The Kings young core - is it enough?
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I think it is enough to have an exciting season with the Kings competing in most games. All the young players should have added at least one thing they worked on in the off season. The ball will be in the hands of Fox, Bogi and Frank as play makers and scorers. The one type of player I would like to see added is a starting level wing who can defend the other teams best wing. For now that is going to be Temple, Shumpert and perhaps JaKarr Sampson.
We need a franchise player. That's the only thing that matters. I think last year we had a bunch of players who would compliment a franchise player very nicely, but we didn't have a real franchise player. Ultimately I think it comes down to Bagley. He might be a bluechip prospect... but I want to wait a little before saying that because his skills are really raw and defense isn't there yet. Franchise is really riding on his back. The success of the Kings is heavily dependent on him right now. If he's able to put together his offensive tools, I'm seeing AD-lite on offense.
Here's my breakdown of the other guys in our core in terms of franchise player potential:
Here's my breakdown of the other guys in our core in terms of franchise player potential:
- Fox is interesting, but from what I saw in his rookie year, I don't think he's a franchise player. Young enough, but has his weaknesses all over the place. Wasn't really able to put the team on his back and carry us offensively. We gave him free-reign after we traded Hill and sat vets, but he didn't make the most of that opportunity. Outside of a few clutch shots, his scoring was pretty meh for the most part.
- Buddy is less interesting. I think he could turn into a good starter, but he's not a franchise player. He's older already at 24yearsold and turning 25 in Dec. His lack of athleticism + average handles will prevent him to reach franchise player level. I'd give his odds 5%.
- Bogdan is in the same boat as Buddy, but with worse odds. Potential to be good starter, but nowhere near franchise player. One of our oldest players at 25yearsold, turning 26 in Aug. Lack of great athleticism and age is mightily against him.
- Giles is the complete wildcard. FO is talking him up to be CWebb 2.0. We haven't seen him play high level basketball since his JR year of HS 3 years ago. His injuries are also a major concern with him sitting out the entire year this year. I'm inclined to think that the FO really thinks he can be great, but we'll need to see him in SL, preseason, and regular season before we can even put him in this "franchise player race".
The easiest type of sports fan to be is the super negative, never satisfied naysayer. If the team is bad, you were “right” about the team and you can tell everyone how smart you are. If you are wrong and the team is good, the fans are going to be too happy to go back and try to remember who the nonbelievers were and call them out.
I say we see how Buddy looks after taking big steps last year, see how Fox and Jackson look after a full offseason, see how Willie looks with more competition, and see how Giles and Bagley look at all before making huge value judgments.
I say we see how Buddy looks after taking big steps last year, see how Fox and Jackson look after a full offseason, see how Willie looks with more competition, and see how Giles and Bagley look at all before making huge value judgments.
I think its easiest to be a basic homer who cannot criticise his own team and always gives the blind benefit of the doubt. To me its hardest to be somewhere in the middle, able to form your own opinions about the players and the general direction of the team and remain objective while evaluating the team. Not trashing them but not overvaluing them either. Being a realist on topics like "are we good enough currently to start doing win now moves" ect. To me, thats definetly hardest. And I'm not even talking about wether you are right in your own evaluations or not. Im talking about being a realist and objective while doing these evaluations, definetly much harder to remain objective regarding the team you are emotionally connected to.
The easiest fan to be is a bandwagon fan. If you can't enjoy a team because they don't have a Lebron James, Steph Curry, James Harden or that level talent, then you may be a bandwagon fan.
It's not being a homer if the Kings are your team and you are optimistic about their future. Especially if some of your positivity lies with a #2, #5 and a guy who was highly touted out of high school who is getting praise from his NBA teammates. No one truly knows how it will turn out, but if you need certainty to be happy, then the bandwagon is for you.
It's not being a homer if the Kings are your team and you are optimistic about their future. Especially if some of your positivity lies with a #2, #5 and a guy who was highly touted out of high school who is getting praise from his NBA teammates. No one truly knows how it will turn out, but if you need certainty to be happy, then the bandwagon is for you.
I disagree. To me being a fan doesnt have to mean you blindly like every move the team makes. Thats just being ignorant. And I'm not saying you shouldnt be excited. I said that its very hard to remain objective about the team you are emotionally connected to. And Im not even saying thats the "best" or "right" way to be a fan. To me its definetly the hardest way. Everyone can be homers or overly positive on the team if they want, thats a right every fan has and I have no problem with it.
I enjoy watching Kings, reading about them, discussing about them. It doesnt mean that I agree with every move this franchise has made. I can enjoy all those things without giving them the blind benefit of the doubt every time. If you think its either full on positivity or bandwagoning, you should broaden your perspective.
I enjoy watching Kings, reading about them, discussing about them. It doesnt mean that I agree with every move this franchise has made. I can enjoy all those things without giving them the blind benefit of the doubt every time. If you think its either full on positivity or bandwagoning, you should broaden your perspective.
Here's the thing with Giles:
We'll finally get to see him in action in a little over a week. There will always be the concern over another knee injury ns all the normal caveats about summer league competition apply, but it will likely be very apparent one way or another whether Harry is worth being excited about.
If he is, the combination of he and Bagley up front with Fox and Bogdan/Buddy in the backcourt could be a lot of fun.
If WCS finally shows some consistency and focuses on defense and rebounding that would be a huge bonus though I'm not counting on it. There's not a lot of great/realistic SF options in free agency but a good signing there would also go a long way.
And there's zero reason to tank this year so I expect to see this team battling every night. And hopefully Giles can be a key part of that. We'll find out soon.
We'll finally get to see him in action in a little over a week. There will always be the concern over another knee injury ns all the normal caveats about summer league competition apply, but it will likely be very apparent one way or another whether Harry is worth being excited about.
If he is, the combination of he and Bagley up front with Fox and Bogdan/Buddy in the backcourt could be a lot of fun.
If WCS finally shows some consistency and focuses on defense and rebounding that would be a huge bonus though I'm not counting on it. There's not a lot of great/realistic SF options in free agency but a good signing there would also go a long way.
And there's zero reason to tank this year so I expect to see this team battling every night. And hopefully Giles can be a key part of that. We'll find out soon.
What about WCS and JJ? And Mason? I know some of you just want to get rid of them because they haven't lived up to your expectations. But they are young, tradeable assets, if not part of the Kings core moving forward. There have been times that I was ready to walk away from each. But that's no way to build a winning NBA franchise.
I like the Kings young core. Granted, no one has yet shown that they are going to be a "franchise player" for us. But that doesn't worry me as much as some around here, because for every franchise player, there are 25 other guys who had the talent but never earned the "franchise" label. With a few exceptions, it's just not as predictable as some posters seem to think. Although Willie has frustrated many of us for three years now, he could have a break-out year this year and become a perennial all-star. I'm not betting on it, but it's not impossible given his talent.
I like the Kings young core. Granted, no one has yet shown that they are going to be a "franchise player" for us. But that doesn't worry me as much as some around here, because for every franchise player, there are 25 other guys who had the talent but never earned the "franchise" label. With a few exceptions, it's just not as predictable as some posters seem to think. Although Willie has frustrated many of us for three years now, he could have a break-out year this year and become a perennial all-star. I'm not betting on it, but it's not impossible given his talent.
I'm not sure if Bagley is (right now) a good enough shooter to work with (a hopefully healthy) Giles (or WCS for that matter), but I do think that long-term it will be smart to try and develop him as a more perimeter oriented player.
At the moment I think Bagley will thrive as a C with shooters around him in a fast pace system.
I'd love to see how he will in a lineup with Skal (we will get killed defensively but I don't think we are ready to contend for a playoff spot anytime soon).
At the moment I think Bagley will thrive as a C with shooters around him in a fast pace system.
I'd love to see how he will in a lineup with Skal (we will get killed defensively but I don't think we are ready to contend for a playoff spot anytime soon).
I think your expectations on Fox last year might have been too high based on this breakdown. 19-20 year old who held his own and showed the potential we all want. It’s now hard work over the next 2 years, mainly getting stronger and the continued work on his shot. I don’t know about franchise player but can this guy eventually play at a Teague or Conley level at some point? Yes, I think he can given the hard work to get there.
I think it’s Fox or bust for us as the franchise guy. He’s kind of been our face all summer. He might not be our most dominant player when we get good (bagley hopefully is this player) but he will be our franchise face/star if this team does make the jump into relevance. If he gets that jumper, he’ll be that guy. The confidence is there, the work-ethic is there, the physical and mental tools are there, the personality, etc. If his skills follow, we’ll finally have our guy.
The team then has some legit potential in terms of role-players. If WCS plays hard to keep a job and $$, the big man presence of a hard working him, Bagley, and Giles will definitely be a different rebounding/finishing squad than we’ve had in a while. Lob city 2.0... JJ will probably get another look on the wing and hopefully we sign a player. Correct me if I’m wrong but shumpert is an NBA champ. Buddy will average his 15-18 ppg and Bogdan his 13 4 and 4, if not more from each...ZBO can be our David West getting those dirty buckets when we need it. Skal our Channing Frye...It really comes down to what Fox becomes in the end. If he’s the next great, oh boy will this ride be fun. Its in there. He wants it, and shows it. Just gotta go get it now
The team then has some legit potential in terms of role-players. If WCS plays hard to keep a job and $$, the big man presence of a hard working him, Bagley, and Giles will definitely be a different rebounding/finishing squad than we’ve had in a while. Lob city 2.0... JJ will probably get another look on the wing and hopefully we sign a player. Correct me if I’m wrong but shumpert is an NBA champ. Buddy will average his 15-18 ppg and Bogdan his 13 4 and 4, if not more from each...ZBO can be our David West getting those dirty buckets when we need it. Skal our Channing Frye...It really comes down to what Fox becomes in the end. If he’s the next great, oh boy will this ride be fun. Its in there. He wants it, and shows it. Just gotta go get it now
If skal can become a lights out three point shooter, I think he can be useful on this roster. that should really be his main focus imo.
And I havent given up on Jackson yet. He was jerked around a lot last season so it was hard to guage his true level of skill.
he did show high IQ, great spacing/movement and nice passing. If he can start nailing his shots and hit the weights a bit.. He can be a rotation player in the league. He might not fit on our roster but he can become a nice trade chip.
Im not sure if Frank the tank is a backup pg or a third string at this point. he has potential to be a fred van vleet type of backup though.
I do think vlade should sign a vet PG for when things get messy.. someone like teodosic, shabazz napier.
And I havent given up on Jackson yet. He was jerked around a lot last season so it was hard to guage his true level of skill.
he did show high IQ, great spacing/movement and nice passing. If he can start nailing his shots and hit the weights a bit.. He can be a rotation player in the league. He might not fit on our roster but he can become a nice trade chip.
Im not sure if Frank the tank is a backup pg or a third string at this point. he has potential to be a fred van vleet type of backup though.
I do think vlade should sign a vet PG for when things get messy.. someone like teodosic, shabazz napier.
I still have hope for WCS. Not that he'll suddenly be a great rebounder or shot-blocker, but that he'll really start to impact the game on both sides of the ball like we have seen him do many times before. I'm a couple years older than Willy, and things have only really came together for me over the last year. Sometimes we forget that these are humans who are experiencing the same s**t that we do. Development is not linear. Confidence can do a huge amount for a person. Willy has the talent, it just has to click. Hopefully that happens with us, and next year would be a great time to start.
Skal need minutes and reps more than anything else. He needs to figure out for himself that he belongs, and everything else will follow. Confidence is an issue for him, although I don't think intelligence is one. He seems pretty smart, just a bit reserved. He can overcome that. We've seen him do some impressive things, so hopefully he can build on that. He has the talent to be a great shooter who can also defend the paint with his shot-blocking. I like Skal but he needs at least two more years before we know what we have.
I'm not high on Jackson, I see rotational player as his ceiling. Having said that, when I went to see us play in MSG, Justin was actually probably the best shooter in warm-ups. Of course that means absolutely nothing, but he did look like a dead-eye shooter. Hopefully he can build on that. He needs to hit the gym and become more assertive. He's a super nice kid, but needs to be more aggressive.
I'm not high on Jackson, I see rotational player as his ceiling. Having said that, when I went to see us play in MSG, Justin was actually probably the best shooter in warm-ups. Of course that means absolutely nothing, but he did look like a dead-eye shooter. Hopefully he can build on that. He needs to hit the gym and become more assertive. He's a super nice kid, but needs to be more aggressive.
nice post.
One thing i like about this team is we will pretty much always have a lob threat on the court. And our bigs are fast af.
WCS could be valuable off the bench in the future. I think if Joerger ran a more fast paced- get stops and bust out into transition type of offense, Willie could shine along with the rest of our bigs.
One thing i like about this team is we will pretty much always have a lob threat on the court. And our bigs are fast af.
WCS could be valuable off the bench in the future. I think if Joerger ran a more fast paced- get stops and bust out into transition type of offense, Willie could shine along with the rest of our bigs.
I was not being super negative I said Fox and Bagley have potential and the rest of the roster (Bogi/Giles aside) is not very good in terms of potential /consistant production and my feeling is we need to make serious trades if we want to be a competitive team. The Kings fans do the same thing every single season we have been super optimistic going in ignoring the fact that this current team as is currently constructed is not very talented.
I've very satisfyed in letting Fox/Bagley/Bogie try turn things around but we need vets heading into the primes of their career to have any shot being decent.
I've very satisfyed in letting Fox/Bagley/Bogie try turn things around but we need vets heading into the primes of their career to have any shot being decent.
Well, we have some good young pieces.
I think a lot of it depends if Giles is the real deal and if Fox can develop his outside shooting.
The Kings obviously needs a strong starting small forward. Either we go out and try and sign Hezonja and hope he develops consistency or someone like Kyle Anderson and hope he develops an offensive game. The other option is try to get Washington to trade us Otto Porter in a salary dump for one of our bigs (WCS?).
But we definitely have the building blocks, but we need everything to fall into place.
PF: Marvin Bagley / Skal / ZBo
SF: Bogdan (for lack of a better option) / Justin Jackson
C: WCS / Giles / KK
SG: Hield / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
We have a lot of good young pieces, 9 players.
Coach Joeger is going to need to pick up the pace to best utilize these players. He's going to need to trust these young guys and allow them to grow. NO more ZBo, now that Vlade got him a shinny new big man to score.
Everything needs to really break right and the Kings should be competitive next year. Hopefully 35+ wins next year and a run for the playoffs in 2020.
I think a lot of it depends if Giles is the real deal and if Fox can develop his outside shooting.
The Kings obviously needs a strong starting small forward. Either we go out and try and sign Hezonja and hope he develops consistency or someone like Kyle Anderson and hope he develops an offensive game. The other option is try to get Washington to trade us Otto Porter in a salary dump for one of our bigs (WCS?).
But we definitely have the building blocks, but we need everything to fall into place.
PF: Marvin Bagley / Skal / ZBo
SF: Bogdan (for lack of a better option) / Justin Jackson
C: WCS / Giles / KK
SG: Hield / Shumpert
PG: Fox / Mason
We have a lot of good young pieces, 9 players.
Coach Joeger is going to need to pick up the pace to best utilize these players. He's going to need to trust these young guys and allow them to grow. NO more ZBo, now that Vlade got him a shinny new big man to score.
Everything needs to really break right and the Kings should be competitive next year. Hopefully 35+ wins next year and a run for the playoffs in 2020.
I honestly think we'll have a pretty good idea where we stand by the end of this calendar year.
-If Fox doesn't show any growth in his second season you start to worry.
Hopeful season projection( 30MPG 15 ppg, 4Reb, 6 Ast, 45% FG, 33% 3pt, 1.4 STL)
-Bagley has the type of game that should have an immediate impact, even if there's still a ton of skill development for him to come.Hopeful season projection (26 MPG 14PPG, 9 Reb, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK 50% FG, 32% 3Pt)
- I think this is the year where we see where Buddy can cap out at. Can he become a 18-20 ppg scorer who has addded some 2nd-3rd ball handler playmaking? Or does he cap at out 15 ppg of the bench scorer? Hopeful Season Projection ( 30 MPG 16 PPG, 4 Reb, 3 AST, 1.5 STL, 45% FG, 43% 3pt)
- For Giles Im just looking to see what he looks like, whether he has that "special" feel to him, or at least shows glimpses of it. I honestly have no clue what to expect. The franchises true wild card. Hopeful season projection( 20 MPG, 9 Pts, 7 Reb, 2 AST, 1.4 BLK, 1 STL, 50% FG)
- For Bogi I'm expecting a solid jump, I can easily see him as a 17-4-4 guy in his second season. Having weapons like Bagley and Giles should help him too. Hopeful season projection (32 MPG 16 Pts, 3Reb, 4 AST, 2.0 STL 45% FG, 41% 3pt)
-If Fox doesn't show any growth in his second season you start to worry.
Hopeful season projection( 30MPG 15 ppg, 4Reb, 6 Ast, 45% FG, 33% 3pt, 1.4 STL)
-Bagley has the type of game that should have an immediate impact, even if there's still a ton of skill development for him to come.Hopeful season projection (26 MPG 14PPG, 9 Reb, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK 50% FG, 32% 3Pt)
- I think this is the year where we see where Buddy can cap out at. Can he become a 18-20 ppg scorer who has addded some 2nd-3rd ball handler playmaking? Or does he cap at out 15 ppg of the bench scorer? Hopeful Season Projection ( 30 MPG 16 PPG, 4 Reb, 3 AST, 1.5 STL, 45% FG, 43% 3pt)
- For Giles Im just looking to see what he looks like, whether he has that "special" feel to him, or at least shows glimpses of it. I honestly have no clue what to expect. The franchises true wild card. Hopeful season projection( 20 MPG, 9 Pts, 7 Reb, 2 AST, 1.4 BLK, 1 STL, 50% FG)
- For Bogi I'm expecting a solid jump, I can easily see him as a 17-4-4 guy in his second season. Having weapons like Bagley and Giles should help him too. Hopeful season projection (32 MPG 16 Pts, 3Reb, 4 AST, 2.0 STL 45% FG, 41% 3pt)
I've heard Coach Joerger say multiple times that he wants to play fast and sees this team as fast and athletic team that can and should play fast. I did not attend any games last year (I live in a different state without an NBA team) but from what I heard it was a common theme that on game days for him to be heard trying to speed the guys up. I think that's his intention, if he can't get it done then I think we'll eventually move on.
WCS' biggest problem is himself. He has a lot of talent and talks with confidence, but doesn't bring all of it with him onto the court. Christie said recently that WCS makes a lot of fantastic plays in practice that have never made it onto the court. That is all about confidence IMO. It's like the games where he is knocking down 4 or 5 18 footers and doesn't take 1 the following game.
I wonder if playing with 2 other athletic (more talented) players will help him to relax a little more and just play. I know several on here think he plays lazy at times, while I have always gotten the impression that he is just over thinking things.
I wonder if playing with 2 other athletic (more talented) players will help him to relax a little more and just play. I know several on here think he plays lazy at times, while I have always gotten the impression that he is just over thinking things.