Trade idea that makes sense....for real!

[CruzDude]

Bajaden and I have been kicking around his idea of K9 for Milicic straight up. Both are expirings and RealGM says it works. Darko might just work much better in the Kings scheme for Westphal than in NY. He would get good time, which is what he really wants, subbing for both Hawes and JT. Can score, block and play some defense. And did we say, he is an expiring contract?

Then when Bajaden was done and had to run out, he indicated it might be a bummer for K9 who has a home here and kids in school and has waivered.

Yesterday I discussed my idea of Martin for Bosh straight up. But might not get much interest from Raptos. But RealGM again says it would work administratively.

Ok we give up. What Bigs out there can help this year vs. longer term?

 

[Bricklayer]

Well the Bosh thing...I tried to solve that a while back with Martin/Hawes. Closer to a balanced deal both financially and talentwise, and I believe if you can pair Bosh and Evans that that is one of those classic All Star/All Star inside/out pairings that almost always result in a high level winning team. You could try to substitute in our #1 this year in place of Hawes, but Toronto would be frontcourtless this season if you did that, and would have to sell it as a complete rebuild via the strong draft coming up. Meanwhile I am not sure that Hawes/Bosh/Jason plays sufficient defense to be a high level winning trio.

And KT and Milicic, we've talked about this before around here. Its got nothing to do with KTs family or anything silly like that -- this is professional sports, you don't nix deals for fluff reasons. But what IS a problem is simply that New York has no reason to make that deal unless you throw in a pick or something. D'Antoni may not play him, but Walsh picked up Darko on purpose to give the team at least the option of height. They have no reason at all just to swap that out for an undersized guy who hasn't played in three years. And note that all D'Antoni cares about is offense, and Kenny can deliver little, so its not even a good fit that way.


The thing is here that what we need to take the next step now is a relatively rare comodity. We've got a ton of raw talent. We've got a young major star in the making at PG. It clarifies things. What we need is a major frontcourt player. The younger the better. A star is perfect. Barring a star, a defender/rebounder. And you total up all the players that fit that profile and we are talking maybe two to three dozen names. Subtract the ones not available, and...well, should give you a short list.

 

[bajaden]

Well the Bosh thing...I tried to solve that a while back with Martin/Hawes. Closer to a balanced deal both financially and talentwise, and I believe if you can pair Bosh and Evans that that is one of those classic All Star/All Star inside/out pairings that almost always result in a high level winning team. You could try to substitute in our #1 this year in place of Hawes, but Toronto would be frontcourtless this season if you did that, and would have to sell it as a complete rebuild via the strong draft coming up. Meanwhile I am not sure that Hawes/Bosh/Jason plays sufficient defense to be a high level winning trio.

And KT and Milicic, we've talked about this before around here. Its got nothing to do with KTs family or anything silly like that -- this is professional sports, you don't nix deals for fluff reasons. But what IS a problem is simply that New York has no reason to make that deal unless you throw in a pick or something. D'Antoni may not play him, but Walsh picked up Darko on purpose to give the team at least the option of height. They have no reason at all just to swap that out for an undersized guy who hasn't played in three years. And note that all D'Antoni cares about is offense, and Kenny can deliver little, so its not even a good fit that way.


The thing is here that what we need to take the next step now is a relatively rare comodity. We've got a ton of raw talent. We've got a young major star in the making at PG. It clarifies things. What we need is a major frontcourt player. The younger the better. A star is perfect. Barring a star, a defender/rebounder. And you total up all the players that fit that profile and we are talking maybe two to three dozen names. Subtract the ones not available, and...well, should give you a short list.

I agree that there's no reason for the Knicks to make a deal for KT straight across for Millicic. The question is, what would be enough incentive. A second round pick in the next draft. We pick up part of KT's salary for the rest of the year. I wouldn't be willing to go much futher than that for a player your not sure can help you.

I do think the Kings are playing with fire right now. And as I told Cruzdude, we saw a glimpse of what would happen if one of our bigs goes down. At the moment I don't see anyone in the draft that will be able to contribute right away at the center position. That could change of course. The ideal situation would still be the Okafor deal. But that doesn't look like its going to happen.

I've looked at every team roster in the league and their salaries. The pickings are slim. The Blount's and Fosters are out there to be had, but anyone thats really good is going to cost an arm and a leg, or, is untouchable, like Brook Lopez. Brook's brother Robin would be a good fit, but I doubt the Sun's would part with him considering their lack of height and the unknown status of Stoudemire for next year. I'm open for suggestions.

Bosh, Hawes, and Thompson may not be defensive juggernauts, but the three of them is better than the two of them. Plus I've heard that Bosh is playing better defense this year.

 

[fnordius]

At the moment I don't see anyone in the draft that will be able to contribute right away at the center position.

I wouldn't be hasty to conclude that. Players can really improve dramatically in a year. Look at, say, Lawal's last season. If someone like Larry Sanders had a great breakout year, our biggest worry might be having a pick that was early enough. I wouldn't hesitate to give someone like that a lot of bench minutes right from the start.

 

[bajaden]

I wouldn't be hasty to conclude that. Players can really improve dramatically in a year. Look at, say, Lawal's last season. If someone like Larry Sanders had a great breakout year, our biggest worry might be having a pick that was early enough. I wouldn't hesitate to give someone like that a lot of bench minutes right from the start.

No no, I agree with you. Thats why I said, at the moment. But that could change. There are several guys that could potentially be what were looking for. However, I don't think Lawal is one of those. I like Sanders, but he really has to improve his offensive game. The guys a freak athelete with a huge wingspan. Sidney is another one I'm interested in. And, so for Cousins has impressed me.

I would hate to be the GM though, and have my pick come up and have to choose between a big man of your choice and Evan Turner. On my little board. I have Wall number one, and Turner number two. And depending on your needs, you could easily exchange them. Both those guys are difference makers. I can't honestly name one big man right now, with emphasis on the NOW, thats a difference maker. Not in the same sense. But we have a long way to go..

 

[Entity]

Well the Bosh thing...I tried to solve that a while back with Martin/Hawes. Closer to a balanced deal both financially and talentwise, and I believe if you can pair Bosh and Evans that that is one of those classic All Star/All Star inside/out pairings that almost always result in a high level winning team. You could try to substitute in our #1 this year in place of Hawes, but Toronto would be frontcourtless this season if you did that, and would have to sell it as a complete rebuild via the strong draft coming up. Meanwhile I am not sure that Hawes/Bosh/Jason plays sufficient defense to be a high level winning trio.

And KT and Milicic, we've talked about this before around here. Its got nothing to do with KTs family or anything silly like that -- this is professional sports, you don't nix deals for fluff reasons. But what IS a problem is simply that New York has no reason to make that deal unless you throw in a pick or something. D'Antoni may not play him, but Walsh picked up Darko on purpose to give the team at least the option of height. They have no reason at all just to swap that out for an undersized guy who hasn't played in three years. And note that all D'Antoni cares about is offense, and Kenny can deliver little, so its not even a good fit that way.


The thing is here that what we need to take the next step now is a relatively rare comodity. We've got a ton of raw talent. We've got a young major star in the making at PG. It clarifies things. What we need is a major frontcourt player. The younger the better. A star is perfect. Barring a star, a defender/rebounder. And you total up all the players that fit that profile and we are talking maybe two to three dozen names. Subtract the ones not available, and...well, should give you a short list.

ok brick you put all our thoughts into words. Anybody want to try and put together that list?

 

[fnordius]

I don't think Lawal is one of those.

Me either, I was just using him as an example of a guy who improved a lot in a year. Sanders, however, I am very interested in as a defensive player.

-------------------------

I just looked over our schedule for the rest of the calendar year, and I'm thinking somewhere around 6-10. That'd leave us with a .419 record on New Years, which would translate to something like 12th draft position. It's slow progress, but I'll take what I can get.

 

[Entity]

Me either, I was just using him as an example of a guy who improved a lot in a year. Sanders, however, I am very interested in as a defensive player.

-------------------------

I just looked over our schedule for the rest of the calendar year, and I'm thinking somewhere around 6-10. That'd leave us with a .419 record on New Years, which would translate to something like 12th draft position. It's slow progress, but I'll take what I can get.

What are you hoping for?? Wall?

 

[Bricklayer]

ok brick you put all our thoughts into words. Anybody want to try and put together that list?

Was thinking of doing this anyway. Just going team by team by guys who fit the description, and greying out the guys who are too old/obviously not available (* indicates star, otherwise defedner/rebounder):

Western Conference
Camby (too old)
Kaman
*Gasol (not available)
Bynum (not available)
Biedrins
Oden (probably not available)
Pryzbilla (only as backup, still elaves us shy of a 2nd talent)
*Stoudemire (risky due to contract)
*Boozer (dishonorable dog)
Jefferson (not available)
Thabeet (probably not available -- too big a loss of face for owner/franchise)
Okafor
*Yao (not available, likely too decrepit anyway)
*Duncan (not available, too old)
Dampier (too old)

Eastern Conference
Brook Lopez (not available)
Darko Milicic (probably not significant enough to mention)
Samuel Dalmebert
Ben Wallace (too old)
Brendan Haywood
*Chris Bosh (risky due to contract)
Roy Hibbert
Joakim Noah
Tyson Chandler
Jermaine O'Neal (too old + broken down)
Shaquille O'Neal (too old + broken down)
Al Horford (not available)
Kendrick Perkins (not available)
Dwight Howard (not available)
Marcin Gortat (maybe too minor again, but I just menton him as a player who might have potential and be available)

 

[Nighthawk1]

What are you hoping for?? Wall?

At the range we're falling into... Cole Aldritch(questions to whether he can adjust to a new system) or Ed Davis... or even Larry Sanders (needs a lot of work offensively but a great defensive player with a freak wingspan something like 7'7")

 

[Entity]

I am still liking the Philly/boston trade that was rumored. Noc and KT out and Dalembert in. Biedrins interest me but GS has no other big. Kaman is a real interest. Maybe when Griffin plays it could intice the clips. My number 1 would be Oakafor. Bosh is a good idea just not sure I want to give up Kev just yet ( i know i know) If he had length on his contract I would but I want a garunteed 2 or 3 years if we give up Kev.

Do you feel like Noah is available??? and I love Haywood or Hibbert and Chandler. Pretty much all the guys you got listed as possibly avaiable I like we just need to figure how it could be done reasonable for both teams.

 

[Entity]

At the range we're falling into... Cole Aldritch(questions to whether he can adjust to a new system) or Ed Davis... or even Larry Sanders (needs a lot of work offensively but a great defensive player with a freak wingspan something like 7'7")

Aldritch and Davis are projected 4th and 5th picks. I don't see us hitting top 10 this year somewhere between 11 and 17.

 

[Bricklayer]

I am still liking the Philly/boston trade that was rumored. Noc and KT out and Dalembert in. Biedrins interest me but GS has no other big. Kaman is a real interest. Maybe when Griffin plays it could intice the clips. My number 1 would be Oakafor. Bosh is a good idea just not sure I want to give up Kev just yet ( i know i know) If he had length on his contract I would but I want a garunteed 2 or 3 years if we give up Kev.

Do you feel like Noah is available??? and I love Haywood or Hibbert and Chandler. Pretty much all the guys you got listed as possibly avaiable I like we just need to figure how it could be done reasonable for both teams.

Oh I'd be willing to bet half at least of the guys I did not grey are themsevles unavailable. I just did not want to overgrey and stuck to the obviosu guys -- stars happy with their team + vice versa, key roleplayers on elite teams etc.

 

[Entity]

Oh I'd be willing to bet half at least of the guys I did not grey are themsevles unavailable. I just did not want to overgrey and stuck to the obviosu guys -- stars happy with their team + vice versa, key roleplayers on elite teams etc.

All in all as far as us getting somewhat star power back I really liked the New Orleans deal for Oakefor. Yeah its a long contract for alot but, its a move that really puts us 2 years ahead of schedule for rebuild. Oakefor would make us legit. They must not have been sold on the KT straight up trade I wouldn't mind giving up our 1st rounder next year along with KT. I'd do Noc also but that would require more players from them.

 

[Chupacabra]

Was thinking of doing this anyway. Just going team by team by guys who fit the description, and greying out the guys who are too old/obviously not available (* indicates star, otherwise defedner/rebounder):

Western Conference
Camby (too old)
Kaman
*Gasol (not available)
Bynum (not available)
Biedrins
Oden (probably not available)
Pryzbilla (only as backup, still elaves us shy of a 2nd talent)
*Stoudemire (risky due to contract)
*Boozer (dishonorable dog)
Jefferson (not available)
Thabeet (probably not available -- too big a loss of face for owner/franchise)
Okafor
*Yao (not available, likely too decrepit anyway)
*Duncan (not available, too old)
Dampier (too old)

Eastern Conference
Brook Lopez (not available)
Darko Milicic (probably not significant enough to mention)
Samuel Dalmebert
Ben Wallace (too old)
Brendan Haywood
*Chris Bosh (risky due to contract)
Roy Hibbert
Joakim Noah
Tyson Chandler
Jermaine O'Neal (too old + broken down)
Shaquille O'Neal (too old + broken down)
Al Horford (not available)
Kendrick Perkins (not available)
Dwight Howard (not available)
Marcin Gortat (maybe too minor again, but I just menton him as a player who might have potential and be available)

Out of this crop I would like to see us acquire (in order) Chandler, Noah, Pryzbilla, Dalembert, Haywood. These guys all at least roughly fit into the mold of what id be looking for if I were GM. This young Kings team is showing alot of toughness in their play. What better way to round out that toughness than with a tough center. It seems like a necessity.

 

[Entity]

Okafor would give us a 3 big combo of JT, Hawes, Okafor that you can mix and match however you please. Hawes btw really looked like a true C last night in that post move with the skyhook over Lopez. JT is having a rough time of late. Okafor would would be a nice player to put in place of either of them starting or bench it don't matter. 1 of the 3 should have a good night. Just not sure what NO does about its center postion after that trade. Hilton, Songalia??

 

[SacKings7]

Add Blatche to that list, he proved he could play when Jamison was out. Not sure how good of a defender he is though. I like Hibbert too. He's starting to come into his own. Nothing special offensively but he's probably the tallest C right now with Yao out

 

[Entity]

Add Blatche to that list, he proved he could play when Jamison was out. Not sure how good of a defender he is though

Yeah I thought about Blatche as well just don't see where Washington needs anybody from our team that we don't. hmm Maybe our draft pick and KT for Blatche and Mike James of course we realsease james along with May or hell they can have May also if they want him.

 

[Nighthawk1]

One trade I've been throwing around in my head lately...

This is just a basic trade... At first glance, It appears we don't get "full" value for Kmart as we might like as fans, but I like Rudy's game... I think he'd be a good fit next to Evans (He can shoot and defend really well), we get an interior defensive player, and a prospect of a PG that we had quite a few looks at in draft workouts...

Sac Out: KMart, SRod + Brockman or Garcia (I lean towards garcia)
Sac In: rudy fernandez, Dally, Jrue

Philly Out: Thad Young, Dally, Jrue
Philly In: KMart, Cisco or Brock + Srod

Port Out: Rudy Fernandez
Port In: Thad Young

 

[Nighthawk1]

Aldritch and Davis are projected 4th and 5th picks. I don't see us hitting top 10 this year somewhere between 11 and 17.

We're just a couple weeks into the college season... things will change and who knows about where we'll pick. But yeah I agree that I expect those two guys to be mocked that high they have some great skillsets.

 

[CruzDude]

So what Bricks list and the other comments add to my thoughts is it comes down to Okafor and Milicic for long term and short term respectively. There is no one else out there who would seem to be available from a practical sense. Dalembert is a long shot wish list. Soooo, guess we wait awhile, maybe until trade deadline in February. Or until one of the bigs gets hurt, which I sure as H_ _ _ don't want.

 

[Entity]

We could hope that Greene puts on another 30 pounds and maybe he still has an inch growth left then he could be our Center.

 

[fnordius]

What are you hoping for?? Wall?

I *hope* for the #1 pick, of course. I expect somewhere in the mid to late lottery.

 

[Entity]

I *hope* for the #1 pick, of course. I expect somewhere in the mid to late lottery.

At what point do you hope that we win more and make the playoffs. Or are you going to wish for the top draft pick every year?

 

[AriesMar27]

At what point do you hope that we win more and make the playoffs. Or are you going to wish for the top draft pick every year?

ya know... why cant we all just hope to win enough games to be 8th seed... it would make it easier to build the team if we know that we can win some games... we wont need the added player to be a huge impact player if we can make the playoffs on our own...

 

[bajaden]

We're just a couple weeks into the college season... things will change and who knows about where we'll pick. But yeah I agree that I expect those two guys to be mocked that high they have some great skillsets.

Aldrich could be someone we might go after. Davis is a PF, and we need a center. A legit center. There are a few in the draft. Alabi, who right now isn't playing that well. Jerome Jordan from Tulsa.. Oqilvy from Vanderbilt. Bricky would love him. He's Brad Milller part two. But he's very skilled for what thats worth. You've got Onuaku from Syracuse and Pittman from Texas is you like real big bodys. There's also Renardo Sidney from Mississippi St. He's more of a PF but at 6'9" and 275 pounds, and athletic, he might work. I haven't even mentioned Larry Sanders or Michael Washington both of who I think are more likely to be PF's, but both are very long, especially Sanders..

The point is, I'm not sure any of these guys would be of immediate help. Thats if you want to win right away next year. Nor does it solve our immediate problem of not having a back up center right now. I'm also reluctant to give up our first round pick this year. This draft is shaping up to be a pretty good one and a deep one. I'd rather throw in a first round pick for 2011. I do think we need to do something.

 

[Entity]

ya know... why cant we all just hope to win enough games to be 8th seed... it would make it easier to build the team if we know that we can win some games... we wont need the added player to be a huge impact player if we can make the playoffs on our own...

Its just that I was hoping this year we were past the point of hoping for losses to get a higher draft pick. We have gotten to the point where we have a great young core. Now its time to get a proven don't have to be a "vet" but proven 4 to 5 years of NBA experience to come in and put us in to playoff contention and grow from there.

Evans
Casspi
Greene
Thompson
Hawes

thats a nice group under 25 years of age then you have Martin and Garcia with that 4 to 5 years of experience. Just need somebody in their age group that is a PF/C. Then you have Beno, Nocioni, and Sergio that are decent players themselves with experience.

You show me this

Evans/Beno/Sergio
Martin/Garcia/Beno
Garcia/Casspi/Greene
Thompson/Okafor/Greene/Brockman
Hawes/Okafor/Thompson/May

undecided about Noc

I will show you a team in the playoffs THIS year and even deeper next year.

 

[bajaden]

At what point do you hope that we win more and make the playoffs. Or are you going to wish for the top draft pick every year?

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I would hope to make the playoffs next year. We should be a little bit better through experience and hopefully, by addition. And some of the top teams will be a little bit older and might lose some important pieces. I suspect that the Lakers, if everyone stays healthy, and thats a big if, should be right there at the top of the western division. But, an injury to Kobe and you never know. The suns are overaccheiving right now. They could lose Stoudemire in the offseason. Nash will be another year older.

Next year I see us as one of the young bulls circling the old bull looking for a weakness. And his time will come. And so shall ours.

 

[AriesMar27]

Its just that I was hoping this year we were past the point of hoping for losses to get a higher draft pick. We have gotten to the point where we have a great young core. Now its time to get a proven don't have to be a "vet" but proven 4 to 5 years of NBA experience to come in and put us in to playoff contention and grow from there.

Evans
Casspi
Greene
Thompson
Hawes

thats a nice group under 25 years of age then you have Martin and Garcia with that 4 to 5 years of experience. Just need somebody in their age group that is a PF/C. Then you have Beno, Nocioni, and Sergio that are decent players themselves with experience.

You show me this

Evans/Beno/Sergio
Martin/Garcia/Beno
Garcia/Casspi/Greene
Thompson/Okafor/Greene/Brockman
Hawes/Okafor/Thompson/May

undecided about Noc

I will show you a team in the playoffs THIS year and even deeper next year.

i never wanted nocioni... and wouldnt okafor start over hawes? i just hate his contract.

 

[fnordius]

At what point do you hope that we win more and make the playoffs. Or are you going to wish for the top draft pick every year?

Every season, my wish is to win the championship and still draft a future HOFer. It seems pretty clear to me that we won't be winning the championship this year, but we could still draft a HOFer.

At what point do you conclude that the roughly .570 record needed for the 17th draft pick is not going to be happening on the heels of a .207 season, and stop taking offense at more moderate expectations?