The Official Cut Derrick Williams Thread

[ShastaKingsFan]

Which really baffles me we just hear this position less nonsense and offense what happened to the defense.

They're doing the best they can, without constantly harping on it to the media. They brought in two shot blockers in Hollins and Moreland. Cousins is improved and talking about it. The point guard position is improved defensively. The first round pick, Stauskas, has talked over and over again about working hard and improving

 

[Chupacabra]

Looking back, some of us were not fond of the trade when it went down. Moute had just settled into his lockdown mode guarding positions 1-4, including an awesome stint against Chris Paul...and the feeling of changing the defensive "culture" was starting to take place. He would be a valuable player to have with this current roster

I wasn't fond of the trade. We were starting to develop an edge and an identity right before the swap. Mbah was playing nasty defense.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I wasn't fond of the trade. We were starting to develop an edge and an identity right before the swap. Mbah was playing nasty defense.

He really was. I hadn't seen the type of defensive specialist play against multiple positions, for a long time

 

[Chupacabra]

He really was. I hadn't seen the type of defensive specialist play against multiple positions, for a long time

I'm not nearly as upset about signing Landry as I am about gift packaging Robin Lopez and handing Portland their starting center and trading away the Prince of Cameroon for the human question mark. Imagine this team with Lopez and Mbah.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I'm not nearly as upset about signing Landry as I am about gift packaging Robin Lopez and handing Portland their starting center and trading away the Prince of Cameroon for the human question mark. Imagine this team with Lopez and Mbah.

It does seem that Moute would be available. He wouldn't seem to fit with what Philly is building and where they are currently with that transition. Would they be interested in a young shooting guard?

 

[King Baller]

Bench fodder for sure in the short term. Then trade asset due to expiring contract. One thing to keep in mind is that he is still only 23

It does seem that Moute would be available. He wouldn't seem to fit with what Philly is building and where they are currently with that transition. Would they be interested in a young shooting guard?

Philly probably will keep Mbah around so their latest First Round Pick Joel Embiid has company. They both are Cameroonian-born.

 

[ForlornKing]

I'm okay with them not talking as much on defense this year. We all know our defense is horrid, but if we can put the ball in the basket our defense will already be that much better since we can then have time to set up our defense. I think that's the philosophy this year.

 

[CruzDude]

Well, he might be worth a couple of 2nd rounders from someone who needs what ever it is he brings along with the "upside" again, whatever that is.

 

[sdballer]

I'm okay with them not talking as much on defense this year. We all know our defense is horrid, but if we can put the ball in the basket our defense will already be that much better since we can then have time to set up our defense. I think that's the philosophy this year.

A losers philosophy

 

[funkykingston]

I'm not nearly as upset about signing Landry as I am about gift packaging Robin Lopez and handing Portland their starting center and trading away the Prince of Cameroon for the human question mark. Imagine this team with Lopez and Mbah.

Both of those moves bothered me. I didn't like letting Tyreke take the Pelicans offer sheet but I felt a little better when I saw the Kings were getting Vasquez (who I saw as a weak defending system PG) but also Lopez who was a solid backup big.

Lopez and Mbah a Moute should both be Kings. And even as a guy that liked Lopez I can't pretend that I thought he'd play as well as he did last season for Portland. He could have started at Center, letting Cuz play PF and had Jason Thompson as the third big. As an added bonus it would have sapped the money needed to sign Landry.

 

[ForlornKing]

A losers philosophy

How so?

 

[Prince_XY]

Derrick Williams's career looks like following Michael Beasley's, but I am still okay with him as our 2nd/3rd string SF. At least he's got NO OFF-COURT DRAMAS and character-wise he is decent. I still believe he's got enough talent to be considered an insurance in case Gay gets injured. There were times he was adequate when he was the starting SF for us which I also admit seems like a long time ago.

Pay him much more less money on his next contract (on the level of Casspi's salary) and I think nobody will complain.

We need an athletic and bigger body to match-up with the type of SF players in the mold of Lebron and Anthony. I don't think Casspi is athletic enough to qualify.

 

[sdballer]

How so?

Any defensive system built around trying to outscore opponents is a loser's philosophy. Sure we can argue that making baskets allows us to set up our d but scoring the ball hasn't been an issue. It's getting stops which does require better defensive players. There is a reason Denver and GS never win anything.

 

[The_Jamal]

Any defensive system built around trying to outscore opponents is a loser's philosophy. Sure we can argue that making baskets allows us to set up our d but scoring the ball hasn't been an issue. It's getting stops which does require better defensive players. There is a reason Denver and GS never win anything.

GS has actually been a very good defensive team for 2 years now, one of the better ones in the NBA. So that tired excuse doesn't really hold up anymore.

 

[sdballer]

GS has actually been a very good defensive team for 2 years now, one of the better ones in the NBA. So that tired excuse doesn't really hold up anymore.

Gs finally has good defensive players.

Fact is that the franchises that have deliberately ignored defense while focusing solely on out scoring opponents have a dismal history. Not really much to debate here.

 

[Prince_XY]

Lopez and Mbah a Moute should both be Kings. And even as a guy that liked Lopez I can't pretend that I thought he'd play as well as he did last season for Portland. He could have started at Center, letting Cuz play PF and had Jason Thompson as the third big. As an added bonus it would have sapped the money needed to sign Landry.

I fully agree. But you might get an opposition with that idea if I may quote some post.

Cousins is rapidly on his way to being the best center in the game today. You don't take away from that by moving him to the 4 and having a lesser being start at the 5. Seriously.

 

[KingMilz]

D-Will with his typical game/half/quarter where you think for a second he can play only for the next 5-10 games for him to pull a knife and stab you in the heart. His lack of confidence most the time really hurts him, most people on here seem to think he doesn't care but I have a different view I think most the time he's afraid which hurts his confidence and therefore he just looks lost cause he's passive/doesn't attempt to do anything.

It's like he's afraid to fail/succeed at the NBA level cause the difference between confident D-Will/ non confident D-Will is massive.

 

[Chicken Chaser]

I'm pretty sure all this talk about bust and trades has gotten to him. I hope he enjoyed his trip to China, because that's where he might be playing next. (I'm an butthead, but I've been waiting to use that one for too long.)

 

[The Hammer]

I hate weed. The stuff people smoke nowadays is insanely strong. I think there are a good number of NBA players that smoke it regularly. Total wild guess, but D Will strikes me as a pot head. I think it severely affects a person's emotional/mental development.

Just my totally out of the blue, biased, judgemental opinion.

 

[jdbraver]

I hate weed. The stuff people smoke nowadays is insanely strong. I think there are a good number of NBA players that smoke it regularly. Total wild guess, but D Will strikes me as a pot head. I think it severely affects a person's emotional/mental development.

Just my totally out of the blue, biased, judgemental opinion.

Maybe a tad extreme here? Question his play...sure. Accuse him of using drugs with zero evidence...not so cool.

 

[The Hammer]

Maybe a tad extreme here? Question his play...sure. Accuse him of using drugs with zero evidence...not so cool.

Please.

Did you not read the last line of my post?

And the "evidence" (we're not doing forensics here, Dexter) is casual observation. Because this is a casual fan board. For making casual observations.

 

[Chicken Chaser]

Casual observation: Wasn't it Keon Clark who admitted to playing every game intoxicated/drunk? He was still pretty effective. I honestly doubt D.Will is getting high before games, or at practice, or in Chinese hotels. Could he do it in the private of his own home at the end of the night? Who knows. Did he do it in college? No idea. Was he still effective in the NCAA? Ya--enough hype to be drafted #2.

So, you know, think before throwing drug use as an excuse for D.Will's poor play. We're all entitled to our opinions, but throwing out baseless accusations is just inviting a critical reply.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Any defensive system built around trying to outscore opponents is a loser's philosophy. Sure we can argue that making baskets allows us to set up our d but scoring the ball hasn't been an issue. It's getting stops which does require better defensive players. There is a reason Denver and GS never win anything.

I don't know if scoring the ball hasn't been an issue. The Kings were 20th in offensive rating and 23rd and defensive rating last season, so everything needed help.

 

[206Fan]

Gs finally has good defensive players.

Fact is that the franchises that have deliberately ignored defense while focusing solely on out scoring opponents have a dismal history. Not really much to debate here.

The reason why we suck on defense is because the players don't have desire to play D. It always seemed like Ben was floating around maybe 10ft away from his man. IT was quick, but he always seemed a little lazy. He dragged off of his man a lot and sometimes gave them a lot of room to shoot over him...this can probably be said for Rudy too. They both did not put even at least 70% into defense.

Cousins had 0 desire to play defense last year because he was always pissed on offense. The reputation he has, I think he deserves. He does little dirty plays every time when he's pissed and gets away with a lot of little things. Cousins needs to take his anger out on defense much more. I'm tired of seeing him be the last person to each end of the floor. I think that should be a realistic goal of his. Don't be the last person to set up on offense nor defense.

Our only decent defenders were JT and Chuck Hayes. Yes, Chuck Hayes. JT just complained a lot, but he's always been solid.

Malone needs to really enforce defense on them. They could all be at least decent defenders if they only tried.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

D-Will with his typical game/half/quarter where you think for a second he can play only for the next 5-10 games for him to pull a knife and stab you in the heart. His lack of confidence most the time really hurts him, most people on here seem to think he doesn't care but I have a different view I think most the time he's afraid which hurts his confidence and therefore he just looks lost cause he's passive/doesn't attempt to do anything.

It's like he's afraid to fail/succeed at the NBA level cause the difference between confident D-Will/ non confident D-Will is massive.

It has to be mental, because the guy that came to the Kings and started for those first several games, before the Gay trade, was a different player. Body language, which seems like something small, can actually really make a difference.

He looked like a "caged tiger" who had just been released, in those games as a starter. One of the best emphatic dunk grunts that I've heard. Had Arco buzzing like I hadn't seen in a long time. He had people legitimately excited about his prospects as a player, which is really saying something...considering where his game and people's perception of him has fallen.

The question is what is the key to unlocking the beast within him. It is there. How can it come out again? I hope he figures it out, or someone does for him

 

[ninjabiscuit]

Looking back, some of us were not fond of the trade when it went down. Moute had just settled into his lockdown mode guarding positions 1-4, including an awesome stint against Chris Paul...and the feeling of changing the defensive "culture" was starting to take place. He would be a valuable player to have with this current roster

I always got the impression that to counter the fact that Sacramento is not exactly a sparkling NBA destination, PDA was trying to find talented players who didn't fit the system they were playing in. Rudy Gay was a fairly successful example, and I thought that before that, with D-Will PDA was thinking that maybe a #2 pick brought into a different system might be wildly successful. I actually thought there were some flashes early on, when they were running a lot.

 

[hrdboild]

I really don't think we've even seen who Derrick Williams is yet. Most of this recent buzz about his uselessness is based on what exactly, summer league and pre-season? Sure it would have been great if he came out and dominated in those settings but summer league is a glorified practice setting and we ran lineups with three guards and two forwards almost exclusively. Pre-season has been a mixed bag, but the game I watched anyway he didn't do anything to warrant calling for his dismissal from the team. Jason Thompson made just as many stupid mistakes in the first half, we're just used to that by now I suppose.

The backup SF position is not a problem for us this season. The way I see it, Williams is a guy who could step in and start for us if Rudy gets injured. He showed some promise last season in a starting role. I'm glad we have Omri, but I wouldn't want him starting games for us at any point this season. Off the bench Derrick has looked un-engaged and disinterested but for 15-20 minutes a game coach does have two decent options now so he can go with whichever one is having the better night. I don't know what's going to happen with him after his rookie contract ends. He's a talented athlete with some impressive scoring instincts but the league gets flooded with talented young players every year. If you haven't defined a role by year 4 you're running the risk of losing your spot to someone younger with potential. This year there was Parker and Wiggins. Next year there'll be Kelly Oubre, Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow. In 2016 there'll be Ben Simmons, Jaylen Brown and others. Once upon a time Derrick was one of those guys. If he plays well this year he'll stick around. If not, he'll try life overseas. As I said before, it's up to him. I hope it works out for him, but it's not like we won't be able to find other options to replace him if it doesn't.

 

[bajaden]

I really don't think we've even seen who Derrick Williams is yet. Most of this recent buzz about his uselessness is based on what exactly, summer league and pre-season? Sure it would have been great if he came out and dominated in those settings but summer league is a glorified practice setting and we ran lineups with three guards and two forwards almost exclusively. Pre-season has been a mixed bag, but the game I watched anyway he didn't do anything to warrant calling for his dismissal from the team. Jason Thompson made just as many stupid mistakes in the first half, we're just used to that by now I suppose.

The backup SF position is not a problem for us this season. The way I see it, Williams is a guy who could step in and start for us if Rudy gets injured. He showed some promise last season in a starting role. I'm glad we have Omri, but I wouldn't want him starting games for us at any point this season. Off the bench Derrick has looked un-engaged and disinterested but for 15-20 minutes a game coach does have two decent options now so he can go with whichever one is having the better night. I don't know what's going to happen with him after his rookie contract ends. He's a talented athlete with some impressive scoring instincts but the league gets flooded with talented young players every year. If you haven't defined a role by year 4 you're running the risk of losing your spot to someone younger with potential. This year there was Parker and Wiggins. Next year there'll be Kelly Oubre, Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow. In 2016 there'll be Ben Simmons, Jaylen Brown and others. Once upon a time Derrick was one of those guys. If he plays well this year he'll stick around. If not, he'll try life overseas. As I said before, it's up to him. I hope it works out for him, but it's not like we won't be able to find other options to replace him if it doesn't.

In fairness to those that have been critical of Williams, of which I have recently been one, some of it based on his performance last season. His middle name could be inconsistent. It's not as though last year was his rookie year. This will be his fourth year in the league, and I, who was a huge fan of his coming out of college, can't say that he's one bit better now than he was then. In fact, I could make an argument that he was better then. Don't misunderstand me. Nothing would make me happier than for him to succeed, so I'm rooting for him. But I have to be honest about what he's accomplished so far. I thought that getting out from under Adelman, who is hard on young players, would help. But it hasn't! Your right about next years draft possibly being a great year for small forwards. And you only mentioned a few of them. Don't forget Alex Poythress of Kentucky, Amile Jefferson of Duke along with Winslow, Rondae Hollis-Jeffersoon of Arizona, Cairs LaVert of Michigan, and Sam Dekker of Wisconsin. It's going to be a great draft for SF's and PF/Centers.

 

[hrdboild]

In fairness to those that have been critical of Williams, of which I have recently been one, some of it based on his performance last season. His middle name could be inconsistent. It's not as though last year was his rookie year. This will be his fourth year in the league, and I, who was a huge fan of his coming out of college, can't say that he's one bit better now than he was then. In fact, I could make an argument that he was better then. Don't misunderstand me. Nothing would make me happier than for him to succeed, so I'm rooting for him. But I have to be honest about what he's accomplished so far. I thought that getting out from under Adelman, who is hard on young players, would help. But it hasn't! Your right about next years draft possibly being a great year for small forwards. And you only mentioned a few of them. Don't forget Alex Poythress of Kentucky, Amile Jefferson of Duke along with Winslow, Rondae Hollis-Jeffersoon of Arizona, Cairs LaVert of Michigan, and Sam Dekker of Wisconsin. It's going to be a great draft for SF's and PF/Centers.

I feel the same way, more or less about Williams. He has to produce this season or he's not just going to lose his spot on the Kings, he's going to lose his spot in the league. Maybe it's because I haven't been around that much over the off-season, but it seems to me that this disgust with Derrick Williams has just built and built since the end of last year and I can't really figure out why. We had a similar discussion here the last month of the season as the Isaiah Thomas show kicked until full gear and I just didn't see how anybody could succeed on that team with Cousins, Rudy, and IT accounting for 80% of the shots every game. I suggested then that some of the inconsistency we were seeing from Williams and McLemore stemmed from them being young guys, and not particularly forceful, trying to find their way on a team where the offensive opportunities were few and far between. Both of them play better on defense when they're involved in the offense. They're not seasoned pros yet, they need an occasional boost of confidence. And both of them need to see the ball go in the basket before they get in a rhythm. Obviously stars are built by overcoming that kind of adversity, but everyone else needs a confluence of events putting them on the right team with the right teammates and the right coaching philosophy to allow them to excel.

I have some hope this season with Collison at the point and an emphasis on passing in training camp that the team will "play up" this year, so to speak, and some of these younger guys will grow into the larger roles we need them to play if we're going to be any good. In yesterday's pre-season game, for example, how many of those shot attempts was McLemore getting last season? He might have a game like that every two weeks but the rest of the time he'd look shaky early on or miss a couple open jumpers and never touch the ball again. This is a much more balanced roster with coaching continuity from last year and a star who's ready to lead. Like Vivek said about the front office, now is the time to start holding everyone accountable. Let's get a month into the season first and then take a look at where we are. If Williams can't play with some urgency in a contract season with his career on the line, then I'll be happy to see him leave at the end of the season too.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I got to thinking earlier today about Derrick and was wondering if he could really benefit from a personal mentor, who was a former NBA player. Someone who played his position and had similar explosive atheticism. A mentor who he would look up to and respect, just like Shaq has been for Demarcus or Olajuwon is for Howard.

Who around the league has someone like this who is part of their team? Atlanta. Dominique Wilkens

If we decide to we need to move him, could Atlanta want to take chance on him and let Wilkens work with him? They have interesting players for us, in Horford or Millsap