The Bibby & Artest Dilemma

[Gary]

Given money and minutes Beno will stay. Why would he not?

And Mike Bibby will still cost you as much as LeBron to keep around. Which is just a ridiculous waste of cap money for a team going nowhere.

How do we know Beno will stay? A lot of peopel want Bibby traded before the deadline. what guarantee do we have the Beno will sign, and what is he pulls a Bonzi on us? We offer 5 years, and 40 mil but Beno still goes elsewhere. Than we are stuck with having to draft a PG, and dredge the FA market for another gem. We were lucky enough to get Beno.

Personally I say we wait on trading Bibby at least until we know if we have to draft a PG to replace Bibby when his deal expires, or if we have Beno starting,and we can hold off drafting a PG for a year or two while we build our front line.

i had put this in another thread, but check out these options with Artest out of the mix, while keeping Bibby at least until the end of the season (and for the remainder of his contract if we cannot trade him)


Bibby/Beno/Martin in a small lineup
Beno/Garcia/Salmons in a defensive lineup
Bibby/Martin/Salmons in a normal lineup
Garcia/Martin/Salmons in a larger lineup

That's a damn good SG/PG/SF rotation.

 

[VF21]

Bonzi was certifiable. Beno, on the other hand, is very happy to be on a team that appreciates his efforts. I suspect we may make a binding offer of some kind to Beno to extend his services out past this season, especially since he's showing an ability to really play well in both a starting and supporting role.

 

[Gary]

I sure hope we sign him for a longer term deal after this year... I like Beno. That being said I believe he is a spot starter, and 6th man (at this point in his career). The knock that I have on Beno is turnovers. He does have a slight issue with shot selection sometimes, but it's not a big deal to me. He does hustle though, and nobody can question the mans heart.

One thought though... What the hell was Minnesota thinking?

 

[VF21]

I sure hope we sign him for a longer term deal after this year... I like Beno. That being said I believe he is a spot starter, and 6th man (at this point in his career). The knock that I have on Beno is turnovers. He does have a slight issue with shot selection sometimes, but it's not a big deal to me. He does hustle though, and nobody can question the mans heart.

One thought though... What the hell was Minnesota thinking?

Maybe Danny Ainge isn't the only person out there with compromising pictures of Kevin McHale?

 

[reid1boys]

I dont see the need to trade Bibby. We arent going to be able to just clear his contract for salary cap purposes since the salaries will need to be close. With Bibby and Beno we have the depth at PG that most teams would love to have. What wwe also have is balanced scoring. Beno, Martin, Bibby, Artest, and Miller can all score 20 on any night. I like that.


I would like to see Artest go. I just dont like the way he forces the action. The team doesnt move the ball with him in the game. He just makes up his mind he is going to the basket no matter who is in front of him. How many dumb turnovers did he have towards the end of the game last night?

That being said, he is cheap. Trade him for an expiring contract and god pick if you can. If not, keep him and let him walk at the end of the season if he chooses.


We must be able to keep Beno though. That is a kay.

IMO, keep Bibby, trade Artest, ONLY if it makes sense.

 

[FakeInjury]

I would also like to add it is very interesting, the small trickles of news, about this issue. Mostly I hear him talking about being a FA; him wanting to sign for the mid-level on a championship contending team, most likely of which the KNICKS, and lastly him fielding bets over this issue. After seeing a game or two, my final opinion on the subject is that if David Lee doesn't extend in NY...things look different in terms of DL availability. This always seems like the only solution to the Dilemma.

 

[Mitch_Richmond_2]

Best POSSIBLE Answer: Cleveland seems like the most likely trade partner here, unfortunately they don't have a lot that I like but perhaps some expirings and Drew Gooden could work. We get some cap relief this season and while I'm not a big Gooden fan he is a low post presence that can rebound which is what we need. He could be a good stopgap while we're waiting for our future PF.

This isn't a sexy deal by any means. But, it does give us a younger PF that can rebound the ball, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

We're not going to get a lot for Mike. Might as well get a player that you can plug in and play, perhaps get a pick or an expiring or two, and just be done with it.

The reason I'm in favor of adding Gooden is because I think he can play well in our system.. Since Cleveland stresses defense, and doesn't have a decent offense because they don't possess a PG or any other slashers besides LeBron, there's no ball or player movement in that team's offense.

It's all LeBron operating at the top of the key in high screen situations where LeBron drives and kicks or finishes.

Gooden isn't even an option there.. Not saying he would be an option here, but because of the floor spacing, PG play, ball and player movement of our offense, I think he's a player that could play well here.. Plus, like I said, he's cheap, with a very moveable contract in the future, and can rebound the ball at a nice clip..

Again, not an earth shattering deal, but it's not a terrible one either.

 

[FakeInjury]

Drew Gooden and Lebron James aside, Wouldn't you like to see Artest and Lee on the same team? How about Artest and Lee and Marbury go to cleveland...while lebron comes to sacramento, and Ill personally toss in five bucks...along with an array of draft picks starting today. Then again, giving artest to cleveland for nothing would do some, things. First, It would pee off every other team in the eastern conference. Second, it would call upon the firing of geoff petrie. Im against both.

 

[Jerichoholic]

Well, I think last night's game gives a clear example of this little dilemma we have upon us. Look, these pieces just do not fit and it's obvious to me based on the way they have been playing. Sure, you could tell me to watch the Detroit game, or the Indiana game, or even the New Jersey game to prove me wrong but I believe those games are deceiving, last night's game was more revealing. Those 3 wins were against teams that looked to me were having their worst games of the year, it was more them than us. They were ugly games except for the New Jersey game but they didn't really show up at all.

But win or lose here is what I'm seeing, we have gone from a run & gun, drive & dish, scrappy, defensive minded, high effort team to a ball hogging, slow tempo, no defense, no rebounding, 3 point barrage team. In fact I've seen this look before, it was last year headed by Mr. Musselman.

I want to see Beno push the ball, I want to see Kevin drive from the right angle, or Salmons drive from the left angle, or Garcia with the open 3 in the corner. I want to see guys taking charges, grabbing tough rebounds, and playing scrappy defense. Even Brad and Mikki seem to have lost their effort since these guys came back.

Look at Kevin and Salmons, Kevin looked great coming off the bench and Salmons look great starting, there were even threads started saying we should switch the two. But what else happened at the same time as Kevin started and Salmons hit the bench (minutes wise)...it was the return of our two "superstars".

 

[6th]

Well, I think last night's game gives a clear example of this little dilemma we have upon us. Look, these pieces just do not fit and it's obvious to me based on the way they have been playing. Sure, you could tell me to watch the Detroit game, or the Indiana game, or even the New Jersey game to prove me wrong but I believe those games are deceiving, last night's game was more revealing. Those 3 wins were against teams that looked to me were having their worst games of the year, it was more them than us. They were ugly games except for the New Jersey game but they didn't really show up at all.

But win or lose here is what I'm seeing, we have gone from a run & gun, drive & dish, scrappy, defensive minded, high effort team to a ball hogging, slow tempo, no defense, no rebounding, 3 point barrage team. In fact I've seen this look before, it was last year headed by Mr. Musselman.

I want to see Beno push the ball, I want to see Kevin drive from the right angle, or Salmons drive from the left angle, or Garcia with the open 3 in the corner. I want to see guys taking charges, grabbing tough rebounds, and playing scrappy defense. Even Brad and Mikki seem to have lost their effort since these guys came back.

Look at Kevin and Salmons, Kevin looked great coming off the bench and Salmons look great starting, there were even threads started saying we should switch the two. But what else happened at the same time as Kevin started and Salmons hit the bench (minutes wise)...it was the return of our two "superstars".

I absolutely agree with this idea. Unless both Bibby and Artest are moved, we can expect more of the same. Actually, I think getting rid of Artest is the real key. I believe that Bibby will come around to Reggie's plan, but Artest will never follow anyone's plan but his own. As long as he sees himself as good as Kobe and/or Lebron, he will listen to no one.

 

[VF21]

I absolutely agree with this idea. Unless both Bibby and Artest are moved, we can expect more of the same. Actually, I think getting rid of Artest is the real key. I believe that Bibby will come around to Reggie's plan, but Artest will never follow anyone's plan but his own. As long as he sees himself as good as Kobe and/or Lebron, he will listen to no one.

I tend to agree. I've seen effort and focus from Mike and he really looks like he wants to be the player Reggie needs him to be. Artest, on the other hand, wants Reggie to bend to meet Artest's needs and I just don't see it being productive.

If it was Artest, Douby and Williams being turned down for entry to a nightclub in LA late Tuesday night (as links to a clip on tmz.com show), then I am not a happy camper. Artest is showing too many flashes of the "old" Artest, the one who thinks the rules are for everyone and he is above all that kind of nonsense. That Ron Artest honestly scares the crap out of me.

 

[6th]

If it was Artest, Douby and Williams being turned down for entry to a nightclub in LA late Tuesday night (as links to a clip on tmz.com show), then I am not a happy camper. Artest is showing too many flashes of the "old" Artest, the one who thinks the rules are for everyone and he is above all that kind of nonsense. That Ron Artest honestly scares the crap out of me.

It is really bothering me as well. I do not like the, not so subtle, signs we are seeing from Artest of late. I have a strong feeling that the ticking in the time bomb is getting faster and faster.

 

[chelle]

It is really bothering me as well. I do not like the, not so subtle, signs we are seeing from Artest of late. I have a strong feeling that the ticking in the time bomb is getting faster and faster.

That is really scary. I do not think that this team can afford another implosion. I know that I HATE feeling like it is about to hit the fan.

 

[bloom]

I know a lot of people want to keep Mike and I know he’s trying, he seems like he wants to be here but we need to move on. He might be a plug for right now, but he’s not a going forward piece (at least to me).

Ron is really not a piece that we need past the deadline. I feel bad for saying this about these players but they’re not fitting (especially Ron). I feel bad for him. He sees himself as a better player than he is and that’s unfortunate for him cause if he’s ever going to win or stay on a team long enough, he’s got to get it in his head that he’s a good player or a really good player but he’s not an MJ, Kobe, or a Lebron. He’s not a superstar. The only thing he’s got in common with Kobe is the fact that he becomes selfish. And I don’t think he can ever except a number 2 role even with a number 1.

Anyway, neither players are forward pieces and I hope the management doesn’t look at a winning streak with Ron and decide to keep him or sign him to a longer contract (even though he really does seem like a nice guy)...I also hope that SAR can pack his bags and decide to retire cause he can’t do it (or it seems like it). He’s just not a winner and no matter how much he loves the game, from what I saw earlier this year, he doesn’t have it anymore or fit with this team.

VF - that was Ron, Douby and Williams outside the club. Hope they’re not past their curfew (do they even still have a curfew?).

 

[Bricklayer]

VF - that was Ron, Douby and Williams outside the club. Hope they’re not past their curfew (do they even still have a curfew?).

I know that the cell phone ban was quietly dropped -- another example of hardass Reggie learning to be flexible rather than inspiring revolt -- maybe the curfew went the same way. Or maybe they had promised mom they would be home by 11:00.

 

[Jerichoholic]

I agree as well that out of the two, Artest is the main culprit of problems. He wants things done his way, he shoots when he feels he deserves to take one, regardless of quality of shot. Also, his defensive and rebounding effort have even seemed to escape him. He seems bitter and playing with a sense of entitlement.

The timebomb does seem to be ticking faster and I think it is imperative the Kings move him before the deadline for that very reason. Forget about salary or acquiring new players or picks, he could explode at any time and take the team down with him, especially a team as delicate is the Kings right now.

Now Bibby may not be as immediate a problem as Artest but I feel he needs to go sooner than later as well. He just doesn't fit this team or really any other where he needs to be mainly a PG. He is more SG now than he ever has been, he is a poor defender, a poor penetrator, and doesn't push the tempo enough. Now with a team like Cleveland where LeBron plays PG half the time he may fit in better.

In Theus' system the PG should not be one of our main scorers, he needs to run the team, find the open guys, play good defense, and hit shots when open as a last resort. Martin, Salmons, Miller, and even Garcia can handle the main scoring duties for now.

 

[ForlornKing]

It's Bibby...

Cuz all Mike Bibby does is shoot threes. And then Ron sees this and starts to just jack of threes. Then Kevin does, then the whole team does.

A point guard that just shoots so many long bombs (even if hes good at it) is not good for the whole team.

 

[slugking50]

As piksi said" Whats the delimma?"

I say get rid of both.

Ideally, The best thing for this team is get rid of Bibby, Artest, Reef(Forget he was a King?), Thomas, and Brad. To actually rebuild this franchise. To start from scratch. keep Kev, Cisco, and Beno and ditch the rest.


To ACTUALLY rebuild for once....


But is just a dream ......

 

[Oscar]

Rebounding, shotblocking, will get worn down, wastes his best defensive skills (perimeter defense) and best offensive skills (he is a mismatch in the post against SFs, not PFs) and frankly Ron has said he does not want to do it.

He gets big bucks to play where Theus wants him to play. Where does he get off saying that he doesn't want to do it?

 

[kennadog]

If it was Artest, Douby and Williams being turned down for entry to a nightclub in LA late Tuesday night (as links to a clip on tmz.com show), then I am not a happy camper.

Which it was, so I'm not happy either. So much for a veteran presence setting a good example for the younger guys.

 

[FakeInjury]

Bibby is not just any NBA player. He carries more the sentimental value
Unless he is straight up & down deathly and detrimental to this team, I would not endorse a Bibbo trade. Look, if he wants to opt-out, it would be what he wants to do. And it would be. But, for example lets say he doesn't opt-out(crossing my fingers) On deck and in uniform is MIKE "********" Bibby. I dont think one can pay to have that any other place. I rest my case.

I say both leave when they want to.

 

[Oscar]

Bibby is not just any NBA player. He carries more the sentimental value
Unless he is straight up & down deathly and detrimental to this team, I would not endorse a Bibbo trade. Look, if he wants to opt-out, it would be what he wants to do. And it would be. But, for example lets say he doesn't opt-out(crossing my fingers) On deck and in uniform is MIKE "********" Bibby. I dont think one can pay to have that any other place. I rest my case.

I say both leave when they want to.

Everyone is expendable in the NBA, Fake - whether you choose to believe it or not.

 

[VF21]

After tonight's game, the only dilemma I see is the trouble Geoff Petrie is going to have getting ANYONE to talk about a trade if the name "Ron Artest" is mentioned.

 

[kennadog]

Please GP, trade Ron ASAP.

 

[fnordius]

After tonight's game, the only dilemma I see is the trouble Geoff Petrie is going to have getting ANYONE to talk about a trade if the name "Ron Artest" is mentioned.

Isiah: "Ron, all you have to do is to get T'ed up a lot. I'll take care of the rest, and we'll see you in July."

 

[Jerichoholic]

Everyone is expendable in the NBA, Fake - whether you choose to believe it or not.

Exactly, look...I appreciate all of the great things Bibby did for our Kings in the past but this is professional sports we're talking about, it is all about "what have you done for me lately?" Again I appreciate what he has done but at the same time I really don't give a damn because right now he is holding us back from our future, IMO.

Right now though we have a much bigger problem than Bibby. After tonight's Utah game it appears Artest is closer to the breaking point than we thought, he is 2 seconds away from an incident and it looks like the league is 1 second away from laying down a large punishment. One incident and his trade value drops to zero, let alone what he will do to the chemistry of our team.

Add on top of this that we can forget about getting a player of David Lee's caliber for Artest now that he has said he will be opting out of his contract officially. Why trade value for him when you can just sign him in the offseason. The only potential takers now will be contending teams that are a player away from the title.

Geez...the Kings seemed fun a couple weeks ago...

 

[BuenoBeno]

Ron needs to be traded BEDORE the trade deadline, I can't wait another 40 games for him to be gone.

 

[FakeInjury]

true, i believe hes better than me and you(actually i dont know this). and shaq on any given night

 

[BuenoBeno]

true, i believe hes better than me and you(actually i dont know this). and shaq on any given night

who are you talking about?

 

[Cal-Kings]

I'm ready to cut our losses and just tell Artest to take a hike after tonights exhibition. That was embarassing.