thoughts on the Kings

Smart_guy3 · Dec 3, 2005

I have been out of town for a few days now ( Business trip )... anyways I see alot of Improvements on this team there starting to slowly get it together obviously last night was tough but I'm mostly frustrated with guys like Skinner rideing on the bench while we pay those guys for nothing.

And I still have not changed my opinion on 'RA' I still think he should be fired;

Anyways... let's hope this team gets it together and goes on a 5-7 game winning streak to compete in the Division.

GO KiNgS!!!!!

kingsville · Dec 3, 2005

kings were the KINGS from 1998- pre cwebb trade

kings now are the "new kings "

Kings113 · Dec 3, 2005

Smart_guy3 said:

I see alot of Improvements on this team there starting to slowly get it together obviously last night was tough but I'm mostly frustrated with guys like Skinner rideing on the bench while we pay those guys for nothing.

And I still have not changed my opinion on 'RA' I still think he should be fired;

Anyways... let's hope this team gets it together and goes on a 5-7 game winning streak to compete in the Division.

GO KiNgS!!!!!

Agreed.

Smart_guy3 · Dec 3, 2005

kingsville" said:

This Kings team is more talented then the 98 team without Webber no doubt about that.

tyrant · Dec 3, 2005

my thoughts on the kings is that they stink. bottom line. peja is softer than baby wipes. he's not that aggressive on offense, i could probably live with that cuz that's how he is. but at least get 3 fouls a game. the man would rather get scored on than dish out a hard foul to prevent an easy bucket. someone fire adelman. how long does it take to shape up a few new players when your core is still intact???? trade shareef or brad. we can't win with this big man combo. they play as big as an 8th grade center. they look like children out there. give sampson and skinner some playing time.

16to93 · Dec 3, 2005

tyrant said:

I definately agree with you on the Kings big men. In my opinion we need to change one of the two players in the front court. We also need to play Jamaal Sampson. Adelman should play him for 10 - 15 minutes in just one game to see how he does out there.

gman23 · Dec 3, 2005

I think Miller is more of a PF than center. Let Sampson get some playing time along with Garcia and Martin. Give Skinner about 15 min of playing time. We need players that can be molded and Bibby, Pedja and Miller are not going to be molded. I would like to see Garcia and martin as guards together in a game with Bonzi as SF.

My line-up in 5 weeks would be after giving the below people some playing time:

Jamal -Center
Miller - PF ( hell he's shooting better than Pedja)
Shareef - SF
Garcia - SG
Martin -PG

tyrant · Dec 3, 2005

gman23 said:

I think Miller is more of a PF than center. Let Sampson get some playing time along with Garcia and Martin. Give Skinner about 15 min of playing time. We need players that can be molded and Bibby, Pedja and Miller are not going to be molded. I would like to see Garcia and martin as guards together in a game with Bonzi as SF.

My line-up in 5 weeks would be after giving the below people some playing time:

Jamal -Center
Miller - PF ( hell he's shooting better than Pedja)
Shareef - SF
Garcia - SG
Martin -PG

and with that lineup we'll finish the rest of the season 16-50

bibbinator · Dec 3, 2005

No doubt about it, Peja is soft, but hand injuries should not be underestimated as anyone who has gone through a bad case of RSI can tell you. Remember how useless Skinner got once his thumbs got jammed last year?

If I were RA I would let Peja work himself back into the line up slowly, we were doing fine without him. Peja, at full strength,has the skills that make a good team great but aren't as useful for a team fighting to be mediocre.

The problem is this means fewer minutes for Peja which will lower his numbers. A guy who scores 25+ points in 40 minutes on a regular basis is valuable, the same guy scoring 12.5+ points in 20 minutes doesn't look as good.

Knowing Petrie they are working to maximize on whatever they do with Peja, they don't want to let him walk at the end of his contract for nothing. So if they pull back on minutes for Peja not only do his numbers go down, but people start wondering why he isn't getting big minutes any more. It becomes a question mark.

Short term the obvious thing to do is cut his minutes, long term we want to maximize his value in a deal which means we need to keep his numbers up. It was the same deal with cwebb.

Zyphen · Dec 3, 2005

tyrant said:

That's a charitable estimate.

VF21 · Dec 3, 2005

bibbinator said:

Good God, I hope not. Another "deal" like that and this team is finished...

If Petrie does decide to pull the trigger on a trade for Peja, I would hope and pray it's better than the Webber deal.

Smart_guy3 · Dec 3, 2005

VF21 said:

If Peja is traded; IMO he will go to Toronto or Chicago ( alot ) of Euros live in those areas and Peja likes that.

If Peja goes to Toronto it will be for Jalen Rose if he goes to Chicago it will be for Deng.

VF21 · Dec 3, 2005

If Peja gets traded, it's going to be in a deal that's best for the Kings NOT best for Peja's social life. You can take that to the bank.

Why on earth should it matter if "Peja likes that" or not??? It certainly didn't matter if Doug liked it ... or Webb liked it ... or Jason Williams liked it.

If a deal came down that was made primarily for Peja's convenience, I would be looking for my pitchfork and trying to light a torch for the march on Arco.

Kings113 · Dec 3, 2005

But, if it means getting Luol Deng and other acquistions, okay then!

Petrie wouldn't do Peja for Jalen Rose.

Smart_guy3 · Dec 3, 2005

VF21 said:

I agree, with you it is gonna come down to whats best for this Organization but it's also gonna come down to what players want/feel is best for themselfs also.

It happened with alot of players who were traded; only thing we can hope for is if Peja does get traded it has to be a equal trade for the Kings not something like the deal with CWebb cause IMO that trade was beyond awful as you pointed out.

VF21 · Dec 3, 2005

It has NOTHING to do with what players want/feel is best for them. They have NO say in trades. Do you think Doug Christie wanted to go to Orlando? Did you see Webber saying "Hey, okay!" to the Philadelphia deal? Jason Williams was totally blind-sided by his trade to Memphis.

I don't know what you're thinking but the players are the VERY LAST to know about a trade. They have absolutely NO SAY in where they go. None, nada, zip, zilch, zero... NONE!

Smart_guy3 · Dec 3, 2005

VF21 said:

They have no say, which I agree but when they know there traded; they wanna know were there going and if it's a place they hate and a team they don't want to play for then they will purposely not come to practice to let that team suspend him, as I recall Jim Jackson did it with New Orleans and New Orleans pressured themselfs to trade him to PHX and it probably put New Orleans in a bad reputation.

Thats why the Kings have to work on sending Peja to a place he wants and I'm sure Geoff will do a trade to make it equal.

VF21 · Dec 3, 2005

Smart_guy3 said:

Whoa. You so do not get it...

Jim Jackson virtually had nothing to lose. He was on his 12th team (or so) and was looking at the end of his career.

Players purposefully don't come to practice and let teams suspend them? Holy crap, batman. That so DOESN'T happen.

The Kings do NOT have to work on sending Peja to a place he wants. PERIOD. And Geoff Petrie isn't even going to think about that in his negotiations, not if he's even 10% of the GM everyone thinks him to be. What he'll be thinking about is where to trade Peja where he can do the least harm against the Kings in the future, meaning he'll most likely go to a team in the East. What he'll be thinking about is what can he get for Peja that will be the best for us, if not now then in the near future. What he'll be thinking about is whether or not we'll have to kick in a sweeter like a draft pick to make the deal work. He is not going to be thinking about how warm a welcome Peja will get from whatever community he happens to send him to. It just ain't gonna happen.

EDIT: If we don't make a trade before the deadline, then the ball is totally in Peja's court. He can walk away, he can agree to a sign and trade and THEN he'd pretty much be able to dictate terms. But, before Feb. 23, he isn't going to be saying anything and Petrie isn't going to be asking him where he'd like to go.

BW42 · Dec 3, 2005

tyrant said:

If this team had a record of 2-14 right now instead of 7-9 I would say they stink. You just have to have patience with this team. It'll come around eventually. I can see just by watching them play nightly that they're slowly starting to get used to each other on the floor and finding their niche.

Sans Bibby, Peja, and Miller, the rest of the guys have only been together two months. I know that the three that came over from the Sixers for Webber played here last season, but even they only played with the "Big Three" for three months prior to getting bounced by the Sonics in the playoffs. You can't just put 9 new faces on a team that have never played with each other and expect great things to happen overnight. It just takes time.

As far as Peja... he needs to go. I totally agree with you on the "softer than baby wipes" comment. How can someone who stands 6'10" only average 4 rebounds a game? Since both he and Bonzi are free agents at the end of the season, they're gonna have to choose which one of those guys to re-sign. They're not gonna be able to afford to bring both guys back next year. To me, it's pretty obvious who'll be sticking around and who will go.

Trade Shareef? You're crazy, dude. That guy brings it every night he's out there and he has the toughness, and the post moves Webber wishes he ever had.

VF21 · Dec 3, 2005

BW42 said:

Nice first post.

Welcome to the board!

If Peja isn't traded by the deadline, just expect him to get a very lucrative offer at the end of the year.

As far as Bonzi goes, he won't ask for a mega deal. He knows very well that Petrie took a major chance on him and I think he'll accept a fair offer without breaking the team.

Our biggest problem is doing something about KT, Skinner and Corliss. They're the major $$ logjam right now.

But, you made a very good point:

I'm pretty sure Petrie, Adelman, etc. have a timetable in mind that they're looking to as a milepost for when to start panicking. And I don't think we're there quite yet.

KP · Dec 3, 2005

BW42 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah he sure showed Zo last night who was boss inside! Or how bout the game before against Golden State where SAR couldn't get anything at all inside, the way people exagerate the talent of the players on our team has gotten really out of control. Webber isn't half the player he once was and he still may be better(all around) right now than Reef is. In his Prime Webb would mop the floor with him, the guy avg 27 11 and 5 one year, Reef just isn't that kind of player. He's a good player but really more like Webber-lite.

Padrino · Dec 3, 2005

BW42 said:

i really don't understand why people seem to think webber never had any post moves. this is the most ludicrous thing i've ever heard, and it shows just how short-sighted kings fans can be. yes, it is true that the last few years, as webber's knee has deteriorated, he lacks the mobility and lift to assert himself in the post, but do you seriously think webber had a 15-18 foot jumper when he first entered the league, or even in his prime? no. think back to the jason williams-era kings. webb owned the post. he had all sorts of spin moves, half hooks, and floaters in his skill set. he had explosiveness back then as well, and was quick enough to blow by almost any PF in the league in the paint, posterizing them with a powerhouse dunk and that all-too-familiar swagger. he's a helluvalot stronger than reef, and he used it back when he was able.

Bricklayer · Dec 3, 2005

Unfortunately Reef impresses me as much the same guy he always has -- game looks pretty, but its just lacking in any real substance. Just not nourishing. Best thing he's got going for him is the contract.

Circa_1985_Fan · Dec 3, 2005

I dont care how much money Webb is making the next 3 years, I still hate the trade. Realistically, he was the glue, and would still BE the glue if he was here...he has a character that no one else even remotely posesses. Shareef is solid, but thats the best you're going to get from him. We need someone with the same fire that Bonzi has. Bonzi needs to be more vocal, I think he's at the point in career where he can and SHOULD be respected as a LEADER I wish he would see that because it could be very Webb/Christie-like(I swear I'm not living in the past*L*) Anyways...hmmm...anyone got Latrell Sprewell's #??

nbrans · Dec 3, 2005

This board is getting really insufferable. Calllllllmmmmm doooowwwnnnn people. Everyone recalls '98/'99 with a lot of fondness, but does anyone remember the the Kings' record? The first year they made the playoffs and everyone was excited about JWill, Vlade and Webber? They were 27-23. .547 winning percentage. Barely a winning team. Want to know what they were the next year? 44-38.

Guess what, this is year one of a completly new team. People are pretty crazy if they think teams are going to just go out and win without a chance to gel. The main pieces of the best teams in the league have been playing together for years. Look how long the Pacers' core, the Spurs, the Pistons have all been together. Heck, even most of the Warriors have been sucking together for a while before this year.

All the whining and complaining and "fire Adelman" and trade all the players and blah blah blah.... Seriously, get some perspective. It's going to take some time to get back to where the Kings used to be.

Smart_guy3 · Dec 3, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Reef is the brightest player this year, he's been playing his heart out.

nbrans · Dec 3, 2005

VF21 said:

I disagree with this actually. If a team is going to trade for Peja they're most likely going to want to know if Peja will sign an extension with them to make the trade worthwhile. If Peja refuses to consider an extension with a potential trade team his value is going to be miniscule -- a team would basically just be trading for a half season of outside shooting and the mere possibility that he'll sign with them in the offseason. However, if Petrie has Peja in the loop and Peja guarantees he'll sign with a team should a trade happen then the Kings have a much better chance of getting fair value in return.

Kings113 · Dec 3, 2005

nbrans said:

This board is getting really insufferable. Calllllllmmmmm doooowwwnnnn people. Everyone recalls '98/'99 with a lot of fondness, but does anyone remember the the Kings' record? The first year they made the playoffs and everyone was excited about JWill, Vlade and Webber? They were 27-23. .547 winning percentage. Barely a winning team. Want to know what they were the next year? 44-38.

Guess what, this is year one of a completly new team. People are pretty crazy if they think teams are going to just go out and win without a chance to gel. The main pieces of the best teams in the league have been playing together for years. Look how long the Pacers' core, the Spurs, the Pistons have all been together. Heck, even most of the Warriors have been sucking together for a while before this year.

All the whining and complaining and "fire Adelman" and trade all the players and blah blah blah.... Seriously, get some perspective. It's going to take some time to get back to where the Kings used to be.

A big old indeed from Kings113.

Zyphen · Dec 3, 2005

Reef is just a victim of circumstance. He's good and all but he doesn't cover his teammates' weaknesses, nor they his. That's just how our group is constructed. It could be worse. We could be as poorly put together as the Rockets.

Kings113 · Dec 3, 2005

Zyphen said:

Speaking of the Rockets, Grizzlies mauled them tonight.

Told ya (in general) about those Grizz.

thoughts on the Kings

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