The "Lets keep Boogie" thread
- Thread starter King Baller
- Start date
I have put these numbers up numerous times in the past, but one more time:
Career TS%
Duncan .551
Ewing .553
Garnett .546
Hakeem .553
Boogie TS% last 3 years: .555, .545, .538
The last number put up in junkball system while being asked to spot up from three, which I can guarantee you none of the above guys ever had to overcome.
People with agendas will ignore that for the sake of the agenda, but just as often I think younger fans have been messed up by Shaq being the on!y great center who lingered into recent times.
Career TS%
Duncan .551
Ewing .553
Garnett .546
Hakeem .553
Boogie TS% last 3 years: .555, .545, .538
The last number put up in junkball system while being asked to spot up from three, which I can guarantee you none of the above guys ever had to overcome.
People with agendas will ignore that for the sake of the agenda, but just as often I think younger fans have been messed up by Shaq being the on!y great center who lingered into recent times.
I know where you are coming from, but I disagree. Cousins has a go to move. Most often it's the left to right crossover in a dribble drive from outside the arc or the high post. And this move is pretty lethal against a lot of big man. I also disagree about his ability as a post player. You tend to focus on movesets a bit too much from my point of view. Yes Towns f.e. can finish over any defender with his left or right handed jumphook. But is he a better post player yet? I personally don't think so, because Towns much like AD or Horford doesn't have the physical tools to dominate his defender. I think Towns major weakness SO FAR is, that he can't back many players down and has troubles to really estabilish good position down low. Cousins on the other hand is so strong in his lower body, that not many big guys in the league can hold their ground against him (f.e. Sullinger is one of the few guys who can, while also being mobile enough to defend his dribble drive).
This season Cousins very often established a deep position early close to the basket, with his defender helplessly trying to front him, because he couldn't move him out of there. Yes this isn't a go to move, but it's part of an overall post game - carving out space, getting into position, reacting to the defense, footwork - it's all part of being a great post-player and Cousins is elite in those areas.
Yes a reliable jump hook (or a turn around jumpshot) would be extremely beneficial, but Cousins has shown flashes of those moves. He is capable of using them. All he needs is a coach that teaches him, when to use them, while also respecting the fact, that Cousins is not limited to those kind of moves.
Our big guy is such a rare specimen - the finesse and touch of a SF in a body, that allows him to move his defender around almost at will.
How on earth is it possible, that we can't find a way to be successful with this kind of player? I just don't get it, although I know all the usual arguments, why it's difficult to build around big man in this league and I think all those arguments are true to a certain point.
I personally finally want the Kings to respect the current playstyle of the league. I want them to find a way to defend this playstyle first. And when they did so (which is the most difficult part) I want them to establish a structured offense around Cousins with a good amount of pick&rolls/pops mixed with the using of the advantages Cousins strengths, skillset and mobility gives us almost every night at the center position.
I know this will be awfully hard to do and I know we might run out of time due to Cousins contract situation, but as a Kings fan and a fan of physical, defensive and hard nosed basketball I just can't let this dream go.
This season Cousins very often established a deep position early close to the basket, with his defender helplessly trying to front him, because he couldn't move him out of there. Yes this isn't a go to move, but it's part of an overall post game - carving out space, getting into position, reacting to the defense, footwork - it's all part of being a great post-player and Cousins is elite in those areas.
Yes a reliable jump hook (or a turn around jumpshot) would be extremely beneficial, but Cousins has shown flashes of those moves. He is capable of using them. All he needs is a coach that teaches him, when to use them, while also respecting the fact, that Cousins is not limited to those kind of moves.
Our big guy is such a rare specimen - the finesse and touch of a SF in a body, that allows him to move his defender around almost at will.
How on earth is it possible, that we can't find a way to be successful with this kind of player? I just don't get it, although I know all the usual arguments, why it's difficult to build around big man in this league and I think all those arguments are true to a certain point.
I personally finally want the Kings to respect the current playstyle of the league. I want them to find a way to defend this playstyle first. And when they did so (which is the most difficult part) I want them to establish a structured offense around Cousins with a good amount of pick&rolls/pops mixed with the using of the advantages Cousins strengths, skillset and mobility gives us almost every night at the center position.
I know this will be awfully hard to do and I know we might run out of time due to Cousins contract situation, but as a Kings fan and a fan of physical, defensive and hard nosed basketball I just can't let this dream go.
K
Slightly off topic but I was always just amazed that Carl Landry in his earlier days in particular despite being a really undersized PF (not even thick or anything) could get deep position and just own bigger people he for his size was truly remarkable in that regard. Have not seen someone be able to carve space out like him in ages, Cuz certainly can do it but. I have always said Cousins despite my dislike of him if he ever developed half hooks (or actually used the one's he has) to go along with that ability to back someone down would become beyond lethal.
I agree with a lot of what you said. Cousins' biggest problem is that once he establishes great position, his touch around the rim is horrendous. This is extremely eye-opening when you consider how talented Cousins is. He just can't finish as well as you'd like him to. I think this is because of his lack of post up moves. We often see him bully his opponent until he gets that position, but falls short on the amounts of moves he has to get the basket.
Cousins FG% from within 5ft is 55.6%. His % from 5-9ft out is 36.4.
You don't get to see how bad those numbers are yet, until you compare it to other bigs:
Karl-Anthony Towns:
65%......49.4%
Jahlil Okafor:
61.8%........49.7%
Dwight Howard:
69.6%.........37.5%
Enes Kanter:
61.3%.....50.5%
I really think Cousins needs to work with someone like Hakeem to improve his moves and touch around the rim. He has so much talent, but he's too focused on other areas right now. I don't think Cuz can continue to go forward putting up shooting %s like he has before. We need a more efficient offensive Cousins. I know people are saying, "it's no big deal, he provides everything else too". Well are those people not looking for the future of this team too? Once we do have an elite team(hopefully), I don't think we could afford to have Cousins put up these abyssal shooting percentages. If he puts up these shooting % in the playoffs, he's going to get a lot of crap. We're seeing this happen with Lowry and Co.
Cousins FG% from within 5ft is 55.6%. His % from 5-9ft out is 36.4.
You don't get to see how bad those numbers are yet, until you compare it to other bigs:
Karl-Anthony Towns:
65%......49.4%
Jahlil Okafor:
61.8%........49.7%
Dwight Howard:
69.6%.........37.5%
Enes Kanter:
61.3%.....50.5%
I really think Cousins needs to work with someone like Hakeem to improve his moves and touch around the rim. He has so much talent, but he's too focused on other areas right now. I don't think Cuz can continue to go forward putting up shooting %s like he has before. We need a more efficient offensive Cousins. I know people are saying, "it's no big deal, he provides everything else too". Well are those people not looking for the future of this team too? Once we do have an elite team(hopefully), I don't think we could afford to have Cousins put up these abyssal shooting percentages. If he puts up these shooting % in the playoffs, he's going to get a lot of crap. We're seeing this happen with Lowry and Co.
We are certainly not far off each other, when it comes to Cousins. Working with a great big man of the past would certainly benefit Cousins. But I think that many of Cousins weaknesses would be less impactful, when the team surrounding him would be better. The problem is, that Cousins IS our offense way too often. Everything runs through him. I don't think that's winning basketball.
But my main concern right now is our defense. If we would be able to fix it, we would be at least mediocre. And fixing our defense once again means Cousins doing even more (improving his ability to guard the pick&roll and to step out on shooters).
At some point we have to face the facts, that we can only ask so much out of one player, that Cousins isn't flawless and that he will always have weaknesses in his game. Sadly the continued misery of this franchise has hampered his development (it's eye popping, that he got that far, with all the issues ins SAC). Usually great players will learn how to lead, how to pick their spots, how to exploit defenses, how to value every possession and so on during their first playoff runs, where young stars usually take a fast exit, but learn a whole lot (look at PG13 now f.e.). Cousins never had the opportunity to learn in the playoffs. I think we will never know how good Cousins really is until we finally get a couple of playoff runs.
But my main concern right now is our defense. If we would be able to fix it, we would be at least mediocre. And fixing our defense once again means Cousins doing even more (improving his ability to guard the pick&roll and to step out on shooters).
At some point we have to face the facts, that we can only ask so much out of one player, that Cousins isn't flawless and that he will always have weaknesses in his game. Sadly the continued misery of this franchise has hampered his development (it's eye popping, that he got that far, with all the issues ins SAC). Usually great players will learn how to lead, how to pick their spots, how to exploit defenses, how to value every possession and so on during their first playoff runs, where young stars usually take a fast exit, but learn a whole lot (look at PG13 now f.e.). Cousins never had the opportunity to learn in the playoffs. I think we will never know how good Cousins really is until we finally get a couple of playoff runs.
Caron Butler being interviewed on The Dan LeBatard Show right now, suggested that Cousins showed more anger over techincals than anything that happened in the locker room. Seemed to imply that Cousins' attitude wasn't a problem in the locker room, although that might have just been me reading into it. He did actually say that he respected Cousins, and admired his passion.
I just watched this video and of Cousins' 48 points just six of them came from post-up opportunities. A number came on cuts to the basket where he finished and/or was fouled but the majority were Boogie catching the ball on the outside (sometimes at the elbow, mostly outside the arc) and attacking off the dribble.
He went 17-29 on this night but if anybody wants to see the reason for DMC's drop in efficiency this season the shots he takes in that video are really all the evidence needed. On the one hand it's beyond impressive to me that you can ask the best offensive center in the league to change his game and attack off the dribble from the outside and he's talented enough to do that, but it also makes me re-think my desire to see Rondo move on in free agency. I'm still not convinced he's worth the salary he'll command and I'm still very bothered by his lack of effort on defense, but the idea of Rondo delivering the ball to Cousins exactly where he needs it to attack from better positions on the floor with WCS as a dump off target (for Rondo and Cousins) when Cuz is double teamed and two 3&D wings on the outside could be a very effective offensive team with the right coach/system.
It's probably overly simplistic but I view Kings free agency (assuming Cousins isn't traded) as essentially a choice between Rondo or Ryan Anderson. They won't have the money for both and I don't really see any other free agents that (1) are attainable/willing to come to Sacramento and (2) would be a good fit and make a positive impact.
Beyond that a Rudy Gay trade (and maybe a Collison trade if Rondo is resigned) and the top 10 pick are the only avenues of improvement that I see. MAYBE somebody is willing to give up a usable piece for McLemore and/or Koufos or MAYBE a team would be willing to take Belinelli for a 2nd round pick to open up some cap room but I have doubts on both counts.
So:
Rondo/Collison
???/draft pick??
???/Casspi
Cauley-Stein/???
Cousins/Koufos
or
Collison
???/draft pick??
???/Casspi
Cauley-Stein/Anderson
Cousins/Koufos
Since I don't know what the market value is for Gay (or possibly Collison, Koufos, McLemore, Belinelli) it's hard to judge how good the pieces would be coming back. Either team could be a playoff team with the right moves but they'd play very different styles. I think that's going to be why it's important to get a coach signed early on - so he can have input on the style he wants to use, the types of players he'd like to have etc.
He went 17-29 on this night but if anybody wants to see the reason for DMC's drop in efficiency this season the shots he takes in that video are really all the evidence needed. On the one hand it's beyond impressive to me that you can ask the best offensive center in the league to change his game and attack off the dribble from the outside and he's talented enough to do that, but it also makes me re-think my desire to see Rondo move on in free agency. I'm still not convinced he's worth the salary he'll command and I'm still very bothered by his lack of effort on defense, but the idea of Rondo delivering the ball to Cousins exactly where he needs it to attack from better positions on the floor with WCS as a dump off target (for Rondo and Cousins) when Cuz is double teamed and two 3&D wings on the outside could be a very effective offensive team with the right coach/system.
It's probably overly simplistic but I view Kings free agency (assuming Cousins isn't traded) as essentially a choice between Rondo or Ryan Anderson. They won't have the money for both and I don't really see any other free agents that (1) are attainable/willing to come to Sacramento and (2) would be a good fit and make a positive impact.
Beyond that a Rudy Gay trade (and maybe a Collison trade if Rondo is resigned) and the top 10 pick are the only avenues of improvement that I see. MAYBE somebody is willing to give up a usable piece for McLemore and/or Koufos or MAYBE a team would be willing to take Belinelli for a 2nd round pick to open up some cap room but I have doubts on both counts.
So:
Rondo/Collison
???/draft pick??
???/Casspi
Cauley-Stein/???
Cousins/Koufos
or
Collison
???/draft pick??
???/Casspi
Cauley-Stein/Anderson
Cousins/Koufos
Since I don't know what the market value is for Gay (or possibly Collison, Koufos, McLemore, Belinelli) it's hard to judge how good the pieces would be coming back. Either team could be a playoff team with the right moves but they'd play very different styles. I think that's going to be why it's important to get a coach signed early on - so he can have input on the style he wants to use, the types of players he'd like to have etc.
There were some reports (I think it was Ham) that we want to bring Rondo back if we continue to build around Cousins. If we sign him to lets say about 16 mil that leaves us with about 10 mil in cap space.
I could then see Vlade doing the Mclemore for Shumpert trade that was rumoured to be talked about at the trade deadline and matching any offer for Curry with the remaining cap.
.
This would give us a potential 9 man rotation of:
Rondo (32 mins at PG), Collison (16 mins at PG, 12 mins at SG)
Shumpert (18 mins at SG, 8 mins at SF) Curry (18 mins at SG)
Gay (32 mins at SF) Casspi (8 mins at SF, 16 minutes at PF)
WCS (32 mins at PF)
Cousins (32 mins at C) Koufos (16 mins at C)
With Mchale as HC, a healthy Cousins and another top ten draftpick I like our chances for next season.
I like Shumpert's defense but that starting lineup just doesn't have enough outside shooting. I think Rudy Gay needs to be traded. His game is really about the midrange on in AND he needs the ball in his hands to be effective while note being a playmaker for others. Worst of all, he's a 2nd option whose efficiency plummets when asked to be the #1 option. He's a poor fit with Cousins and a really poor fit with both Rondo and Cousins IMO.
I'd rather see McLemore traded for Sefalosha and Gay dealt for a package that brings back Ariza.
Rondo
Sefalosha
Ariza
WCS
Cousins
is more balanced. You draft a wing like Hield or Brown and let them develop into a starter and move forward. Casspi and Collison are the main scorers off the bench, Koufos provides a big defensive body when necessary and I'd like to see Acy and Curry back too. I still think the team needs to add a stretch 4 (I'm not all that high on Ellenson but he's the only likely lottery pick who fits the bill) but I'd be happy with that Roster.
Of course if the Kings finally have some real lottery luck and end up with the 2nd pick (behind the Sixers getting the 1st) and get a chance to grab Brandon Ingram he's exactly the kind of player you'd want on a team featuring Rondo and Cousins.
I'd rather see McLemore traded for Sefalosha and Gay dealt for a package that brings back Ariza.
Rondo
Sefalosha
Ariza
WCS
Cousins
is more balanced. You draft a wing like Hield or Brown and let them develop into a starter and move forward. Casspi and Collison are the main scorers off the bench, Koufos provides a big defensive body when necessary and I'd like to see Acy and Curry back too. I still think the team needs to add a stretch 4 (I'm not all that high on Ellenson but he's the only likely lottery pick who fits the bill) but I'd be happy with that Roster.
Of course if the Kings finally have some real lottery luck and end up with the 2nd pick (behind the Sixers getting the 1st) and get a chance to grab Brandon Ingram he's exactly the kind of player you'd want on a team featuring Rondo and Cousins.
I agree that Ariza fits what we need with that core, but why do we think Daryl Morey--who took the notion of "3s or shots at the rim only" to the extreme--is interested in mr. midrange Rudy Gay?
I think the Bulls might be a more likely bet. Not sure what the right deal is, but they appeared to be interested in the past.
I think the Bulls might be a more likely bet. Not sure what the right deal is, but they appeared to be interested in the past.
I agree with you on the shooting problem. My idea would be to only play the Rondo-Shumpert-Gay-WCS-Cousins lineup for a limited amount of time together. For example you could swap Shumpert with Curry after 5 mins and go to Rondo-Curry-Gay-Wcs-Cousins. Not ideal but a lot better than what we tried this year. Of course getting Ariza for Gay is another interesting option.
My original thought was that Rudy goes to Atlanta, Jeff Teague goes to Houston and Sefalosha and Ariza go to the Kings.
The Hawks are apparently looking to move one of their PGs and Teague would give a better return. He'd also be a good fit in Houston as (unlike Ty Lawson) he can play well off the ball. Also, even though their career numbers for 3pt% are similar Teague has been improving from outside while Lawson has been declining.
The question is whether Gay is an attractive piece for Atlanta. And if so maybe the Kings can include McLemore and get the Hawks 21st pick in the draft.
That deal would also open up a bit of caproom ($1.5 M or so) for the Kings.
At that point I'd try for a sign-and-trade with New Orleans for Ryan Anderson. The Kings don't have the caproom to sign both Anderson and Rondo but if they go after Anderson in free agency and the Pelicans are sure he's not returning maybe they are willing to take a package of say Koufos and Belinelli. Then there's enough money left to resign Rondo as well.
Retain Acy (my understanding is that he has a non-guaranteed deal some sources say it's a player option), re-sign Curry, accept the fact that Anderson likely opts in to his deal and then things look like this.
Rondo/Collison/Curry
Sefalosha/???/
Ariza/Casspi/Anderson(?)
Cauley-Stein/Anderson/Acy
Cousins/???/???
Between dealing Collison and the two first round picks you'd be able to plug three of those five holes, most importantly backup SG, backup C and third string PG. Then the last two roster spots get filled by minimum contract guys. Maybe the Kings get lucky in the lottery finally and end up with a 2-4 pick in the draft so they can nab Ingram or Hield. The 21st pick could be any of the centers expected to go in that range (Zubic, Stone, Zizic, Jones, Zimmerman, Maker)
and now the team looks like this
Rondo/Collison/Curry
Sefalosha/Hield/???
Ariza/Casspi/J. Anderson(?)
Cauley-Stein/R. Anderson/Acy
Cousins/draft pick/???
Then all that's left is to sign a third string SG and C (I'd love Cole Aldrich who would let the Kings draft more of a project big like Maker) to small or minimum deals and the Kings would have a good looking roster that works under the cap.
The Hawks are apparently looking to move one of their PGs and Teague would give a better return. He'd also be a good fit in Houston as (unlike Ty Lawson) he can play well off the ball. Also, even though their career numbers for 3pt% are similar Teague has been improving from outside while Lawson has been declining.
The question is whether Gay is an attractive piece for Atlanta. And if so maybe the Kings can include McLemore and get the Hawks 21st pick in the draft.
That deal would also open up a bit of caproom ($1.5 M or so) for the Kings.
At that point I'd try for a sign-and-trade with New Orleans for Ryan Anderson. The Kings don't have the caproom to sign both Anderson and Rondo but if they go after Anderson in free agency and the Pelicans are sure he's not returning maybe they are willing to take a package of say Koufos and Belinelli. Then there's enough money left to resign Rondo as well.
Retain Acy (my understanding is that he has a non-guaranteed deal some sources say it's a player option), re-sign Curry, accept the fact that Anderson likely opts in to his deal and then things look like this.
Rondo/Collison/Curry
Sefalosha/???/
Ariza/Casspi/Anderson(?)
Cauley-Stein/Anderson/Acy
Cousins/???/???
Between dealing Collison and the two first round picks you'd be able to plug three of those five holes, most importantly backup SG, backup C and third string PG. Then the last two roster spots get filled by minimum contract guys. Maybe the Kings get lucky in the lottery finally and end up with a 2-4 pick in the draft so they can nab Ingram or Hield. The 21st pick could be any of the centers expected to go in that range (Zubic, Stone, Zizic, Jones, Zimmerman, Maker)
and now the team looks like this
Rondo/Collison/Curry
Sefalosha/Hield/???
Ariza/Casspi/J. Anderson(?)
Cauley-Stein/R. Anderson/Acy
Cousins/draft pick/???
Then all that's left is to sign a third string SG and C (I'd love Cole Aldrich who would let the Kings draft more of a project big like Maker) to small or minimum deals and the Kings would have a good looking roster that works under the cap.