The PERFECT deal: Wiz/Kings

[Troy]

If we are trading anyone for Ethan Thomas or Hayward, please let it be Kenny Thomas!!!!
GP payed dearly for Salmons with the MLE this past offseason and he is versatile playing 3 positions and knows his role off the bench. I don't see us remotely thinking about moving Salmons especially if we are serious about trading Bibby and/or Artest. Salmons would be a starter at least until a better player was obtained that would send him off to the bench to be our 6th man.

 

[walker60]

3 reasons to do this trade:

1. Big for small of equal talent
2. We need a shotblocker and rebounder
3. Cisco can easily slide into Salmons role

I know we like Salmon's versatility and all, but let's be honest, we aren't going to get much more for him and Cisco provides the same thing for less money.

 

[Smills91]

3 reasons to do this trade:

1. Big for small of equal talent
2. We need a shotblocker and rebounder
3. Cisco can easily slide into Salmons role

I know we like Salmon's versatility and all, but let's be honest, we aren't going to get much more for him and Cisco provides the same thing for less money.

Basically my thoughts as well. I'd add a 2nd player over 6'9" to that list

 

[rhythmless]

haywood or etan were ripe to be traded after their fight in practice, but nothing happened. this was when we desperately needed a hustle big. if it didnt happen then, i think theres an even smaller chance of it happening now.

also, i think you are undervaluing salmon's intangibles. much has been said about corliss being a class act (which he is), but salmons quietly goes about bringing (inconsistent) energy off the bench, as a fill in starter, on defense, etc. almost all in the kings rotation have at one point or another criticized/been frustrated with musselman, yet i have not read salmons publicly doing anything of the sort. theres something to be said for that

 

[Smills91]

haywood or etan were ripe to be traded after their fight in practice, but nothing happened. this was when we desperately needed a hustle big. if it didnt happen then, i think theres an even smaller chance of it happening now.

also, i think you are undervaluing salmon's intangibles. much has been said about corliss being a class act (which he is), but salmons quietly goes about bringing (inconsistent) energy off the bench, as a fill in starter, on defense, etc. almost all in the kings rotation have at one point or another criticized/been frustrated with musselman, yet i have not read salmons publicly doing anything of the sort. theres something to be said for that

For the record I have ALWAYS been a huge Salmons supported. I like his game...however, this trade comes down to NEED (a big that will board and block shots and help control the paint - with a VERY reasonable contract) versus a redundant wing player(who I admit is the better player) when we have Garcia/Douby that could absorb those minutes from the vacated Salmons.

 

[nbrans]

For the record I have ALWAYS been a huge Salmons supported. I like his game...however, this trade comes down to NEED (a big that will board and block shots and help control the paint - with a VERY reasonable contract) versus a redundant wing player(who I admit is the better player) when we have Garcia/Douby that could absorb those minutes from the vacated Salmons.

Salmons is worth more than this, whether by himself or in a package deal. This trade accomplishes nothing other than acquiring a mediocre malcontent underachieving backup center who at best would get 15 minutes a night behind Brad Miller, never mind that he cries when he doesn't start even though he sucks (shades of Kenny Thomas).

We need trades that are going to move this team forward rather than deals that only marginally improve the roster. The only types of players we should be trading for are 1) young players with potential, 2) expiring contracts or 3) nobrainer trades for stars.

 

[walker60]

The only types of players we should be trading for are 1) young players with potential, 2) expiring contracts or 3) nobrainer trades for stars.

I'm looking at our roster for players who have enough trade value to net one of those three things and I am not seeing anyone outside of Martin who could do it.

 

[nbrans]

I'm looking at our roster for players who have enough trade value to net one of those three things and I am not seeing anyone outside of Martin who could do it.

I don't agree. Artest, Bibby, Salmons, SAR, Garcia, our pick.. all of these guys have value for the right teams. KT could even be traded if you tack on a good asset with him, probably same with Brad. There's no one on this team who is untradeable. Kenyon Martin and Darius Miles are untradeable, the Kings don't have any injured/terrible players on massive contracts.

The Kings have options even if some guys don't have much value. That doesn't mean that a deal will get done, but it also isn't cause to make trades that get you nowhere.

 

[rhythmless]

mike bibby can go to a lot of teams at this point looking for a quality point guard. throughout his career, he has shown to be a great 2a or 2b option on a contending team... ala miami. people will continue to take the gamble on artest because on talent alone, he is an all star. brad miller is 7 feet, can shoot up to 3 point, and one of the best passing centers in this league. any team wanting to win now will look at these players, as they are veterans, and can still produce at a high level given the right players complimenting them.

 

[walker60]

I don't agree. Artest, Bibby, Salmons, SAR, Garcia, our pick.. all of these guys have value for the right teams. KT could even be traded if you tack on a good asset with him, probably same with Brad. There's no one on this team who is untradeable. Kenyon Martin and Darius Miles are untradeable, the Kings don't have any injured/terrible players on massive contracts.

The Kings have options even if some guys don't have much value. That doesn't mean that a deal will get done, but it also isn't cause to make trades that get you nowhere.

Alright I'll quickly go through the guys you mention and give you my opinion on what they are worth. If you disagree that is fair but I am trying to be as honest as possible.

Artest= I doubt anyone would be willing to give up much for Artest. We got him for an ailing Peja who was in a walk year and Artest hasn't done much to clean up his image since. The only reason he is tradeable at this point is because his contract is reasonable, otherwise we probably wouldn't have a chance. A team like the T'Wolves or Heat at this point would take him but really don't have much to give back.

Bibby= He makes big dollars so any trade will have to match salaries. I can't see someone giving up a combination of expiring contracts and young potential guys totaling 14 million to get their hands on a guy who is looking like he is wearing down. Again, he is a solid player still, but he's not going to get any of the three that you mention without us taking back some iffy contracts ourselves.

Salmons= A versatile yet spectacularly mediocre player who most of the board screamed about when we signed him last year. Again, he's decent, but what team would itching to get him? I just don't see him getting us much either. A wing player of his caliber isn't all that difficult to obtain.

SAR = Getting old and his deal isn't looking all that great either. Could be moved for an expiring perhaps for a team that really needs a low-post scorer.

Garcia = Cheaper version of Salmons. Could be used as a throw in to sweeten a deal perhaps.

Our pick= I think we need to hold on to that one.

Kenny Thomas = His albatross of a contract is going to be very difficult to move. The only way he gets shipped out is if we take somebody else's problem and that is the truth of it. Tacking him on to one of our more movable players would help a little, but we still are going to receive some unwanted junk along with whatever else we get.

Brad Miller = Also has a bad contract at this point and is coming off his worst season to date. Could be moved to a contending team but I don't see them giving up much for an aging Center like Brad.

Nobody will be banging down our door trying to get any of those guys.I just don't see where we are going to get expirings, young and cheap potential, or superstars out of that lot.

 

[rhythmless]

looked at hoopshype, and the heat are looking for a point guard seeing as how it doesnt look like jwill's knees are gonna hold up much logner. hes an expiring too...

what about bibby for jwill, wright (i know some people here wanted him), and their first round pick?

 

[Smills91]

looked at hoopshype, and the heat are looking for a point guard seeing as how it doesnt look like jwill's knees are gonna hold up much logner. hes an expiring too...

what about bibby for jwill, wright (i know some people here wanted him), and their first round pick?

regarding the heat...I easily see a

Bibby
Thomas

for

J-Will
Zo(who's looking to retire)
Walker
#20

as a reasonable potential deal this summer as well.

Inserting zo's salary for Doleac allows the Heat to keep a back-up C. The Walker swap allows the Heat to keep Wright(I'm okay not taking Wright) and the Thomas/Walker swap sheds a year off of Kenny's deal. The #20 pick could land us a solid player and Zo would be cap relief since he'd retire.

 

[AriesMar27]

then we'd be stuck with walker for 4 years... maybe the warriors would take him...

 

[Bricklayer]

Walker?

I wouldn't take Twoine back in a trade if you paid me to. He is, or should be, as unmoveable as KT. More talented, but completely unsuitable for virtually every role he's been tried in and at this point a lottery player.

So then we are trading Bibby away to get the #20 pick and...no.

 

[JoMama]

Walker?

I wouldn't take Twoine back in a trade if you paid me to. He is, or should be, as unmoveable as KT. More talented, but completely unsuitable for virtually every role he's been tried in and at this point a lottery player.

So then we are trading Bibby away to get the #20 pick and...no.

Bibby may still go to Cleveland in the off-season for Drew Gooden, a 6-10 center-forward who can rebound. No Haywood needed.
Agree wholeheartedly on Twoine/KT take.

 

[Bricklayer]

Mentioned before Gooden is no answer, is not 6'10", is soft, and is dumb. Otherwise he's a peach. Of course I would have said some similar things about Carlos Boozer last summer.

And the real risk/failure is that the Cavs, if they contiue having success this offseason, may no longer be as keepn on Bibby.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Good point about the Cavs, but I would think the Heat would now feel rather hard pressed to improve their PG spot, and even have some expirings (Doleac, Williams--a friendly face to boot) and some youth.

 

[Bricklayer]

Good point about the Cavs, but I would think the Heat would now feel rather hard pressed to improve their PG spot, and even have some expirings (Doleac, Williams--a friendly face to boot) and some youth.

That I would agree with -- always watch to see who had a season they were happy with, and who did not, and maybe think of pouncing on those who did not. Heat, Clippers, etc. Teams that will be unhappy and looking for a change.

Then all we have to do is figure out how to convince them that Kenny Thomas is the answer to all that ails them.

 

[JoMama]

According to Grant Napear, the all-time Kings organization kiss-butt, there's still a good chance the Bibby-Gooden deal will happen this off-season. Gooden is more like 6-8, but he's listed on the Cav's site as 6-10. And Jerry Reynolds is 6-5.

 

[nbrans]

To be fair to Antoine, he won a championship and played a big role in that run last year, but I think he somehow managed to age five years in the offseason.

And I don't know where the DrewGooden is not 6'10" myth started, but he was measured at the pre-draft camp as a full 6'10", and those are accurate measurements. I really don't like him as a player at all, but he's adequate size for a PF.

 

[JoMama]

^To be fair to Antoine, he won a championship and played a big role in that run last year, but I think he somehow managed to age five years in the offseason.

Plus, he looked like the Pillsbury Doughboy.

 

[rhythmless]

why would we want toine? he jacks up 3s, or stumbles into the lane like hes on skates. and why would the heat take k9? i think my original trade works well on both sides, depending on how well bibby bounces back, and how well we do in the draft.

 

[Smills91]

then we'd be stuck with walker for 4 years... maybe the warriors would take him...

Walker has a team option in two years which essentially sheds a year off of Kenny's deal which has 3 years left on it.

3 years minus 2 years = 1 less year of KT's deal on our books. Antoine IS more talented too, even if he plays dumb.

 

[Bricklayer]

Walker has a team option in two years which essentially sheds a year off of Kenny's deal which has 3 years left on it.

3 years minus 2 years = 1 less year of KT's deal on our books. Antoine IS more talented too, even if he plays dumb.

He's also in many ways even more of a problem, because he's fundamentally unable to play a role. He almost has to be made into a major player with responsibility because he does nothng roleplayers do. And Antoine Walker as major player = major problem.

 

[walker60]

Has it ever occured to anyone that in order to get rid of Kenny Thomas we may have to take back someone we aren't all that necessarily thrilled about? If the player has a shorter deal, then we would do it, even if it means we are getting Antione Walker.

Let's face it, we are rebuilding and this isn't going to be a quick turnaround. We need to get rid of all the crappy contracts we can, even if it means taking on slightly less crappy ones in return.

 

[SacTownKid]

regarding the heat...I easily see a

Bibby
Thomas

for

J-Will
Zo(who's looking to retire)
Walker
#20

as a reasonable potential deal this summer as well.

Inserting zo's salary for Doleac allows the Heat to keep a back-up C. The Walker swap allows the Heat to keep Wright(I'm okay not taking Wright) and the Thomas/Walker swap sheds a year off of Kenny's deal. The #20 pick could land us a solid player and Zo would be cap relief since he'd retire.

Well that deal looks somewhate simlar to what the Kings were said to be looking for. A pick, and expirings.

 

[AriesMar27]

Has it ever occured to anyone that in order to get rid of Kenny Thomas we may have to take back someone we aren't all that necessarily thrilled about? If the player has a shorter deal, then we would do it, even if it means we are getting Antione Walker.

Let's face it, we are rebuilding and this isn't going to be a quick turnaround. We need to get rid of all the crappy contracts we can, even if it means taking on slightly less crappy ones in return.

i would prefer to get rid of thomas for a bad player at a different position... a bad big for a bad small would be great...

 

[VF21]

Has it ever occured to anyone that in order to get rid of Kenny Thomas we may have to take back someone we aren't all that necessarily thrilled about? If the player has a shorter deal, then we would do it, even if it means we are getting Antione Walker.

Let's face it, we are rebuilding and this isn't going to be a quick turnaround. We need to get rid of all the crappy contracts we can, even if it means taking on slightly less crappy ones in return.

That's exactly the LAST thing I want them to do. That's how we got Thomas in the first place, remember?

If we can't get something we can actually use, then we might as well give KT the "Brent Price" treatment, as much as it hurts.

 

[rhythmless]

1.walker is a scorer. thats all he is. no defense, no hustle, and at the sf spot.
we dont need people at the sf


2. walker played 23 minutes last season, and almost half of his shots (300) were 3s. he made 27.5 percent of those. conversely, artest shot 40 less 3s than walker, and played 15 more minutes a game. he also made 36%.

3. what are you going to do with artest, walker, salmons, martin, garcia, AND douby? and nobody better suggest to give him time at the 4. he averaged 4 rebounds.

4. you want an over his prime tweener who gives you 9, 4, and 2 in 25 minutes? those are almost exactly sars numbers, only with less 3s (missed).

never thought id say this, but id rather have kenny thomas

 

[walker60]

That's exactly the LAST thing I want them to do. That's how we got Thomas in the first place, remember?

If we can't get something we can actually use, then we might as well give KT the "Brent Price" treatment, as much as it hurts.

That makes no sense to me because if you are going to just not play KT, then why not trade him in a package for Antoine Walker (who has a shorter deal) and do the same thing?? That's one less year of a bad contract...