The Official Lottery Thread - Kings get #5 and #10

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OMFG I DONT' KNOW HOW TO FEEL.

I'm ****ing ecstatic we jumped from 8 to 5, but that dumbass trade cost us the #3. But then again, we might not be in this position of rebuilding with young talent if Vlade didn't do that horrid trade. OMG. OMG

OMG
Just relax and enjoy the ride. :)

If there was no pick swap, there is no guarantee we would had landed the #5.

We may have tried to tank a little harder and we could had wound up at #6 or #7 pre-lotto and would had dropped to 7 or 8 post lotto, when #8 jumped into the lotto.

Like I have said, with the Kings luck, if we owned our pick outright, I don't think we could had moved up to #5 without a little help from Philly's luck! ;)

Anyways, I don't see a huge difference picking at #3 or #5 talent wise in this draft.

I feel that the possible players available at #5, Fox, Tatum, Jackson (and maybe DSJ) are in the same talent class. :)
 
I guess I worded it poorly but I was trying to be realistic.

I just don't see any possible way we are anything other than a lottery team in 2018. We're going to have Temple, Kofous, maybe a Collison or Lawson and a whole bunch of young kids that are going to be out of place and lost on the court half the time. I mean at the end of last year, WCS looked like one of our more polished vets and it was only a month or two before hand where he was the guy out there who was lost half the time. That's how far the on court IQ dropped after the Cousins trade.

Me personally, I'm going to be looking at player development more than the W/L column. These young guys are still constantly going to be having to think about where they need to be on the court and that's just not going to translate into many wins. Either way I'm excited to see if Skal can destroy guys in the post and push his shot out to the 3 point line. I'd like to see Papa plug up the paint and flash some of those Gasol like skills. Hield, I'd like to see if last years small sample was a flash in the pan or if this guy is going to get even better. Is Richardson going to be a Lou Williams spark off the bench? Will Bogdan come over and will he be effective like he is in Europe? Is WCS going to continue to show us things we didn't think he even had in him? Will our new rookies show the potential that everyone is expecting from this top heavy draft? There's going to be a lot of things to look for and excited about but I won't be crossing my fingers for wins until after next season.
Yeah I think you worded it wrong. I think lotto next year is probable and not the worst thing that could happen. When all of this went down I decided it was a two year project with playoffs in 2019 when we lose that pick the ultimate goal.

That said, jumping up to 5 seems to have given us a shot at a much higher caliber of talent than 8, and really the difference between 3 and 5 accounting for team needs seems ok as well. Seems like fortune is smiling upon us, so "best" case is now a playoff run which can attract quality free agents in 2018 to even further mitigate the loss of the 2019 pick.
 
I still maintain I might have just liked 8/10 without the swap embarrassment, but it does give more choices

And Vlade now officially has some explaining to do about that Sixers trade
 
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I still maintain I might have just liked 8/10 without the swap embarrassment, but it does give more choices

And Vlade now officially has some explaining to do about that Sixers trade
Oh come on, now you're just being silly! You'd prefer picking 8 vs 5 due to what, pride?

And at the time of the pick swap trade, we were trying to make the playoffs with Cuz, while Philly was on year whatever of fielding a team of D-leagers. It's not Vlade's fault Vivek was so wishy washy on competing vs tanking.

Dropping from 3 to 5 in a draft with 5-6 guys in the "Tier 2" beneath Fultz isn't a big deal.
 
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I still maintain I might have just liked 8/10 without the swap embarrassment, but it does give more choices

And Vlade now officially has some explaining to do about that Sixers trade
Why? He moved down two slots. If he had lost the first, then maybe some hand-wringing. He took a calculated gamble, he lost. I'm glad we moved up despite any swap embarrassment.
 
Why? He moved down two slots. If he had lost the first, then maybe some hand-wringing. He took a calculated gamble, he lost. I'm glad we moved up despite any swap embarrassment.
It may take some time to get used to the draft position. I'm used to viewing the tiers

Fultz/Jackson
Ball
Fox/Smith/Tatum/DSJ/Markannen/Collins/Isaac/Nkitlina - with a lot of 4-11 interchangeability. Or that Fox and Smith/Nkitlina etc are a coin toss

Maybe it's time to get to appreciating Fox/Tatum as higher prospects or what have you for me

It does fan the flames of the national media that the swap happened
 
I guess I worded it poorly but I was trying to be realistic.

I just don't see any possible way we are anything other than a lottery team in 2018. We're going to have Temple, Kofous, maybe a Collison or Lawson and a whole bunch of young kids that are going to be out of place and lost on the court half the time. I mean at the end of last year, WCS looked like one of our more polished vets and it was only a month or two before hand where he was the guy out there who was lost half the time. That's how far the on court IQ dropped after the Cousins trade.

Me personally, I'm going to be looking at player development more than the W/L column. These young guys are still constantly going to be having to think about where they need to be on the court and that's just not going to translate into many wins. Either way I'm excited to see if Skal can destroy guys in the post and push his shot out to the 3 point line. I'd like to see Papa plug up the paint and flash some of those Gasol like skills. Hield, I'd like to see if last years small sample was a flash in the pan or if this guy is going to get even better. Is Richardson going to be a Lou Williams spark off the bench? Will Bogdan come over and will he be effective like he is in Europe? Is WCS going to continue to show us things we didn't think he even had in him? Will our new rookies show the potential that everyone is expecting from this top heavy draft? There's going to be a lot of things to look for and excited about but I won't be crossing my fingers for wins until after next season.
The way you just worded it, I agree. I don't think it's likely that we end up in the playoffs next year, and to barely sneak into the playoffs (like Portland) only to become fodder for a #1 or 2 team, well, that's not the best path forward either. But to have everything begin to jell down the home stretch and to sneak in to the playoffs and win a game (or maybe two), that to me is a best case scenario for this team. Unrealistic? Maybe. But it's not that far off in fantasyland that we should be embarrassed to think it possible.
 
Embarrassment? Hate to disagree, but I'm not in the least embarrassed considering the outcome. Vlade has no explaining to do IMHO.
Well, I wouldn't go that far - it was still a terrible trade.

But people preferring 8 & 10 over 5 & 10 to avoid "swap embarrassment"? I think that's ridiculous.

The Kings got a better pick. It's a good thing.

And besides, there was one huge prize in this draft and that's Fultz. I don't think the difference between 3 & 5 in this draft is very large. But the difference between 5 & 8 definitely is.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
Well, I wouldn't go that far - it was still a terrible trade.

But people preferring 8 & 10 over 5 & 10 to avoid "swap embarrassment"? I think that's ridiculous.

The Kings got a better pick. It's a good thing.

And besides, there was one huge prize in this draft and that's Fultz. I don't think the difference between 3 & 5 in this draft is very large. But the difference between 5 & 8 definitely is.
Not sure I understand your objection. The OP was saying Vlade still owes explanations because we had to do the swap. I think that ship sailed. I'm sorry if people want to continue to wring their hands over sunk costs. I'm over it.

We're drafting twice in the top 10. We didn't lose the Pelicans pick and we didn't move up so far in the lottery that we had to forfeit the #1 pick.

Some people around here are just still so hell-bent on finding the dark lining to any silver cloud that it makes it difficult sometimes to understand if anything would ever make them happy. It's way too exhausting. I'm gonna enjoy this off-season and look forward to next year in a way I haven't done in a long time.

It's a good time to be a Kings fan. Drama be damned.
 
Not sure I understand your objection. The OP was saying Vlade still owes explanations because we had to do the swap. I think that ship sailed. I'm sorry if people want to continue to wring their hands over sunk costs. I'm over it.

It's a good time to be a Kings fan. Drama be damned.
I guess my objection is absolving Vlade of guilt for the negative effects of a bad deal he made just because it happened a couple years ago.

I'm not going to dwell on it now because I'm happy with where the Kings currently are. But it doesn't mean I'm not going to be upset again in 2019 when that same terrible deal costs the Kings their 1st rounder and the Kings have zero to show for it.
 
The way you just worded it, I agree. I don't think it's likely that we end up in the playoffs next year, and to barely sneak into the playoffs (like Portland) only to become fodder for a #1 or 2 team, well, that's not the best path forward either. But to have everything begin to jell down the home stretch and to sneak in to the playoffs and win a game (or maybe two), that to me is a best case scenario for this team. Unrealistic? Maybe. But it's not that far off in fantasyland that we should be embarrassed to think it possible.
I didn't catch the audio on NBA radio today but I think from the tease before the break they said they interviewed Joeger before the draft last night and he said he doesn't expect the Kings to make the playoffs for three years.

Anyone catch the interview? I may be wrong
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
I guess my objection is absolving Vlade of guilt for the negative effects of a bad deal he made just because it happened a couple years ago.

I'm not going to dwell on it now because I'm happy with where the Kings currently are. But it doesn't mean I'm not going to be upset again in 2019 when that same terrible deal costs the Kings their 1st rounder and the Kings have zero to show for it.
I'm back to viewing things through my purple-tinted lenses. I'm sure we'll have such a low first round pick because of our dramatic increase in team performance during the year that it won't hurt us that badly. :p
 
I didn't catch the audio on NBA radio today but I think from the tease before the break they said they interviewed Joeger before the draft last night and he said he doesn't expect the Kings to make the playoffs for three years.

Anyone catch the interview? I may be wrong
That would be a reasonable assessment. Teams in our position don't turn things around overnight. Part of the problem in this long playoff drought has been impatient owners putting pressure on the front office to make something happen ASAP-- whether that means making ill-advised trades, packaging picks to create cap space, drafting "NBA ready" players over higher ceiling prospects with longer development curves, investing cap space in past their prime veterans. Coach Joerger has been through this process with Memphis -- he was there as an assistant coach when they traded Pau Gasol to the Lakers and bottomed out at 22 wins. Three years later that team was in the playoffs largely on the strength of the rookies they developed in house. That's our model. They had some draft busts along the way (OJ Mayo, Hasheem Thabeet, Xavier Henry) but Mike Conley and Rudy Gay were solid picks and Marc Gasol went from trade throw-in to 3 time All-Star. They also made a key trade for Zach Randolph and signed Tony Allen as a free agent. All of this is doable. Finally having a front office and coaching staff that we can trust is the most important factor.
 
That would be a reasonable assessment. Teams in our position don't turn things around overnight. Part of the problem in this long playoff drought has been impatient owners putting pressure on the front office to make something happen ASAP-- whether that means making ill-advised trades, packaging picks to create cap space, drafting "NBA ready" players over higher ceiling prospects with longer development curves, investing cap space in past their prime veterans. Coach Joerger has been through this process with Memphis -- he was there as an assistant coach when they traded Pau Gasol to the Lakers and bottomed out at 22 wins. Three years later that team was in the playoffs largely on the strength of the rookies they developed in house. That's our model. They had some draft busts along the way (OJ Mayo, Hasheem Thabeet, Xavier Henry) but Mike Conley and Rudy Gay were solid picks and Marc Gasol went from trade throw-in to 3 time All-Star. They also made a key trade for Zach Randolph and signed Tony Allen as a free agent. All of this is doable. Finally having a front office and coaching staff that we can trust is the most important factor.
I mean, I don't like the coach saying that if he did. Joerger's style continues to run me non smoothly if that's the case
 
Not sure I understand your objection. The OP was saying Vlade still owes explanations because we had to do the swap. I think that ship sailed. I'm sorry if people want to continue to wring their hands over sunk costs. I'm over it.

We're drafting twice in the top 10. We didn't lose the Pelicans pick and we didn't move up so far in the lottery that we had to forfeit the #1 pick.

Some people around here are just still so hell-bent on finding the dark lining to any silver cloud that it makes it difficult sometimes to understand if anything would ever make them happy. It's way too exhausting. I'm gonna enjoy this off-season and look forward to next year in a way I haven't done in a long time.

It's a good time to be a Kings fan. Drama be damned.
Some people just like that grape kool aid, and will find any reason possible to see things with a positive spin. Not that that's a bad thing, though kind of campy at times. I'm sure it's easier to live with that angle
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
I mean, I don't like the coach saying that if he did. Joerger's style continues to run me non smoothly if that's the case
You don't like the coach not putting forth unreasonable projections for the future? You'd rather he said that we'd be in the playoffs? Again, I find myself wondering if anything about the Kings doesn't rub you the wrong way. Seriously.
 
You don't like the coach not putting forth unreasonable projections for the future? You'd rather he said that we'd be in the playoffs? Again, I find myself wondering if anything about the Kings doesn't rub you the wrong way. Seriously.
Most of the Kings stuff doesn't rub me wrong. I'm high on the youth of this team, everyobe under 25, save WCS. Malachi/Buddy/Bogdan can be ballers on the wing. I think Papa will be a solid skilled center. I love me Skal. I love the picks. And even WCS is a solid, valued trade asset this summer. I love the arena. I love Temple and AT as people.

Joerger, I mean, I don't understand the overwhelming perception towards him. I thought the record with Cousins wasn't stellar. He kinda was snooty to the media and took undercover jabs at the Cousins trade. I mean I don't need him fired, but, I want to hear that we can make the playoffs and he competitive, i think it encourages better. And I need something tangible to believe he's the A list coach I think he's assumed as. Though, again, I think he's not a bad coach
 
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@ockingsfan

While your point is certainly understood, the #5 pick wasn't a direct benefit from the Cousins trade or from New Orleans. Sure, it's an indirect benefit, but it doesn't count as an asset received. Including it is an embellishment.

Also, I believe the 2nd round pick is from Philly and not New Orleans?
 
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Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
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@ockingsfan

While your point is certainly understood, the #5 pick wasn't a direct benefit from the Cousins trade or from New Orleans. Sure, it's an indirect benefit, but it doesn't count as an asset received. Including it is an embellishment.

Also, I believe the 2nd round pick is from Philly and not New Orleans?
It's Philly's pick, but it was sent to New Orleans in some previous deal and New Orleans sent it to us in the Cousins trade.
 
@ockingsfan

While your point is certainly understood, the #5 pick wasn't a direct benefit from the Cousins trade or from New Orleans. Sure, it's an indirect benefit, but it doesn't count as an asset received. Including it is an embellishment.

Also, I believe the 2nd round pick is from Philly and not New Orleans?
The second round pick is from philly originally. New Orleans acquired it from a trading Ish Smith to the sixers in 2015-16.
 
When it comes to the swap and Sixers trade, what is done is done. Just like the cousins trade. No use dwelling on it. What is important is that the kings have the 5th pick, which 3 spots better than they should have had, and the 10th pick in a very good draft. It doesnt matter if jaeger says "3 years" if the talent is good enough they will win when they are ready. The important thing is that the kings focus on developing their talent and, more importantly, the team. The Kings have picked their course and now they need to stick to it.
 
@ockingsfan

While your point is certainly understood, the #5 pick wasn't a direct benefit from the Cousins trade or from New Orleans. Sure, it's an indirect benefit, but it doesn't count as an asset received. Including it is an embellishment.

Also, I believe the 2nd round pick is from Philly and not New Orleans?
Correct, the #5 pick was not directly from new Orleans, but vlade factored in the high likelyhood we would lose our pick this year to Chicago (top 10 protected) if DMC was not traded mid season.

Vlade had said so himself in post trade interviews, that keeping our pick this year was part of the reason he made the trade mid-season, instead of waiting until the summer.

Considering we were ahead of new Orleans when the trade was made (and they finished #10) and the easier part of our schedule was the end of the season, it is reasonable to conclude that if vlade didn't trade DMC when he did, we would had wound up #11-14 and lost our pick.

So, did our #5 pick come directly from new Orleans, no. But, it was part of the total package that vlade traded for, when he dealt DMC mid-season with the goal of retaining our own pick and starting the rebuild when he did.
 
When coach said he expects three years before making the playoffs he is saying exactly what he should. It takes the pressure off the youth. Setbacks become less detrimental to morale. Higher morale equates to a situation more conducive to learning from mistakes rather than lamenting them.

Now if you believe he himself and the team wont bust their tails to try and beat that timeframe, I don't know what to tell you. Well I do, but I wont.
 
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