The Official NBA Draft Day Thread 2014 Edition

[Prince_XY]

Malone was just on the radio and he said you can use "whatever point guard you like" and then Nik at the 2 Ben at the 3 Rudy at the 4.

Can somebody write something about what this coach had accomplished before being picked by Vivek to coach for the Kings?

I am beginning to think our coach is very dumb (rather than very inexperienced)

Maybe he should have added his favorite player Landry at 5.

It is like Smart all over again.

 

[Prince_XY]

As has been repeatedly pointed out, for all their flaws when Rudy and IT were paired with Cuz we were a .500 team.

,500 team?

I think hrdboiled is right in saying that is still leading the team nowhere.

 

[Albatros]

did you listen to the malone interview on khtk? he said something like offense is the first key to defense.

What he meant by that is not getting caught on run outs every time down the floor because we can't put the ball in the basket.

being able to get back and have a set defense will help, which is true.

 

[Gargamel]

Well, Van Exel also dropped (I'd say mainly dropped actually) because of attitude issues. The same attitude issues that were given as the reason he was later shipped from the Lakers to the Nuggets.

LA fan at the time. Nick most certainly dropped because of his tude. He was a clear cut lottery pick. I believe in 1992 he was NCAA 2nd team along with Grant Hill. The Fab Fivers narrowly beat Cincinnati that year in the tournament and Van Exel was the 2nd best player on the floor if it wasn't Juwan Howard. When he was doing the workout tour, he didn't show up for 2 workouts, excuses being girlfriend in a car accident, which was forgivable, but then the next one was blaming his agent's secretary for a mess-up with transportation. He worked out with George Karl and their personalities didn't meld very well. Karl said he told him to re-run a sprint and Nick told him to run it himself. Karl later said on camera about his Van Exel workout something like, "...you know...it's NOT like coaches don't talk to each other." Implication pretty strong there that he put out the vibe on Nick. You don't go from lottery talent to Siberia like that. That kind of drop on attitude is pretty damn impressive. West was lucky to get him, all the same. You know the 37th pick is usually useless. Lakers got George Lynch 12th that year; he was the lesser of the two guys. Nick started clashing with Del Harris from the outset in Nick's second year. Del wasn't prepared to deal with a Gen X guy like him.

I've been telling the Lakerfan that a young patchwork team needs another Delbert type guy. I think this is finally the time B-Scott gets the nod, his 3rd try for the job. He'll bring structure if not strategy (same as Del). Course, you can probably guess how easy it is for me to convince them Phil and Riles aren't walking thru that door...

 

[Hoovtrain]

As I said, nitpicky.

Nope, those are advanced stats I cited, so they should be taken as gospel

 

[King Baller]

The Warriors haven't had a single team that was a threat to win anything in the entire existence of the Sacramento Kings. Hell, before then. 40 years. Even their "good" teams, have until the very last 2 years, been run n gun gimmick squads with a strict ceiling. They have been a nothing franchise since before half of their fans were even born. Good for flash, dash, and not much else. To whatever degree they have threatened to change that in the last couple of years, a large chunk of that has been precisely turning their back on at least some of the losing philosophy infecting the entire franchise. Nellieball does not work. All offense no defense does not work. Shooters are not the key to everything.

While I don't disagree completely with your statement Brick I do have something to add

First off that statement could be turned around and used on the Kings. But I won't because I love the Kings I will only say the CWebb/Vlade era was brief if we are looking at a 40 year history.

The W's won it all in 1975. They had CWebbs rookie season (My Avatar is CWebb ROY, Note the lack of uniform.) There was the "Run TMC" era just before the CWebb year. Then that Cinderella season where Nellie's bunch ran the table on the Mavs. And now current success these past few seasons.

As a reformed W's fan I think Nelson's biggest failure was his inability to get along with a young Chris Webber. This was why I ceased following the W's. I have also always followed the Kings which I continue to do.

Anyhow my point is the two teams history of success if taken over a 40 history is spotty at best.

But now the Kings have an emerging Demarcus Cousins and Rudy Gay. There is a young prospect in Nik Staukas. The McRookies may still show us something. Evans, Acy, DWill add some mucsle. The Kings have wonderful owners with Vivek leading the way. Malone and crew are poised for an impact year if the squad remains stable after training camp and Pete does not trade half the team at midseason.

Go Kings!
KB

 

[Gargamel]

As a reformed W's fan I think Nelson's biggest failure was his inability to get along with a young Chris Webber. This was why I ceased following the W's. I have also always followed the Kings which I continue to do.

You got any details on exactly why that situation was so sour? When you think about it: You got a #1 pick the caliber of Webber and you trade him after his ROY season for Googs, basically. Hard to believe that actually happened at all, much less in a year.

 

[Hoovtrain]

You got any details on exactly why that situation was so sour? When you think about it: You got a #1 pick the caliber of Webber and you trade him after his ROY season for Googs, basically. Hard to believe that actually happened at all, much less in a year.

That team was awesome and so fun to watch. To bad Nellies a jackass and it fell apart so quickly.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

While I don't disagree completely with your statement Brick I do have something to add

First off that statement could be turned around and used on the Kings. But I won't because I love the Kings I will only say the CWebb/Vlade era was brief if we are looking at a 40 year history.

To Bricklayer's point, however, unlike the Warriors, the Kings were at least a threat to win something. Nobody on earth thinks that the Warriors were screwed out of a championship.

As a reformed W's fan I think Nelson's biggest failure was his inability to get along with a young Chris Webber. This was why I ceased following the W's. I have also always followed the Kings which I continue to do.

Nelson's "legacy" is the bane of this great sport. Like legendary Boston Globe curmudgeon Bob Ryan, I believe with all my heart Don Nelson and the three-point shot ruined basketball. And the thought that a team which, even now, you can still see the imprint of his "DNA" on, is being held up as a model example of anything, makes me ill.

 

[VF21]

LA fan at the time. Nick most certainly dropped because of his tude. He was a clear cut lottery pick. I believe in 1992 he was NCAA 2nd team along with Grant Hill. The Fab Fivers narrowly beat Cincinnati that year in the tournament and Van Exel was the 2nd best player on the floor if it wasn't Juwan Howard. When he was doing the workout tour, he didn't show up for 2 workouts, excuses being girlfriend in a car accident, which was forgivable, but then the next one was blaming his agent's secretary for a mess-up with transportation. He worked out with George Karl and their personalities didn't meld very well. Karl said he told him to re-run a sprint and Nick told him to run it himself. Karl later said on camera about his Van Exel workout something like, "...you know...it's NOT like coaches don't talk to each other." Implication pretty strong there that he put out the vibe on Nick. You don't go from lottery talent to Siberia like that. That kind of drop on attitude is pretty damn impressive. West was lucky to get him, all the same. You know the 37th pick is usually useless. Lakers got George Lynch 12th that year; he was the lesser of the two guys. Nick started clashing with Del Harris from the outset in Nick's second year. Del wasn't prepared to deal with a Gen X guy like him.

I've been telling the Lakerfan that a young patchwork team needs another Delbert type guy. I think this is finally the time B-Scott gets the nod, his 3rd try for the job. He'll bring structure if not strategy (same as Del). Course, you can probably guess how easy it is for me to convince them Phil and Riles aren't walking thru that door...

OMG! It's a Gargamel sighting! Good to see you, my cyber friend.

 

[swisshh]

What he meant by that is not getting caught on run outs every time down the floor because we can't put the ball in the basket.

being able to get back and have a set defense will help, which is true.

It is true. Ending your offense sets well then helps you play defense and puts you in better positions for transition D. However, a distributing PG would help more with that than another SG.

 

[Padrino]

did you listen to the malone interview on khtk? he said something like offense is the first key to defense.

i didn't listen, but i do hate when coaches/players say sh** like that. it literally means nothing. most nba championships are won with two-way basketball. it always works both ways; good offense is often the key to good defense, just as good defense is often the key to good offense...

 

[Bricklayer]

i didn't listen, but i do hate when coaches/players say sh** like that. it literally means nothing. most nba championships are won with two-way basketball. it always works both ways; good offense is often the key to good defense, just as good defense is often the key to good offense...

My larger concern is that when they say stuff like that, despite the kernel of truth in there, it sounds like a blatant excuse for not acquiring defensive personnel.

 

[VF21]

I quit listening to what coaches and front office personnel say to the media a long time ago, as far as gleaning anything valuable or insightful is concerned. It's what happens on the court that matters. All too often, media types ask questions that try and elicit a certain response. Coaches aren't public speakers, for the most part, and I'd prefer it if they all took the Popovich approach. One or two word answers and a glassy stare.

 

[sdballer]

I quit listening to what coaches and front office personnel say to the media a long time ago, as far as gleaning anything valuable or insightful is concerned. It's what happens on the court that matters. All too often, media types ask questions that try and elicit a certain response. Coaches aren't public speakers, for the most part, and I'd prefer it if they all took the Popovich approach. One or two word answers and a glassy stare.

Except in this case their responses clearly match the moves they've made with personnel.

 

[John Galt]

I don't disagree that smallball devotion is a road to ruin. But I don't think it is awful to have that card to play in spots either. Sometimes you pull the goalkeeper and I've decided to be enthusiastic about Stauskas. I am not disagreeing that we lack a defensively capable starting PG, a rim protector PF, and a defensive role player "kobe stopper". But with Nik's apparent work ethic I think he will become a competent starting SG defensively (maybe he can cover any team's third best guy). But with Nik alongside Ben and IT or Ben and Rudy... I don't really think we're in reasonable shape on defense.

I just don't hate the W's I guess, which was a bit of a sidetrack. I feel like the Kings were a legit threat for a while because we had Vlade and CWebb with a super coach, but I don't know if it was because we had a superior smash mouth defense first philosophy as opposed to the Ws as I think is being implied. The whole time Vlade/Webber/Adelman were together we had a window and were a threat, and ownership spent on the role players, and Petrie/Adelman (who knows which of them was the brains behind it - sometimes I really wonder whether Petrie was the naked emperor all along) really had a knack for surrounding Vlade/CWebb with the right guys.

The W's don't have that big man tandem at the core and aren't a championship threat yet, but why discount the really nice run they have had recently. I like watching the W's play a lot. No debating that they have been more entertaining than the Kings over the past 8 years. 3/8 playoffs is not just a little bit better than 0/8. And the last two years they gave some teams a tough run for their money.

 

[VF21]

Except in this case their responses clearly match the moves they've made with personnel.

But we don't know what plans they have, what players they may be trying very hard to acquire, what players they have to publicly support although they might like to privately smack them upside the head, etc. Coaches have to use the tools they're given by the front office. They have to put on a happy face even when what they've got is crap. On the rare occasion when a coach does publicly call out his players or his team, he's usually spotted shortly thereafter in the employment line.

All in all, Kings fans are IMHO being way too impatient. The Maloofs had years to poison the well. I'm giving Vivek, PDA and all the rest a bit more time to actually get it cleaned up.

What we see on the roster right now is not by any means the end result Vivek and Co hope to put on the court in the future.

 

[John Galt]

All in all, Kings fans are IMHO being way too impatient..

guilty as charged...

 

[sdballer]

But we don't know what plans they have, what players they may be trying very hard to acquire, what players they have to publicly support although they might like to privately smack them upside the head, etc. Coaches have to use the tools they're given by the front office. They have to put on a happy face even when what they've got is crap. On the rare occasion when a coach does publicly call out his players or his team, he's usually spotted shortly thereafter in the employment line.

All in all, Kings fans are IMHO being way too impatient. The Maloofs had years to poison the well. I'm giving Vivek, PDA and all the rest a bit more time to actually get it cleaned up.

What we see on the roster right now is not by any means the end result Vivek and Co hope to put on the court in the future.

That's fair but speaking for myself, all I'm asking for is some indication that defensive balance is important to the front office. I'm not looking for championships (or even playoffs right now). I just want to see that they give as much consideration to constructing some semblance of a team that values the things that eventually leads to winning basketball.

All they talk about is offense, exciting basketball and their moves have reflected that.

Their words plus actions combined with their backgrounds are what concerns me, not the fact that we didn't win 60 games.

 

[sdballer]

I don't disagree that smallball devotion is a road to ruin. But I don't think it is awful to have that card to play in spots either. Sometimes you pull the goalkeeper and I've decided to be enthusiastic about Stauskas. I am not disagreeing that we lack a defensively capable starting PG, a rim protector PF, and a defensive role player "kobe stopper". But with Nik's apparent work ethic I think he will become a competent starting SG defensively (maybe he can cover any team's third best guy). But with Nik alongside Ben and IT or Ben and Rudy... I don't really think we're in reasonable shape on defense.

I just don't hate the W's I guess, which was a bit of a sidetrack. I feel like the Kings were a legit threat for a while because we had Vlade and CWebb with a super coach, but I don't know if it was because we had a superior smash mouth defense first philosophy as opposed to the Ws as I think is being implied. The whole time Vlade/Webber/Adelman were together we had a window and were a threat, and ownership spent on the role players, and Petrie/Adelman (who knows which of them was the brains behind it - sometimes I really wonder whether Petrie was the naked emperor all along) really had a knack for surrounding Vlade/CWebb with the right guys.

The W's don't have that big man tandem at the core and aren't a championship threat yet, but why discount the really nice run they have had recently. I like watching the W's play a lot. No debating that they have been more entertaining than the Kings over the past 8 years. 3/8 playoffs is not just a little bit better than 0/8. And the last two years they gave some teams a tough run for their money.

If you're going to emulate a franchise and style of play, pick one that makes it out of the first round more than once a decade and one that doesn't build their philosophy off not have a true low post presence.

 

[rainmaker]

Malone has always preached that. Everyone thinks that because he's a defensive specialist that he wants defensive players. That's never been what he's talked about. His big thing in GS was team defense... getting the most out of a team with mainly offense first players and no plus plus defenders. He wants to get guys that are lights out offensive players and help them defend better.

I swear after getting our butts kicked defensively earlier last season, he went off in the postgame about our players not being good enough and needing better ones. He regularly in postgames commented on not being able to stop perimeter penetration.

That to me says he wants better defenders.

 

[King Baller]

You got any details on exactly why that situation was so sour? When you think about it: You got a #1 pick the caliber of Webber and you trade him after his ROY season for Googs, basically. Hard to believe that actually happened at all, much less in a year.

Ultimately I hold Nelson responsible since he should have been the wiser more mature person. In those days we as fans did not get as much info. No internet you know But the gist of it is that Nelson played Webber at Center too much and they just clashed.

Here is an excerpt from an article that details part of the story with a link added at the end:

Warriors fans are generally aware of what happened next, but since the details often get lost in the emotions of the situation, a brief recap:

• Ric Bucher of ESPN described how even before signing Webber, Nelson informed him he'd be playing center instead of around the perimeter. "He wanted to be Magic Johnson," recalls Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, another Nelson assistant at the time. "We wanted him to be more like Karl Malone."
• Steve Kettman of Slam Online told the story of how Webber eventually gained sway in the Warriors' locker room and the tension came to a head during a game on February 9, 1994 against the Charlotte Hornets when Nelson pulled Webber after a flashy pass. Webber eventually asked out, threatening to use his opt-out clause.
• Marc Stein of ESPN has reported that after recognizing that he was losing this battle, Nelson wanted out to take a position with former assistant Gregg Poppovich who became the GM of the San Antonio Spurs on May 31, 1994. Owner Jim Fitzgerald wouldn't let Nelson out of his contract because incoming owner Chris Cohan wanted him to be the coach moving forward. Cohan's insistence on keeping Nelson led to the trade of Webber.
• Nelson, of course, left the Warriors during that same 1994-95 season after a 14-31 start.

Kettman describes those events as leaving, "...the dreams of a Warrior ascendancy...in wreckage, and the careers of both Nelson and Webber took major hit."

Link---> http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2012/9/5/3295034/disappointment-day-golden-

 

[VF21]

That's fair but speaking for myself, all I'm asking for is some indication that defensive balance is important to the front office. I'm not looking for championships (or even playoffs right now). I just want to see that they give as much consideration to constructing some semblance of a team that values the things that eventually leads to winning basketball.

All they talk about is offense, exciting basketball and their moves have reflected that.

Their words plus actions combined with their backgrounds are what concerns me, not the fact that we didn't win 60 games.

Oh please believe me - I know exactly where you're coming from. I view it differently only in that I'm not as worried about the interim product as I am the final result. I think we're going to see more shifting, refining, etc. as TPTB try to get rid of all the detritus and temporary filler players on their way to building a real TEAM.

I have faith in Malone, for the simple reason I think he's trying to put the best spin possible on an impossible situation. I do recall his unguarded comments after a couple of pretty disappointing losses last season. I believe he wants to win and I believe he wants to put a truly competitive team on the court every night. The frustration of not being able to do so must be very hard to deal with...

 

[King Baller]

IMO most good teams have at least two players who are very good defenders:

Spurs - Duncan & Leonard
Heat - James and a healthy Wade
Mavs - Chandler & Marion
Lakers - Bynum, Bryant, Artest & sometimes Odom
Celtics - Garnett, Allen and Perkins

The Kings are still looking for those two guys unless someone on the team develops into a defensive stud. They had Tyreke but I think they placed too little emphasis on that side of the ball game. As of today I would take Tyreke over Rondo as my PG, but thats just me. They also had Dalembert but I'm not even going to go into the pre-Vivek days

KB

 

[Kingster]

I find it hard to believe that the Kings would give up on McLemore after one season. That's like giving up on Peja one season. If you want to trade the guy you develop him as a player to increase his value, not trade him at a bargain basement price. I thought the last month of this past season saw McLemore come on like gangbusters. His ball handling was dramatically improved, his shot was better, his defense was better, his confidence was better. Unless you can some idiot GM to make a trade for a budding star at another position, I'd sit tight and watch both McLemore and Stauskas improve their games this coming year.

 

[hrdboild]

IMO most good teams have at least two players who are very good defenders:

Spurs - Duncan & Leonard
Heat - James and a healthy Wade
Mavs - Chandler & Marion
Lakers - Bynum, Bryant, Artest & sometimes Odom
Celtics - Garnett, Allen and Perkins

The Kings are still looking for those two guys unless someone on the team develops into a defensive stud. They had Tyreke but I think they placed too little emphasis on that side of the ball game. As of today I would take Tyreke over Rondo as my PG, but thats just me. They also had Dalembert but I'm not even going to go into the pre-Vivek days

KB

I'll be the first to admit that I'm impatient for some tangible signs of progress and that's mostly because of the previous regime and not fair to this one. I strongly agree though that we need two good defenders in the starting lineup eventually. I thought maybe we could make that happen this summer with Payton and Sanders but I 'll just have to wait and see.

 

[swisshh]

I'm really tired of hearing about Chris Mullin winning a 3pt shooting contest. That shouldn't surprise people. It shouldn't surprise NBA management. If you're a shooter, aging doesn't change that.

 

[King Baller]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm impatient for some tangible signs of progress and that's mostly because of the previous regime and not fair to this one. I strongly agree though that we need two good defenders in the starting lineup eventually. I thought maybe we could make that happen this summer with Payton and Sanders but I 'll just have to wait and see.

Agreed, I'm also going to remain positive and see what develops. I like what Vivek, Pete, Malone and crew have done (mostly). I would have liked to have seen more up to this point but hey I'm a FANatic. And by more I mean at least one Defensive Stud. At this point I hope they keep Evans and JT if they are not bringing another player to guard the 4 and 5 position. I don't want to see Cousins forced to guard the best Big every night.

 

[Chubbs]

I find it hard to believe that the Kings would give up on McLemore after one season. That's like giving up on Peja one season. If you want to trade the guy you develop him as a player to increase his value, not trade him at a bargain basement price. I thought the last month of this past season saw McLemore come on like gangbusters. His ball handling was dramatically improved, his shot was better, his defense was better, his confidence was better. Unless you can some idiot GM to make a trade for a budding star at another position, I'd sit tight and watch both McLemore and Stauskas improve their games this coming year.

You've made sense to me twice today. Are you ok?

I totally agree. Ben isn't going anywhere.

It's the same stuff around here always. Just wait for the next move. Just wait till free agency starts, etc. etc. I don't think there are any next moves. We just have no assets to move.

The only move left is to sign IT. And I think they will barring a huge offer from someone else (which seems increasingly unlikely with the Magic seemingly now set at PG). And then hope everyone had a good summer and got better I guess.

 

[dude12]

You've made sense to me twice today. Are you ok?

I totally agree. Ben isn't going anywhere.

It's the same stuff around here always. Just wait for the next move. Just wait till free agency starts, etc. etc. I don't think there are any next moves. We just have no assets to move.

The only move left is to sign IT. And I think they will barring a huge offer from someone else (which seems increasingly unlikely with the Magic seemingly now set at PG). And then hope everyone had a good summer and got better I guess.

Regarding IT, they do have a move...I personally don't think they want IT, why else would you tell the NBA world, "we want IT back but our best offer is $6 mill". Here come teams with $7 mill to offer. A sign and trade is a real possibility.