Trade idea that makes sense....for real!

[iowamcnabb]

this is how i see the west

LA
Denver
Dallas
Phoenix
San Antonio
Portland
Utah
OkC
Houston
Sacramento

But to be honest I could see Utah kinda falling off in the second half of the year. They haven't gotten better, are oft injured and are neither a contending nor a rebuilding team which can sometimes lead to flat play even though they have Sloan. Id like to see the kings play 500 ball up the the all star break and maybe we make a bit of a run

 

[Uncia03]

My biggest fear is not that we won't make a deal, it's that we make a deal that propels us into never-never land of mediocrityville, forever behind the teams like OKC and Portland who took the time to build primarily through the draft, and because they did build through the draft got legit stars, not backup centers.

It's a bit funny as my fear is that this year we'll wind up in no-man's land, but it's clear we're seeing the teams slightly differently. You think that bringing in a defensive oriented big such as Okafor/Sammy will propel us into no-man's land, while I feel that getting an Okafor/Sammy would be what is needed to propel us out of the sludge of no-man's land. I think that as this team is currently situated, barring injuries or major regressions in the team, that we're headed for 9th/10th seed in the West.

The problem with that, is that it might put us too far out of range to get that quality young big in the draft, and that is why I'd be all for a trade to avoid something of that nature happening.

Things will be much clearer as we near the trade deadline, in regards to whether this team can sustain it's intensity and win totals. We all want to maximize our changes to increase the talent level of our team, while watching the young guys grow and learning how to win. I just think that if we can make a trade of one of our non-core guys who can help us reach the playoffs this year, that's a far better outcome then not making a trade and ending up 9th/10th in the West.

Of course the best scenario would be to wind up with a top 3 pick in the draft, but we had the odds in our favor last season and couldn't even make it happen, so with how this team is playing now, I would be shocked if we ended up with better than the 12th pick in the draft.

 

[USNAVY15]

Airies Mar, you have the worst 3 way trade i have ever seen. You want to trade the not only the top two pillars of the franchise, but the 3rd and 4th pillars of the kings franchise if you count next years 1st round pick. All for BOSH?!? I am all about getting more talent at the 5. But i would never think to trade and gut the team. Teams are build from the foundation up, not on bamboo stilts(Bosh). I will pretend you were joking and give you a pass. I don't like bosh, i could do the griffin thing, but he has to be near untouchable without offering a drop dead knockout offer like 2 1st round picks and hawes. Which isn't a bad offer for both teams when you think about it. i would be wary trading away 1st round picks because next years draft is going to be very deep with big forwards like Al-Faruq Aminu and Ebanks, and Michael Washington, and it goes on. That being said, I like when the kings are, and this early in the season it would be unwise to make a power move

 

[Uncia03]

okay so i hit up realgm trade machine... for the low, low cost of martin/thompson/thomas/#1 pick we would get bosh and thabeet...

kings trade
martin/thompson/thomas/#1 pick
kings receive
bosh/thabeet

raptors trade
bosh/evans
raptors receive
martin/thomas/future #1 pick

grizzlies trade
thabeet
grizzlies receive
thompson/evans

it makes sense for all teams except the raptors unless they are sure that they couldnt resign bosh. though their team would be pretty offensively savvy... with calderon/martin/hedo/johnson/bargnani and would have a nice bench with derozan/jack/rasho/bellinelli.

If we had good odds of retaining Bosh, and the #1 is either protected or for 2011 season or later, I'd probably do this deal.

That's obviously a great deal for Toronto if they do feel that Bosh will walk, though I don't know why Memphis would do this considering they have Randolph, Gasol, and Arthur. Memphis is a young team, and if they were willing to give up on Thabeet so early, I think it's something you'd have to be a bit worried about.

 

[Telemachus]

if you go back to some of the prediction threads we were all pretty much in agreement that november was our month... it was the easiest part of the teams schedule this season. thats part of the reason why i didnt care for the games against the knicks and nets... they were "duh, we were supposed to win those games" games...

When you are considered by pretty much all the experts to be the worst team in the league, there are NO games that you are "supposed to win".

While the Kings are not the worst team IMO, they are still a team that can take NO ONE for granted. When they don't come out completely focused, they will have a game like they did against Memphis.

To me the key for the Kings is winning games no matter who they are against. Winning games (even against bad teams) breeds an attitude and confidence that will continue to help them against better competition.

 

[bajaden]

okay so i hit up realgm trade machine... for the low, low cost of martin/thompson/thomas/#1 pick we would get bosh and thabeet...

kings trade
martin/thompson/thomas/#1 pick
kings receive
bosh/thabeet

raptors trade
bosh/evans
raptors receive
martin/thomas/future #1 pick

grizzlies trade
thabeet
grizzlies receive
thompson/evans

it makes sense for all teams except the raptors unless they are sure that they couldnt resign bosh. though their team would be pretty offensively savvy... with calderon/martin/hedo/johnson/bargnani and would have a nice bench with derozan/jack/rasho/bellinelli.

Absolutely horrible idea. I almost posted a tweet by Thabeets coach and now I wish I had. He said, were teaching him basketball. Its like talking to a highschool kid. Thats where Thabeet is right now. He's overrated. He may be good some day, but you talk about screwing up a team that right now has great chemistry, go ahead and make that trade.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Airies Mar, you have the worst 3 way trade i have ever seen. You want to trade the not only the top two pillars of the franchise, but the 3rd and 4th pillars of the kings franchise if you count next years 1st round pick. All for BOSH?!? I am all about getting more talent at the 5. But i would never think to trade and gut the team. Teams are build from the foundation up, not on bamboo stilts(Bosh). I will pretend you were joking and give you a pass. I don't like bosh, i could do the griffin thing, but he has to be near untouchable without offering a drop dead knockout offer like 2 1st round picks and hawes. Which isn't a bad offer for both teams when you think about it. i would be wary trading away 1st round picks because next years draft is going to be very deep with big forwards like Al-Faruq Aminu and Ebanks, and Michael Washington, and it goes on. That being said, I like when the kings are, and this early in the season it would be unwise to make a power move

gut the team for a half season rental. if the half season rental walks, we gave away the farm for nothing but capspace. hope we don't pull a ben gordon, charlie villanueva offseason signings in that scenario. if so, i'll have my pitchfork and torch at arco.

 

[AriesMar27]

If we had good odds of retaining Bosh, and the #1 is either protected or for 2011 season or later, I'd probably do this deal.

That's obviously a great deal for Toronto if they do feel that Bosh will walk, though I don't know why Memphis would do this considering they have Randolph, Gasol, and Arthur. Memphis is a young team, and if they were willing to give up on Thabeet so early, I think it's something you'd have to be a bit worried about.

i posted it under the assumption that we would be resigning bosh... memphis would be trading thabeet for thompson, thats a pretty good deal unless thabeet turns into a kwame brown or darko... if he pans out in 2 or 3 years we'd be set. keep in mind in my trade he would be backing up hawes and playing for a coach that knows what he is doing, sometimes... if we somehow traded for bosh we would lose thompson or the pick if we traded for a back up center we would lose thompson or the pick... if we trade for both we would lose both.

if all thabeet can do is rebound the ball and play defense he'll be worth it.

sergio/beno
evans/garcia
nocioni/greene/casspi
bosh/brockman
hawes/thabeet

we'd still have capspace to fill out the rest of the roster...

 

[CruzDude]

As I stated earlier, Kevin Martin for Bosh can be straight across as their salaries are within 15% of each other.

Milicic needs to find a team that accommodates what he can do best. Detroit and the others were more halfcourt teams. He would be a short term solution that could or might be a longer term solution IF he works out. In the mean time we get 6 more fouls to spend at the center position with Hawes keeping JT and Greene at the 4.

 

[bajaden]

if all thabeet can do is rebound the ball and play defense he'll be worth it.

I hate to bring this up, but Justin Williams could do that. And where is he now? You still have to play both ends of the floor, and thats been Thabeets problem since college. This kid is two to three years away from being productive. Thompson is productive right now. He had 22 points and 14 rebounds tonight. He's very close to averaging a double/double for the year. For a second year power forward, thats pretty good. He's going to get better.

I don't want to fix the parts that aren't broke. This is a scrappy team that still learning each other. You can see it little by little. The last thing I would want to do is to stick a 7'2" player out there that has no clue how to really play the game. Especially at the expense of losing Thompson. Now if you can get Thabeet without losing Thompson, then I'm on board.

 

[Telemachus]

if all thabeet can do is rebound the ball and play defense he'll be worth it.

Here is the problem with giving up JT for Thabeet. There is only one thing that Thabeet can do better than Thompson, and that is blocking shots. He has never been a very good rebounder, and IMO will never come close to being the rebounder that JT already is. Thabeet hasn't been a very good defensively player either. He was always most effective when he was allowed to stay in the paint and play goalie, but he can't do that in the NBA. He doesn't have very good lateral movement or quickness when he plays man-to-man, and gets over-powered in the post the same way JT does (if not more-so).

I will also make a guarantee that Thabeet will never come close to being the offensive player that JT is right now, and that is with JT having a long way to go in that area.

 

[AriesMar27]

I hate to bring this up, but Justin Williams could do that. And where is he now? You still have to play both ends of the floor, and thats been Thabeets problem since college. This kid is two to three years away from being productive. Thompson is productive right now. He had 22 points and 14 rebounds tonight. He's very close to averaging a double/double for the year. For a second year power forward, thats pretty good. He's going to get better.

I don't want to fix the parts that aren't broke. This is a scrappy team that still learning each other. You can see it little by little. The last thing I would want to do is to stick a 7'2" player out there that has no clue how to really play the game. Especially at the expense of losing Thompson. Now if you can get Thabeet without losing Thompson, then I'm on board.

we would have bosh... and thabeet. those big defensive players look horrible in the beginning, remember diops rookie season? or dalembert? chandler? thabeet is averaging 2.8/2.8/0.9blks in less than 9 minutes per game... who knows how well he will play with 20 minutes... 5/5/2? lol...

he'll probably end up with similar numbers to dalembert or chandler minus the man defense... why is it okay to give up on another teams player after 12 games but not our own? give the kid a chance...

 

[beb0p]

There is simply no way that Toronto trades Bosh this season. I can guarantee you the FO will never in a million years let themselves go down in history as the guys who traded away the franchise player in his prime. If Bosh walk away in the summer, that's too bad, but it'll be no fault of the FO. But if they trade away Bosh now, irate fans will call for their heads. If Toronto wants to savage something from a Bosh departure, they can always wait til the summer and try to get good pieces in a sign n trade. There is no reason at all for the Canadian team to make a move during the season, even if they suspect Bosh may be leaving. Plus, the Raptors did not sign Hedo to partner him with... Kevin Martin.

Now, if Bosh pull a Steve Jax style and publicly demands a trade, that's a different story. Until then, not gonna happen. I only expound my thoughts because the title says "Trade idea that makes sense" and then I read the details and see Bosh's name. Why not Lebron James?

 

[Kingster]

It's a bit funny as my fear is that this year we'll wind up in no-man's land, but it's clear we're seeing the teams slightly differently. You think that bringing in a defensive oriented big such as Okafor/Sammy will propel us into no-man's land, while I feel that getting an Okafor/Sammy would be what is needed to propel us out of the sludge of no-man's land. I think that as this team is currently situated, barring injuries or major regressions in the team, that we're headed for 9th/10th seed in the West.

The problem with that, is that it might put us too far out of range to get that quality young big in the draft, and that is why I'd be all for a trade to avoid something of that nature happening.

Things will be much clearer as we near the trade deadline, in regards to whether this team can sustain it's intensity and win totals. We all want to maximize our changes to increase the talent level of our team, while watching the young guys grow and learning how to win. I just think that if we can make a trade of one of our non-core guys who can help us reach the playoffs this year, that's a far better outcome then not making a trade and ending up 9th/10th in the West.

Of course the best scenario would be to wind up with a top 3 pick in the draft, but we had the odds in our favor last season and couldn't even make it happen, so with how this team is playing now, I would be shocked if we ended up with better than the 12th pick in the draft.

The key point to be made here is: YOU DON'T USE YOUR BULLETS ON BACKUP CENTERS or "FUNTIONAL PIECES". YOU SAVE EVERY LAST BULLET TO GET A STAR (a young STAR). This talk of getting a backup center is frankly ridiculous to me. We have months or years before a backup center is significant. What we need is a STAR. And why would you use any potential trade or FA$ bullets up when you might need every last bit for a STAR? Getting a backup center does nothing for getting you a STAR. Instead, it reduces the potential that the Kings can get a STAR. Let's think BIG! NOT about backup centers or functional pieces.

 

[bajaden]

we would have bosh... and thabeet. those big defensive players look horrible in the beginning, remember diops rookie season? or dalembert? chandler? thabeet is averaging 2.8/2.8/0.9blks in less than 9 minutes per game... who knows how well he will play with 20 minutes... 5/5/2? lol...

he'll probably end up with similar numbers to dalembert or chandler minus the man defense... why is it okay to give up on another teams player after 12 games but not our own? give the kid a chance...

This isn't about giving up on a player after 12 games. I've been watching Thabeet since his freshman year in college. I've been saying the same thing about him for 3 years now. In those three years of college, he didn't make much progress. His own coach has admitted that he's at the highschool level as far as basketball is concerned. I've stated that he may be a good player some day. But I doubt he'll ever be as good a player as everyone hopes he'll be. I'd rather give our kids a chance. As stated before. The only thing Thabeet can do better than Thompson is block shots. In college he didn't run the floor. He still doesn't. He's the last player back in transition. Hard to block shots if you not back on defense. He's not a good rebounder, and never has been. Evans will out rebound him. I didn't want us to draft him because I thought he had bust written all over him. I certainly don't want to trade for him. Especially if it costs us Thompson.

 

[bajaden]

The key point to be made here is: YOU DON'T USE YOUR BULLETS ON BACKUP CENTERS or "FUNTIONAL PIECES". YOU SAVE EVERY LAST BULLET TO GET A STAR (a young STAR). This talk of getting a backup center is frankly ridiculous to me. We have months or years before a backup center is significant. What we need is a STAR. And why would you use any potential trade or FA$ bullets up when you might need every last bit for a STAR? Getting a backup center does nothing for getting you a STAR. Instead, it reduces the potential that the Kings can get a STAR. Let's think BIG! NOT about backup centers or functional pieces.

I agree and I disagree, unless you just don't care at all about this season. We're opperating right now with no center except Hawes. Now we can go through the season that way if you want, but at some point we'll regret not having someone, anyone, thats over 6'10" to come in and help. Now where I agree is that I would prefer to aquire a star, and a young one. But That could be hard to do in the short term. So if you can't get a star right now, thats why I suggested someone like Milicic. He doesn't affect any of the other things you spoke of. His contract is up at the end of the year just like KT's. The difference is that he's 7 foot tall.

Where you and I disagree is on this draft and lottery thing. Like it or not, this team has improved dramaticly. And their going to win a lot more games than some of us thought. Are they going to make the playoffs? No, I really doubt that. But I also doubt were going to have a shot at anyone in the top 10 players of the draft. Backup center or not. This team is developing a winning mentality. Their learning how to win games. But right now their shorthanded. I would do everything I can to help them win games and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[NorCal Reed]

Eventually Okafor will be the most likely deal. Just not now. With Paul out currently the the Hornets cannot make this deal and to be honest Petrie will wait as long as he can before he uses our K9 gold mine in a trade. Remember this is an 82 game season and an expiring Kenny contract is our future no matter how you look at it. So far it is looking as Okafor is our best deal. He is young, solves our center problem and gives us an inside presence. With that said we need to wait to get the most value out of a large expriring contract. The longer we wait the more we get out of the Webber trade. Also every true hardcore Kings fan needs to admit to himself/herself at some point how much the Sacramento name value can bring in FA value to this team. The top three (James/Wade/Bosh) are not possible to this growing franchise. Our future starts with the expiring contract of K9 and then grows from there.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Western Conference
Kaman
Biedrins
Oden (probably not available)
Pryzbilla (only as backup, still elaves us shy of a 2nd talent)
*Stoudemire (risky due to contract)
Thabeet (probably not available -- too big a loss of face for owner/franchise)
Okafor

Eastern Conference
Darko Milicic (probably not significant enough to mention)
Samuel Dalmebert
Brendan Haywood
*Chris Bosh (risky due to contract)
Roy Hibbert
Joakim Noah
Tyson Chandler
Marcin Gortat (maybe too minor again, but I just menton him as a player who might have potential and be available)

One player that is not on your list is JaVale McGee. He currently leads the league in blocks per/48 and blocks per/foul. Since the Wizards are in Salary cap hell and going nowhere, he might be available via salary dump.

No matter what we do I think we should target someone on a rookie contract and not overpay for a backup center.

 

[Kingster]

I agree and I disagree, unless you just don't care at all about this season. We're opperating right now with no center except Hawes. Now we can go through the season that way if you want, but at some point we'll regret not having someone, anyone, thats over 6'10" to come in and help. Now where I agree is that I would prefer to aquire a star, and a young one. But That could be hard to do in the short term. So if you can't get a star right now, thats why I suggested someone like Milicic. He doesn't affect any of the other things you spoke of. His contract is up at the end of the year just like KT's. The difference is that he's 7 foot tall.

Where you and I disagree is on this draft and lottery thing. Like it or not, this team has improved dramaticly. And their going to win a lot more games than some of us thought. Are they going to make the playoffs? No, I really doubt that. But I also doubt were going to have a shot at anyone in the top 10 players of the draft. Backup center or not. This team is developing a winning mentality. Their learning how to win games. But right now their shorthanded. I would do everything I can to help them win games and let the chips fall where they may.

I care for nothing, NOTHING, other than getting that star. I will not sacrifice one .22 bullet until we get that star. I want all the explosive available to make one C-4 gigantic mother explosion to get a star. And this talk about not getting one now, or how terribly hard it is, should be eradicated out of your (and most importantly Petrie's) mind. This limited-mind negativity will do nothing but set up roadblocks for getting a star. The time is ripe for getting a star. We have the ammo. So now Petrie needs to get out of his mini-mind-Sacramento box and think BIG. As ludicrous as it sounds, he should start with Mr. James himself. If he can find no possibility of James, then he needs to go down the list to Mr. Wade. And then if that doesn't work - Mr. X, etc. But rather than just dismiss these individuals as totally out of hand, he needs to carefully consider them, if for no other reason than it starts with the notion that EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE.

 

[Warhawk]

I care for nothing, NOTHING, other than getting that star. I will not sacrifice one .22 bullet until we get that star. I want all the explosive available to make one C-4 gigantic mother explosion to get a star. And this talk about not getting one now, or how terribly hard it is, should be eradicated out of your (and most importantly Petrie's) mind. This limited-mind negativity will do nothing but set up roadblocks for getting a star. The time is ripe for getting a star. We have the ammo. So now Petrie needs to get out of his mini-mind-Sacramento box and think BIG. As ludicrous as it sounds, he should start with Mr. James himself. If he can find no possibility of James, then he needs to go down the list to Mr. Wade. And then if that doesn't work - Mr. X, etc. But rather than just dismiss these individuals as totally out of hand, he needs to carefully consider them, if for no other reason than it starts with the notion that EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE.

You seem to ignore the fact that we may, in fact, have a young star in Evans.

Which star would you prefer to go after and what would you give to get him here? Throwing out LeBron's name is easy, but what would you do to actually get him here?

 

[bajaden]

I care for nothing, NOTHING, other than getting that star. I will not sacrifice one .22 bullet until we get that star. I want all the explosive available to make one C-4 gigantic mother explosion to get a star. And this talk about not getting one now, or how terribly hard it is, should be eradicated out of your (and most importantly Petrie's) mind. This limited-mind negativity will do nothing but set up roadblocks for getting a star. The time is ripe for getting a star. We have the ammo. So now Petrie needs to get out of his mini-mind-Sacramento box and think BIG. As ludicrous as it sounds, he should start with Mr. James himself. If he can find no possibility of James, then he needs to go down the list to Mr. Wade. And then if that doesn't work - Mr. X, etc. But rather than just dismiss these individuals as totally out of hand, he needs to carefully consider them, if for no other reason than it starts with the notion that EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE.

Look, your talking in absolutes here. If you know anything about me at all, its that I'm not negative. I've got nothing against trying to get a star anytime any place. I'm just speaking from a logical point of view. And logic tells us that the chances of getting a star right now, depending on what were willing to give up, is not good. I'm by no means saying it can't happen, and that I wouldn't be for it if it did.

But if we deal with the here and now, we've been operating with a two man rotation at the center/PF spots. If either one goes down for any period of time, this team is screwed. Yeah, we played without Hawes last night and won. Try that against the Laker's, or any team with size. As I was saying, if you don't care if we win or not, fine! I happen to care. So I would like a little insurance. And that insurance doesn't have to screw up our cap space next offseason if its done right.

I'am curious though. When you say star, exactly what do you mean? Joe Johnson, Wade, Bosh, or LeBron? Or a star just below that level? Realisticly I don't see us having the money to compete for any of the top players. And thats if they even wanted to come here. A sign and trade maybe. But I doubt Cleveland or Miami would do a sign and trade when they think they still have a chance to resign them. What we need is a big man. So Bosh fits that profile, and who knows, they just might do a sign and trade. But after the season ends, Bosh would have to agree to it. Who exactly did you have in mind and who would you give up to get that player?

 

[Kingster]

Look, your talking in absolutes here. If you know anything about me at all, its that I'm not negative. I've got nothing against trying to get a star anytime any place. I'm just speaking from a logical point of view. And logic tells us that the chances of getting a star right now, depending on what were willing to give up, is not good. I'm by no means saying it can't happen, and that I wouldn't be for it if it did.

But if we deal with the here and now, we've been operating with a two man rotation at the center/PF spots. If either one goes down for any period of time, this team is screwed. Yeah, we played without Hawes last night and won. Try that against the Laker's, or any team with size. As I was saying, if you don't care if we win or not, fine! I happen to care. So I would like a little insurance. And that insurance doesn't have to screw up our cap space next offseason if its done right.

I'am curious though. When you say star, exactly what do you mean? Joe Johnson, Wade, Bosh, or LeBron? Or a star just below that level? Realisticly I don't see us having the money to compete for any of the top players. And thats if they even wanted to come here. A sign and trade maybe. But I doubt Cleveland or Miami would do a sign and trade when they think they still have a chance to resign them. What we need is a big man. So Bosh fits that profile, and who knows, they just might do a sign and trade. But after the season ends, Bosh would have to agree to it. Who exactly did you have in mind and who would you give up to get that player?

Sorry to call you negative. I'm just very adamant about this issue.

And if you know anything about me, I'm extremely logical. It is illogical to negotiate with yourself. Logic also tells us that you don't truly know anything about what you can get in a negotiation until you literally ask for what you want - in this case a star. Logic also tells us that you can't get a star by frittering away your trade/FA capital on non-star players. Logic also tells us that by setting the bar low at the outset you are doomed to having your expectations met. The eye should continually be kept glued to the goal of getting a star. The star will be within the universe of NBA players as we know it and the universe of players in the draft. Petrie's strategy should be to ascertain every single young star player in the NBA and outside of the NBA and figure how to make a deal for one such young star player on his list. And you know what? - If he can't make a deal this year for such a player, he shouldn't lock us into a long term contract with even a good backup. Instead, he should PUNT and give us maximum financial and trade flexibility for next year - to get a star.

 

[Bricklayer]

Sorry to call you negative. I'm just very adamant about this issue.

And if you know anything about me, I'm extremely logical. It is illogical to negotiate with yourself. Logic also tells us that you don't truly know anything about what you can get in a negotiation until you literally ask for what you want - in this case a star. Logic also tells us that you can't get a star by frittering away your trade/FA capital on non-star players. Logic also tells us that by setting the bar low at the outset you are doomed to having your expectations met. The eye should continually be kept glued to the goal of getting a star. The star will be within the universe of NBA players as we know it and the universe of players in the draft. Petrie's strategy should be to ascertain every single young star player in the NBA and outside of the NBA and figure how to make a deal for one such young star player on his list. And you know what? - If he can't make a deal this year for such a player, he shouldn't lock us into a long term contract with even a good backup. Instead, he should PUNT and give us maximum financial and trade flexibility for next year - to get a star.

We have a star, now we are trying to put together the team around him. Be wonderful to get a 2nd star, but those very very rarely come via free agency. And most of the stars in free agency would directly conflict with the one we already have -- nto a reason not to get them, but certainly a reason to recognize that there may be other avenues to maximizing our position. Sitting around waiting to sign LeBron isn't really a likely plan anymore than buying a lottery ticket is a plan toward financial success.

Right now we have a team playing .500 ball with youth youth and more youth. We've got the star guard. I am increasingly confident we have our SF, although I go back and forth over whether its the potential star (Greene) or the potential super-roleplayer (Casspi). Either way the other one can make a very effective 6th man. That spot next to Reke almost does not seem to matter in the short term -- we can put almost anyone over there it seems and they all succeed in their own way. Some of that is definitely all the attention which Reke is drawing, and will draw into the future. So the positon of need, the spot we need to bump, is inside. Find a star big man. Barring that, find a stopper of a big man. And then sit on it. In 2 years Reke, Donte, Casspi, Jason, Hawes, possibly Sergio & Brockman -- over half our roster is going to be better, and likely considerably better, than it is today.

We've got three major assets making little to no impact on our current success (Kevin, the #1 pick, and Kenny's ender), we've got one minor asset not making any contribution ot our current success (Cisco), and we've got 1 or 2 potentially expendable expenisve assets making solid contributions (Beno, Noc). Between all that, if there is a deal to be made out there, we should be able to put forward a strong package to make it. In fact a Kevin, #1 and Kenny (ender) package woould be one fo the strongest anyone in the league could make for an available player wihtout cutting into their core. So we should be out there actively looking. Take a yougn team playing well together, add something to fix their biggest hole without subtracting anything/losing any of the youth, and you could make a legit playoff run out of nowhere with one of the youngest rosters in the league and all kinds of room to get better year after year therafter. Would be a spectacularly successful season if you could pull that off.

 

[bajaden]

Sorry to call you negative. I'm just very adamant about this issue.

And if you know anything about me, I'm extremely logical. It is illogical to negotiate with yourself. Logic also tells us that you don't truly know anything about what you can get in a negotiation until you literally ask for what you want - in this case a star. Logic also tells us that you can't get a star by frittering away your trade/FA capital on non-star players. Logic also tells us that by setting the bar low at the outset you are doomed to having your expectations met. The eye should continually be kept glued to the goal of getting a star. The star will be within the universe of NBA players as we know it and the universe of players in the draft. Petrie's strategy should be to ascertain every single young star player in the NBA and outside of the NBA and figure how to make a deal for one such young star player on his list. And you know what? - If he can't make a deal this year for such a player, he shouldn't lock us into a long term contract with even a good backup. Instead, he should PUNT and give us maximum financial and trade flexibility for next year - to get a star.

I don't think what I was suggesting and what your suggesting are mutually exclusive of one another. I certainly don't want to lock anyone else into a long term contract unless that player is an important part of the team. So the next question I would ask is, where do you draw the line in the sand. For instance, would dealing Thomas for Okafor be something you wouldn't do. And if so, do you consider Okafor just an average player. Slightly above average player or a borderline star player? Bearing in mind, that he's the right type of player for this team and the way it plays right now. Not a great offensive player, but a guy that can give you 15 to 20 points on some nights. But also a guy thats a very good defender and a guy that runs the floor well.

I can understand people turning their nose up at Dalembert considering his past. But with Okafor, you do know what your getting. Just curious what you think..

 

[Chupacabra]

Sorry to call you negative. I'm just very adamant about this issue.

And if you know anything about me, I'm extremely logical. It is illogical to negotiate with yourself. Logic also tells us that you don't truly know anything about what you can get in a negotiation until you literally ask for what you want - in this case a star. Logic also tells us that you can't get a star by frittering away your trade/FA capital on non-star players. Logic also tells us that by setting the bar low at the outset you are doomed to having your expectations met. The eye should continually be kept glued to the goal of getting a star. The star will be within the universe of NBA players as we know it and the universe of players in the draft. Petrie's strategy should be to ascertain every single young star player in the NBA and outside of the NBA and figure how to make a deal for one such young star player on his list. And you know what? - If he can't make a deal this year for such a player, he shouldn't lock us into a long term contract with even a good backup. Instead, he should PUNT and give us maximum financial and trade flexibility for next year - to get a star.

I would like to point out one thing regarding this topic. Most of the big stars in the league today are with the original teams that drafted them. This tells you that superstars are usually acquired through the draft and then resigned. They're not usually signed through free agency or acquired through trade. Typically it isnt until a stars later, less productive years that he becomes trade worthy.
With that being said all signs point to Evans being a star, one that we drafted. I have no problems pursuing a sub-star talent via trade.

 

[Kingster]

You seem to ignore the fact that we may, in fact, have a young star in Evans.

Which star would you prefer to go after and what would you give to get him here? Throwing out LeBron's name is easy, but what would you do to actually get him here?

Not ignoring that at all. Instead, I perceive with some on this board think that having Evans is the be all and end all. It's not. I look at our future competition. OKC and Portland, for example. OKC has three legit stars. We have one. Maybe one and half if you count Donte as 1/2 (he has a high enough ceiling to be a legit star). Portland has at least two, if not three legit stars. To compete in the future with these teams, we can't sit back and waste our capital on pedestrian players like Okafor and Dalembert. We'll be the Utah and they they will be the Lakers and Boston.

As for the specifics, that's the area of tactics. I'm talking strategy. And main principle of the strategy is don't wast ammo on mediocre players who will get you another five or so wins this year. It may give you short term bliss, and may help fill some of the seats for a while, but it just sacrifices capital to get you the star that is needed. The point to be made regarding James and Wade is simply that there is talk on this board about players like Sammy and Okafor. That's settling for mediocrity. Implicit in that thinking is the assumption that you just can't get a star quality player and so you'll settle for mediocrity. Forget that. You never know whether you can get a player like a James or a Wade or some other young future star unless you try. And by settling for a player like a Okafor or Dalembert you're doing just the opposite.

The Lakers got Gasol for a song. They basically said to Memphis: We'll give you nothing for Gasol. How about it? They asked the incredibly outlandish question. It was so "illogical". It was ridiculous. Petrie needs to ask that ridiclously outlandish question when it comes to every star he perceives in the NBA currently, not waste time and capital thinking about players like Okafor and Dalembert.

 

[Kingster]

Which star would you prefer to go after and what would you give to get him here? Throwing out LeBron's name is easy, but what would you do to actually get him here?

You never know unless you ask. Lebron just found out that he was adopted. His real father lives in Sacramento. He wants to re-establish that relationship and being in Sacto would allow that to happen. Wade has had enough of the hedonistic lifestyle in Miami. He's a "born again" and there is a fundamentalist church in Sacto whose minister he has formed a close relationship with. He likes the low-key Sacto environment and wants to move here. Hey, you never know unless you try. That's the first thing that you learn in negotiation. You don't start at the bottom and work your way up.

 

[fnordius]

The Lakers got Gasol for a song. They basically said to Memphis: We'll give you nothing for Gasol. How about it? They asked the incredibly outlandish question. It was so "illogical". It was ridiculous. Petrie needs to ask that ridiclously outlandish question when it comes to every star he perceives in the NBA currently, not waste time and capital thinking about players like Okafor and Dalembert.

There's something about the Gasol deal you aren't mentioning, though.

Rumor has it that it was orchestrated by Jerry West, who is at once loyal to the Lakers organization, and was also a very trusted basketball authority in the eyes of Memphis' owner. He was, after all, their GM until not long before that...

So Jerry West talks to Memphis' owner, and tells him he should blow up the team, sending Gasol to the Lakers as a salary dump. Know-nothing owner takes his word for it, and it's done.

I doubt that Jerry West ever travels to Memphis again without bodyguards.

And if we want a trade like that, we'd better work some of our spies into senior FO positions with other franchises, because the Lakers wouldn't have gotten that deal without West selling Memphis up the creek.

 

[Bricklayer]

Not ignoring that at all. Instead, I perceive with some on this board think that having Evans is the be all and end all. It's not. I look at our future competition. OKC and Portland, for example. OKC has three legit stars. We have one. Maybe one and half if you count Donte as 1/2 (he has a high enough ceiling to be a legit star). Portland has at least two, if not three legit stars. To compete in the future with these teams, we can't sit back and waste our capital on pedestrian players like Okafor and Dalembert. We'll be the Utah and they they will be the Lakers and Boston.

Which is somewhat true, but doesn't require us to sit around tanking to take a longshot at LeBron every year. We have this stack of assets piled around to acquire another star with if any are available, we've got 1 guy on the way, 1 low level star that I consider possible tradebait, and several kids with at least some chance (at least to the degree that we are accusing guys at the level of Aldridge or Jeff Green or Westbrook of being stars). Quite abruptly we are out of the realm of needing a homerun to save us. And hey, be greta if it happened. If the odds looked at all good -- we were one of only a handful of teams with caproom or whatever and knew some guy liked us, yeah, maybe hang in there. But the odds have always looked low, and we have ways of getting this doen now that don't involve winning the lottery.

Its also worth noting that if Evans continues to develp into what he looks like he's going to develop into -- and I continue to state that delicately simply because I don't want to be the guy who makes the first outrageous cliam, but really now, he's putting up Brandon Roy numbers and he's 5 years younger. In any case, when you have that guy, you are always just 1 major score away. For the next 12-15 years you will always be a threat.

 

[AriesMar27]

Which is somewhat true, but doesn't require us to sit around tanking to take a longshot at LeBron every year. We have this stack of assets piled around to acquire another star with if any are available, we've got 1 guy on the way, 1 low level star that I consider possible tradebait, and several kids with at least some chance (at least to the degree that we are accusing guys at the level of Aldridge or Jeff Green or Westbrook of being stars). Quite abruptly we are out of the realm of needing a homerun to save us. And hey, be greta if it happened. If the odds looked at all good -- we were one of only a handful of teams with caproom or whatever and knew some guy liked us, yeah, maybe hang in there. But the odds have always looked low, and we have ways of getting this doen now that don't involve winning the lottery.

Its also worth noting that if Evans continues to develp into what he looks like he's going to develop into -- and I continue to state that delicately simply because I don't want to be the guy who makes the first outrageous cliam, but really now, he's putting up Brandon Roy numbers and he's 5 years younger. In any case, when you have that guy, you are always just 1 major score away. For the next 12-15 years you will always be a threat.

i spent the entire summer comparing evans to brandon roy and john salmons(to a lesser extent) and got nothing but grief. but all of a sudden its the thing to do now, comparing him to good but not great players that arent pgs... if you dont wanna do it, i'll be the first to say it. evans will be the next brandon roy.... a good but not great sg with above average passing skills... who is a pretty good rebounder for his position. he will more than likely be voted in as an all-star reserve by the coaches at least once in his career. i think it will be his 3rd year, martin will be moved by next trade deadline.