Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Welcome to Study #2 of The Teams of the Great Centers series (Study #1 may be found here: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/the-teams-of-the-great-centers-study-1-the-96-spurs.60134/ ).
Study #2 is an ambitious comparison, and also the oldest team I will be looking at. Not only is it at the dawn of the modern NBA era (especially 3pt shooting etc.), but it is at the dawn of my own NBA awakening as well (one of my very first NBA debates was out on a playground jungle gym at recess with 5 or 6 other kids arguing over whether the Celtics, Sixers, or Lakers were going to win the title this year -- and no, none of us had a ****ing clue what we were talking about. I imagine it a lot like a Kings front office pow wow today -- lots of nuh uhs! and yeah huhs!).
Still the '83 Sixers were a great team (as in 65 win, won the title, considered one of the GOAT teams great) which AGAIN had a notably similar structure to the one we have right now. So let's break them down:
Study #2 -- The 1982-83 Sixers
Team Record: 65-17 (Won NBA Finals)
Coach: Billy Cunningham
Pace: 15th of 23
Off Rating: 5th of 23
Def Rating: 5th of 23
A) Roster and Roles
C - Moses Malone (#1 option)
PF - Mark Iavaroni (roleplaying spot starter) / Bobby Jones (defensive ace)
SF - Julius Erving (#2 option)
SG - Andrew Toney (shooter/#3 option)
PG - Maurice Cheeks (distributor/defender)
B) Frontcourt
Moses won the MVP that season, Dr. J was aging but still potent. Iavoroni was a short minute defensive type roleplayer, but the real defense came off the bench in the person of Bobby Jones as a Kirilenko type 6th man. The structure was eyepoppingly similar to our own, minus the Kirilenko type off the bench. Instead we've got a Derrick Williams or Carl Landry. But of all the legendary centers, Cuz might rememble a more skilled Moses more than any other. And Rudy is as close to a poor man's version of the gliding pterodactyl that was Dr. J as any player currently in the league. For purposes of the stats comparison I'm going to treat JT as our main starter this season:
Consider '83 Sixers starting frontcourt:
C - MMalone: 37.5min 24.5pts (.578TS%) 15.3reb 1.3ast 1.1stl 2.0blk 3.4TO
PF - Iavoroni: 20.2min 5.1pts (.502TS%) 4.1reb 1.0ast 0.4stl 0.6blk 1.7TO
SF - JErving: 33.6min 21.4pts (.566TS%) 6.8reb 3.7ast 1.6stl 1.8blk 2.7TO
Kings '15 starting frontcourt:
C - DeCousins: 33.9min 23.7pts (.551TS%) 12.3reb 3.2ast 1.4stl 1.6blk 4.2TO
PF - Thompsn: 24.4min 5.8pts (.506TS%) 6.3reb 0.9ast 0.4stl 0.7blk 1.0TO
SF - RudyGay: 35.5min 20.7pts (.552TS%) 5.9reb 3.7ast 1.0stl 0.6blk 2.7TO
I mean...the argument isn't that Cuz/Rudy/JT ARE the '83 Sixers frontcourt, but that's as close as you are going to find in the modern day. Not quite as efficient, but that team won 65 games and the title. Even a sloppier modern version should be able to reach half that many.
C) Backcourt
The huge gap comes in the backcourt, where the Sixers started two All Star caliber guards, and we...do not. Even there though Toney's role though was kind of an idealized version of what Ben's biggest supporters dream of for him. The designated shooter/spacer and #3 weapon. We absolutely do not have anything like Mo Cheeks, both a great defender and a pass first floor general...but if we had traded for Rondo we might have had something at least in the ballpark. The Sixers, like the Spurs team looked at last time, featured a backcourt who could both pass and create to help the frontcourt stars. Cheeks and Toney combined for 11.4 assists/gm. Ben and DC? 7.1.
D) Main Rotation Roster Comparison
C Moses Malone (Age: 27 Exp: 8yrs) = DeMarcus Cousins (Age: 24 Exp: 4yrs)
PF/SF Mike Iavaroni (Age: 26 Exp: R) = Jason Thompson (Age: 28 Exp: 6yrs)
SF Julius Erving (Age: 32 Exp: 11yrs) = Rudy Gay (Age: 28 Exp: 8yrs)
SG Andrew Toney (Age: 25 Exp: 2yrs) = Ben McLemore (Age: 21 Exp: 1yr)
PG Maurice Cheeks (Age: 26 Exp: 4yrs) = Darren Collison (Age: 27 Exp: 5yrs)
SF/PF Bobby Jones (Age: 31 Exp: 8yrs) = Derrick Williams (Age: 23 Exp: 3yrs)
C Clemon Johnson (Age: 26 Exp: 4yrs) = Carl Landry (Age: 31 Exp: 7yrs)
SG Clint Richardson (Age: 26 Exp: 3yrs) = Omri Casspi (Age: 26 Exp: 5yrs)
PG Franklin Edwards (Age: 23 Exp: 1yrs) = Sessions (Age:28) McCallum(Age:23) Miller (Age:38)
E) 1982-83 SixersMain Rotation Stats
Malone 78gms 37.5min 24.5pts (,501 .000 .767) 15.3reb 1.3ast 1.1stl 2.0blk 3.4TO
JErving 72gms 33.6min 21.4pts (.517 .286 .759) 6.8reb 3.7ast 1.6stl 1.8blk 2.7TO
AToney 81gms 30.5min 19.7pts (.501 .289 .788) 2.8reb 4.5ast 1.0stl 0.2blk 3.3TO
Cheeks 79gms 31.2min 12.5pts (.542 .167 .754) 2.6reb 6.9ast 2.3stl 0.4blk 2.3TO
BJones 74gms 23.6min 9.0pts (.543 .000 .793) 4.6reb 1.9ast 1.1stl 1.2blk 1.5TO
Richard 77gms 22.8min 7.6pts (.463 .000 .640) 3.2reb 2.2ast 0.9stl 0.2blk 1.3TO
Johnson 32gms 21.8min 6.8pts (.500 .000 .586) 6.4reb 0.8ast 0.5stl 0.9blk 1.1TO
Edwards 81gms 15.6min 6.7pts (.472 .000 .761) 1.0reb 2.7ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 1.4TO
Iavaroni 80gms 20.2min 5.1pts (.462 .000 .690) 4.1reb 1.0ast 0.4stl 0.6blk 1.7TO
Conclusion: So How Did They Win 65 While We'll Win Sub-30?
1) DEFENSE. DEFENSE! Do you hear me Vivek? D-E-F-E-N-S-E!!! Hey, look! A pattern! The Sixers were 5th in Def Rating that season. We, as always, are now down to 29th, with all of the damage being done in the past 3 months. So just take our roster, add a young Rondo and AK47 from his 6th man years, then sprinkle in some defensive minded roleplayers and a coach who cares about that stuff and you might begin to get into the same realm. Oh, and...
2) Paceliness is next to godliness...UNLESS you have the best post center in the game. Throughout this era the Sixers played at one of the slowest paces in the league, and amazingly enough still produced legendary teams slowing it down and pounding you to dust inside. Of course the league played faster overall in those days -- Gerbil really was born in the wrong era -- and so they were still playing faster than us this year.
3) Continuity. This was not the first rodeo for this Sixers team. It was the first one with their shiny new franchise center, but they had been battling with the Celtics for Conference supremacy for years by this time. They were not an old team, in fact beyond their great frontcourt, they were a young one. But the key guys were old vets, and everybody had been to the dance before.
4) Health: this too will become a consistent theme in these threads, it probably should almsot go wihtout saying. None of the 5 players that made them go missed more than 10 games.
5) The Talent Gap, Especially in The Backcourt. The Sixers were powered by 5 great players, we've got 2 1/2. Its why despite the real similarities in the frontcourt comparing these two teams can only point you at what you need to improve. The Sixers had everything we had up front, but as mentioned, it would be as if we went into the offseason and traded for young Rondo, 6th man Kirilenko, and maybe a young Ray Allen or pre-injury Eric Gordon or some such.
I chose this team to look at because of the nearly identical structure, or fantasized structure of the C/PF/SF/SG. All the roles are the same, many of the traits are the same. Just the talent (especially at SG) is different. But 35-40 games different? Again, we have all the details wrong though. There are no ace defenders to round that out. We have created a complete mess out of an entire season desperately fighting against a slower pace, etc. So I'll again ask in the poll, how would Boogie and Rudy do if they were swapped in in place of Moses and Dr. J that year. And if they would do well...what kind of indictment is that of the rest of our organization?
Study #2 is an ambitious comparison, and also the oldest team I will be looking at. Not only is it at the dawn of the modern NBA era (especially 3pt shooting etc.), but it is at the dawn of my own NBA awakening as well (one of my very first NBA debates was out on a playground jungle gym at recess with 5 or 6 other kids arguing over whether the Celtics, Sixers, or Lakers were going to win the title this year -- and no, none of us had a ****ing clue what we were talking about. I imagine it a lot like a Kings front office pow wow today -- lots of nuh uhs! and yeah huhs!).
Still the '83 Sixers were a great team (as in 65 win, won the title, considered one of the GOAT teams great) which AGAIN had a notably similar structure to the one we have right now. So let's break them down:
Study #2 -- The 1982-83 Sixers
Team Record: 65-17 (Won NBA Finals)
Coach: Billy Cunningham
Pace: 15th of 23
Off Rating: 5th of 23
Def Rating: 5th of 23
A) Roster and Roles
C - Moses Malone (#1 option)
PF - Mark Iavaroni (roleplaying spot starter) / Bobby Jones (defensive ace)
SF - Julius Erving (#2 option)
SG - Andrew Toney (shooter/#3 option)
PG - Maurice Cheeks (distributor/defender)
B) Frontcourt
Moses won the MVP that season, Dr. J was aging but still potent. Iavoroni was a short minute defensive type roleplayer, but the real defense came off the bench in the person of Bobby Jones as a Kirilenko type 6th man. The structure was eyepoppingly similar to our own, minus the Kirilenko type off the bench. Instead we've got a Derrick Williams or Carl Landry. But of all the legendary centers, Cuz might rememble a more skilled Moses more than any other. And Rudy is as close to a poor man's version of the gliding pterodactyl that was Dr. J as any player currently in the league. For purposes of the stats comparison I'm going to treat JT as our main starter this season:
Consider '83 Sixers starting frontcourt:
C - MMalone: 37.5min 24.5pts (.578TS%) 15.3reb 1.3ast 1.1stl 2.0blk 3.4TO
PF - Iavoroni: 20.2min 5.1pts (.502TS%) 4.1reb 1.0ast 0.4stl 0.6blk 1.7TO
SF - JErving: 33.6min 21.4pts (.566TS%) 6.8reb 3.7ast 1.6stl 1.8blk 2.7TO
Kings '15 starting frontcourt:
C - DeCousins: 33.9min 23.7pts (.551TS%) 12.3reb 3.2ast 1.4stl 1.6blk 4.2TO
PF - Thompsn: 24.4min 5.8pts (.506TS%) 6.3reb 0.9ast 0.4stl 0.7blk 1.0TO
SF - RudyGay: 35.5min 20.7pts (.552TS%) 5.9reb 3.7ast 1.0stl 0.6blk 2.7TO
I mean...the argument isn't that Cuz/Rudy/JT ARE the '83 Sixers frontcourt, but that's as close as you are going to find in the modern day. Not quite as efficient, but that team won 65 games and the title. Even a sloppier modern version should be able to reach half that many.
C) Backcourt
The huge gap comes in the backcourt, where the Sixers started two All Star caliber guards, and we...do not. Even there though Toney's role though was kind of an idealized version of what Ben's biggest supporters dream of for him. The designated shooter/spacer and #3 weapon. We absolutely do not have anything like Mo Cheeks, both a great defender and a pass first floor general...but if we had traded for Rondo we might have had something at least in the ballpark. The Sixers, like the Spurs team looked at last time, featured a backcourt who could both pass and create to help the frontcourt stars. Cheeks and Toney combined for 11.4 assists/gm. Ben and DC? 7.1.
D) Main Rotation Roster Comparison
C Moses Malone (Age: 27 Exp: 8yrs) = DeMarcus Cousins (Age: 24 Exp: 4yrs)
PF/SF Mike Iavaroni (Age: 26 Exp: R) = Jason Thompson (Age: 28 Exp: 6yrs)
SF Julius Erving (Age: 32 Exp: 11yrs) = Rudy Gay (Age: 28 Exp: 8yrs)
SG Andrew Toney (Age: 25 Exp: 2yrs) = Ben McLemore (Age: 21 Exp: 1yr)
PG Maurice Cheeks (Age: 26 Exp: 4yrs) = Darren Collison (Age: 27 Exp: 5yrs)
SF/PF Bobby Jones (Age: 31 Exp: 8yrs) = Derrick Williams (Age: 23 Exp: 3yrs)
C Clemon Johnson (Age: 26 Exp: 4yrs) = Carl Landry (Age: 31 Exp: 7yrs)
SG Clint Richardson (Age: 26 Exp: 3yrs) = Omri Casspi (Age: 26 Exp: 5yrs)
PG Franklin Edwards (Age: 23 Exp: 1yrs) = Sessions (Age:28) McCallum(Age:23) Miller (Age:38)
E) 1982-83 SixersMain Rotation Stats
Malone 78gms 37.5min 24.5pts (,501 .000 .767) 15.3reb 1.3ast 1.1stl 2.0blk 3.4TO
JErving 72gms 33.6min 21.4pts (.517 .286 .759) 6.8reb 3.7ast 1.6stl 1.8blk 2.7TO
AToney 81gms 30.5min 19.7pts (.501 .289 .788) 2.8reb 4.5ast 1.0stl 0.2blk 3.3TO
Cheeks 79gms 31.2min 12.5pts (.542 .167 .754) 2.6reb 6.9ast 2.3stl 0.4blk 2.3TO
BJones 74gms 23.6min 9.0pts (.543 .000 .793) 4.6reb 1.9ast 1.1stl 1.2blk 1.5TO
Richard 77gms 22.8min 7.6pts (.463 .000 .640) 3.2reb 2.2ast 0.9stl 0.2blk 1.3TO
Johnson 32gms 21.8min 6.8pts (.500 .000 .586) 6.4reb 0.8ast 0.5stl 0.9blk 1.1TO
Edwards 81gms 15.6min 6.7pts (.472 .000 .761) 1.0reb 2.7ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 1.4TO
Iavaroni 80gms 20.2min 5.1pts (.462 .000 .690) 4.1reb 1.0ast 0.4stl 0.6blk 1.7TO
Conclusion: So How Did They Win 65 While We'll Win Sub-30?
1) DEFENSE. DEFENSE! Do you hear me Vivek? D-E-F-E-N-S-E!!! Hey, look! A pattern! The Sixers were 5th in Def Rating that season. We, as always, are now down to 29th, with all of the damage being done in the past 3 months. So just take our roster, add a young Rondo and AK47 from his 6th man years, then sprinkle in some defensive minded roleplayers and a coach who cares about that stuff and you might begin to get into the same realm. Oh, and...
2) Paceliness is next to godliness...UNLESS you have the best post center in the game. Throughout this era the Sixers played at one of the slowest paces in the league, and amazingly enough still produced legendary teams slowing it down and pounding you to dust inside. Of course the league played faster overall in those days -- Gerbil really was born in the wrong era -- and so they were still playing faster than us this year.
3) Continuity. This was not the first rodeo for this Sixers team. It was the first one with their shiny new franchise center, but they had been battling with the Celtics for Conference supremacy for years by this time. They were not an old team, in fact beyond their great frontcourt, they were a young one. But the key guys were old vets, and everybody had been to the dance before.
4) Health: this too will become a consistent theme in these threads, it probably should almsot go wihtout saying. None of the 5 players that made them go missed more than 10 games.
5) The Talent Gap, Especially in The Backcourt. The Sixers were powered by 5 great players, we've got 2 1/2. Its why despite the real similarities in the frontcourt comparing these two teams can only point you at what you need to improve. The Sixers had everything we had up front, but as mentioned, it would be as if we went into the offseason and traded for young Rondo, 6th man Kirilenko, and maybe a young Ray Allen or pre-injury Eric Gordon or some such.
I chose this team to look at because of the nearly identical structure, or fantasized structure of the C/PF/SF/SG. All the roles are the same, many of the traits are the same. Just the talent (especially at SG) is different. But 35-40 games different? Again, we have all the details wrong though. There are no ace defenders to round that out. We have created a complete mess out of an entire season desperately fighting against a slower pace, etc. So I'll again ask in the poll, how would Boogie and Rudy do if they were swapped in in place of Moses and Dr. J that year. And if they would do well...what kind of indictment is that of the rest of our organization?
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