[SI] De'Aaron Fox and the Kings Are Building for the Future

#1
They’ll have to make a decision on coach Luke Walton, whose job security was questioned in a recent piece by The Athletic's Shams Charania and Sam Amick. One factor in Walton’s favor: his growing rapport with Fox, who called him “someone that I’ve grown to trust.”


Jerome Miron/USA TODAY Sports

“If you're not winning as a team, guys get traded, guys who were barely hanging on … get cut and are out the league and coaches get fired,” said Fox, who has seen all of that in his brief career. Perhaps with that in mind, Fox made a broad case for continuity, noting that the best teams are the ones where “players play together longer and develop chemistry, and coaches continue to grow and trust all their players.”

“Everybody wants to continue to grow together and keep this group together, and continue to play for a coach that you trust in,” he said.

Rest of the article:
https://www.si.com/nba/2021/05/10/deaaron-fox-kings-promising-future
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#4
I really like Fox but I’d love to know where he and others stood on Joerger. They started turning the corner but were too soft for a hard nosed coach. Now they have Softy McWalton. Soft roster that Monte needs to continue overturning until he gets more hard nosed players to add to the soft guys.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#5
I really like Fox but I’d love to know where he and others stood on Joerger. They started turning the corner but were too soft for a hard nosed coach. Now they have Softy McWalton. Soft roster that Monte needs to continue overturning until he gets more hard nosed players to add to the soft guys.
I'm not sure we want to confuse actively shouting at a dude on the floor in the middle of a game for being hard-nosed.
Also Joerger loved the ever-loving crap out of WCS for some reason and that dude was as soft as Charmin' two-ply.

Also, the main reason Joerger got fired is that time he decided to try to assume a Thibs-in-Minnesota level of power in the organization and ticked off Vlade.

I do agree we need to get scrappy guys on the roster, which we've sorta done with Moe Harkless and Terence Davis. Unfortunately, a whole other portion of the fanbase didn't like that because it helped this roster win games/lost us a couple of late second round picks that we probably would have sold off for cash considerations anyways.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#6
Yeah, saw this report earlier today too. At the end of the day, we can whine, complain about Walton till we're blue in the face, but if he still has the players respect and has the trust of the franchise player... not sure there's anything you can really do about making a change.
We could but we'd have to dress it up in a certain way like when the Warriors replaced Mark Jackson (who a portion of the roster really really loved) with Steve Kerr (a D'Antoni disciple who was clearly a great fit for their guard-led roster at the time)
 
#7
If what's being continued is suckitude, then continuity isn't awesome.

Be interested in knowing what the realistic alternative to Walton is.
 
#8
I don't understand what he's done to gain the players' trust. He certainly doesn't have the fanbase.

I like Luke the person so I don't want to keep kicking a guy whos down. He's had some challenges but the biggest problem I see is he fails when he is set to succeed and succeeds when he's setup to fail. The biggest hint that something is broken is when the results are so wildly unpredictable.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#9
I don't understand what he's done to gain the players' trust. He certainly doesn't have the fanbase.

I like Luke the person so I don't want to keep kicking a guy whos down. He's had some challenges but the biggest problem I see is he fails when he is set to succeed and succeeds when he's setup to fail. The biggest hint that something is broken is when the results are so wildly unpredictable.
He's a politician and yes, a nice person from all accounts. Can't put it any better than your post and it just is what it is. The major issue is anyone can clearly see that from the outside looking in and the results and historical context of similar situations speak for themselves. The other major issue is they are on the cusp of putting all eggs in the one basket. Next the only thing they have to hold onto is the hope that they are one of those rare instances where they overcome history and common sense. Hey, it's possible. yay! Now maybe Vivek can convince all the players to not take their salaries so he can instead invest it on their behalf in scratch tickets.
 
#10
I really like Fox but I’d love to know where he and others stood on Joerger. They started turning the corner but were too soft for a hard nosed coach. Now they have Softy McWalton. Soft roster that Monte needs to continue overturning until he gets more hard nosed players to add to the soft guys.
Can we get Bonzi and Artest back?

Boy, that team was over way too fast.
 
#11
I don't understand what he's done to gain the players' trust. He certainly doesn't have the fanbase.
Simple. He’s a player’s coach. It’s not at all surprising to discover that many players like and prefer a player’s coach. Especially in this day and age.

Although I doubt you’ll hear Marvin Bagley saying many good things about him. But those Walton has taken a liking to and shown favoritism toward are surely going to like him. I’m sure CoJo absolutely loved him while he was here.

But those that don’t get much PT .... probably not so much.
 
#12
Simple. He’s a player’s coach. It’s not at all surprising to discover that many players like and prefer a player’s coach. Especially in this day and age.

Although I doubt you’ll hear Marvin Bagley saying many good things about him. But those Walton has taken a liking to and shown favoritism toward are surely going to like him. I’m sure CoJo absolutely loved him while he was here.

But those that don’t get much PT .... probably not so much.
If that's all it takes to win Fox over I'm disappointed. And of course the Bagley thing has been huge. Not just the playing time/Coach Bagley issue, but the lack of development. Not all on Walton, and injuries have played a part, but still.
 
#13
The Kings' have been building toward the future for over 20 years.
Patience Grasshoppers.
The Revolving door of players and coaches will never get them there.
 
#14
The Kings' have been building toward the future for over 20 years.
Patience Grasshoppers.
The Revolving door of players and coaches will never get them there.
This is the biggest argument for keeping Walton I have seen aside from him being a players coach. Continuity is not something we’ve had much of in the past 20 years and at this point you’ve invested two years into the guy and he still has money on his contract, unless you find an absolute stud head coach in the offseason that won’t last very long on the market I say you gotta let him have atleast half a season next year before making that move again. Who’s to say after another offseason and training camp they can’t really pick up some steam and Walton’s “system” starts to flourish along with Fox and Hali?
 
#15
This is the biggest argument for keeping Walton I have seen aside from him being a players coach. Continuity is not something we’ve had much of in the past 20 years and at this point you’ve invested two years into the guy and he still has money on his contract, unless you find an absolute stud head coach in the offseason that won’t last very long on the market I say you gotta let him have atleast half a season next year before making that move again. Who’s to say after another offseason and training camp they can’t really pick up some steam and Walton’s “system” starts to flourish along with Fox and Hali?
Counter-argument: What if we invest another 5 years into the stability of keeping Coach Walton and go nowhere? Fox now needs to be traded to start another rebuild. You still need to find a new coach and the fanbase is even less interested in anything you have to sell. I agree that stability is important. Find a good coach and sign them long-term, there's your stability. The guy I've been begging the Kings to hire for the last decade inherited a Hawks team that was 14-20 and has gone 24-11 with them since. That's the kind of coach we need. Not somebody the players like to hang out with, but an actual coach.
 
#16
I really like Fox but I’d love to know where he and others stood on Joerger. They started turning the corner but were too soft for a hard nosed coach. Now they have Softy McWalton. Soft roster that Monte needs to continue overturning until he gets more hard nosed players to add to the soft guys.
According to Jason Jones, it obvious that Joeger had lost the lockeroom his final season. There were rumors he lost the lockeroom in Memphis as well.
 
#17
While it is nice the players don't hate the coach, each other, or playing in Sacramento, if there is anything of substance in this piece, it is the comment on the front office's intentions for the next couple of seasons:

Team officials’ hope is to make steady improvement next season, clean up the cap and hit their stride within the next two to three years, as Fox and Haliburton hit their early primes.
The reporter doesn't say what this is based on - his own thoughts, something Fox said, something from team officials, other media chat, whatever. So take it for what it's worth. But the 'clean up the cap', to me, says someone is going. Whether it's Buddy, Barnes, MBIII, someone else. If the cap is to be cleaned then surely one of our better paid players who is not a cornerstone will be out soon. Others may have a different take. Obviously, Barnes wasn't traded earlier and reporters blow air - so who knows.

The 'steady improvement, hit strides in two or so years' doesn't make it sound like the it will be playoffs or bust next season either. Maybe that's fine. But at some point - the expectation to make the playoffs will be needed to get the best out of the players.
 
#19
I'm not sure we want to confuse actively shouting at a dude on the floor in the middle of a game for being hard-nosed.
Also Joerger loved the ever-loving crap out of WCS for some reason and that dude was as soft as Charmin' two-ply.

Also, the main reason Joerger got fired is that time he decided to try to assume a Thibs-in-Minnesota level of power in the organization and ticked off Vlade.

I do agree we need to get scrappy guys on the roster, which we've sorta done with Moe Harkless and Terence Davis. Unfortunately, a whole other portion of the fanbase didn't like that because it helped this roster win games/lost us a couple of late second round picks that we probably would have sold off for cash considerations anyways.
let’s be clear. Those of us who didn’t like it were frustrated because winning teams have a prescribed order of doing things:

1) acquire your stars
2) fill in around your stars with role players

the Kings have consistently done things in reverse order which has directly contributed to them missing the play-offs for a record setting durations.

Monte’s moves were opposed not because we didn’t like TD or Mo. They were opposed because our front court lacks anything remotely resembling a star. Monte’s move reflected a continuation of the Kings backwards strategic approach. You would think after 15 plus years of ineptitude this team would have figured it out.
 
#20
Can we get Bonzi and Artest back?

Boy, that team was over way too fast.

i heard a story about that team and maybe someone knows if it is true or not.

story:

the kings offered bonzi 35 million over four years (great money at the time) but bonzi turned it down.

at which point, artest said, "offer him however much more he needs and take it out of my salary"

kings didn't do it and bonzi wound up signing a two year deal at 1 million per with houston, then was so not interested that they had to cut him.

now, to the subject of this thread - fox's love affair with luke.

1) fox is a max player only because he was in the right place at the right time.

2) now that he has been given money that he will never live up to, the kings should try to find some other team who will give up value for fox (AND take on that salary), which might be impossible, but they should try.

3) the kicker for me was hearing (again, not certain this is true) that fox refused to get vaccinated and he (and the team) paid the price. i don't think it's unfair to say that (if this is true), he let his teammates down and his coach apparently lacked the influence to persuade fox otherwise. that bodes poorly for the future.

4) i listened to luke's press conference after last night's game. no one even ASKED about the lack of whiteside useage, let alone brought up fox's shameful and selfish actions. bunch of suck-ups if you ask me.

5) where would we be if we had offered jimmy butler the max when he was shopping and then placed buddy and de'aaron in their proper slots (much lower)?
 
#22
i heard a story about that team and maybe someone knows if it is true or not.

story:

the kings offered bonzi 35 million over four years (great money at the time) but bonzi turned it down.

at which point, artest said, "offer him however much more he needs and take it out of my salary"

kings didn't do it and bonzi wound up signing a two year deal at 1 million per with houston, then was so not interested that they had to cut him.

now, to the subject of this thread - fox's love affair with luke.

1) fox is a max player only because he was in the right place at the right time.

2) now that he has been given money that he will never live up to, the kings should try to find some other team who will give up value for fox (AND take on that salary), which might be impossible, but they should try.

3) the kicker for me was hearing (again, not certain this is true) that fox refused to get vaccinated and he (and the team) paid the price. i don't think it's unfair to say that (if this is true), he let his teammates down and his coach apparently lacked the influence to persuade fox otherwise. that bodes poorly for the future.

4) i listened to luke's press conference after last night's game. no one even ASKED about the lack of whiteside useage, let alone brought up fox's shameful and selfish actions. bunch of suck-ups if you ask me.

5) where would we be if we had offered jimmy butler the max when he was shopping and then placed buddy and de'aaron in their proper slots (much lower)?
Sacramento has by far the softest press in the NBA.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#23
let’s be clear. Those of us who didn’t like it were frustrated because winning teams have a prescribed order of doing things:

1) acquire your stars
2) fill in around your stars with role players

the Kings have consistently done things in reverse order which has directly contributed to them missing the play-offs for a record setting durations.

Monte’s moves were opposed not because we didn’t like TD or Mo. They were opposed because our front court lacks anything remotely resembling a star. Monte’s move reflected a continuation of the Kings backwards strategic approach. You would think after 15 plus years of ineptitude this team would have figured it out.
Perhaps given time, Monte can address any roster issues. Last time I checked, fans love Holmes, Hassan was good enough to start on playoff teams but here Walton wouldn’t really play him, got Mo so Barnes could play PF more.........and he’s only had one abbreviated off-season and one trade deadline where he actually improved the talent and fit on the roster. The roster is trending in the right direction.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#25
Joeger was good at rubbing people the wrong way. He had trouble with the team, the front office, and the media. I think it is safe to say the blame is likely on him.
The blame was absolutely on him. Especially because the exact same thing happened in his other stop. He’s a solid coach. He’s a coach that gets vastly overrated around here because we’ve been terrible for 16 years. He isn’t worth the problems he has with every single person he comes in contact with.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#27
The blame was absolutely on him. Especially because the exact same thing happened in his other stop. He’s a solid coach. He’s a coach that gets vastly overrated around here because we’ve been terrible for 16 years. He isn’t worth the problems he has with every single person he comes in contact with.
But, in his last stop, he got Memphis into the playoffs when they set a record for lost games due to injury. It was Coach of the Year worthy. He had the team trending in the right direction. I don’t think he’s overrated but clearly he’s not a Softy McWalton.
 
#28
Anyone who has trouble getting along with Vlade should take a look in the mirror.
I'm personally not of fan of people pleasers and yes men. They seem one step away from outright lying and come off as disingenuous. I dont know if Vlade fits that bill, Id have to actually meet him and talk to him for a minute, but...
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#29
But, in his last stop, he got Memphis into the playoffs when they set a record for lost games due to injury. It was Coach of the Year worthy. He had the team trending in the right direction. I don’t think he’s overrated but clearly he’s not a Softy McWalton.
That team went 1-10 to close the season so it was really more a matter of the Grizzlies winning enough games before everyone got hurt than some sort of miraculous coaching job on Joerger’s part.