The Plan for the Future! What do you think the plan is...

[steelevt]

People, you need to see the BIG picture. This team is a run and gun squad like the Warriors who after one bad season they learned to play together with some nobody players and just turned it up a notch and BAM right into the playoffs and making a push to almost... almost making the finals. All they had was one superstar and everybody else just stepped in and stepped it up. I think the Kings have a good C-SF-SG and to get Beno back along with having a young PF backup or start is a good thing. STOP looking to next season and losing and so forth, if you keep wanting draft picks your going nowhere as a team. It's about winning not always presuming we'll be bad so lets look passed this year and onto next. A good example of a team with good players but went nowhere is the BULLS whom got lucky with the first pick. They're not exactly rebuilding, they're not looking to next year to get another pick, they already have the players there. Like the Kings, the players are good enough just need to put it all together. Can't say that about every team but this team is a prebuilt machine that needs some bolts and nuts tightened so it runs smoothly or.... NEW PICK NEW COACH! LOL!

Wow...are you serious? Being positive or optimistic is one thing, but some of the stuff you are saying to back it up is just wrong. Our current roster this year didnt seem like a run and gun team, the warriors aren't a bunch of no name players. At least i dont think stephen jackson and al harrington are nobody players. Not to mention monta ellis 6th man of the year, and biedrins who might be horrible offensively, is a great rebounder/blocker. When they made the playoffs, they matched up well and upset the mavs, but just getting to the second round and losing is hardly "almost making the finals." Do you know what their record this year was? 48-34. 12 games over 500 and they still missed the playoffs. Its so hard to make the playoffs in the western conference, even though we have the possibility to make it, i wouldnt bet on it since the west is so deep. Im not saying we should throw away the season, im against purposely losing and not even trying, i just think we should play our young guys more. They will make mistakes but its the best way for them to learn. I personally think a 30-52 season put up by playing our young guys and building chemistry is ok as opposed to a 41-41 season giving major minutes to miller/moore/artest with hawes and thompson rotting on the bench and garcia trying to find minutes.

 

[nbrans]

I don't think there's a plan. This isn't a Portland style rebuild. For better or worse, Geoff is an opportunist, but he doesn't create opportunities. The good side of this is that he's always ready to go after an opportunity to acquire talent -- Salmons, SAR, Artest, the draft, Webber... he is flexible and able to to pounce when an opportunity presents itself.

But emphasis on an opportunity PRESENTING ITSELF, because Geoff doesn't really do much to create the opportunities. Doesn't really move around in the draft, isn't active on the trade front, doesn't ditch veterans in a youth movement, and thus, doesn't put the team in a position for a high draft pick, nor did he put the team in position to have free agency money even after Skinner and Williamson's contracts expired.

Good and bad comes of this. On the one hand, he really is pretty good at capitalizing on the opportunities that are presented. His draft record and trade record isn't perfect, but no one's is, and he makes good decisions more than bad.

But the problem with this is that Geoff's basically waiting around for lightning to strike. We'll see if he holds to the 2010 offseason plan, in which case we may finally be able to make a big splash. Until then I guess we're going to have to hope that an opposing GM is stupid enough to give us the next Chris Webber-like trade steal. Otherwise, mediocrity here we come.

 

[ParniValjak]

We are not going to get the picks Blazers got because

A) we are not commited to a true rebuild where you load the roster with youth, let them play and develop together, suck this year but be comfortable in the knowledge than in 2 years time you have a framework of a legitimatly good team.

B) we are not prepared to make deals happen on draft day. For the last 3 drafts Blazers have come away from the draft as absolute winners because they made trades that needed to be made in order to get back to lofty heights. We on the other hand sit back, wait for our pick to come up, call out a name and go home.

Blazers are a really young team and they nearly made the play offs in the loaded west THIS year without Oden. People rave on about how much we have improved this year but Blazers are YOUNGER AND BETTER than us.

Sure they had some luck along the way (getting Oden) but seriously you sometimes make your own luck. For as long as we are prepared to be in no man's land and keep getting picks 10-13 we are NEVER going to get the luck that gets us elite talent in the draft. Either do the darn thing properly and pick up you ball and bat and go home.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Another thing about the Blazers - even if all these young guys bust, they still have a lot of value and can make something happen. Look at Boston - they stockpiled on young guys, and an honest assessment of those guys would say they were not at the level expected of the guys in Portland. They tried for 2-3 seasons, it clearly wasn't working so they shipped them all out and boom. Biggest turnaround in history, world title. Like that.

The fact is, we are the exact opposite of what those teams are doing, we hold on to our guys until they have no trade value whatsoever, some can't even play, sit pat on draft day, sign marginal players to longer than needed deals, it goes on and on.

Its just frustrating and painful to watch and has even sucked out most of the enjoyment I'd get from seeing two other teams I generally like do well.

 

[nbrans]

I agree with what you guys are saying and I personally would have liked to have seen a Portland-style rebuild, but I also don't think it's the only possible way of going about a rebuild.

It's not my preference, but there is also something to be said for the "hanging around with some talent" model as well, which was used by Phoenix, among others. After the weak playoff runs in the late 90s, Phoenix never really blew it up, and instead only dipped into the lottery a few times. When they did end up in the lottery they really scored on their late lotto picks with Shawn Marion and Amare, but they never had a super-high pick. Their biggest move was trading away Marbury to New York, which freed up the cap room to sign Steve Nash, and then voila, everyone looks like geniuses.

This is esssentially what we're doing, albeit more slowly. So if there IS a model that we're following I'd say it's the Phoenix model. They never really blew it up, they planned and got some cap room, and they bounced back in a big way. The hanging around thing can work if you're smart. But it requires a whole lot of luck and some really good choices.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I agree with what you guys are saying and I personally would have liked to have seen a Portland-style rebuild, but I also don't think it's the only possible way of going about a rebuild.

It's not my preference, but there is also something to be said for the "hanging around with some talent" model as well, which was used by Phoenix, among others. After the weak playoff runs in the late 90s, Phoenix never really blew it up, and instead only dipped into the lottery a few times. When they did end up in the lottery they really scored on their late lotto picks with Shawn Marion and Amare, but they never had a super-high pick. Their biggest move was trading away Marbury to New York, which freed up the cap room to sign Steve Nash, and then voila, everyone looks like geniuses.

This is esssentially what we're doing, albeit more slowly. So if there IS a model that we're following I'd say it's the Phoenix model. They never really blew it up, they planned and got some cap room, and they bounced back in a big way. The hanging around thing can work if you're smart. But it requires a whole lot of luck and some really good choices.

The thing that worries me about this model, and all the talk about making a big free agent splash in 2010, is that I'm not sure you can do that in Sacramento. When have the Kings ever signed a max free agent? I love Sacramento, but it's not Los Angeles, New York, Miami, Orlando, or Phoenix. Yes, players do follow the $$$, but I don't think relying on a Nash-like signing in two years is the best strategy. Is cap room helpful for making other deals? Sure (look what Seattle did, getting three 1st rounders for taking on, then trading, Kurt Thomas). But while we should certainly aim high for the Amare's and Bosh's in 2010, I would expect us to be signing more of a Divac (Sac's biggest FA acquisition to date) than a Nash.

 

[nbrans]

^I agree, although I think what small market teams with cap room end up doing is overpaying someone. Phoenix is also a unique case because they really lucked out with Nash's career arc. If Mark Cuban would have matched Phoenix's offer, chances are Nash would have stayed in Dallas. But Phoenix was widely seen as reaching with Nash's contract, but of course in the end they got the last laugh. Utah similarly lucked out with Boozer. Atlanta to a certain extent with Joe Johnson.

But I agree with you about how risky it is. Portland's strategy makes more sense for a small market team because with home-grown talent you have the edge of being able to pay them more, which is how we were able to keep Webber.

But in the end, building cap room isn't just about signing Free Agents -- it also facilitates trades. So thankfullly with cap room we'd have the ability to bring in highly paid stars against their will.

 

[bajaden]

I think its always easy to look at the result of the moment and forget the journey. It wasn't exactly a painless experience for Portland and their fans. Remember all the players that they had to ship out of town before their rebuild could actually start. They tried doing one player at a time. Sort of like cutting off a deceased part and hoping that the rest of the body will cure itself. Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Zack Randfoff and others were sent packing. Sometimes one at a time and sometimes in groups. Their fan base went to hell and attendance was at a all time low. Qyntel Woods, Darius Miles, Ruben Patterson. They were all shipped out of town.

Give them credit for biting the bullet and doing what they had to do. But it wasn't overnight. Its been five years since they have been in the playoffs. With luck, they'll return next year. We, on the other hand, have only been out of the playoffs for two years. So using them as a yardstick, we have three more years to blow before we return to the playoffs.

My point is, that sometimes things aren't as glum as they appear. And that stars aren't born overnight. It takes time and hard work. However, if you don't have the patience to wait for the Kings. Hey, go root for Portland...

 

[Lafayette]

The Kings will be good, believe me, only me though, everyone else is lying... ha! Seriously, you should just wait for JULY 1st because we'll find out if the badass of the NBA is sticking around. If Artest leaves then we'll have some real "Lottery Pick" discussions. Do you think if Artest leaves that Petrie will trade Miller for a SF or a PG? Possibly trading away Miller for a PG, not signing Udrih and starting Garcia or Salmons? We'll see, gotta love this fan talk, it keeps us going even though the season did just end... 3 months isn't that long.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting a little tired about hearing how great Portland's rebuilding these past few years. I am very impressed with the talent that has accumulated in Portland, but I can't stand hearing how Portland is doing things the "right" way and anyone else who is doing it another way is "wrong". Despite all this talent Portland has yet to make the playoffs and there is a certain timeline on their rebuilding strategy. Because Portland accumulated all this talent in a short time all of these talented players are going to have to be resigned to large contracts very soon. By the time that Oden will need to be resigned Portland will have 3 very large contracts in Oden, Aldridge, and Roy. Not to mention the contracts of players like Outlaw and now Bayless when their resigning comes.

How long can Portland hoard youth before they have to make a move for a big name veteran? I really expected Portland to make a move on draft day, but again their office seems hesitant to bring in a veteran. Perhaps when the opt out period ends they will make that move. But as I see it right now, Portlands move have brought a lot of hope and flash to the city. However I haven't seen the results yet. So please, can people stop referring to Portland as the model for rebuilding until they are in the playoffs at least?

lol, some people just don't get it. i'm not naming any names lets see what MLE scrub we can pick up this offseason to get more season ticket holders this year.

 

[VF21]

I think its always easy to look at the result of the moment and forget the journey. It wasn't exactly a painless experience for Portland and their fans. Remember all the players that they had to ship out of town before their rebuild could actually start. They tried doing one player at a time. Sort of like cutting off a deceased part and hoping that the rest of the body will cure itself. Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Zack Randfoff and others were sent packing. Sometimes one at a time and sometimes in groups. Their fan base went to hell and attendance was at a all time low. Qyntel Woods, Darius Miles, Ruben Patterson. They were all shipped out of town.

Give them credit for biting the bullet and doing what they had to do. But it wasn't overnight. Its been five years since they have been in the playoffs. With luck, they'll return next year. We, on the other hand, have only been out of the playoffs for two years. So using them as a yardstick, we have three more years to blow before we return to the playoffs.

My point is, that sometimes things aren't as glum as they appear. And that stars aren't born overnight. It takes time and hard work.

Nice post, bajaden. Thanks. I think people forget how much crap Portland went through. If we can find a way to get back on the right track without the fan base totally going to hell, then I think that's the way to go. And I see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Petrie has said he was aiming for 2010. Looking at the contracts that will come off the books, 2010 actually could be the year the Kings make the big splash in the free agency pool. It's certainly worth hoping for.

 

[AyeCarly]

Rebuilding on the fly, The Truth

quote taken from Plan for the future thread, and is my response to the other camps allegations of how great Portland's rebuild is.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27858&page=2

Another thing about the Blazers - even if all these young guys bust, they still have a lot of value and can make something happen. Look at Boston - they stockpiled on young guys, and an honest assessment of those guys would say they were not at the level expected of the guys in Portland. They tried for 2-3 seasons, it clearly wasn't working so they shipped them all out and boom. Biggest turnaround in history, world title. Like that.

The fact is, we are the exact opposite of what those teams are doing, we hold on to our guys until they have no trade value whatsoever, some can't even play, sit pat on draft day, sign marginal players to longer than needed deals, it goes on and on.

Its just frustrating and painful to watch and has even sucked out most of the enjoyment I'd get from seeing two other teams I generally like do well.

The Celts "rebuild" is nothing like the Blazers rebuild. Their rebuild is a "rebuild on the fly" if I have ever seen one.

Lets look at how the 2008 NBA Champion Celts were built, by examing how they acquired their key players. (in the interest of laziness I did not double check my research)

1) Paul Pierce was the Celtics 10th pick in 1998 (emphasis that he was not a top 3 pick to rebuild on and yet he turned out to be a perennial all-star and Finals MVP).

2) They acquired Garnett (age 32, 13 NBA seasons) by trading Al Jefferson (Celtics 15th pick in 2004, 4th season), Ryan Gomes (3rd season), Sebastian Telfair (4th season), Gerald Green (3rd season), Theo Ratliff (ancient), and 2 - 2009 1st round draft picks (0 seasons duh).

That is the total opposite of what Portland is attempting to do, which is go young and stack prospects. Because Al Jefferson was their young prospect and future of the franchise, as are their two first round picks in 2009 (as an aside, barring injury to one or more of the Big 3, these picks will be in the mid 20s at best due to the Celts now championship caliber squad). Either way 7 players for 1, 6 being young in NBA terms (2 not even drafted yet) is not what Portland is doing.

3) Ray Allen (12 seasons) and Glen Davis were acquired for the 5th pick in 2007, Delonte West, and Wally Szerbiak (again not rebuilding by going young).

4) Rondo was picked 21st in the draft (by Suns in 2006), meaning 20 other teams who were rebuilding passed on him (the Blazers and Kings passed, he must not be the type of young player you can rebuild with )

5) Perkins (27th pick in 2003), Powe (49th pick in 2006), Cassell was bought out by the Clippers (the Clippers), PJ Brown came out of semi-retirement, and Posey and House have bounced around the league. Again, no one here a high draft pick resulting from "underachieving".

The Celtics were not put together by lots of their own draft picks, not by sucking it up year after year. They did suck for two years, not by choice though.

They were in the same boat as the Kings, early playoff exits led by Pierce and Al Jefferson in 2004 and 2005 and prior to that getting to conference finals in 2002 and conference semis in 2003.

They ended 2006 with a 33-49 record which earned them the 7th pick.

Ainge attempted to "rebuild on the fly" (the same as Petrie has) as they traded that 2006 7th pick, Raef Lafrentz, Dan Dickau for Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a 2nd round pick


2007 is where luck came into play (or the planets aligned just right, or whatever), first of all because Pierce was injured which led to a 2-22 record while he was out and a 24-58 record overall.

At the beginning of this year, Garnett was finally available after 12 years of frustration in Minnesota. However, it took 6 young prospects and 1 vet to land him. Talk about mortgaging your future.

Now here's the eerie part, instead of getting the 2nd pick in the lottery, which probability figures should have happened, the worst case scenario happened which meant the Celts got the 5th pick that year.

Now would they have traded that 2nd pick they were supposed to get, for Ray Allen? I think not, correct (or Ainge would have lived up to the general opinion of him, that he was a horrible GM). So he ended up as part of the Boston Three Party, Big Three, blah blah blah.

Was Kevin Durant going to shoot lights out like Ray Allen in his stead? I don't think so. No disrespect to Durant, but Ray is considered one of the best shooters in NBA history. And we all know how important Ray's offense was in the last few series.

Moral of the story, the possibility of the Kings winning a championship by "rebuilding on the fly", has as good a chance of happening as the the Portland Trailblazers stategy of stacking young talent, as evidenced by the "rebuild-on-the-fly" Boston Celtics.

 

[AyeCarly]

P.S. In their case rebuilding on the fly took one season.

How long will it take the Blazers (to win a championship)? (For that matter the Cavs, Jazz, Raptors and Magic who have head starts on them, with better young talent).

 

[tradepeja]

Cassell was bought out by the Clippers (the Clippers),

That part made me lol

 

[Bricklayer]

P.S. In their case rebuilding on the fly took one season.

How long will it take the Blazers (to win a championship)? (For that matter the Cavs, Jazz, Raptors and Magic who have head starts on them, with better young talent).

You do realize that their "rebuilding on the fly" was NOT rebuilding "on the fly" (and apparently you really never have seen one, whihc is no surprise given how rare/nearly impossible they are), right? That they intentionally let the whole thing crash and burn to achieve those results? That they tanked a season to get the highest possible draft pick? And that they had stockpiled draft pick after draft pick for years INSTEAD of trying to win? And that it was ONLY because they had stockpiled draft pick after draft pick and tanked a season that they had the assets they needed to make the trades for their instant rebuild? And that even with all that what they accomplished was still a nearly unprecedented feat in league history by adding two pereinnial All-Stars, including one first ballot HOFer in one offseason? (the unprecedented nature being obvious enough when you realize they had the greatest single season turnaround in league history). And that even with all of that, their "rebuild" is strictly a short term affair and they will be rebuilding again in 3 years?

 

[nbrans]

You do realize that their "rebuilding on the fly" was NOT rebuilding "on the fly" (and apparently you really never have seen one, whihc is no surprise given how rare/nearly impossible they are), right? That they intentionally let the whole thing crash and burn to achieve those results? That they tanked a season to get the highest possible draft pick? And that they had stockpiled draft pick after draft pick for years INSTEAD of trying to win? And that it was ONLY because they had stockpiled draft pick after draft pick and tanked a season that they had the assets they needed to make the trades for their instant rebuild? And that even with all that what they accomplished was still a nearly unprecedented feat in league history by adding two pereinnial All-Stars, including one first ballot HOFer in one offseason? (the unprecedented nature being obvious enough when you realize they had the greatest single season turnaround in league history). And that even with all of that, their "rebuild" is strictly a short term affair and they will be rebuilding again in 3 years?

I don't know, I think you might give Ainge and the Celtics too much credit for planning. Yes, they had some good young assets due to some good draft picks, but I really disagree they hadn't been trying for years to win. Most of those young assets (Jefferson, West, Rondo, Perkins) were all late 1st round picks who panned out. They only went two years without making the playoffs. Yes, that particular year they tanked with gusto, but the funny thing is, had they won the lottery they would have drafted Oden or Durant, they probably would have auctioned off Pierce and built around Durant and Jefferson, and three or four years from now maybe they would be getting back to respectability. They would be where the Sonics are now, essentially.

But since they lost the lottery, they parlayed their assets into Ray Allen and KG. I really don't think that was the plan until they decided to try and make lemonade out of lemons. It also just happened to be the year the Wolves decided to trade KG, which was tremendously, colossaly, Geoff-Petrie-getting-Webber-style lucky.

I give Ainge all the credit in the world for making those moves, but it's not like it was the plan all along. They were operating from the seat of their pants that offseason. Except for the tanking, which, yeah, helped get them Ray Allen, it was more of a Geoff Petrie style opportunistic offseason rather than something they had been intentionally building for years.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't know, I think you might give Ainge and the Celtics too much credit for planning. Yes, they had some good young assets due to some good draft picks, but I really disagree they hadn't been trying for years to win. Most of those young assets (Jefferson, West, Rondo, Perkins) were all late 1st round picks who panned out. They only went two years without making the playoffs. Yes, that particular year they tanked with gusto, but the funny thing is, had they won the lottery they would have drafted Oden or Durant, they probably would have auctioned off Pierce and built around Durant and Jefferson, and three or four years from now maybe they would be getting back to respectability. They would be where the Sonics are now, essentially.

But since they lost the lottery, they parlayed their assets into Ray Allen and KG. I really don't think that was the plan until they decided to try and make lemonade out of lemons. It also just happened to be the year the Wolves decided to trade KG, which was tremendously, colossaly, Geoff-Petrie-getting-Webber-style lucky.

I give Ainge all the credit in the world for making those moves, but it's not like it was the plan all along. They were operating from the seat of their pants that offseason. Except for the tanking, which, yeah, helped get them Ray Allen, it was more of a Geoff Petrie style opportunistic offseason rather than something they had been intentionally building for years.

I still think Ainge is mostly an idiot, and I think KG was as much McHale as Ainge, but the Celts were still making moves to get 2-3 1st round picks every draft. No they weren't all high picks, but it maximized their chances of getting quality starting caliber players that weren't superstars, and all those guys became key trade components. When was the last time we had two picks in the first round? And who do we have that actually may have any trade value? Martin. Maybe Garcia. Because we always draft "low risk, low reward" guys as Brick calls them, we never have guys that have any speculative value where we could get a team to overpay.

 

[bloom]

I’m usually relaxed but this year I just want to improve and start, seriously moving forward. I blame the Indiana-Portland trade for my unhappiness: sending Bayless to the Blazers all while we could have gotten him and our number 12 pick. As I watched Indiana take our point guard and hand it over to these guys, I’m thinking, why, why, why couldn’t we make a deal with Indiana? Are we totally assetless? I trust Geoff, I support him as our gm, but man that was painful to hear. Do other gm’s stay far away from Geoff cause of what he did? Or was he not as aggressive with Indiana or any other team?

The sad part about our team is, that I’m watching players who I don’t like (whether they’re sitting on the bench or on the court). I love my Kings but there’s players I just don’t think fit/ they have chemistry issues/ I don’t want on my team. We have: SAR, Kenny, John, Ron and Mikki. Shareef needs to retire. Kenny – Can we just trade the guy, I wonder if the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, Suns, New York (man I wish Thomas wasn’t fired) would take him. John – please tell me he’s leaving and not becoming our starter. Ron – we better not sign the guy to a contract unless we’re getting the first 10 picks in the next draft. Mikki – Sure the guy has energy, but I’d like someone else there, a guy that’s much younger and cuter then he is ().

2010 is far away, let’s just try to start improving a little more quickly then we have before. No more old vets or guys who don’t know what the word team means. And who knows, maybe we can get our superstar before ’10.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't know, I think you might give Ainge and the Celtics too much credit for planning. Yes, they had some good young assets due to some good draft picks, but I really disagree they hadn't been trying for years to win. Most of those young assets (Jefferson, West, Rondo, Perkins) were all late 1st round picks who panned out. They only went two years without making the playoffs. Yes, that particular year they tanked with gusto, but the funny thing is, had they won the lottery they would have drafted Oden or Durant, they probably would have auctioned off Pierce and built around Durant and Jefferson, and three or four years from now maybe they would be getting back to respectability. They would be where the Sonics are now, essentially.

But since they lost the lottery, they parlayed their assets into Ray Allen and KG. I really don't think that was the plan until they decided to try and make lemonade out of lemons. It also just happened to be the year the Wolves decided to trade KG, which was tremendously, colossaly, Geoff-Petrie-getting-Webber-style lucky.

I give Ainge all the credit in the world for making those moves, but it's not like it was the plan all along. They were operating from the seat of their pants that offseason. Except for the tanking, which, yeah, helped get them Ray Allen, it was more of a Geoff Petrie style opportunistic offseason rather than something they had been intentionally building for years.

I never said it was all planned -- indeed that was the whole point of the post. They did not "rebuild on the fly". Their plan was to tank and rebuild like everybody else. Pile up young studs, chase that #1, get lucky, and have a whole generation of youth to build with.

But regardless of whetehr it was planned or not, if they had NOT been committed to piling up youth. If they had not had half a dozen guys on rookie conracts. If they had not tanked to get a top pick. There is no rebuild at all. No insto snappo lucky or not all time turnaround. If they had just been sitting on their *** with 2 or 3 kids, a couple of vets, a few MLe guys, trying to make #8 in the East and falling just short...that's excetly where they would still be today. Their "rebuild on the fly" is just as much a result of accumulating traditional rebuilding assets as Portland's masterful job is. They piled up youth, picks, a giant ender. Not only did noot care that that resulted in huge losses, but actually went to the questionable extreme in promoting it, and that is why they are where they are today. No other strategy would have resulted in the assets tehy needed to makew this turnaround.

 

[VF21]

All that would have gone for naught had Kevin Garnett not been so unhappy in Minnesota that McHale finally did his old friend Danny Ainge a favor and traded him. The Celtics without Kevin Garnett are not champions of the NBA.

 

[TheRaven]

All that would have gone for naught had Kevin Garnett not been so unhappy in Minnesota that McHale finally did his old friend Danny Ainge a favor and traded him. The Celtics without Kevin Garnett are not champions of the NBA.

Right, there was a certain amount of luck involved. Just as there was a certain amount of luck involved in us being able to acquire Webber at the right time when his value was low. There is also a certain amount of luck involved in getting the #1 pick in a year when Tim Duncan declares for the draft. Luck is always an element that you can't quite plan for.

Anyway, I agree with bricklayer compeltely on this issue. If your team is not in position to realistically compete for a championship, wins in the regular season are the least of your worries. Assembling assets needed to get you deep into the playoffs and to compete for a championship is what matters.

No one wants to have to see their team in a position where losing actually benefits them more than winning, but it is a reality in the NBA. With star-level players meaning so much to the game and a limited supply of them, the very top picks of the draft are the place where you have the best chance at finding one. If your lucky, there are sometimes stars that go lower in the draft, but it is much more rare. Especially now with international scouting more developed and the implementation of the ban on direct-from-high-school players.

Top players rarely leave their teams via free agency, and somewhat less rarely via trade. Even in those cases, you still must have the proper assets in order to be attractive to a free agent or to be able to trade for a player, plus a little of the previously mentioned luck. Those assets are cap space, draft picks (preferably in the top-5), young players, and in some cases, expiring deals. The Celtics had many of those assets assembled, and was able to turn them into KG, Allen, and the rest.

I love the Kings as much as any person, but I am not satisfied with 40-win seasons; I want championship rings. In the NBA you often have to "hit bottom" before you can climb back to the top. I would rather us hit bottom briefly before rising to the top than see us wallow in mediocrity.

 

[nbrans]

I never said it was all planned -- indeed that was the whole point of the post. They did not "rebuild on the fly". Their plan was to tank and rebuild like everybody else. Pile up young studs, chase that #1, get lucky, and have a whole generation of youth to build with.

But regardless of whetehr it was planned or not, if they had NOT been committed to piling up youth. If they had not had half a dozen guys on rookie conracts. If they had not tanked to get a top pick. There is no rebuild at all. No insto snappo lucky or not all time turnaround. If they had just been sitting on their *** with 2 or 3 kids, a couple of vets, a few MLe guys, trying to make #8 in the East and falling just short...that's excetly where they would still be today. Their "rebuild on the fly" is just as much a result of accumulating traditional rebuilding assets as Portland's masterful job is. They piled up youth, picks, a giant ender. Not only did noot care that that resulted in huge losses, but actually went to the questionable extreme in promoting it, and that is why they are where they are today. No other strategy would have resulted in the assets tehy needed to makew this turnaround.

Again, while I'm absolutely in the tanking camp, I think you give them a bit too much credit. Up until Tankapalooza '07 they were trying to win, just as we were trying to win. They had a few seasons going nowhere in the playoffs and then another season where they tried to win and ended up with a mediocre non-playoff season. During this time they were actively and idiotically acquiring veterans like Wally Szczerbiak -- sure, Wally eventually ended up being part of the Ray Allen trade, but it's not like he was anything approaching an expiring, and they didn't bring him on thinking of dumping him. He was acquired as a last ditch effort to help them win.

And yes -- as pdxKingsFan pointed out, they were able to acquire some extra picks, and thanks to the incredible stupidity of Paxson, they got a 1st Round pick for Jiri Welsch of all people. They also nailed a few later picks even while making idiotic moves like trading the pick that became Randy Foye for Sebastian Telfair.

It all looks smart in retrospect, but the Celtics were a study in pure and opportunistic seat-of-your-pants GMing. It's Geoff Petrie style stuff. You try and acquire talent and upgrades where you can and then count on other GMs' stupiditiy and then pounce.

The one thing that the Celtics were willing to do which we haven't was tank, and I completely agree with you there. This upcoming season would be prime time for us to do so with a stellar crop of young point guards in the draft and enough kids to play all the positions. I don't think it's going to happen, but we'll see.

 

[VF21]

I love the Kings as much as any person, but I am not satisfied with 40-win seasons; I want championship rings. In the NBA you often have to "hit bottom" before you can climb back to the top. I would rather us hit bottom briefly before rising to the top than see us wallow in mediocrity.

And I don't believe in the "all or nothing" philosophy as far as entertainment is concerned, and that's what the Kings are when you really think about it. (And this is coming from someone who sleeps, eats and breathes Kings.)

Not that many teams win championships. It's not like a rotation where you finally get your turn. We had a good shot in 2002/2003, and it didn't involve throwing out the baby with the bath water to get to that point.

You say "I would rather us hit bottom briefly before rising to the top" as though one guarantees the other. It doesn't. Teams like the Celtics are the exception to the rule. Portland, widely touted as a successful example, hasn't won diddily or squat yet.

I do understand the concept and I respect those of you with that opinion, but I will never agree with it. I go to games in the now to have fun and be entertained. I would absolutely love to see the Kings win a championship before I shuffle off this mortal coil but if it doesn't happen, I'll still be happy for all the good times I had as a Kings fan.

But this is all the stuff message boards - especially during TDOS - are made of, so I'll agree to disagree with parts of the concept while agreeing that we need to rebuild. I just think we're starting that process and trust in Petrie. And yes, those are purple-tinted glasses from which I view my world.

 

[bajaden]

Lucky or not, the Celts have something this year that we do not. A championship. However, I think that this particular team will be like a fourth of july rocket exploding into the night sky.. Bringing AAAHHHs from the crowd, and then slowly fading into the night sky, gone forever.....