Time to blow up the team - Save K-Mart & Ron

TheJoker

Bench
I have been busy latly with work and family. but i will just have to express this as a Kings fan that has seen enough mediocrity out of this team since i can remember. after last years run with the Ron trade i expected this team to continue to play solid and not be a stuck at mud '500 team'.

i know Eric still has to work with this team but i really want the Maloofs and Geoff to blow this team up i just don't think this team is going anywhere. if we're going through a rebuilding process then its the best thing we can do right now. right now this team is only a 8th seed as i see it and it pains me to say it. :(
 
VF21 said:
Oh good grief.

Yes i know, i'm being a little sensitive right now but...

If we can keep Ron & K-Mart

and Trade Bibby & Brad or whomever for Young talents/Picks then i will go for it i'm more pepared for the future then right now.
 
Yeah, whatever.

Sorry, but you haven't been around in a long time and when you do return, the first thing you do is post this "sky is falling" stuff? Why bother?
 
VF21 said:
Yeah, whatever.

Sorry, but you haven't been around in a long time and when you do return, the first thing you do is post this "sky is falling" stuff? Why bother?

I'm not suggesting the sky is falling but there comes a time were a team has to start over i think we're one of them.

of course i can be wrong but i'm posting what i feel is right for this team doesn't mean i'm right... but its something that is worth discussing.
 


I'm not suggesting the sky is falling but there comes a time were a team has to start over i think we're one of them.

of course i can be wrong but i'm posting what i feel is right for this team doesn't mean i'm right... but its something that is worth discussing.

I thought the rebuilding process started with trading Webber. Rebuilding takes time. The Kings are actually fortunate not to have missed the playoffs while they are going through this process.
 
Lamar_Odom brings up a good point, but i think trading Bibby and Brad for young peices like Deng or Vajerao will really help our future.

with this team i'm not sure what to expect but a early 1st round exit and we're not gonna be satisfied with that.
 
If you want to talk about hypothetical trades, please use the Personnel Moves forum.

In fact, I'll move this there for you...
 
I'm in total agreement. This team, as I see it, consists of Artest, Martin, and Price. Everyone else is trade bait. This is not a "sky is falling post", this is reality.
 
Since this has been moved to the "personnel" section, who can we get for our "studs" (Miller, Bibby, SAR, Thomas)? Who can we get and what does Muss want?


 
And Lamar_Odom wins the thread.


Actually, no he doesn't.

TheJoker has a point. There is no point fooling ourselves into thinking we are going to go deep in the PO's. Right now, we are a 1st round exit type team (assuming we even make the PO's). Unless GP makes some big changes (literally!) then we are going to continue to be a mediocre team. Personally I would rather GP make a trade to put us into the elite right now than go young and let them develop for the next 5/6 years. Having yong pieces is great, but are we really going to have a better supporting cast than we have now? Right now we are a superstar away from a title. Going young is a risk that could end up with us having another team of great role players. We have a better all-round team than the Lakers, but they're better than us because of Kobe. Same with Denver and Carmelo. And it's the reason we'd probably lose to Minny in the PO's.
But, having said that, I would rather go young than sticking around mediocrity (sp?), making it to the PO's, 1st round exit, and a crappy pick. I'd much rather trade for young pieces and get a top 10 pick (in a draft that is completely loaded with stars). Then we would still be bad next year and will end up with another good pick. May sound a bit over analysed after only 15 games, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out we're not a very good team. We're middle of the road. I wish GP would attempt to make a big trade (of course maybe he already is, but IMO he's just letting the team roll as there doesn't seem to be any action).


My point is that theJoker has a very good and valid point. It's reality, this season isn't going to end happily unless something is done.
 
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I still think that, despite his obvious flaws, Mike Bibby is a better player than anyone we could realistically get as a replacement. My keepers are still Mike, Ron and Kevin. Everyone else... they don't all NEED to go, but I wouldn't be sad if they did.
 
I still think that, despite his obvious flaws, Mike Bibby is a better player than anyone we could realistically get as a replacement. My keepers are still Mike, Ron and Kevin. Everyone else... they don't all NEED to go, but I wouldn't be sad if they did.

I agree that there's not a better point guard out there that a team is going to realistically trade, so if the Kings are going to trade Bibby they'd have to accept a downgrade at that position to improve in other areas.

The only way I could see a Bibby trade were if the Kings got a guy like Earl Watson (who is the best defensive point guard in the league but doesn't bring anything close to Mike's ability on offense) or someone like Mo Williams (who at 23 looks like a more-athletic Bibby in the making), plus a big or a pick. But neither of those guys is a better individual player than Bibby, and the good-player-for-two-ok-players type of trade doesn't usually work.

Ultimately I think the Bibby situation is going to be resolved in the offseason. There really are four options: 1) he stays at his current salary and it's the status quo, 2) he gets a raise from the Kings (unlikely in my opinion), 3) a S&T or 4) he walks. #4 isn't the disaster it may seem, because when his salary comes off the books the Kings would actually have about $13 million in cap room to go after Chanucey Billups or Mo Williams, and if it's Mo Williams there might be some extra money to go after a big.
 
i really hope Mike/Brad is gone after this season. i cant stand seeing Mike chucking up shots after shots anymore. and night in night out hes alway a liability on defense.
 
I was thinking a trade that sends Bibby to Orlando for a package.

Something like Bibby/Garcia/Pick for Nelson/Hedo/Battie

We get a young PG who could eventually be a stud, a super 6th man who will improve our bench, and a big that gives us...Whats it called? Oh yes, size in the backup C position.

Then our line-up looks like.

Nelson/Price/Hart
Martin/Salmons
Artest/Hedo
Thomas/SAR
Miller/Battie

While the Magic get Bibby paired up with a low-post stud (Dwight Howard), which will increase his game because Bibby is a great complimentarey player, and should not be leading a team...They get their versatile swingman in Cisco who will essentially attempt to fill the role that Hedo played...Battie is expendable to move Darko Milicic into the starting 5.Leaving their line-up looking like...


Bibby/Arroyo/Dooling
Ariza/Reddick/Bogans
Hill/Cisco
Howard/Garrity
Milicic/???

This leaves them thin at backup 4/5 positions, but I think a lethal pairing of Bibby and Howard are wirth it.

I dunno...I was just PO'ed and came up with it last night.
 
I was thinking a trade that sends Bibby to Orlando for a package.

Something like Bibby/Garcia/Pick for Nelson/Hedo/Battie

We get a young PG who could eventually be a stud, a super 6th man who will improve our bench, and a big that gives us...Whats it called? Oh yes, size in the backup C position.

Then our line-up looks like.

Nelson/Price/Hart
Martin/Salmons
Artest/Hedo
Thomas/SAR
Miller/Battie

While the Magic get Bibby paired up with a low-post stud (Dwight Howard), which will increase his game because Bibby is a great complimentarey player, and should not be leading a team...They get their versatile swingman in Cisco who will essentially attempt to fill the role that Hedo played...Battie is expendable to move Darko Milicic into the starting 5.Leaving their line-up looking like...


Bibby/Arroyo/Dooling
Ariza/Reddick/Bogans
Hill/Cisco
Howard/Garrity
Milicic/???

This leaves them thin at backup 4/5 positions, but I think a lethal pairing of Bibby and Howard are wirth it.

I dunno...I was just PO'ed and came up with it last night.

I'd go for getting a good young PG who plays good D and is a distributer rather than a shoot 1st PG like Bibby is. I'd love to have Hedo back, he is a good shooter and has good size. Also we need size which Battie would bring. I also would suggest trading Bibby and Cisco to Utah for Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer, other filler to make it work.

Ronnie is ready to step up as KMart did and is great on D and is an amazing athlete so if we aren't bringing into a young starter PG and instead fill our big hole at the 4/5 for Bibby then a combo of Price and Salmons would be good at PG.

We are not going anywhere and Bibby is at a cross roads after this season and is making huge $12-14M/yr I'd trade for youth. Brad has his moments on D as he did last night at SA and keeping Duncan in check. He is a great passer, but is much more suited to the Princeton system under RA then Muss so if we are going to make a run at KG this is the time!

Miller & Bibby for KG and young PG/young big from the Wolves to make it work. This is a bitter sweet trade because we know that Miller & Bibby are/were Allstars and near the top in their position, but we are talking about KG here. With Kmart, SAR/K9, Salmons, Artest, Price, Cisco to back him up, I think we have a great Defensive group here as well as enough scoring. We have good versatility at the 4 with SAR and his post presence and K9s quickness/garbage man/ scrappiness. KG could be our converted Center and K9 would thrive with SAR coming off the bench as he has in the past as our 4/5 sub.

We have really changed direction 180 and get our points from limiting the other team from scoring and have good young guys in KMart and Price at the guards who are very quick and good athletes. Bibby is making way to much to be the huge defensive liability he is. I know the guy is clutch and what he has done for us in the past, but he is really a short SG, and we need a true PG who distributes the ball and shoots if his teamates don't have better looks and he has an opening. Ronnie is a great shooter as well and can really grow into the PG position and is an amazing athlete (dunk over Boozer) and defender.

Teams PGs are really feasting on us with getting past Bibby at will and driving to the hoop or dishing off to a wide open teamate when they are doubled. We need to stop this. If we are going to be a defensive team, we need to get rid of the past in players that never will do this for us. We have awesome firepower in KMart and Price is coming along and they are both young, quick, and good on D.


I keep hearing we are 1-2 players away from going somewhere. Well get this trade done and book your ticket to deep in the playoffs. We still don't have as deep of a bench as Miami, Dallas, or SA...but we have young guys that have great talent and KG/Artest would be amazing together. Bibby/Miller are scraps from the old run and gun Kings with no Defense (Princeton system). I think the Wolves would think long and hard if we offered Bibby/Miller to them, that's a 2 for 1 starters and both of those guys are the tops in their position. If you are going to do it and win, you have to be a gambler, this middle road CWebb trade is crap, if you want it..go for it and make a big splash! If you want to be this Defensive monster team then you need the right guys to do it, not scraps from a old regime which is 180 degrees different (High offense/no Defense)! :-)
 
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I think the OP is a little doomy and gloomy about how he puts it, but frankly I doubt Geoff and the Maloofs would have any qualm about "blowing it up" if the right opportunity presented itself.

imo, nothing about the current formula is "sacred", not Kevin, not Artest, not Bibby... nothing. They are a nice trio, but not a champion core imho.

Once in a while you catch lightning in a bottle and get a Webber/Divac "CORE" to build around - a champion contender core. We don't have that now or anything like it. That's ok because it hardly ever happens.

So, sure... blow it up if the right deal comes along.

But I don't think we suck now, I'm not down on the team now, and I'm not clamoring for a "blow up". The Kings haven't really disappointed me - I had moderate expectations for the season and they are right about on track or maybe a little better.
 
I'd go for getting a good young PG who plays good D and is a distributer rather than a shoot 1st PG like Bibby is. I'd love to have Hedo back, he is a good shooter and has good size. Also we need size which Battie would bring. I also would suggest trading Bibby and Cisco to Utah for Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer, other filler to make it work.

Ronnie is ready to step up as KMart did and is great on D and is an amazing athlete so if we aren't bringing into a young starter PG and instead fill our big hole at the 4/5 for Bibby then a combo of Price and Salmons would be good at PG.

We are not going anywhere and Bibby is at a cross roads after this season and is making huge $12-14M/yr I'd trade for youth. Brad has his moments on D as he did last night at SA and keeping Duncan in check. He is a great passer, but is much more suited to the Princeton system under RA then Muss so if we are going to make a run at KG this is the time!

Miller & Bibby for KG and young PG/young big from the Wolves to make it work. This is a bitter sweet trade because we know that Miller & Bibby are/were Allstars and near the top in their position, but we are talking about KG here. With Kmart, SAR/K9, Salmons, Artest, Price, Cisco to back him up, I think we have a great Defensive group here as well as enough scoring. We have good versatility at the 4 with SAR and his post presence and K9s quickness/garbage man/ scrappiness. KG could be our converted Center and K9 would thrive with SAR coming off the bench as he has in the past as our 4/5 sub.

We have really changed direction 180 and get our points from limiting the other team from scoring and have good young guys in KMart and Price at the guards who are very quick and good athletes. Bibby is making way to much to be the huge defensive liability he is. I know the guy is clutch and what he has done for us in the past, but he is really a short SG, and we need a true PG who distributes the ball and shoots if his teamates don't have better looks and he has an opening. Ronnie is a great shooter as well and can really grow into the PG position and is an amazing athlete (dunk over Boozer) and defender.

Teams PGs are really feasting on us with getting past Bibby at will and driving to the hoop or dishing off to a wide open teamate when they are doubled. We need to stop this. If we are going to be a defensive team, we need to get rid of the past in players that never will do this for us. We have awesome firepower in KMart and Price is coming along and they are both young, quick, and good on D.


I keep hearing we are 1-2 players away from going somewhere. Well get this trade done and book your ticket to deep in the playoffs. We still don't have as deep of a bench as Miami, Dallas, or SA...but we have young guys that have great talent and KG/Artest would be amazing together. Bibby/Miller are scraps from the old run and gun Kings with no Defense (Princeton system). I think the Wolves would think long and hard if we offered Bibby/Miller to them, that's a 2 for 1 starters and both of those guys are the tops in their position. If you are going to do it and win, you have to be a gambler, this middle road CWebb trade is crap, if you want it..go for it and make a big splash! If you want to be this Defensive monster team then you need the right guys to do it, not scraps from a old regime which is 180 degrees different (High offense/no Defense)! :-)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but

1) Utah is not trading us Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer for Bibby and Cisco. I don't know if words can fully express how unrealistic that is.
2) Minnesota is not trading us Kevin Garnett for any package that doesn't include Kevin Martin (and even then still probably wouldn't)
 
I was thinking a trade that sends Bibby to Orlando for a package.

Something like Bibby/Garcia/Pick for Nelson/Hedo/Battie

We get a young PG who could eventually be a stud, a super 6th man who will improve our bench, and a big that gives us...Whats it called? Oh yes, size in the backup C position.

Then our line-up looks like.

Nelson/Price/Hart
Martin/Salmons
Artest/Hedo
Thomas/SAR
Miller/Battie

While the Magic get Bibby paired up with a low-post stud (Dwight Howard), which will increase his game because Bibby is a great complimentarey player, and should not be leading a team...They get their versatile swingman in Cisco who will essentially attempt to fill the role that Hedo played...Battie is expendable to move Darko Milicic into the starting 5.Leaving their line-up looking like...


Bibby/Arroyo/Dooling
Ariza/Reddick/Bogans
Hill/Cisco
Howard/Garrity
Milicic/???

This leaves them thin at backup 4/5 positions, but I think a lethal pairing of Bibby and Howard are wirth it.

I dunno...I was just PO'ed and came up with it last night.

Im quoting myself to add another point to my whole trade, as a selling point for Orlando.

With Both Howard and Milicic being tall athletic shot-blockers, Bibby's defense wouldn't seem as terrible as people would be nervous to run right past him and float up lay-ups.

Dwight Howard and Darko Milicic are much more intimidating than Brad Miller and Kenny Thomas.
 
I'd of course do that in a second, but I just can't see Orlando trading for Bibby when Nelson/Arroyo are playing so well.

The only teams that I can think of that would have a use for Bibby are Cleveland, Houston, Memphis, Lakers, Indiana and Atlanta. Everyone else seems to be pretty well set at the point guard position.
 
Bibby would make Orlando an instant contender...At least for the East Conference.

It all depends on if they feel like they want to win now, or wait it out a few years until Dwight turns super-super stud and Nelson turns stud...Which will be lethal.

Trade or no trade, they will be East contenders for quite some time.
 
for some reason i always thought that trading artest would make it easier to become conterders again than trading bibby...

artest/reef/filler(corliss/pot/garcia) would be a better trade for a big man like kg than bibby and miller... small affordable salarise as opposed to huge defenseless ones... and with mike james on the team why would they want bibby?

artest said that he would want to play for the knicks, maybe isaiah would be crazy enough to trade curry for artest... to be honest, as much as i love artest... he has the most trade value and... salmons plays well enough to make up for some of what artest brings... they are not on the same level but salmons plays better with martin than artest does...

i would love to dump bibby somewhere if we could get earl watson... but... oh well... if we had a real go-to guy then price/hart wouldnt be so bad...
bibby/artest/reef/corliss for kg/mike james wouldnt be that bad... especially if we could trade james somewhere else... maybe atlanta or cleaveland...

i hear that chandler isnt doing to well on the hornets.... maybe miller would be a better fit, doubt it but still...
 
Since we are talking trades..

How about I throw this one out.

What do you think about Bibby and Miller for Knight and Okafor. Charlotte would get better on offense and although Knight doesn't have near the capabilities of Bibby on offense I like the fact that he thinks pass first and is a much better defensive player. Plus we would have that shot-blocker we have always dreamed about.
Realistically, I don't know if the bobcats would make this trade but maybe it would be worth a try even if we had to throw in a pick and some other players.
 
How about I throw this one out.

What do you think about Bibby and Miller for Knight and Okafor. Charlotte would get better on offense and although Knight doesn't have near the capabilities of Bibby on offense I like the fact that he thinks pass first and is a much better defensive player. Plus we would have that shot-blocker we have always dreamed about.
Realistically, I don't know if the bobcats would make this trade but maybe it would be worth a try even if we had to throw in a pick and some other players.

There's no way. Okafor is a young rising star, Knight's a savvy veteran keeping Felton's spot warm. Charlotte isn't interested in acuquiring high-paid veterans, they're building for the future with young players, picks and cap room.
 
I don't think the Kings are going to get full value for Bibby until the offseason because of the uncertainty of his contract situation. No one is really going to give up too much when he could just opt out at the end of the season.

This is one of the only deals I could come up with that even remotely makes sense:

Sacramento outgoing:
Bibby
Sacramento incoming:
Earl Watson
Jeff Foster

Seattle outgoing:
Earl Watson
Seattle incoming:
Jamaal Tinsley (or Jasikevicius if they want to clear salary)

Indiana outgoing:
Jeff Foster
Jamaal Tinsely
Indiana incoming:
Mike Bibby

Again, this is getting into that dangerous "getting spare parts for one good player" type of deal. I like Earl Watson -- he's a great defender, a good distributor.. but he's no Bibby. At this point I think this may be the best the Kings could do, and it's certainly not pretty. I wouldn't do it.

In the offseason, if Bibby walks there's the possibility of offering a big deal to Darko starting in the $7 - $8 million range and then offering $5 million to Mo Williams. Mo/Darko is better and younger than Watson/Foster, but it all depends on whether Bibby opt out or not, and Mo Williams still has quite a bit of improving to do before he's as good as Bibby.
 
maybe isaiah would be crazy enough to trade curry for artest...

Your kidding right?

Look here.

Ron Artest...17.4ppg, 7.6rpg, 3.1apg, 2.77spg, 1.08bpg...And All-NBA level defense night in, night out.

Eddy Curry...16.1ppg, 6.7rpg, 0.5apg, 0.32spg, 0.37bpg

The stats say everything.

Especially given Curry is a 7-foot center who does just about everything worse than Artest.
 
Eddy Curry just had six 20+ games in a row though, with his most recent being 27 points. He is looking pretty good, but is not worth Artest.
 
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