The Debate is Over...

[hoopsfan]

"however, kobe is an incredibly selfish player. he has become more selfish as the years have worn on. t-mac is the opposite. t-mac is maturing as a player, and becoming less selfish."

You've been listening to BSPN way too much. Do you even watch their games??

 

[Fillmoe]

Kobe is a good player he just gets a rep............. but TMac has clearly improved greatly from his Orlando days........ he shares the ball more often now....

 

[Padrino]

"however, kobe is an incredibly selfish player. he has become more selfish as the years have worn on. t-mac is the opposite. t-mac is maturing as a player, and becoming less selfish."

You've been listening to BSPN way too much. Do you even watch their games??

i obviously do not watch nearly enough lakers or rockets games to make a completely fair comparison, but who can? who actually watches all 82 of LA's and all 82 of houston's games to make a fair comparison of bryant and mcgrady? i'm just sayin, from what i have observed watching several games involving both players, kobe is moving backwards...taking way too many forced shots, and not involving his teammates nearly enough. t-mac, notorious for not being a team player, is beginning to get it, and is putting up incredible numbers while at the same time involving his teammates more. maybe it took him an entire season and a first round playoff series to figure it out, but i honestly believe he is surpassing kobe bryant. not because he has more skills, but because he's playing less selfish ball. as bull**** as espn is, they aren't wrong about everything, especially something as blatant as kobe bryant's non-existent notion of "team play."

 

[Bibby_10]

"however, kobe is an incredibly selfish player. he has become more selfish as the years have worn on. t-mac is the opposite. t-mac is maturing as a player, and becoming less selfish."

You've been listening to BSPN way too much. Do you even watch their games??

Agreed. Kobe was unselfish this season even though honestly he didnt have many options to pass to.

 

[Freakout]

Agreed. Kobe was unselfish this season even though honestly he didnt have many options to pass to.

Hell has just frozen over.

 

[Gargamel]

Hell has just frozen over.

Honestly, a number of posters here are a lot more complimentary of him than you'd find on other boards, including LA boards. I'm content when the worst he's called on an NBA board is ballhog.

 

[AleksandarN]

In my mind, at least. I believe that Tracy McGrady is the best non-Shaq player in the NBA, a title I once believed was Kobe's. Seeing Tracy take a team like Houston and carry it (Yao is pretty good. Like, Rik Smits good. He is not a superstar or even Walt Bellamy good), I think that he has surpassed Kobe's status. Kobe has won championships, yeah, but I think it becomes more and more apparent that Shaq was THE, not the, but THE force behind them. Magic make it to the finals... with Shaq. Lakers win championships... with Shaq. Heat are probably going to at least the EC finals... with Shaq. There is indeed a common denominator. Yao has been horrible in this series, and yet McGrady has taken the Rockets and carried them into a decisive game seven. To me, there isn't even a question anymore; Tracy McGrady is the best non-Shaq player in the NBA.

Thoughts?

Kobe a better player defensively and offensively. He is also a better clutch player. Kobe is also a better playmaker then TMac. He knows how to win period. I Kobe is a better player period.

 

[AleksandarN]

I think a lot of basketball fans have thought Tracy was better than Kobe for years. The Shack trade, and the resultant consequences, certainly demonstrated who was who in Los Angeles, and Miami.

Oh yes, Steve Nash is the 2005 NBA MVP.

Oh well, I guess it's like the Miss Universe contest. Every third-world country gets a winner now and then whether they deserve the crown or not.

I guess it was Canada's turn.

What? Since when is Canada a third-world country. That is very pathetic and uncalled for. At least have some manners. It's comments like that give americans a bad name.

 

[Gargamel]

Kobe a better player defensively and offensively. He is also a better clutch player. Kobe is also a better playmaker then TMac. He knows how to win period. I Kobe is a better player period.

"You know it."

"Bah!"

 

[El Duque]

Kobe a better player defensively and offensively. He is also a better clutch player. Kobe is also a better playmaker then TMac. He knows how to win period. I Kobe is a better player period.

Well, I guess that's your opinion.

Shaq and PJ know how to win. Kobe with his own team has won as many championships as T-Mac has won with his own team. Defensively, it's debatable. Both are very, very good man defenders when motivated, but T-Mac has longer arms and better lateral movement. Offensively, Kobe has a better post game, but T-Mac is better in the lane and has a smoother jumper from three-point range. They're about even at mid-range, though Kobe has a fallaway that bails him out. T-Mac was in the playoffs this year. Kobe wasn't.

Not a knock on Kobe, really. I just think that two guys I considered to be more or less interchangeable have some key differences, and I think that while T-Mac is coming to terms with "the establishment", Kobe still seems like he would rather blame the other 6.1 billion people on earth for most anything before he himself has to take some heat.

 

[AleksandarN]

Well, I guess that's your opinion.

Shaq and PJ know how to win. Kobe with his own team has won as many championships as T-Mac has won with his own team. Defensively, it's debatable. Both are very, very good man defenders when motivated, but T-Mac has longer arms and better lateral movement. Offensively, Kobe has a better post game, but T-Mac is better in the lane and has a smoother jumper from three-point range. They're about even at mid-range, though Kobe has a fallaway that bails him out. T-Mac was in the playoffs this year. Kobe wasn't.

Not a knock on Kobe, really. I just think that two guys I considered to be more or less interchangeable have some key differences, and I think that while T-Mac is coming to terms with "the establishment", Kobe still seems like he would rather blame the other 6.1 billion people on earth for most anything before he himself has to take some heat.

Where did you get that idea from. In the past year he was accepting his faults. He ready amit what he did was wrong.

 

[KP]

Hey, I hate Kobe as much as the next guy but I don't think T-mac is better than he is, I don't even think it's that close. Sure Kobe had Shaq to help him win those 3 championships but Kobe made huge play after huge play during those runs. T-mac seems to be allergic to the 2nd round. Don't get me wrong Mcgrady is a great player and he has made some big shots (13 pts in how many seconds??) but so has Kobe, plus he's done it when it really matters most . Whether it's his fault or lack of talent around him, T-mac hasn't even been in those situations yet... I'd have to give the nod to Kobe until I see how he responds when he is.

 

[AleksandarN]

Hey, I hate Kobe as much as the next guy but I don't think T-mac is better than he is, I don't even think it's that close. Sure Kobe had Shaq to help him win those 3 championships but Kobe made huge play after huge play during those runs. T-mac seems to be allergic to the 2nd round. Don't get me wrong Mcgrady is a great player and he has made some big shots (13 pts in how many seconds??) but so has Kobe, plus he's done it when it really matters most . Whether it's his fault or lack of talent around him, T-mac hasn't even been in those situations yet... I'd have to give the nod to Kobe until I see how he responds when he is.

Is the world coming to the end KP defending Kobe!!!!!

 

[KP]

Is the world coming to the end KP defending Kobe!!!!!

I know, I know... One thing I will say is that it is pretty much obvious now who the best player was on the Lakers and who the 2nd best player was the whole time. It is Kobe's fault he couldn't see that, and after every victory the Heat keep piling on the point becomes that much clearer. If the Lakers can't pull out of this tailspin (with their salary problems it'll take some luck), and Miami continues winning the next few years, Buss and Kobe are going to look like 2 of the biggest idiots in the NBA.
(does that sound better

?)

 

[hoopsfan]

I think if Miami gives Shaq what he wants..they're the ones that will have salary problems. This year is Miami's shot IMO..after Shaq gets his extension, he'll go back to being the Shaq of old.

"Kobe with his own team has won as many championships as T-Mac has won with his own team."

And Shaq has won the same number. (He hasn't won anything this year..don't know if he will.)

 

[PixelPusher]

I think if Miami gives Shaq what he wants..they're the ones that will have salary problems. This year is Miami's shot IMO..after Shaq gets his extension, he'll go back to being the Shaq of old.

"Kobe with his own team has won as many championships as T-Mac has won with his own team."

And Shaq has won the same number. (He hasn't won anything this year..don't know if he will.)

do you and Gargamel get on your knees and pray to Almighty God every night that Shaq and the Heat don't win a championship?

 

[Gargamel]

do you and Gargamel get on your knees and pray to Almighty God every night that Shaq and the Heat don't win a championship?

Don't know about hoops, but that's a yes for me.

 

[El Duque]

Don't know about hoops, but that's a yes for me.

Let's go, Diesel!

 

[Gargamel]

Let's go, Diesel!

Go off an embankment. Nah, just kidding. Sorta.

 

[ovrush]

The debate may be over between Kobe and Tmac, but for my money, I take Lebron, and Dwayne Wade over either. Both those young guys have shown to be selfless team guys who would never quit on their teams reguardless of supporting cast or situation. Niether of which can be said of Tmac or Kobe

 

[El Duque]

Go off an embankment. Nah, just kidding. Sorta.

I still love ya, man.

 

[JayBird]

I have come to the conclusion that the only way Laker fans will ever admit that Shaq > Kobe is if the Heat pull it off this year. And even then, it is doubtful.

Regardless.... let's go Heat!!

 

[Gargamel]

I have come to the conclusion that the only way Laker fans will ever admit that Shaq > Kobe is if the Heat pull it off this year. And even then, it is doubtful.

We just know that Shaq's legacy is welded to the heavy contributions of Kobe and vice versa. Outside observers who dislike Kobe aren't willing to give credit where it's due.

 

[El Duque]

I'll give credit to Kobe. Just not as much as I give to Shaq. He wouldn't have won those championships without Kobe, but I think he could've won them with McGrady, Pierce, Reggie M, or Iverson. Of course, that is very select company. Kobe's a great player. Shaq is the most physically dominating individual in any sport in history since Wilt was at Kansas. I used to have no respect for him, but a little distance from the Kings, and I can see that he is an amazing player.

 

[JayBird]

I'll give credit to Kobe. Just not as much as I give to Shaq. He wouldn't have won those championships without Kobe, but I think he could've won them with McGrady, Pierce, Reggie M, or Iverson. Of course, that is very select company. Kobe's a great player. Shaq is the most physically dominating individual in any sport in history since Wilt was at Kansas. I used to have no respect for him, but a little distance from the Kings, and I can see that he is an amazing player.

Exactly. You know I dislike Kobe, but I WILL give him credit for contributing to the championships. You can substitute Kobe for any of the players mentioned above, team them up with Shaq, and the Lakers still win. Substitute Shaq for any other big man during those three years, and the Lakers are ring-less.

Both were key players, but Kobe was expendable.

 

[KA_2]

The debate may be over between Kobe and Tmac, but for my money, I take Lebron, and Dwayne Wade over either. Both those young guys have shown to be selfless team guys who would never quit on their teams reguardless of supporting cast or situation. Niether of which can be said of Tmac or Kobe

Haha, what? What is this based on, your imagination?

 

[KA_2]

Exactly. You know I dislike Kobe, but I WILL give him credit for contributing to the championships. You can substitute Kobe for any of the players mentioned above, team them up with Shaq, and the Lakers still win. Substitute Shaq for any other big man during those three years, and the Lakers are ring-less.

Both were key players, but Kobe was expendable.

LMAO. Lakers wouldn't get anywhere close to a title with Reggie instead of Kobe. Reggie is barely a HOF'er. Pierce won't make the Hall either. AI is debatable, especially defensively, but that's a possibility (and AI is a surefire HOF'er). Tmac certainly, though even then I have my doubts as to whether they'd win 3 titles and not just 1 or 2.

Putting Pierce or Reggie in the same sentence as Kobe (or Tmac) really is just laughable.

 

[VF21]

The debate may be over between Kobe and Tmac, but for my money, I take Lebron, and Dwayne Wade over either. Both those young guys have shown to be selfless team guys who would never quit on their teams reguardless of supporting cast or situation. Niether of which can be said of Tmac or Kobe

Well said ... and not without merit, IMHO. I like the attitudes of both LeBron James and Dwayne Wade. And I've totally changed my opinion of LBJ and what he can do for the league.

Are they better players than Kobe or TMac? Too early to tell. Are they better teammates? Without a doubt.

 

[VF21]

LMAO. Lakers wouldn't get anywhere close to a title with Reggie instead of Kobe. Reggie is barely a HOF'er. Pierce won't make the Hall either. AI is debatable, especially defensively, but that's a possibility (and AI is a surefire HOF'er). Tmac certainly, though even then I have my doubts as to whether they'd win 3 titles and not just 1 or 2.

Putting Pierce or Reggie in the same sentence as Kobe (or Tmac) really is just laughable.

Whoa. Did Jaybird hit a nerve or something?

Sorry, but I happen to agree with him. Reggie, Paul Pierce, Iverson and McGrady could have stepped in for Kobe - ego issues aside - and most likely gotten the job done.

You may not agree, but it's not laughable IMHO.

 

[AleksandarN]

Whoa. Did Jaybird hit a nerve or something?

Sorry, but I happen to agree with him. Reggie, Paul Pierce, Iverson and McGrady could have stepped in for Kobe - ego issues aside - and most likely gotten the job done.

You may not agree, but it's not laughable IMHO.

I disaggree what makes Kobe different is his ability to step and creat shots for himself and is alot better than any of those players on the defensive end. He can also play PG. Now ask yourself would those people be able to do that. I think that what helped in them winning 3 tittles.