The Brad Miller Rumor?
- Thread starter ezekielbear
- Start date
Why are some acting like there is a set offer already out there, or that S-Jax/Foster is the rumor out there for Brad? That isn't the case at all.
There isn't anything but a rumor of Brad being shopped by the Kings and being wanted by Indiana.
http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=462218#post462218
There isn't anything but a rumor of Brad being shopped by the Kings and being wanted by Indiana.
http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=462218#post462218
Last edited:
Hmm, no. Ron and JO - don't mix for obvious reasons. 
This isn't meant to defend the actions of either player, but I don't see a problem teaming the two of them again. They are still great friends and played great together on the court.
In terms of patterns, Ron was crazy in Chicago (part of the reason they traded him as I recall) and in Indiana. JO did not create this in Ron, bring it out of him or act as an enabler for his behavior.
While I don't believe the trade proposal that triggered the post I'm responding to would ever happen, I would accept it in a heartbeat. I just see all of Ron's problems as being a product of Ron and not a result of JO's presence or influence.
If Brad was doing so poorly that we're willing to cut him loose considering the dearth of available big men around, the Pacers wouldn't want him.
And if Brad is doing good enough to actually command some trade interest, we'd be idiots to get rid of him...especially in any kind of across the board trade.
And this thread alone serves as an example of why TDOS has the "D" in it.
And if Brad is doing good enough to actually command some trade interest, we'd be idiots to get rid of him...especially in any kind of across the board trade.
And this thread alone serves as an example of why TDOS has the "D" in it.
Well, that's not going to be said by anyone in the organization obviously. Only outside media sources would talk about that.
This is what has been said:
http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=462218#post462218
This is what has been said:
http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=462218#post462218
"I've been hearing some rumblings lately that the Kings are looking to trade Brad Miller" is on a par with "both teams fought hard."
If he also mentioned Keith Van Horn and Samuel Dalembert, my semi-educated guess is he's using the shotgun theory...
I'm not saying Petrie wouldn't pull the trigger on the right deal if it came along, but I really don't see us trading Miller without having someone in line to fill his shoes.
If he also mentioned Keith Van Horn and Samuel Dalembert, my semi-educated guess is he's using the shotgun theory...
I'm not saying Petrie wouldn't pull the trigger on the right deal if it came along, but I really don't see us trading Miller without having someone in line to fill his shoes.
You know, just deciding to play along and looking at the Pacers current roster once again, and I just don't see a deal that makes sense 1 on 1. Would have to be a third team.
Foster makes sense as a piece, or maybe Harrison (although I have doubts they'd let him go + whether we could really rely on him as a starter type). But those guys don't approach Brad's salary. And the rest of the guys that Indiana has been rumored to be interested in moving, from Jackson to Tinsley to Jasikvecius, we don't need (nor in some cases want their issues). There's always the mega-Jermaine trade idea, but again because of Ron we could not take him back ourselves (although Minny might be able too.. ), and frankly I have no idea how Indiana could hope to replace Jermaine with a Brad Miller led package. Their interior defense would be gone, and all of their Jermaine replacements (Harrington, Granger) are 3/4 tweeners.
There is also this BTW: chances are Geoff is doing nothing, but there remains one other interesting approach (besides of course actually getting off one's *** and improving the team): salary liquidation. We have over $10 mil of enders coming off the books next year if we sit on our asses, and it in theory we could try to make moves to clear some of our long term anvils off for enders and have a whole new cap situation by next summer. ESPECIALLY if Bibby is going to opt out too. If he opts out, thats -$23mil from the books. If we were to unload Kenny and Brad for enders for instance, all of a sudden you could be talking...-$38 mil off the books and a remaining salary of about $25mil?? That might be tempting.
Foster makes sense as a piece, or maybe Harrison (although I have doubts they'd let him go + whether we could really rely on him as a starter type). But those guys don't approach Brad's salary. And the rest of the guys that Indiana has been rumored to be interested in moving, from Jackson to Tinsley to Jasikvecius, we don't need (nor in some cases want their issues). There's always the mega-Jermaine trade idea, but again because of Ron we could not take him back ourselves (although Minny might be able too..
), and frankly I have no idea how Indiana could hope to replace Jermaine with a Brad Miller led package. Their interior defense would be gone, and all of their Jermaine replacements (Harrington, Granger) are 3/4 tweeners.There is also this BTW: chances are Geoff is doing nothing, but there remains one other interesting approach (besides of course actually getting off one's *** and improving the team): salary liquidation. We have over $10 mil of enders coming off the books next year if we sit on our asses, and it in theory we could try to make moves to clear some of our long term anvils off for enders and have a whole new cap situation by next summer. ESPECIALLY if Bibby is going to opt out too. If he opts out, thats -$23mil from the books. If we were to unload Kenny and Brad for enders for instance, all of a sudden you could be talking...-$38 mil off the books and a remaining salary of about $25mil?? That might be tempting.
Last edited:
BTW, just continuing the thought/game, this is how you could go about rebuilding in a hurry (whetehr you would be any good at the end fo the process or not):
To Indiana:
Brad Miller
Keyon Dooling
To Sacramento:
Jameer Nelson
David Harrison
Grant Hill
To Orlando:
Mike Bibby
Stephen Jackson
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Approved on realgm.
If you could somehow dump KT in the process then you would really have something. But in any case, if you were going to rebuild with youth, that is how you would do it. Land a young center + a young PG to replace your largest contracts, and clear monster caproom next season (Corliss -$6.5mil, Potapenko -$3.7mil, Hart $1.7mil, Hill $16.9mil, Woods $1mil Price $0.7mil = $30.5mil total) to sign whatever free agents you wanted. Reemerge like a Phoenix after one down year.
Of course if it doesn't work, its a one way ticket to lotteryville.
You know, just deciding to play along and looking at the Pacers current roster once again, and I just don't see a deal that makes sense 1 on 1. Would have to be a third team.
Foster makes sense as a piece, or maybe Harrison (although I have doubts they'd let him go + whether we could really rely on him as a starter type). But those guys don't approach Brad's salary. And the rest of the guys that Indiana has been rumored to be interested in moving, from Jackson to Tinsley to Jasikvecius, we don't need (nor in some cases want their issues). There's always the mega-Jermaine trade idea, but again because of Ron we could not take him back ourselves (although Minny might be able too.. ), and frankly I have no idea how Indiana could hope to replace Jermaine with a Brad Miller led package. Their interior defense would be gone, and all of their Jermaine replacements (Harrington, Granger) are 3/4 tweeners.
There is also this BTW: chances are Geoff is doing nothing, but there remains one other interesting approach (besides of course actually getting off one's *** and improving the team): salary liquidation. We have over $10 mil of enders coming off the books next year if we sit on our asses, and it in theory we could try to make moves to clear some of our long term anvils off for enders and have a whole new cap situation by next summer. ESPECIALLY if Bibby is going to opt out too. If he opts out, thats -$23mil from the books. If we were to unload Kenny and Brad for enders for instance, all of a sudden you could be talking...-$38 mil off the books and a remaining salary of about $25mil?? That might be tempting.
Foster makes sense as a piece, or maybe Harrison (although I have doubts they'd let him go + whether we could really rely on him as a starter type). But those guys don't approach Brad's salary. And the rest of the guys that Indiana has been rumored to be interested in moving, from Jackson to Tinsley to Jasikvecius, we don't need (nor in some cases want their issues). There's always the mega-Jermaine trade idea, but again because of Ron we could not take him back ourselves (although Minny might be able too..
), and frankly I have no idea how Indiana could hope to replace Jermaine with a Brad Miller led package. Their interior defense would be gone, and all of their Jermaine replacements (Harrington, Granger) are 3/4 tweeners.There is also this BTW: chances are Geoff is doing nothing, but there remains one other interesting approach (besides of course actually getting off one's *** and improving the team): salary liquidation. We have over $10 mil of enders coming off the books next year if we sit on our asses, and it in theory we could try to make moves to clear some of our long term anvils off for enders and have a whole new cap situation by next summer. ESPECIALLY if Bibby is going to opt out too. If he opts out, thats -$23mil from the books. If we were to unload Kenny and Brad for enders for instance, all of a sudden you could be talking...-$38 mil off the books and a remaining salary of about $25mil?? That might be tempting.
The problem is that the Kings' biggest current problem is a lack of interior presence, and the two best young free agent bigs, Kaman and Darko (and it's very much debatable whether either of those guys are or ever will be better than Brad), are both restricted free agents and likely to be retained by their current teams. I don't think it makes sense to dump Brad unless there's a specific plan to get a high draft pick in next year's draft, because we're not going to be able to replace him with anyone in next year's free agent class. And Harrison isn't much to write home about.
I like the idea of dumping salary and signing free agents in theory, but in practice it almost never pays dividends.
PS: Actually, if you substituted Darko for Jameer Nelson and then went after Chauncey Billups in free agency I might be more inclined, but then Billups doesn't exactly fit the youth movement.
I like the idea of dumping salary and signing free agents in theory, but in practice it almost never pays dividends.
PS: Actually, if you substituted Darko for Jameer Nelson and then went after Chauncey Billups in free agency I might be more inclined, but then Billups doesn't exactly fit the youth movement.
Last edited:
No he doesn't. And of course he's overrated and has never done anything outside of that environment.
In any case, here's the simple factoid -- almost every truly great team that I can think of, including all of the current ones, the up and comers, and our old mini-dynasty itself, got bad for a year or two at the very least in order to build the foundation of getting good.
I say almost BTW, because its not 100% (think Portland, who lingered in mediocrity forever before finally piecing together an elite team -- bvut bottomless pockets helped there). But youth and caproom is the normal way you go about it. And of course part of that is nabbing a top draft pick. That's normally how you get Dirk or Wade or LeBron or Amare. But you have to culture mature and patient fans, and be smart. Its a doubleedged sword, like diving an airplane to pick up speed -- have to know when to pull out of it to return to ascent.
P.S. As an aside, people have to get over the Darko thing -- he's lost, and the Magic ain't getting rid of him. They took the chance, and now they get to savor the rewards. Which is ok because I have been persuaded by people on this board that we ourselves signed a 10 10 and 2 man in Loren Woods who has simply been cruelly oppressed throughout his career, so we're set.
In any case, here's the simple factoid -- almost every truly great team that I can think of, including all of the current ones, the up and comers, and our old mini-dynasty itself, got bad for a year or two at the very least in order to build the foundation of getting good.
I say almost BTW, because its not 100% (think Portland, who lingered in mediocrity forever before finally piecing together an elite team -- bvut bottomless pockets helped there). But youth and caproom is the normal way you go about it. And of course part of that is nabbing a top draft pick. That's normally how you get Dirk or Wade or LeBron or Amare. But you have to culture mature and patient fans, and be smart. Its a doubleedged sword, like diving an airplane to pick up speed -- have to know when to pull out of it to return to ascent.
P.S. As an aside, people have to get over the Darko thing -- he's lost, and the Magic ain't getting rid of him. They took the chance, and now they get to savor the rewards. Which is ok because I have been persuaded by people on this board that we ourselves signed a 10 10 and 2 man in Loren Woods who has simply been cruelly oppressed throughout his career, so we're set.
Last edited:
P.S. As an aside, people have to get over the Darko thing -- he's lost, and the Magic ain't getting rid of him. They took the chance, and now they get to savor the rewards. Which is ok because I have been persuaded by people on this board that we ourselves signed a 10 10 and 2 man in Loren Woods who has simply been cruelly oppressed throughout his career, so we're set.
Damn, you've been reading some pessimistic threads on Loren Woods, the ones I've read have him pegged as a 10-15-5 guy
I don't know about that. Miami, Dallas, Detroit, the dynasty Lakers... all those teams were kicking around as good-but-not-great before they made a change or two that propelled them into contention. These weren't teams that completely started over and got good all of a sudden, they were teams hanging around at 40-50 years for quite a long time before something (Miami = Wade/Riley, Dallas = new centers, Terry/Howard; Detroit = Sheed; Lakers = Phil Jackson) kicked them up a notch.
And actually, if you look at the reverse, the teams that took a decent team and started completely over at rock bottom you're looking at teams like Chicago, which has spent a decade floundering and is only starting to look vaguely promising.
There are plenty of instances of middling to great, but very, very few of terrible to great.
PS: Oops, I forgot Miami was pretty bad one year, hence Wade. But the others were decent for a while when they acquired their key pieces.
And actually, if you look at the reverse, the teams that took a decent team and started completely over at rock bottom you're looking at teams like Chicago, which has spent a decade floundering and is only starting to look vaguely promising.
There are plenty of instances of middling to great, but very, very few of terrible to great.
PS: Oops, I forgot Miami was pretty bad one year, hence Wade. But the others were decent for a while when they acquired their key pieces.
Last edited:
Well, I'm not sure we could get Iggy, but we could get Carney or Bobby Jones back. I'm definitely into getting Dalembert.
Doubt Philly does that specific deal, but I'd love it. I like Iguodala a lot.
Doesn't matter to me if we trade with Indy/Philly to get what is needed/improve the team. Any team, of course.
Doubt Philly does that specific deal, but I'd love it. I like Iguodala a lot.
Doesn't matter to me if we trade with Indy/Philly to get what is needed/improve the team. Any team, of course.
Last edited: