Thinking we can entice Rondo may be moot

[Mike]

I agree with most of what you said. And I DO think Cousins' on court attitude drags the team's energy level down more than some would like to believe.

But I don't know if Cousins absolutely has to have a second star alongside him. If he does, I don't know where that guy is coming from. Maybe the Sixers land the #1 pick and the Kings get #2 and land Ingram and he becomes that guy. Or Dunn falls to their pick and is a stud. I honestly don't see a lot of star potential in this draft and I can't see the Kings picking up a star level player via trade or free agency.

But maybe it's as simple as surrounding Cousins with shooters (who are at least average or ideally plus defenders) and giving him more room to operate - to either score or pass out for easy looks.

Perhaps if we look at what the Hornets and Grizzlies have done with their rosters as a template that could work with Cousins at the center position. They work on defense and solid shooters. Some of their players aren't particularly fancy, but they get the best out of them and they play hard as a team. We've got our center piece, build around that with good players and that play as a team not individuals filing up a stat sheet and we'd arguably be more competitive. Granted this approach does raise the ceiling question it's an approach that would work without having to find or develop a second star.

 

[KingMilz]

Perhaps if we look at what the Hornets and Grizzlies have done with their rosters as a template that could work with Cousins at the center position. They work on defense and solid shooters. Some of their players aren't particularly fancy, but they get the best out of them and they play hard as a team. We've got our center piece, build around that with good players and that play as a team not individuals filing up a stat sheet and we'd arguably be more competitive. Granted this approach does raise the ceiling question it's an approach that would work without having to find or develop a second star.

The Hornets are not a good example they have benched Jefferson and have found more success running the play through Kemba.

 

[Sac.1989]

The Hornets are not a good example they have benched Jefferson and have found more success running the play through Kemba.

point is they play Zeller in the middle with good solid defenders and outside shooters in; Lin, Batum, Frank, Walker and Lee - none of which are amazing in their own right but as a unit they do a really good job.

Charlotte's upswing is as much down to the coaching as anything, Steve Clifford has done a great job of setting up a system which emphasizes both sides of the ball and their acquisitions have fit that model. Jordan was savaged by the fan base for going hard at Lin but that they are seeing the value in their guard rotation now. MKG is injured and their playing great basketball.

 

[randymoss1881]

The Hornets are not a good example they have benched Jefferson and have found more success running the play through Kemba.

But they also went with basically all shooters if Al was still good he'd start but he's not that good now. Last year they were at 19 attempts on 3s bottom 5, this year there at 29 attempts which is 3rd in the league. With a dominate big we need shooters around him good thing we were so linked to Anderson.

 

[Mike]

The Hornets are not a good example they have benched Jefferson and have found more success running the play through Kemba.

They are still a good example because if you look at Courtney Lee and Marvin Williams' stats, their starting SG and PF, they don't jump out. But when you watch them and look deep into what they do, they are very good two way players that have played a big role in their ascent since the beginning of February. Likewise, Zellers addition to the starting line up has paid dividends. And their off season addition of Batum has been a big boost for them. Overall they are a very solid all round starting line up, and if we built a similar starting line up with the difference being Cousins at center, that would be a very competitive and tough team.

Now ok they run the offense through Kemba, but drafting a Kemba Walker type point guard or signing one is feasible. Likewise, signing or trading for players that can do the same type of role as Courtney Lee and Marvin Williams is feasible. Finding a Batum type player is more difficult but it is possible. Their starting line up players as a team, they play defense, and are efficient at both ends. We can take a page out of their book and try to bring some of their concepts on board here.

 

[Bricklayer]

We're still looking at this backward.

The offense could stand to get better. Adding shooters would obviously help.

But for 10 straight years now, a decade, long enough for roughly 1/7, 14%, of the Kings fanbase to actually have died and passed on, along with something like a billion other people on the planet, we have lost and lost and lost because of our DEFENSE. Any and all suggested fixes which don't look at that absolutely first are missing the point. We could be a .500 team with the offense as its run today. Hell, give us the Spurs defense and we could be a 50 win team with the offense as run today. But we won't ever be a .500 team with any defense we've run since Adelman left town.

 

[KingMilz]

They are still a good example because if you look at Courtney Lee and Marvin Williams' stats, their starting SG and PF, they don't jump out. But when you watch them and look deep into what they do, they are very good two way players that have played a big role in their ascent since the beginning of February. Likewise, Zellers addition to the starting line up has paid dividends. And their off season addition of Batum has been a big boost for them. Overall they are a very solid all round starting line up, and if we built a similar starting line up with the difference being Cousins at center, that would be a very competitive and tough team.

Now ok they run the offense through Kemba, but drafting a Kemba Walker type point guard or signing one is feasible. Likewise, signing or trading for players that can do the same type of role as Courtney Lee and Marvin Williams is feasible. Finding a Batum type player is more difficult but it is possible. Their starting line up players as a team, they play defense, and are efficient at both ends. We can take a page out of their book and try to bring some of their concepts on board here.

But we tried that with Isaiah Thomas/Cousins and they didn't really make each other or the team better. Can you have that type of PG? Finding a Batum (unless we sign Batum) type player is near impossible since all the SF's that have playmaking/defense and can score are super rare the only other one aside from Batum are the elite PG13/LB/KD/Butler/Kawahi and Gordon Hayward no other SF has all three skills at a good level. Batum has elite skills without the elite mind set you need to be a top tier player so I don't really se e it as a possibility unless you get a 3 and D guy minus the playmaking.

I agree with you about the type of team you want but I have a hard time seeing it right now and after 6 years I still don't know what team will work around Cousins. But I have always said we need to surround him (if we don't trade him) with high energy guys who scrap all the time (obviously skills like shooting are nice as well) since he's not a high energy type player. I'd be looking at guys like Lance Thomas/Kent Bazemore/Beverly these types.

 

[Mike]

But we tried that with Isaiah Thomas/Cousins and they didn't really make each other or the team better. Can you have that type of PG? Finding a Batum (unless we sign Batum) type player is near impossible since all the SF's that have playmaking/defense and can score are super rare the only other one aside from Batum are the elite PG13/LB/KD/Butler/Kawahi and Gordon Hayward no other SF has all three skills at a good level. Batum has elite skills without the elite mind set you need to be a top tier player so I don't really se e it as a possibility unless you get a 3 and D guy minus the playmaking.

I agree with you about the type of team you want but I have a hard time seeing it right now and after 6 years I still don't know what team will work around Cousins. But I have always said we need to surround him (if we don't trade him) with high energy guys who scrap all the time (obviously skills like shooting are nice as well) since he's not a high energy type player. I'd be looking at guys like Lance Thomas/Kent Bazemore/Beverly these types.

IT did a good job for us. The problem was we never really respected him or appreciated him enough. Likewise we had inefficient play from our SG, SF, and PF positions which didn't help either. That aside, our front office decided that he was a sixth man, not a starting point guard, and ultimately went with Collison. I think we could have run an efficient offense and defense with IT at point guard. But it's becoming increasingly clear that finding the right guys to support Cousins is not a straightforward task. In someways it wouldn't surprise me if we don't find the right combination and he heads off to another team via trade or free agency.

 

[ppine]

If you think the Kings were weak this year, imagine them without Rondo.

 

[ESP47]

I think we make too much about putting the right guys around Cousins. A good coach would make what we have right now work. Just because Rudy is a good 1 on 1 player, doesn't mean he can't slash to the basket when Cousins is being double teamed. Rondo doesn't have to freelance half the game on defense. Belinelli doesn't have to brick shots off of screens all game. This is all coaching. Other than perimeter defense, I don't see any glaring holes as far as our players go. This isn't a championship roster but they should be sniffing the playoffs. We have a handful of bigs who can defend. A couple of solid SF's and guards who can shoot. Offensively, Cousins is set up as well as he ever has been since he came into the league.

 

[Amit149]

If you think the Kings were weak this year, imagine them without Rondo.

Well since we were pretty much he same in term of winning precentage under Karl last year and the only changes are KK for JT, WCS for Landry, Acy for D-Will, Marco for Stauskas and Curry for Ray (and most will say all of this are upgrades) than I would have to say that I doubt we would have looked any different without him...

 

[funkykingston]

If you think the Kings were weak this year, imagine them without Rondo.

The Kings are on pace to win 2 or maybe 3 more games than they did last year.

Last year, when Cousins missed 10 straight games with meningitis and then was shut down for the last 6 or 7 games of the year.

Last year, a year where the Kings fired Malone, tailspun under Corbin and then hired Karl to turn things around going 11-19 to finish the season.

If after the absolute disaster of a season that was last year Rondo's addition only meant 2 or 3 more wins then I'm not sure that justifies giving him a $15-$18 million a year contract.

 

[hrdboild]

The Kings are on pace to win 2 or maybe 3 more games than they did last year.

Last year, when Cousins missed 10 straight games with meningitis and then was shut down for the last 6 or 7 games of the year.

Last year, a year where the Kings fired Malone, tailspun under Corbin and then hired Karl to turn things around going 11-19 to finish the season.

If after the absolute disaster of a season that was last year Rondo's addition only meant 2 or 3 more wins then I'm not sure that justifies giving him a $15-$18 million a year contract.

Looking at it in terms of simple wins and losses can be misleading though. We're a very different team this year. Last year we lead the league in FTAs per game (with 4.3 more per game than 2nd place Houston), this year we dropped down to 5th. Also we were near the bottom for 3PT attempts (we shot half as many per game as Houston) and 3pt%. We're inching up the board in both categories this year. Our .354 team percentage is 13th in the league this year and we've moved up from 28th to 21st in attempts per game.

The big change is in assists though -- formerly an Achilles heel for Sacramento teams in the post-Adelman era. We were 26th last year, dead last the year before that, keep going back and we're consistently one of the worst 10 in the league until this year when we're all the way up to 4th. TOs are still a problem but we only went up from 15.6 TO per game last year to 15.7 TO per game this year while APG increased from 20.3 to 24.6 and there has been a corresponding increase in FG% from .455 to .463 -- good enough for 6th in the league.

So that's the good news. Everyone knows this already, but the bad news is all defense. Our opponents shot .456 from the field last year and .349 from behind the arc. This year they're shooting .463 from the field and .365 from behind the arc -- which sounds preposterously high but 6 teams have been worse this year. And while our overall rebounds have remained about the same, we were +3 rebounds per game last year against our opponents (3rd in the league) and this year we're at -0.3 (14th).

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that the overall record may not have changed much but the way we're winning and losing has certainly changed. Last year it was fairly obvious that we needed to improve our 3pt shooting and opponent FG%, and find a way to produce more high-percentage assisted baskets without sacrificing our strengths in rebounding and FTAs. We managed to accomplish 2 of those but we didn't maintain our position on the boards and we weren't quite as strong at getting to the line. So the real question regarding Rondo isn't so much "how come he didn't make us better?" because his impact is obvious in the team stats. The bigger questions are "can he get better defensively next year?" and "who can we get to replace him?"

 

[funkykingston]

Looking at it in terms of simple wins and losses can be misleading though. We're a very different team this year. Last year we lead the league in FTAs per game (with 4.3 more per game than 2nd place Houston), this year we dropped down to 5th. Also we were near the bottom for 3PT attempts (we shot half as many per game as Houston) and 3pt%. We're inching up the board in both categories this year. Our .354 team percentage is 13th in the league this year and we've moved up from 28th to 21st in attempts per game.

The big change is in assists though -- formerly an Achilles heel for Sacramento teams in the post-Adelman era. We were 26th last year, dead last the year before that, keep going back and we're consistently one of the worst 10 in the league until this year when we're all the way up to 4th. TOs are still a problem but we only went up from 15.6 TO per game last year to 15.7 TO per game this year while APG increased from 20.3 to 24.6 and there has been a corresponding increase in FG% from .455 to .463 -- good enough for 6th in the league.

So that's the good news. Everyone knows this already, but the bad news is all defense. Our opponents shot .456 from the field last year and .349 from behind the arc. This year they're shooting .463 from the field and .365 from behind the arc -- which sounds preposterously high but 6 teams have been worse this year. And while our overall rebounds have remained about the same, we were +3 rebounds per game last year against our opponents (3rd in the league) and this year we're at -0.3 (14th).

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that the overall record may not have changed much but the way we're winning and losing has certainly changed. Last year it was fairly obvious that we needed to improve our 3pt shooting and opponent FG%, and find a way to produce more high-percentage assisted baskets without sacrificing our strengths in rebounding and FTAs. We managed to accomplish 2 of those but we didn't maintain our position on the boards and we weren't quite as strong at getting to the line. So the real question regarding Rondo isn't so much "how come he didn't make us better?" because his impact is obvious in the team stats. The bigger questions are "can he get better defensively next year?" and "who can we get to replace him?"

Yeah, it was a simplistic view, but I think I've become frustrated with the idea that the Kings definitely need to resign Rondo, which would require most of the team's caproom. I think Karl has done a terrible job this season but he's not the sole reason the Kings are yet again only going to head to the lottery. And the notion that Vlade should lock up this roster for $89 million makes no sense to me. Changes need to be made.

If I had any confidence that Rondo could become a plus defender then I might be okay with the idea of bringing him back. But as it stands he's one of the worst PG defenders in the league, he's still a poor shooter (and can't be counted on from the FT line in crunch time) and he dominates the ball and will be 30 years old at the end of this season. The Kings seem to always have these players that don't fit well and require special circumstances for them to succeed. When the requirement that some throw out for Rondo to work properly is that he needs a lights out shooter next to him who is also a lockdown defender and can cover Rondo's man etc etc it makes me wonder why you'd pay a guy with such limitations huge amounts of money to return.

 

[Mike]

If you think the Kings were weak this year, imagine them without Rondo.

Last Season
Overall Record: 29 - 53 (.353)
With Collison: 16 - 29 (.355)
With Sessions: 2 - 5 (.285)
With McCallum: 11 - 19 (.366)

This Season
Overall Record: 27 - 43 (.385)
With Rondo: 26 - 40 (.399)
Without Collison: 1 - 3 (.250)

When you look at the win percentages of our starting point guards over the past two season, there isn't a huge difference between what Collison and Rondo. Last season we were on pace for 29 wins with Collison as our starting point guard giving us 16.1 points and 5.6 assists per game. This season with Rondo we would be on pace for 32 wins, and he gives us 11.7 points and 11.7 assists per game. For all those assists the difference is a projected plus 3 wins. So Rondo hasn't really made us much stronger this season than we was when Darren Collison was starting. Heck, based off projected records Rondo would only be plus 2 wins over McCallum. So for all stat sheet filling this season, and name recognition, Rajon Rondo has not really helped get us to that next level.

But maybe we've got better in another way...

Last season we finished scored 101.3 points per game (14/30) and conceded 105.0 points per game (28/30). This season we average 106.4 points per game (03/30) and concede 109.2 points per game (30/30). So while we have gained five points on offense, we also concede four points more on defense. Our pace last season was ranked 8th, this season it is ranked 1st in the league. Our offensive rating last season was 14th, this season it's fallen two places to 16th; and our defensive rating was 27th last season, this season it's improved to 22nd. So some things have got a bit better, other things have gone a bit worse. But what this ultimately shows is that the difference between Rondo at point and one of the three we used last season is negligible.

Even if we just compare the team between Rondo and Collison, we averaged 109.5 points per game and conceded 113.5 points per game when Collison has filled in for Rondo. So offensively we didn't lose anything when Rondo hasn't played because the rest of the team still fill up the stat sheet. Granted we are pretty much four points worse on defense, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Rondo is still an elite defensive player because he's not. All this proves is that this team has functioned with Darren Collison as the starting point guard. In theory all we would need to do is solidify the SG and PF positions with more efficient two way players (eg. Courtney Lee and Marvin Williams types), and possibly the SF position as well. If we upgrade those three starting positions with better two way players next off season, then we could slot Collison and Cousins into the remaining two starting positions be competitive going forwards. We don't need Rondo. We can be a play off team with Collison or that type of shoot first point guard.

 

[Larry89]

I am pretty sure we are a significantly worse team without Rondo.

 

[Mike]

I am pretty sure we are a significantly worse team without Rondo.

With our existing line up?

I don't think we would be significantly different in terms of wins or position in the standings. We have to accept that we are a sub-.500 team with a talented, but flawed roster. Will a new head coach take us to that next level? I am not sure because we expected George Karl to do that for us, he hasn't. So ultimately we need to look at the starting line up and make changes, and frankly, we might be better off letting Rondo walk. For me, we need to find the right combination pronto because we need to be a play off team the next two seasons trending towards top four status to ensure we have a chance at getting Cousins to sign a new contract. Maybe Rondo is part of the answer, but I am not convinced a big contract for Rondo is best way forwards for this team.

 

[206Fan]

Rondo's game doesn't fit with Cousins very much. He's an extremely good playmaker, but he can't shoot anywhere outside of 15ft. You may say, he's making 34-35% of his 3s..yes that's true, but that comes at the expense of sagging and doubling other guys. Opposing teams are just daring him to take the 3pter. His 3pt shooting may be a fluke since he's only converting 58% at the line. On defense, he's extremely poor. It comes from not putting in effort.

So question is...what makes people think that he'll suddenly decide that he's going to play defense after we give him a 3-4year contract for around 13million+? Hell, this was a "prove it" year for him, and he decided defense wasn't important enough.

If people forget, Rondo will be 30 at the start of next season. Most of his game has depended on his athleticism and quickness. How much gas will he have left in that tank 2 years down the road?


I just don't think bringing back Rondo is a good idea at all.

He's at his peak/decline stage and has already decided he doesn't want to play defense anymore.

 

[The_Jamal]

I am pretty sure we are a significantly worse team without Rondo.

I'm pretty sure your wrong.

49% TS on 10.9 FGA/game is not helpful, it's downright awful for a guard.

He has a 25% TOV rate this season, that's downright awful for any position, much less the guy running the team

the 48% Ast rate is excellent; but it comes at a cost of him dominating the ball

Offense with him ON court:

105.8 Ortg
51.3% eFG
16.9% TOV
64.0% AST
49.9% TRB

Offense with him OFF court:

105.5 Ortg
49.9% eFG
14.8% TOV
56.5% AST
49.6 TRB

Defense with him ON court:

109.5 Ortg
52.4% eFG
60.9% AST
15.7% TOV

Defense with him OFF court:

107.4 Ortg
51.5% eFG
55.4% AST
15.7% TOV


Not seeing how any of these lead you to believe we're "significantly worse" without Rondo. Made no impact offensively and made us worse defensively. That isn't a guy who's worth $15-$18mil a year

 

[hrdboild]

The issue though with the Rondo/Collison comparison is that we only have Collison for one more year. Yes he's a great value at 5 million a year but he'll probably cost a lot more than that to re-sign with his success here the past 2 years and the escalating salary cap. If the salary cap continues going up as expected he may not be any cheaper to re-sign than Rondo and he's only 6 months younger. If we call Rondo too old and too expensive, what happens in a year when Collison's contract ends? So it's not really a matter of Rondo at 12-15 million or Collison at 5 million. That may be true of next season, but starting PG is a pretty important position to get right. I don't think you punt a successful one to save $10 million for 1 year. Age and size of contract shouldn't be the only consideration here -- it should be about overall fit with DeMarcus and future competitive potential.

Again, I think there is legitimate reason to question Rondo's viability as a defender going forward based only on what we've seen this year. But it's also true that he brings a lot of positives that we're not going to get with another player. There is some buzz about Ricky Rubio being available but anyone who thinks Rondo can't shoot will probably pass out when they look at Rubio's career shooting percentages. Mike Conley is going to be very tough to pry out of Memphis. Ty Lawson was a train wreck this year. Jeremy Lin is the only other free agent PG on the market and he's an interesting player who hasn't had much success as a full-time starter. Theoretically passing on Rondo gives us money to sign someone else but who?

 

[Oldman]

You can argue about who would fit best with cousins on offense but the problem since day 1 has always been defense. Acquiring Willie was a step in the right direction but then 2 steps back by getting Belineli, Rondo and Karl. I want players that have a fetish for playing defense. A defensive point guard, a defensive shooting guard, a defensive small forward and a defensive coach. There's no doubt we'd be in the playoffs if we had a top 15 defense. Only then can we win

 

[Mike]

The issue though with the Rondo/Collison comparison is that we only have Collison for one more year. Yes he's a great value at 5 million a year but he'll probably cost a lot more than that to re-sign with his success here the past 2 years and the escalating salary cap. If the salary cap continues going up as expected he may not be any cheaper to re-sign than Rondo and he's only 6 months younger. If we call Rondo too old and too expensive, what happens in a year when Collison's contract ends? So it's not really a matter of Rondo at 12-15 million or Collison at 5 million. That may be true of next season, but starting PG is a pretty important position to get right. I don't think you punt a successful one to save $10 million for 1 year. Age and size of contract shouldn't be the only consideration here -- it should be about overall fit with DeMarcus and future competitive potential.

Again, I think there is legitimate reason to question Rondo's viability as a defender going forward based only on what we've seen this year. But it's also true that he brings a lot of positives that we're not going to get with another player. There is some buzz about Ricky Rubio being available but anyone who thinks Rondo can't shoot will probably pass out when they look at Rubio's career shooting percentages. Mike Conley is going to be very tough to pry out of Memphis. Ty Lawson was a train wreck this year. Jeremy Lin is the only other free agent PG on the market and he's an interesting player who hasn't had much success as a full-time starter. Theoretically passing on Rondo gives us money to sign someone else but who?

We could potentially draft a player like Kris Dunn, Jamal Murray, or Denounte Murray. Develop them and use Collison as the starter next season. If they impress they could end up taking the starting role before the season is out, or take over the following season. Then there's always the chance Collison does well enough to earn an extension.

Passing on Rondo could help us pursue players to solidify our starting line up in pursuit of becoming more efficient on both ends. It won't be easy, but we do need to change the culture of this team to become better defensively and improve our all round consistency. I'm not convinced Rondo at this stage of his career offers that, and to an extent, I'm not sure Rudy Gay does either. So move them two on, then then retool the line up. Unless of course Cousins wants Rondo and Gay, then just improve the SG and PF position.

 

[hrdboild]

You can argue about who would fit best with cousins on offense but the problem since day 1 has always been defense. Acquiring Willie was a step in the right direction but then 2 steps back by getting Belineli, Rondo and Karl. I want players that have a fetish for playing defense. A defensive point guard, a defensive shooting guard, a defensive small forward and a defensive coach. There's no doubt we'd be in the playoffs if we had a top 15 defense. Only then can we win

I'm on board with that plan, I've always been on board with that plan ... but who are the defensive PGs in the league we're replacing Rondo with? Westbrook, Lowry, Wall, Bledsoe -- those are the standout defenders at the position and all of them are pretty well entrenched with their current teams. Patrick Beverly is signed for 3 more years on a very team friendly deal in Houston. Elfrid Payton has 2 more years on his rookie deal and then becomes a restricted free agent. Michael Carter-Williams and Ricky Rubio might be available but they can't shoot. Neither can Marcus Smart.

Also, Rondo made 4 all-defense teams from 2009 to 1012. He's currently 8th in the league in steals per game and 2nd in rebounds at the PG position. On paper he's got as much defensive potential as anyone else who might be on the PG wishlist. I figured he would at least be average this year and on paper he has been (defensive rating put him right in the middle of our team range: currently 103-113 with Rondo at 108). Maybe the eye test tells a different story, but then you need to evaluate potential replacements by the same criteria. What if we bring in a different PG from a great defensive team like a Jeff Teague and they're just as bad for us? He's got solid defensive ratings on paper too but he's one of the lower rated players on his team by defense rating (97-105 is the range for everyone on Atlanta and Jeff Teague is at 104 this year).

Sometimes I feel like "change for change's sake" becomes a kind of magic salve to all of our problems in these off-season discussions. You don't just acquire a defensive starting PG because you want to. There are very few standout defenders available at any position at any time because teams tend to hang onto those players and at the PG position they also have to be capable of running an offense.

 

[funkykingston]

I posted this in another thread:

If I were to make a blueprint of how I would build a team around Cousins it would look like this (I'm not imagining any particular players):

Out of the PG, SG and SF, two should essentially be 3&D guys. Plus shooters who are good at catch and shoots and who are good to great defenders. One of those three should be the secondary scorer and a guy who can step up and be the #1 guy in Cousins' absence. Rudy is not that guy. When he is forced to be the focal point of the offense, his efficiency plummets. He also doesn't play particularly well off Cousins.

At PF I'd want a stretch 4 and also an athletic defender/shotblocker who can also get out and finish in transition and who has a reliable midrange shot. It'd be great to get both in one package but there are very few guys that fit that bill. The defender/shotblocker is actually less of a need than it was during Cousins' first two seasons when he wasn't a defensive anchor. But it's still a good thing to have.

Off the bench I'd want a PG that was a change of pace from my starter. If the starter is a smaller guy that tilts offensive I'd want a bigger backup that tilts defensive etc. I'd want at least one defensive wing that I could put on the other team's hot hand SG or SF. I'd also like a wing that could do a little of everything off the bench and help lead the second unit. I'd want at least one nasty, semi-dirty player who can get under the other team's skin. And a big body who can guard opposing post players when Cuz is on the bench or when he's out for that game.

There are a lot of ways to build that team. But the Kings haven't ever really done it. Vlade has shown more signs than PDA that he "gets it" so I'm hopeful but we'll see.

That secondary player could be a PG like Lillard (or McCollum the way he's been playing) or a SG like Klay Thompson or Jimmy Butler or a SF like Gordon Hayward or Kawhi Leonard. A good shooter who can play well off Cousins and who has the ability to step up and be the primary scorer when needed. And yes, all those guys would be too hard to trade for now, but it's worth noting that the Kings had the chance to draft EVERY single one of them. They only get a pass on Hayward because that was the year they took Cousins.

After that, guys like Collison, Patrick Beverly, Trevor Ariza, Kent Bazemore, etc fill out the other two positions, WCS is the athletic big, sign Ryan Anderson as the stretch four. Keep Koufos as the big body or trade him and sign a guy like Cole Aldrich, draft a kid like Valentine or sign a multidimensional guy for the bench, and fill out the rest of the roster with pieces that fit.

It's not brain surgery. But still the Kings insist on trying to fill round holes with square pegs.

 

[hrdboild]

We could potentially draft a player like Kris Dunn, Jamal Murray, or Denounte Murray. Develop them and use Collison as the starter next season. If they impress they could end up taking the starting role before the season is out, or take over the following season. Then there's always the chance Collison does well enough to earn an extension.

Passing on Rondo could help us pursue players to solidify our starting line up in pursuit of becoming more efficient on both ends. It won't be easy, but we do need to change the culture of this team to become better defensively and improve our all round consistency. I'm not convinced Rondo at this stage of his career offers that, and to an extent, I'm not sure Rudy Gay does either. So move them two on, then then retool the line up. Unless of course Cousins wants Rondo and Gay, then just improve the SG and PF position.

Potentially yes, but then we're relying on a rookie again to make the playoffs. When has that worked for us in the past? I think it's a path forward but it carries just as much risk as building around Rondo/Gay/Cousins does. It's a different kind of risk and you have the fallback of rebuilding around your young players when it doesn't work out, but we don't know that Dunn, J. Murray, or D. Murray will be any more successful than McLemore or Stauskas before them. I'm in favor of drafting a young guard to develop for the future regardless but if 10 years of Kings futility is anything to go on, making them a part of your plans for next season is probably a bad idea.

And the second part is really where I'm trying to impart some big-picture perspective. Yes we could solidify our starting lineup with different players but who are those players? How do we become more efficient on both ends while competing with 20+ other teams for a few prized free agents? Remember when Plan A was to re-sign Tyreke and lure Andre Igoudala? That lasted less than 24 hours and instead we ended up with Isaiah Thomas and Rudy Gay. Remember when a recently injured Wesley Matthews took less money to go to Dallas? We ended up with Marco Belinelli instead. What if the 2 or 3 elite defensive players available see better chances to win somewhere else? We're not going to fix all of our problems in the draft and it's really hard to get other teams to trade you good players without giving up something you don't want to give up.

This is all just rhetorical I suppose. You're not wrong of course. But I think there's a decent chance we give up on Rondo and still get worse defensively next season if we're not careful. We have no idea what a full season of Seth Curry as a starter would bring. Same goes for any rookie. Collison was solid last year but we were a bad defensive team with him at PG too. More than anything I'm suggesting we keep our options open. Rondo isn't a perfect player, but he may be worth his next contract value and he may end up being a better overall player than anyone else we can get this off-season.

 

[Showtime]

We're still looking at this backward.

The offense could stand to get better. Adding shooters would obviously help.

But for 10 straight years now, a decade, long enough for roughly 1/7, 14%, of the Kings fanbase to actually have died and passed on, along with something like a billion other people on the planet, we have lost and lost and lost because of our DEFENSE. Any and all suggested fixes which don't look at that absolutely first are missing the point. We could be a .500 team with the offense as its run today. Hell, give us the Spurs defense and we could be a 50 win team with the offense as run today. But we won't ever be a .500 team with any defense we've run since Adelman left town.

Since this is a Rondo topic, almost every critic of re-signing him has brought up the defensive side of the floor.

 

[gunks]

If you think the Kings were weak this year, imagine them without Rondo.

In DC we trust.

Not that I want us to lose Rondo, but I'd prefer that to an overpay.

 

[hrdboild]

In DC we trust.

Not that I want us to lose Rondo, but I'd prefer that to an overpay.

I understand the sentiment, but I don't think this really applies anymore. We're not re-building, we're not trying to stash cap space for a big signing -- we're trying to compete for a playoff spot. Saving money doesn't really factor into it anymore. Rondo is either the PG we want leading us into the playoffs for the next 4-6 years or he's not. If he is, you have to pay him whatever his market value is. If he's not, then we need to find out who is and we need to get them locked up on a long-term deal. Changing out the lead guard every year or so, like changing the head coach, is not conducive to building a winning team.

 

[Bricklayer]

In DC we trust.

Not that I want us to lose Rondo, but I'd prefer that to an overpay.

In this offseason nobody is even going to know what an overpay is. Prepare to have your head spinning with ridiculous numbers. Boogie will be lucky to be in the Top 50 in salary by the time this summer is done.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Would rather let him walk and make a run at Conley