and he and Reke struggle to both be at the top of their games together. Oil and water. I suspect that we are going to have a chance to find out, because Geoff Petrie for a long long time now has been "patient" to the point of somnalence on these issues. One of the reasons the whole genius thing got so ridiculous -- he waited too long on nearly every piece he had, waiting and waitng and waiting to see how it worked long after it was obvious it would not work and watching his assets depreciate across the board before selling low. He waited too long with Peja, with Bibby, with Ron, with Brad. Always wanting to wait a little longer and "evaluate" and in the process the rest of the league got to "evaluate" too and didn't like what they saw. If Kevin and Reke do not work together, it could be the same thing again. Rather than selling high, you end up "evaluating" and trying to sell a 20ppg asset rather than a 30ppg asset. You have to be intuitive and ahead of the game rather than reactive and pedantically wait until its obvious to everyone else. What was Bill Walsh's thing? "Better to trade a guy a year too early than to trade him a year too late?"
But to start the season we were clearly running a highly highly Kevincentric offense that saw him taking more than twice as many shots as any other King. And so yes, Kevin was scoring 30, but nobody else was scoring more than 11. And yes, part of that is of course because you can't have a Kevin Martin score 30 without it taking away from the other guys because he is just a scorer -- he can't create for others along the way. But now that guys are going to have 8 weeks operating under a different system, I see no possible way that everybody just returns to Kevin scores 30 while I wait for scraps mode. With Reke in particular there is just no way.
And that's actually the biggest argument for considering a trade -- not because Kevin is Kevin, Reke is a SG, or whatever, but because looking ahead in your mind's eye it is almost impossible to see Reke playing at his best (let's call Utah his best) and Kevin playing at his best (let's call the 30pts a game streak his best) happening at the same time. If we run the Kevin gets 30 offense, everybody, inclkuding Reke, is knocked back into passivity. If Reke is running wild, he's not going to stop and get the ball to Kevin in his spots -- to that degree at least the Reke as non-PG people are right. He creates for teammates, his drive and kick game is emerging, but its not as if he's coming down he floor looking to get the ball to so and so just right in so and so's favorite spot, or just wanting to hand the ball off and stand around while Kevin does his thing. Just not his game. Its would be madness to intentionally dump a star and choose to only have one star instead of two...unless you can look at playing styles and say the two stars aren't really complimentary and maybe you can bring back a better fit in trade.
And so Kevin comes back....he's not going to average 30. And the risk is maybe it doesn't work. Maybe he only averages 20 and he and Reke struggle to both be at the top of their games together. Oil and water. I suspect that we are going to have a chance to find out, because Geoff Petrie for a long long time now has been "patient" to the point of somnalence on these issues. One of the reasons the whole genius thing got so ridiculous -- he waited too long on nearly every piece he had, waiting and waitng and waiting to see how it worked long after it was obvious it would not work and watching his assets depreciate across the board before selling low. He waited too long with Peja, with Bibby, with Ron, with Brad. Always wanting to wait a little longer and "evaluate" and in the process the rest of the league got to "evaluate" too and didn't like what they saw. If Kevin and Reke do not work together, it could be the same thing again. Rather than selling high, you end up "evaluating" and trying to sell a 20ppg asset rather than a 30ppg asset. You have to be intuitive and ahead of the game rather than reactive and pedantically wait until its obvious to everyone else. What was Bill Walsh's thing? "Better to trade a guy a year too early than to trade him a year too late?"
beb0p
Starter
Let's give the Martin/Evans backcourt more than a few games to see if they click shall we?
I can't recall the last time we got back to back wins either but let's not go overboard and anointhttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/annointthe Beno/Evans backcourt as anything better than decent. As good as the Kings had played, there were still too many one on one isolations, ball not moving to the weak side, and ball movement (while much improved) is still nowhere near that of an elite team. The difference is that now we are talented enough to win despite the ugly offense, not because of it. The complete offensive meltdown against Utah's tight defense late in the game should serve as a cautionary tale.
Beno is feeding off of Evans' greatness, not the other way around. Put Rashard McCant, Tony Allen, or other decent combo guard next to Evans and they'll break out too. The point is, Beno is not the long term solution. KMart may not be either but a Kmart/Evans backcourt has the potential to be great and I want to give them a chance to grow together.
If a team gives us an elite big man still in his prime for Martin, then it's a different story. But unless that happens, we absolutely need to keep Martin.
I can't recall the last time we got back to back wins either but let's not go overboard and anointhttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/annointthe Beno/Evans backcourt as anything better than decent. As good as the Kings had played, there were still too many one on one isolations, ball not moving to the weak side, and ball movement (while much improved) is still nowhere near that of an elite team. The difference is that now we are talented enough to win despite the ugly offense, not because of it. The complete offensive meltdown against Utah's tight defense late in the game should serve as a cautionary tale.
Beno is feeding off of Evans' greatness, not the other way around. Put Rashard McCant, Tony Allen, or other decent combo guard next to Evans and they'll break out too. The point is, Beno is not the long term solution. KMart may not be either but a Kmart/Evans backcourt has the potential to be great and I want to give them a chance to grow together.
If a team gives us an elite big man still in his prime for Martin, then it's a different story. But unless that happens, we absolutely need to keep Martin.
Similar threads
