The Kings young core - is it enough?

[RichieInRocklin]

It's a pretty crap core in all honesty the ceiling is not that high and aside from Bogie we don't really know if anyone else is going to be consistent and solid at both ends. Buddy Hield who gets a ton of hype on here in his first two seasons sucked in games when something was on the line (e.g. first 50 games of the season) and than exploded when his team was completely out of contention playing in meaningless games towards the end against other bench players and lesser intensity games. Fox and Bagley have potential and I'm not buying the Giles hype I heard Papa was Marc Gasol and hearing Giles as Webber scares me and I just don't think Skal has any IQ for the game his decision making takes half an hour to process. WCS is fools gold has all the tools but zero consistency and heart.

The only three I would keep are Bogie/Fox/Bagley (maybe Giles depending) in saying alll that at least we got a bunch of guys aside WCS who will compete that's a step up from many more previously talented on paper Kings teams.

Come on. you're either kidding us or yourself. This is a good solid core of extremely talented young players who with a few years of experience and hard work will definitely make you eat your words. Of course, the FO will have to add some players through free agency or trades to get us over the top, but we will get there.

GO KINGS !!!

 

[206Fan]

I think your expectations on Fox last year might have been too high based on this breakdown. 19-20 year old who held his own and showed the potential we all want. It’s now hard work over the next 2 years, mainly getting stronger and the continued work on his shot. I don’t know about franchise player but can this guy eventually play at a Teague or Conley level at some point? Yes, I think he can given the hard work to get there.

My expectations for Fox weren't all that high. I was one of the many who didn't see him as our franchise savior nor John Wall 2.0. My reality for him was very much in check. I just expected him to be a lot more aggressive on offense, but we just never really saw that from him. Teague and Conley are your 3rd best players on a playoff team. I'd be ok with that, but I'm not seeing Fox as a franchise player.

 

[VF21]

Giles is a total question mark. Shouldn't even include him until he proves his fitness.

WRONG! He is not a total question mark. He's been scrimmaging with the guys since FEBRUARY. If he was a complete and total bust, we'd know. Prove his fitness? Again, he's been scrimmaging with the guys for months.

Giles is part of our roster. He's being included in virtually every discussion of our future. NOT having him in that list would just be silly. If he doesn't pan out, then we revise not now.

 

[VF21]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1010569767785099269

 

[mac]

I've heard Coach Joerger say multiple times that he wants to play fast and sees this team as fast and athletic team that can and should play fast. I did not attend any games last year (I live in a different state without an NBA team) but from what I heard it was a common theme that on game days for him to be heard trying to speed the guys up. I think that's his intention, if he can't get it done then I think we'll eventually move on.

Yeah he's been saying that since joining the Kings, unfortunately the product on the floor and the lineups he played suggest otherwise

 

[jiimbob]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1010569767785099269

That is a great picture, tres amigos. Sign of good things to come.

 

[VF21]

Yeah he's been saying that since joining the Kings, unfortunately the product on the floor and the lineups he played suggest otherwise

His roster this year is going to be a lot more copacetic.

 

[Kingz19]

Depends

Assuming Bagley and Giles deliver, are their games redundant?

We’ve seen star PF or C log jams that ended with only one being around.

Remember C-Webb, Rasheed Wallace, and Juwan Howard were on the same team. Eventually the Wizards only had Howard. Recently we saw the Nuggets feel the need to split up Jokic and Nurkic.

I really don’t know much about how Bagley and Giles games compare, mainly because the scarcity of relevant Giles footage, but the Kings seem to think they are the future PF and C for this team. They both may turn out great but that can easily run into one of them having to go.

 

[KingsSelecao]

I think the real core is Bagley, Fox and Giles

Hield and Bogdan are much older. Not even sure either will be with Sac by the time they get in the playoffs.

I imagine we’ll get a first look in the Summer League.

 

[Kingster]

I think Buddy is the most important player for all of us to keep in mind when we assess this team. Buddy, one of the older young players (if that makes sense) started to look like a legit keeper in the second half of last year's season. He didn't look like a guy putting up numbers on a lousy team to me. He looked like a guy who could put up good numbers on a good team, a guy who had some grit, got you some rebounds, made plays for others, and most surprisingly for me, he played some real defense. He looked like a veteran! Did anyone see that coming? It just happened almost like spontaneous generation. Yes, we saw a bit of it in some prior games when he made a big steal and then followed up with a 3 pointer. That was great. And we saw him flying into the paint sometimes to get a big rebound that ended up with a winning basket. That was great too. But it was sporadic, and it didn't include the consistent grit and the consistent making plays for others off the dribble, much less defense. Yes, he could still improve his handle, but it has improved considerably since he came to the Kings. My point in all of this is that Buddy Hield is a metaphor for all the young players we have. When it comes together you're probably not going to see it coming, at least not like you expected. That is what is so fantastic about watching a young team like this. The surprises are going to knock you off your chair. You just don't know when.

 

[mac]

WCS' biggest problem is himself. He has a lot of talent and talks with confidence, but doesn't bring all of it with him onto the court. Christie said recently that WCS makes a lot of fantastic plays in practice that have never made it onto the court. That is all about confidence IMO. It's like the games where he is knocking down 4 or 5 18 footers and doesn't take 1 the following game.

I wonder if playing with 2 other athletic (more talented) players will help him to relax a little more and just play. I know several on here think he plays lazy at times, while I have always gotten the impression that he is just over thinking things.

If it were merely finishing around the rim/ taking shots I'd attribute it to confidence ala Ben McLemore. But this athletic self-proclaimed Porzingis gives you 15 rebounds followed by 5 games of 5 rebounds. That's laziness.

 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah he's been saying that since joining the Kings, unfortunately the product on the floor and the lineups he played suggest otherwise

To be fair, the make up of the Kings roster in his two seasons as head coach has unfortunately led to a lot of Grit'n'Grind style dump the ball to Z-Bo or Boogie and hope something happens offense. I thought the team looked better in the last month of the season where Z-Bo was largely benched and Joerger had enough faith in Fox and Bogie and Buddy to run the team at a faster pace (also WCS was pretty much the big we had capable of playing at the elbow at that point).

We'll see if that was a precursor of things to come or an aberration from Joerger's usual pseudo-Princeton offense system.

 

[Tetsujin]

I think Buddy is the most important player for all of us to keep in mind when we assess this team. Buddy, one of the older young players (if that makes sense) started to look like a legit keeper in the second half of last year's season. He didn't look like a guy putting up numbers on a lousy team to me. He looked like a guy who could put up good numbers on a good team, a guy who had some grit, got you some rebounds, made plays for others, and most surprisingly for me, he played some real defense. He looked like a veteran! Did anyone see that coming? It just happened almost like spontaneous generation. Yes, we saw a bit of it in some prior games when he made a big steal and then followed up with a 3 pointer. That was great. And we saw him flying into the paint sometimes to get a big rebound that ended up with a winning basket. That was great too. But it was sporadic, and it didn't include the consistent grit and the consistent making plays for others off the dribble, much less defense. Yes, he could still improve his handle, but it has improved considerably since he came to the Kings. My point in all of this is that Buddy Hield is a metaphor for all the young players we have. When it comes together you're probably not going to see it coming, at least not like you expected. That is what is so fantastic about watching a young team like this. The surprises are going to knock you off your chair. You just don't know when.

Who are you and what have you done with the real Kingster?

 

[Sac.1989]

This is the thing that I was talking about. There are many people talking about Giles as though he is a part of our core. Has he shown that he is ready to play basketball again after recovering from injury? Has he shown that he can even stay on an NBA roster? Harry Giles is an unknown to the point that you cant consider him to be a part of the core. We know very little about him.

Agree but it's trending that way. All the sights and sounds from the organization are that he is. Worst case we have an insurance policy in Bagley

 

[jcwkings]

I think the real core is Bagley, Fox and Giles

Hield and Bogdan are much older. Not even sure either will be with Sac by the time they get in the playoffs.

I imagine we’ll get a first look in the Summer League.

Uhh they're 24 and 25 years old. When exactly do you expect the Kings to finally make the playoffs? 2028? Lol

 

[Kingster]

Who are you and what have you done with the real Kingster?

I'm a Gemini. What can I say?

 

[Blob]

It's a pretty crap core in all honesty the ceiling is not that high and aside from Bogie we don't really know if anyone else is going to be consistent and solid at both ends. Buddy Hield who gets a ton of hype on here in his first two seasons sucked in games when something was on the line (e.g. first 50 games of the season) and than exploded when his team was completely out of contention playing in meaningless games towards the end against other bench players and lesser intensity games. Fox and Bagley have potential and I'm not buying the Giles hype I heard Papa was Marc Gasol and hearing Giles as Webber scares me and I just don't think Skal has any IQ for the game his decision making takes half an hour to process. WCS is fools gold has all the tools but zero consistency and heart.

The only three I would keep are Bogie/Fox/Bagley (maybe Giles depending) in saying alll that at least we got a bunch of guys aside WCS who will compete that's a step up from many more previously talented on paper Kings teams.

Buddy was 5th in NBA in 3s as a rookie (43%) and finished 9th in 3s (43%) in a league that covets 3 point shooting. The two super teams use the three ball as their primary weapon. The next probable super team, the Celtics, make the 3 a big part of the attack. If you are dismissing Buddy, who is a relentless worker improving handles, stepping up his D, overcoming bias of his coach (who started G-Leaguer Jackson over him), you are basically aren't paying attention to the way the game is played at highest level. I thought Buddy could be a star going back to his OSU days and before we got him. He changes ends. He moves tirelessly off the ball. He has wiggle and better shot creation than his critics claim. He has a beautiful shot and ice water in his veins. When he gets on a hot streak, he's one of the best in the business. It would be nice if he had more bounce and length but his extreme activity compensates. My confidence wavered the first half last season (with our slow down pace and coach bias) but he's on track to be special. The fact you would exclude him from the core is an egregious oversight to his formidable skills and the nature of the league. Anything you say is suspicious IMO if you cannot see that Buddy is part of the solution not part of the problem. There are those who want to indite Buddy for being the return on the Boogie trade. I don't know if this includes you, but to those holding that against him, I say get over it. It is not Buddy's fault Cousins ran himself out of town with his antics and indiscretions.

 

[Blob]

Buddy is not a player who responds well to pressure

Wut

 

[kingdivac]

WRONG! He is not a total question mark. He's been scrimmaging with the guys since FEBRUARY. If he was a complete and total bust, we'd know. Prove his fitness? Again, he's been scrimmaging with the guys for months.

Giles is part of our roster. He's being included in virtually every discussion of our future. NOT having him in that list would just be silly. If he doesn't pan out, then we revise not now.

Get with the program, he's not logged one NBA minute.....NBA fitness....scrimmaging is nice, but its not gameplay. The statement was he's a "core" player after not playing 1 minute nor proving his fitness for a season. After he's played a season successfully, fine, but its the wrong adjective at this point. There's nothing silly about it. Talk about jumping the gun.

 

[parker]

I honestly think we'll have a pretty good idea where we stand by the end of this calendar year.

-If Fox doesn't show any growth in his second season you start to worry.
Hopeful season projection( 30MPG 15 ppg, 4Reb, 6 Ast, 45% FG, 33% 3pt, 1.4 STL)

-Bagley has the type of game that should have an immediate impact, even if there's still a ton of skill development for him to come.Hopeful season projection (26 MPG 14PPG, 9 Reb, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK 50% FG, 32% 3Pt)

- I think this is the year where we see where Buddy can cap out at. Can he become a 18-20 ppg scorer who has addded some 2nd-3rd ball handler playmaking? Or does he cap at out 15 ppg of the bench scorer? Hopeful Season Projection ( 30 MPG 16 PPG, 4 Reb, 3 AST, 1.5 STL, 45% FG, 43% 3pt)

- For Giles Im just looking to see what he looks like, whether he has that "special" feel to him, or at least shows glimpses of it. I honestly have no clue what to expect. The franchises true wild card. Hopeful season projection( 20 MPG, 9 Pts, 7 Reb, 2 AST, 1.4 BLK, 1 STL, 50% FG)

- For Bogi I'm expecting a solid jump, I can easily see him as a 17-4-4 guy in his second season. Having weapons like Bagley and Giles should help him too. Hopeful season projection (32 MPG 16 Pts, 3Reb, 4 AST, 2.0 STL 45% FG, 41% 3pt)

I hope to see more minutes out of Fox, Giles and Bagley than you are projecting.

 

[roasthawg]

Get with the program, he's not logged one NBA minute.....NBA fitness....scrimmaging is nice, but its not gameplay. The statement was he's a "core" player after not playing 1 minute nor proving his fitness for a season. After he's played a season successfully, fine, but its the wrong adjective at this point. There's nothing silly about it. Talk about jumping the gun.

Bagley hasn't logged a minute yet either and he's definitely part of the core. Maybe you're just struggling with the definition of core... For the Kings right now it's the talented youth that have the ability to help turn this team around. Giles is definitely a part of that.

 

[24 rick barry]

Buddy was 5th in NBA in 3s as a rookie (43%) and finished 9th in 3s (43%) in a league that covets 3 point shooting. The two super teams use the three ball as their primary weapon. The next probable super team, the Celtics, make the 3 a big part of the attack. If you are dismissing Buddy, who is a relentless worker improving handles, stepping up his D, overcoming bias of his coach (who started G-Leaguer Jackson over him), you are basically aren't paying attention to the way the game is played at highest level. I thought Buddy could be a star going back to his OSU days and before we got him. He changes ends. He moves tirelessly off the ball. He has wiggle and better shot creation than his critics claim. He has a beautiful shot and ice water in his veins. When he gets on a hot streak, he's one of the best in the business. It would be nice if he had more bounce and length but his extreme activity compensates. My confidence wavered the first half last season (with our slow down pace and coach bias) but he's on track to be special. The fact you would exclude him from the core is an egregious oversight to his formidable skills and the nature of the league. Anything you say is suspicious IMO if you cannot see that Buddy is part of the solution not part of the problem. There are those who want to indite Buddy for being the return on the Boogie trade. I don't know if this includes you, but to those holding that against him, I say get over it. It is not Buddy's fault Cousins ran himself out of town with his antics and indiscretions.

Well said.

 

[sactowndog]

I honestly think we'll have a pretty good idea where we stand by the end of this calendar year.

-If Fox doesn't show any growth in his second season you start to worry.
Hopeful season projection( 30MPG 15 ppg, 4Reb, 6 Ast, 45% FG, 33% 3pt, 1.4 STL)

-Bagley has the type of game that should have an immediate impact, even if there's still a ton of skill development for him to come.Hopeful season projection (26 MPG 14PPG, 9 Reb, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK 50% FG, 32% 3Pt)

- I think this is the year where we see where Buddy can cap out at. Can he become a 18-20 ppg scorer who has addded some 2nd-3rd ball handler playmaking? Or does he cap at out 15 ppg of the bench scorer? Hopeful Season Projection ( 30 MPG 16 PPG, 4 Reb, 3 AST, 1.5 STL, 45% FG, 43% 3pt)

- For Giles Im just looking to see what he looks like, whether he has that "special" feel to him, or at least shows glimpses of it. I honestly have no clue what to expect. The franchises true wild card. Hopeful season projection( 20 MPG, 9 Pts, 7 Reb, 2 AST, 1.4 BLK, 1 STL, 50% FG)

- For Bogi I'm expecting a solid jump, I can easily see him as a 17-4-4 guy in his second season. Having weapons like Bagley and Giles should help him too. Hopeful season projection (32 MPG 16 Pts, 3Reb, 4 AST, 2.0 STL 45% FG, 41% 3pt)

For Giles if he really is the Rookie of the year candidate many internally are projecting his performance will need to be higher than that.

For Bogi not sure how the knee surgery has impacted him. But if healthy and rested I think he plays 34-35. He can play limited primary initiator with Buddy or slide to 3 with Fox and Buddy in a small ball line up.

Of your projections it is Fox I’m worried about the most.

 

[sactowndog]

Wut

Buddy puts a lot of pressure on himself and played best coming off the bench. The Kings should let him flourish in that role. Both Fox and Bogi excel in end of game situations. It’s okay to let guys find their roles.

 

[kingdivac]

Bagley hasn't logged a minute yet either and he's definitely part of the core. Maybe you're just struggling with the definition of core... For the Kings right now it's the talented youth that have the ability to help turn this team around. Giles is definitely a part of that.

I'm not struggling with anything, thank you.

Core players should be players who have a 'track record' as solid or exceptional players.

This isn't difficult to grasp. Giles was held out precisely because of his fitness, so to call him a core player right now is premature. You have no idea how or if Giles will be able to keep fit much less play at a solid or exceptional level for a season. Technically, Bagley is not a core player either until he performs and shows that he merits that adjective. We expect Bagley to, but that's the subtlety I'm trying to point out with calling a player a "core" player. I might say "I expect Bagley to be a core player", which I do.

 

[roasthawg]

I'm not struggling with anything, thank you.

Core players should be players who have a 'track record' as solid or exceptional players.

This isn't difficult to grasp. Giles was held out precisely because of his fitness, so to call him a core player right now is premature. You have no idea how or if Giles will be able to keep fit much less play at a solid or exceptional level for a season. Technically, Bagley is not a core player either until he performs and shows that he merits that adjective. We expect Bagley to, but that's the subtlety I'm trying to point out with calling a player a "core" player. I might say "I expect Bagley to be a core player", which I do.

You're missing the entire point of the thread. Our entire core is unproven. Our collection of talent included buddy, bogi, fox, Bagley, and Giles. These are the guys that project as long term fixtures in the rotation. Every one of them that doesn't work out sets the team back. We're hoping for a couple of all stars to emerge from that group with the rest developing into good role players. This is all about expectations.

 

[VF21]

I'm not struggling with anything, thank you.

Core players should be players who have a 'track record' as solid or exceptional players.

This isn't difficult to grasp. Giles was held out precisely because of his fitness, so to call him a core player right now is premature. You have no idea how or if Giles will be able to keep fit much less play at a solid or exceptional level for a season. Technically, Bagley is not a core player either until he performs and shows that he merits that adjective. We expect Bagley to, but that's the subtlety I'm trying to point out with calling a player a "core" player. I might say "I expect Bagley to be a core player", which I do.

...

Did you even bother to read the initial post? Here let me quote for you:

De’Aaron Fox
Buddy Hield
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Marvin Bagley
Harry Giles

These are the Kings. The young talent acquisition phase is over. The Kings don’t have a pick next year. In 2020 they won’t be high lottery. This is it. This is the core. Is it enough? Idk.

---------------------------------------

If someone isn't grasping something, it's you. The premise is pretty obvious.

 

[steelevt]

You're missing the entire point of the thread. Our entire core is unproven. Our collection of talent included buddy, bogi, fox, Bagley, and Giles. These are the guys that project as long term fixtures in the rotation. Every one of them that doesn't work out sets the team back. We're hoping for a couple of all stars to emerge from that group with the rest developing into good role players. This is all about expectations.

A lot of people have so much doubt in our young guys after a year or two. Im not saying we're at their level now but I bet no one expected the warriors core to be this great after the first year or 2. Curry was injury prone, klay was a late lottery pick and Draymond was a second rounder. Imagine if everyone have up on them to soon.

 

[jcassio]

I'm not struggling with anything, thank you.

Core players should be players who have a 'track record' as solid or exceptional players.

This isn't difficult to grasp. Giles was held out precisely because of his fitness, so to call him a core player right now is premature. You have no idea how or if Giles will be able to keep fit much less play at a solid or exceptional level for a season. Technically, Bagley is not a core player either until he performs and shows that he merits that adjective. We expect Bagley to, but that's the subtlety I'm trying to point out with calling a player a "core" player. I might say "I expect Bagley to be a core player", which I do.

I suggest that "core" can mean whatever you want it to mean. In this case, our "core" as it is being used in this thread is about unproven young players we hope will take us to the promised land (or at least within sight of the promised land). Feel free to start your own thread in which "core" refers to proven players. Only you may not get far if it's about current Kings players.

 

[206Fan]

A lot of people have so much doubt in our young guys after a year or two. Im not saying we're at their level now but I bet no one expected the warriors core to be this great after the first year or 2. Curry was injury prone, klay was a late lottery pick and Draymond was a second rounder. Imagine if everyone have up on them to soon.

In Stephs' rookie year, he averaged around 17.5ppg 5.9apg on 46/43/88. In his 2nd year he averaged 18.6ppg 5.8apg on 48/44/93

The other guys didn't emerge yet, but Curry is better than anyone we have on our team. To start off a core, you need a franchise player.