The Debate is Over...

El Duque

El Duque

G-League
#1
#1
In my mind, at least. I believe that Tracy McGrady is the best non-Shaq player in the NBA, a title I once believed was Kobe's. Seeing Tracy take a team like Houston and carry it (Yao is pretty good. Like, Rik Smits good. He is not a superstar or even Walt Bellamy good), I think that he has surpassed Kobe's status. Kobe has won championships, yeah, but I think it becomes more and more apparent that Shaq was THE, not the, but THE force behind them. Magic make it to the finals... with Shaq. Lakers win championships... with Shaq. Heat are probably going to at least the EC finals... with Shaq. There is indeed a common denominator. Yao has been horrible in this series, and yet McGrady has taken the Rockets and carried them into a decisive game seven. To me, there isn't even a question anymore; Tracy McGrady is the best non-Shaq player in the NBA.

Thoughts?
 
atxrocker

atxrocker

Starter
#2
#2
Not too long ago I may have disagreed but after seeing T-mac do his thing and carry his Rockets to game 7 with a heavily favored Dallas team makes me reconsider. Mcgrady is one hell of a player and very clutch as well. He seems to be very hungry and has a strong desire to win. The Kings could definetely use a T-mac type of player. He is fastly becoming one of my personal favorites and I love his game. Go Rockets.. cant stand the Mavs
 
M

mavsman

Bench
#3
#3
Hey TMAC is my new favorite non-Mav player in the league I think he's incredible. I was a doubter in the preseason about the trade that sent him to Houston, but little did I know the extent of this man's talents.

He's the best pound-for-pound player in the NBA in my opinion.
 
El Duque

El Duque

G-League
#6
#6
Sloter, I would tend to have agreed with you a couple of months ago, but after watching Yao drop every pass thrown his way, his refusal to dunk at 7'6" (!!!!!) and his tendency to flail when hit in the post instead of finishing the play and getting a chance at three points, I can't blame Tracy all that much, though I think he should get the ball down low more often. Most of the passes Tracy has thrown have been very good, he's thrown a lot of them, and his teammates continue to drop them.
 
F

Fillmoe

Guest
#7
#7
i loved when TMac went over to Yao on the bench and was encouraging him..... showed great leadership..... Tracy is changing from selfish star to great team player
 
quick dog

quick dog

Starter
#9
#9
I think a lot of basketball fans have thought Tracy was better than Kobe for years. The Shack trade, and the resultant consequences, certainly demonstrated who was who in Los Angeles, and Miami.

Oh yes, Steve Nash is the 2005 NBA MVP.

Oh well, I guess it's like the Miss Universe contest. Every third-world country gets a winner now and then whether they deserve the crown or not.

I guess it was Canada's turn.
 
F

Fillmoe

Guest
#10
#10
quick dog said:
Oh well, I guess it's like the Miss Universe contest. Every third-world country gets a winner now and then whether they deserve the crown or not.

I guess it was Canada's turn.
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did you just call Canada a third world country........? LOL!
 
S

SacKingsFX

G-League
#11
#11
yo i used to love tmac, especially his first year with orlando, but then he started to get selfish and immature. This season JVG has whipped him into shape, and he's definately developed.

"It feels so good to get out of the first round"
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#12
#12
mcgrady is finally a leader, not only that but he has heart now too.... no one can question that after game 6....
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#15
#15
tracy mcgrady is emerging as "the elite" baller in the league. ive never seen a guy bomb threes in peoples faces like that. and he does it all the time
 
sloter

sloter

Starter
#16
#16
El Duque said:
Sloter, I would tend to have agreed with you a couple of months ago, but after watching Yao drop every pass thrown his way, his refusal to dunk at 7'6" (!!!!!) and his tendency to flail when hit in the post instead of finishing the play and getting a chance at three points, I can't blame Tracy all that much, though I think he should get the ball down low more often. Most of the passes Tracy has thrown have been very good, he's thrown a lot of them, and his teammates continue to drop them.
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Hm... he dropped one pass which by the way he wasn't expecting to get since he wasn't getting anything from Tracy anyway... I don't care how many passes he drops, those that he catches down low are mostly easy buckets. Much nicer than the junk that TMac puts up from the perimeter.

Either way, Dallas wins the series...
 
twodogmac

twodogmac

G-League
#17
#17
Sheesh! What's up with Kings "Fans" dissing some of the best players in the WC?

Is this a fan forum or a dump on other players forum?

T-Mac, if you watched and listened to him, is a guy with Heart, Guts and Leadership. Are Kings "Fans" so blind as to not see what other teams have that we don't?

Where's the leadership on our team????? I would take one Tracy for 10 of our current "Kings".
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#18
#18
one tracy for ten kings???
thats a little ridiculous. we'd only have three people on the court. maybe pete caril could play pg.

id take a mcgrady for a stojakavic anyday.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#19
#19
For years I considered TMac a roughly equal talent to Kobe, but then in the last year or two in Orlando he really began to slip, in particular on defense, and his attitude was bad enough that when one former member here suggested picking him up for Webber (and others did so for Peja) I was kind of eh....

But this season has done absolute wonders for him and this playoff series he has stepped up in an absolutely huge way. Basically he looks like he's growing up in a way Kobe has yet to do, and it could be the birth, or rebirth, of a legit superstar now. Not only on offense, but that intentionally asking to guard Dirk in those opening games, and then shutting him down when he was on him, said bundles about how far he's come as a leader and a great player. In a series where Dirk, who looked to have taken that next step during the season, has kind of been exposed, TMac has just soared past him.

Numbers in the playoffs:
31.3pts (.469 FG% .410 3pt% .818 FT%) 7.5rebs 6.7ast 1.8stl 1.2blk

Reminiscient of a certain tongue wagging OG methinks.
 
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P

Pacboy

Bench
#20
#20
sloter said:
Hm... he dropped one pass which by the way he wasn't expecting to get since he wasn't getting anything from Tracy anyway... I don't care how many passes he drops, those that he catches down low are mostly easy buckets. Much nicer than the junk that TMac puts up from the perimeter.

Either way, Dallas wins the series...
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Junk? what game have you been watching. He's been a roll this series.
 
Gargamel

Gargamel

Starter
#21
#21
McGrady's year: played like one of the best wingmen in the league, finished the season with a nasty playoff choke.

Same old TMac to me.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
#23
Gargamel said:
McGrady's year: played like one of the best wingmen in the league, finished the season with a nasty playoff choke.

Same old TMac to me.
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Sorry, Tracy McGrady did NOT lose the Rockets this series.

They did however get exposed as a team. Same problems they had at the beginning of the season -- just too slow. No PG.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#25
#25
I have to think a good percentage of the blame will be heaped at the feet of Jeff Van Gundy... right or wrong. Remember: players win, coaches lose.
 
KA_2

KA_2

Bench
#26
#26
Tmac was always about on Kobe's level, in Orlando as well. He simply had to do too much in Orlando, which is why his D slipped and is why he rightfully pouted about it.

His performance this year and in these playoffs is absolutely no shocker to me. The only difference this year compared to his previous seasons in Orlando is that he finally has some players around him now (Yao, Mutumbo, James) and a good coach in JVG, whereas he mostly had garbage teammates and coaches with the Magic. Too bad Hill was injured, they would have been a great combo.

But I wouldn't call him better than Kobe, I'd say they're about equal, with a small edge going to Kobe due to his better individual defensive abilities and his proven track record deep in the postseason.
 
P

Pacboy

Bench
#27
#27
They were really hurt by the lack of a power forward. They had nobody to guard Nowitzki and be a threat offensively at the same time. Juwan Howard would have help.
 
tyrant

tyrant

Starter
#29
#29
i like mcgrady, but kobe is still better. kobe is a closer. he would of not made the same mistakes the t-mac made in games 3 and 4.
 
Padrino

Padrino

All-Star
#30
#30
tyrant said:
i like mcgrady, but kobe is still better. kobe is a closer. he would of not made the same mistakes the t-mac made in games 3 and 4.
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true, but he would have made his own mistakes, like shooting out of double and triple teams. i think t-mac is better. they both are pretty much a wash when it comes to talent. they both can shoot, they both can fly, and they both can take over games seemingly at will. however, kobe is an incredibly selfish player. he has become more selfish as the years have worn on. t-mac is the opposite. t-mac is maturing as a player, and becoming less selfish. he did try to single-handedly bring his team back in game 7 yesterday, but that was because everybody else had given up. i applaud his efforts at becoming a leader on the floor, and look forward to seeing him grow further as a player. if kobe continues to play as he did this past season, people will be saying "kobe who?" in a couple of years, and guys like lebron james and dwyane wade will fly right past him.
 
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