The Bibby & Artest Dilemma

[Jerichoholic]

Hello all, I've been wanting to write this thread for awhile and I figured that after last night's game this was the perfect time. This will piggyback VF21's thread a little but come from a different perspective. Note that this is not a reaction to last night's loss, we should expect to lose as such with so many dramatic changes taking place so quickly. So let's begin and take this one player at a time from a contractual and personnel prospective.


Mike Bibby:
Contractual Perspective: Bibby has the remainder of this season and next season left on his deal making approximately 14 million each year. There are 3 options here; trade him for all expiring contracts, trade him for some expiring contracts and some longer contracts, or to not trade him at all.

Obviously the best case scenario would be to trade him for all expiring this year, that way we open up a huge amount of cap space a year in advance. This is also the most difficult trade to make, Petrie will have to work some magic here. The other two options are about breakeven IMO, as trading him for some expiring contracts this year would open up some cap space early but it could also acquire some players whose contracts could extend beyond next season. Not trading him at all means we still only have one more season before we open the big cap space, which is tolerable. So in conclusion, Bibby's contract status is an issue but not the most serious problem.

Personnel Perspective: This is where I believe the biggest problem lies and here is why. Here we simply have 2 options, either to trade him or not to trade him.

If we trade him then Beno becomes our starter again, a guy whom I believe is a better fit for this style of play anyway. If we don't trade him but still have the intent to let him walk after next season then we are postponing the growth of this team for another year and a half. I would love to get 14 million off of the cap after next season but IMO the cost is too high. This team can't grow around Bibby (who doesn't fit well anyway) for next season and then have to get acclimated to a new PG after that. That would really mean two and a half years of postponing the future and that is not acceptable.

Best POSSIBLE Answer: Cleveland seems like the most likely trade partner here, unfortunately they don't have a lot that I like but perhaps some expirings and Drew Gooden could work. We get some cap relief this season and while I'm not a big Gooden fan he is a low post presence that can rebound which is what we need. He could be a good stopgap while we're waiting for our future PF.


Ron Artest:
Contractual Perspective: IMO he will leave after this season and even if he doesn't he still only makes about 8 million a year for one or two years which is less than he's worth. I don't believe moving him for expirings is really the issue here since he'll probably leave anyway, the issue is getting some future talent for him. The 2 options are to either trade him for players that can help us or let him walk and get some cap relief. Ron is a very talented player and some teams may actually appreciate the small amount of cap relief he will provide so he definitely has value. Overall Artest's situation doesn't present a contractual problem, but rather a contractual opportunity.

Personnel Perspective: Like with Bibby this is where the biggest problem is. Artest is an X Factor, he is a big time player who makes big plays especially late in games. He's the guy who makes the momentum changing steal, he grabs the big rebounds, and he's an offensive threat that that opens things up for our other players. Most important he is a low post threat that consistently draws double teams which is huge for the Kings style of play. I truly believe that the one thing the Kings need to get them back into the playoffs consistently is a low post presence, but NOT from the SF position.

The Kings have an abundance of swingmen who are game changers and they all need minutes for the team to succeed. Martin, Salmons, and Garcia are all good 3 point shooters, have strong mid range games, and are great penetrators. With those three the team will just about always have two of them playing at once and with a low post presence that draws double teams it will be near impossible to stop the Kings offense consistently. However with Artest, the low post presence clogs one of the swingman spots and we still have a weak PF on the court that provides limited contributions. In conclusion, Artest is a good player to have but not only does he not fit our style of play he actually interferes with it causing us to change styles which is not acceptable.

Best POSSIBLE Answer: If I'm Petire I don't hold out on having to move Kenny Thomas in this deal, if I can then great but don't depend on it. The most likely trade partner are the Knicks and I believe that Petrie should hold out for David Lee here, if we can't get him then let Artest walk after the season. To be honest I'm not sure David Lee is the answer as he really doesn't have much of a low post game right now but he does provide excellent rebounding, strong defense, and high energy which are all things the Kings need. Artest for Lee and a small expiring contract is good enough IMO.

To sum this all up, it's more important to simply get Bibby and Artest off of this team ASAP than worrying about the talent we get in return. To build a castle the foundation must be flat and clean before the building can begin. If boulders and ditches remain then even the strongest castle built on top will fall.

 

[LoungeLizard]

To sum this all up, it's more important to simply get Bibby and Artest off of this team ASAP than worrying about the talent we get in return. To build a castle the foundation must be flat and clean before the building can begin. If boulders and ditches remain then even the strongest castle built on top will fall.

I have to agree with your conclusion. When I was younger I was a big time baseball card collector. I would always show my dad how much my cards were worth using my Beckett magazine. My Dad would always tell me that "your cards are only worth what someone else is willing to give you for them." This was always inevetibaly true as the man at the card shop would only offer me 50% of what the magazine said in cash and 75% in trade. I think the same applies now to Bibby and Artest.

 

[Aragorn]

I quite agree with u.After watching the game agains toronto,I am fully convinced of that at least one of them will be traded before the deadline.And bibby seems more likely....

 

[piksi]

there isn't really a dilemma

 

[Jerichoholic]

there isn't really a dilemma

I wouldn't say the dilemma is as simple as to trade them or not to trade them. It seems us fans are mostly agreed that they should.

The dilemma lies with management and their feelings towards the players. I believe that Bibby and Artest are both very good players and I believe that management believes them to be as well. It's not a matter of straight up talent, it's a matter of fitting the pieces together and more importantly what management envisions the future to be.

As LoungeLizard pointed out in the baseball card example, it's perceived value versus real value. Perhaps management views them to be all-stars while the rest of the league views them as half that. If management decides to not make a move for that reason which I could see happening then we're in real trouble. Even if they're right I would take half value at this point, I'm not sure managment would...and that's the dilemma.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I would say the goal out of trading the collective Bibby and Artest is to get at least 1 first round pick, one good/decent prospect, and ridding ourselves of Thomas' contract while not taking back any longer contracts in return. If Petrie can accomplish that then he's the man.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I have to agree with your conclusion. When I was younger I was a big time baseball card collector. I would always show my dad how much my cards were worth using my Beckett magazine. My Dad would always tell me that "your cards are only worth what someone else is willing to give you for them." This was always inevetibaly true as the man at the card shop would only offer me 50% of what the magazine said in cash and 75% in trade. I think the same applies now to Bibby and Artest.

lol, my dad used to say the same thing.

 

[FakeInjury]

there isn't really a dilemma

I have to agree. Two extremely talented and decorated players making as much as one superstar is not a problem or dilemma. Trading Ron Artest IS securing something tangible for the future. I look foward to seeing him from today until the trading deadline, because his performance will speak louder than any Sacramento Bee quote. I am not letting myself be too concerned about Ron hitting the free agent market either. I don't think teams will reach out to meet the requisite MAX to pry him from Sacramento. Rashard Lewis was lucky, I dont think Ron is going to see that kind of treatment...

Bibbidy is untouchable, I would not be opposed to extending his current contract another two or three years. Trading the number 1 player will hurt ticket sales and I don't like the combination of sour arena negotiations and poor ticket sales, so Bibby is a must for this team.

All in all It would be my preference to keep both...because it is always possible to make a trade later.

 

[Jerichoholic]

I have to agree. Two extremely talented and decorated players making as much as one superstar is not a problem or dilemma. Trading Ron Artest IS securing something tangible for the future. I look foward to seeing him from today until the trading deadline, because his performance will speak louder than any Sacramento Bee quote. I am not letting myself be too concerned about Ron hitting the free agent market either. I don't think teams will reach out to meet the requisite MAX to pry him from Sacramento. Rashard Lewis was lucky, I dont think Ron is going to see that kind of treatment...

Bibbidy is untouchable, I would not be opposed to extending his current contract another two or three years. Trading the number 1 player will hurt ticket sales and I don't like the combination of sour arena negotiations and poor ticket sales, so Bibby is a must for this team.

All in all It would be my preference to keep both...because it is always possible to make a trade later.

With all due respect I think that is a very narrow way to look at things. Artest and Bibby are very good players but they are not great players, they are not superstars, they are not even all stars. There are good, but not good enough to build around and not good enough to let them slow down the growth of the other players of the team. If they were superstars this would be another story.

My point is that keeping them around is hurting the team in the long term and actually the short term as well right now. Martin, Salmons, Garcia, and Beno all need 30 plus minutes every night while it would be nice for Douby to get 10 to 15. With Bibby and Artest that won't happen and that is definitely a problem.

Oh, and from most fans I've talked to, getting rid of Bibby certainly won't hurt ticket sales, in fact it may actually help.

 

[kingsfan101]

Obviously the best case scenario would be to trade him for all expiring this year, that way we open up a huge amount of cap space a year in advance.

Actually, I don't think trading Bibby for expiring contracts would give us much cap space. According to the data on Hoops Hype (not sure of accuracy)
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/sacramento.htm

Our committed salary for next season is around 59M. This does not include Martin's extn, which I think is in the range of 11M.

If we are able to trade both Bibby and Ron for expirings (big if), we shave off around 23M, taking our salary to 47M (after adding Martin's 11M).

We shall also need to sign Beno, our own picks, and possibly Dahanty Jones and Justin. That shall take us around mid fifties, the salary cap for the current year.

So, we shall lose two of our best players for no assets, and no cap space. It might still be worthwhile doing it to free up minutes for other guys, but that's about it.

Now, if it helps us get some young prospect(s) and/or draft picks, that would make it worthwhile, and that is what management should aim for.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Bibby's contract really doesn't hurt any potential cap space we might have because there is no way we're gaining any meaningful cap space after this year. After next year? maybe if Petrie pulls some fancy moves, but considering it's Geoff probably not.

 

[FakeInjury]

My point is that keeping them around is hurting the team in the long term and actually the short term as well right now. Martin, Salmons, Garcia, and Beno all need 30 plus minutes every night while it would be nice for Douby to get 10 to 15. With Bibby and Artest that won't happen and that is definitely a problem.

Oh, and from most fans I've talked to, getting rid of Bibby certainly won't hurt ticket sales, in fact it may actually help.

Thanks for the kind words of due respect. Bibby and Artest are the first and second most decorated players on the roster. Both are veterans of NBA service. Starters. (makeshift) Captains. First and second most entertaining players(they draw crowds, and not just on the court). First point, Martin, Salmons, Garcia, and Beno do not need 30 minutes plus every night. I would like to point out that less playing time sometimes minimizes players' flaws. I can't argue with the fact that the Kings will not be in the position to use Bibbo for the last shot in a very important game, i.e. vs. the lakers in the playoffs. And now after that last sentence i can't argue at all. Props Jerry

 

[Jerichoholic]

Of course this is all in good fun, as fans all we can do is speculate, unfortunately. I agree with the fact that Bibby and Artest are our most decorated players, but that isn't always a good thing, sometimes that brings a feeling of entitlement.

But my main issue isn't even that these players are doing something wrong, it is that they just don't fit this team very well. This year has really reminded me of the first year the Maloofs were here, 1997 I believe. We had a fun team, a team full of energy, a team full of excitement. They weren't championship contenders yet but they were growing together and everyone was on the same page.

It seems to me that Theus is putting together a run and gun style of play and Bibby just doesn't like to push the ball and Artest holds onto the ball too long and gets greedy at times. These tendencies are disasterous to a team that needs to run to be successful.

As far as the salary cap goes the Kings just need to position themselves right for when money opens up. It is a good thing to stay near the cap level so when the year comes that Miller, Thomas, Shareef, and Moore come off of it will open a tremendous amount of money to use on a free agent. A top tier free agent needs three things to come here; he needs to see that this is a young team that can win, he needs to be assured he'll get plenty of shots and minutes, and of course MONEY! Keeping Bibby and Artest around can jeopardize all three.

 

[kingsfan101]

It is a good thing to stay near the cap level so when the year comes that Miller, Thomas, Shareef, and Moore come off of it will open a tremendous amount of money to use on a free agent. A top tier free agent needs three things to come here; he needs to see that this is a young team that can win, he needs to be assured he'll get plenty of shots and minutes, and of course MONEY! Keeping Bibby and Artest around can jeopardize all three.

Yes, and unless we can get rid of one or more of these contracts to a shorter/expiring contract, we won't have cap space in 2009. We shall have it in 2010, and so far at least, Petrie has shown that he is aiming for that.

Also, we are not getting a top tier FA then either. Top tier FAs just don't become available. Teams lock them up long term. In the rare event that they want out, teams shall look for trades. In the extremely rare scenario, where player becomes a FA (e.g. Kobe), they shall either resign with their team, or look for a S&T.

Also, a top tier FA will often look for a bigger market. Our only real hopes of getting one are via the draft. Other option could be that next year, we trade away some of our large expiring contracts, some young star and/or draft picks to pry away a tier 1 superstar.

We could still get a 2nd level star with cap space. Teams with space, often end up overpaying for mediocre players (Ben Wallace, Rashard Lewis) though, and repent later. A better approach would be to use the expirings for trades.

Other option could be to use the cap space to provide relief to teams over the LT limit, and/or facilitate trades, and get some draft picks in the process (like Sonics did with Suns by picking Kurt Thomas). The latter approach has a longer gestation period though.

 

[CruzDude]

Great thread!!! And about as controversial as any that have ever been on the site. Everyone posting so far is more right than wrong. But what a complex maze it is with so many independent variables. Trading bot RonRon and Bibbs may be a tad difficult at $8.4 and $12 million respectively.

First, there are no similar salaried players out there that breed a 1-for-1 trade. Almost certain it will be 3 or 4 players coming in and only 1-2 going out. There has to be a starting PF in the mix coming in IMHO. There needs to be a good backup PG for a Bibby trade.

But as pointed out earlier in this thread, RonRon, while a low post banger, rebounder and scorer, it seems he, as a SF gets in the way of the slashers playing the 1 or 2, aka Cisco, Kevin, Salmons and even Beno. However, a SF who is a defender and a shooter compliments the slashing group far more. You want your 4 and 5 down low (but with our dear Brad that doesn't happen enough in the high post offense, another conundrum).

So my view is any trading has to complement the remaining core adn not impact it. If we trade RonRon, then Salmons becomes our 3 and Kevin our 2 and an incoming player becomes a key cog in the New Bench Mob alongside of Cisco, Douby, and company.

And if we trade Bibby, with or without RonRon being traded, we need a backup PG who can push Beno and bring some defense and score over a wide range.

 

[Troy]

I just don't understand why GP picked Douby a short SG who he is trying to convert into a combo guard. Why not draft a good prospect pure PG like Rodriguez or Rondo which come to mind to develop. Then along with the signing of Beno who I liked when what I saw from him at SA...we have a core PG group and makes moving Bibby easier in the fact that we know we'd have a decent core after he left. Right now we have such a over abundance of tweeners, including big bad 6' 7" PF K9 riding the bench.

From what I see of Salmons, and know what energy Cisco brings off the bench I wouldn't mind a Beno/KMart/Salmons/Moore/Miller starting lineup. Sure it isn't ideal, I really would hope we'd get a decent PF like Lee for Artest and some utility for Bibby.

GP do your magic, man do we need it now!!! (Tweener SF bottleneck & crappy old PF bottleneck)

 

[Glenn]

As far as the salary cap goes the Kings just need to position themselves right for when money opens up. It is a good thing to stay near the cap level so when the year comes that Miller, Thomas, Shareef, and Moore come off of it will open a tremendous amount of money to use on a free agent. A top tier free agent needs three things to come here; he needs to see that this is a young team that can win, he needs to be assured he'll get plenty of shots and minutes, and of course MONEY! Keeping Bibby and Artest around can jeopardize all three.

This is simple. Let the contracts of Artest and Bibby run out. The problem with the loss of Bibby and getting nothing in return is that the team will be awful and hardly attractive to a free agent. I disagree that a great free agent is looking for a young team that can win. He is simply looking for a team that can win NOW and rarely is that a young and inexperienced team.

Trade Bibby and get a power forward. I definitely wouldn't hang my hat on getting a free agent or two by letting his contract lapse. Bibby is our biggest asset to moving forward and it might even involve keeping him as I'm not convinced that seeing him in three games shows us his full potential under Coach Theus. Let him settle in after 9 months off.

Then as to free agents, a couple weeks ago I checked to see what free agents would be free in the summer of 2010 and there are not many, Most teams lock down their studs with long term contracts and if the contract is up, they still have the ability to resign their own free agents to longer and more lucrative contracts.

In short, destroying the team in order to have oodles of money for free agents is like going to Las Vegas thinking you will get rich.

 

[Geoff]

Hello all, I've been wanting to write this thread for awhile and I figured that after last night's game this was the perfect time. This will piggyback VF21's thread a little but come from a different perspective. Note that this is not a reaction to last night's loss, we should expect to lose as such with so many dramatic changes taking place so quickly. So let's begin and take this one player at a time from a contractual and personnel prospective.


Mike Bibby:
Contractual Perspective: Bibby has the remainder of this season and next season left on his deal making approximately 14 million each year. There are 3 options here; trade him for all expiring contracts, trade him for some expiring contracts and some longer contracts, or to not trade him at all.

Obviously the best case scenario would be to trade him for all expiring this year, that way we open up a huge amount of cap space a year in advance. This is also the most difficult trade to make, Petrie will have to work some magic here. The other two options are about breakeven IMO, as trading him for some expiring contracts this year would open up some cap space early but it could also acquire some players whose contracts could extend beyond next season. Not trading him at all means we still only have one more season before we open the big cap space, which is tolerable. So in conclusion, Bibby's contract status is an issue but not the most serious problem.

Personnel Perspective: This is where I believe the biggest problem lies and here is why. Here we simply have 2 options, either to trade him or not to trade him.

If we trade him then Beno becomes our starter again, a guy whom I believe is a better fit for this style of play anyway. If we don't trade him but still have the intent to let him walk after next season then we are postponing the growth of this team for another year and a half. I would love to get 14 million off of the cap after next season but IMO the cost is too high. This team can't grow around Bibby (who doesn't fit well anyway) for next season and then have to get acclimated to a new PG after that. That would really mean two and a half years of postponing the future and that is not acceptable.

Best POSSIBLE Answer: Cleveland seems like the most likely trade partner here, unfortunately they don't have a lot that I like but perhaps some expirings and Drew Gooden could work. We get some cap relief this season and while I'm not a big Gooden fan he is a low post presence that can rebound which is what we need. He could be a good stopgap while we're waiting for our future PF.


Ron Artest:
Contractual Perspective: IMO he will leave after this season and even if he doesn't he still only makes about 8 million a year for one or two years which is less than he's worth. I don't believe moving him for expirings is really the issue here since he'll probably leave anyway, the issue is getting some future talent for him. The 2 options are to either trade him for players that can help us or let him walk and get some cap relief. Ron is a very talented player and some teams may actually appreciate the small amount of cap relief he will provide so he definitely has value. Overall Artest's situation doesn't present a contractual problem, but rather a contractual opportunity.

Personnel Perspective: Like with Bibby this is where the biggest problem is. Artest is an X Factor, he is a big time player who makes big plays especially late in games. He's the guy who makes the momentum changing steal, he grabs the big rebounds, and he's an offensive threat that that opens things up for our other players. Most important he is a low post threat that consistently draws double teams which is huge for the Kings style of play. I truly believe that the one thing the Kings need to get them back into the playoffs consistently is a low post presence, but NOT from the SF position.

The Kings have an abundance of swingmen who are game changers and they all need minutes for the team to succeed. Martin, Salmons, and Garcia are all good 3 point shooters, have strong mid range games, and are great penetrators. With those three the team will just about always have two of them playing at once and with a low post presence that draws double teams it will be near impossible to stop the Kings offense consistently. However with Artest, the low post presence clogs one of the swingman spots and we still have a weak PF on the court that provides limited contributions. In conclusion, Artest is a good player to have but not only does he not fit our style of play he actually interferes with it causing us to change styles which is not acceptable.

Best POSSIBLE Answer: If I'm Petire I don't hold out on having to move Kenny Thomas in this deal, if I can then great but don't depend on it. The most likely trade partner are the Knicks and I believe that Petrie should hold out for David Lee here, if we can't get him then let Artest walk after the season. To be honest I'm not sure David Lee is the answer as he really doesn't have much of a low post game right now but he does provide excellent rebounding, strong defense, and high energy which are all things the Kings need. Artest for Lee and a small expiring contract is good enough IMO.

To sum this all up, it's more important to simply get Bibby and Artest off of this team ASAP than worrying about the talent we get in return. To build a castle the foundation must be flat and clean before the building can begin. If boulders and ditches remain then even the strongest castle built on top will fall.

Is there a reason why Ron can't play in the PF position?

 

[uolj]

Rebounding?

 

[Bricklayer]

Is there a reason why Ron can't play in the PF position?

Rebounding, shotblocking, will get worn down, wastes his best defensive skills (perimeter defense) and best offensive skills (he is a mismatch in the post against SFs, not PFs) and frankly Ron has said he does not want to do it.

 

[Jerichoholic]

This is simple. Let the contracts of Artest and Bibby run out. The problem with the loss of Bibby and getting nothing in return is that the team will be awful and hardly attractive to a free agent. I disagree that a great free agent is looking for a young team that can win. He is simply looking for a team that can win NOW and rarely is that a young and inexperienced team.

Trade Bibby and get a power forward. I definitely wouldn't hang my hat on getting a free agent or two by letting his contract lapse. Bibby is our biggest asset to moving forward and it might even involve keeping him as I'm not convinced that seeing him in three games shows us his full potential under Coach Theus. Let him settle in after 9 months off.

Then as to free agents, a couple weeks ago I checked to see what free agents would be free in the summer of 2010 and there are not many, Most teams lock down their studs with long term contracts and if the contract is up, they still have the ability to resign their own free agents to longer and more lucrative contracts.

In short, destroying the team in order to have oodles of money for free agents is like going to Las Vegas thinking you will get rich.

My point has less to do with just accumulating money for free agents than it does with making sure this team is built correctly and grows together in the correct way. If we just let Bibby walk after next season then this team will grow around him this season and next season and then we will have to get a new PG to grow around when he leaves. It really takes about a season for a team and its PG to be in perfect synch.

Also, when I said free agents want to join young growing teams, I meant at the time that the team has grown and is already showing an ability to win. I'm hoping the Kings can be in that position when that money opens up.

 

[Gary]

Someone answer me this...

If the Kings were to trade Bibby before knowing if we were able to sign Beno than how could that benefit the Kings? If we lose Bibby to a trade, and Beno via FA we are back to having no PG which we all know how that went in the first 5 or so games.

seems everyone wants to trade Bibby and Artest, but none of the trades (except mine heheh j/k) have a PG coming back in return. Even if we were to use our pick, we would still be very thin at that spot because we all know draft picks don't always work out, especially if they are in the range of 10-14.

 

[Glenn]

My point has less to do with just accumulating money for free agents than it does with making sure this team is built correctly and grows together in the correct way. If we just let Bibby walk after next season then this team will grow around him this season and next season and then we will have to get a new PG to grow around when he leaves. It really takes about a season for a team and its PG to be in perfect synch.

Also, when I said free agents want to join young growing teams, I meant at the time that the team has grown and is already showing an ability to win. I'm hoping the Kings can be in that position when that money opens up.

I am not convinced that getting rid of Bibby is a wise move. We don't know that Udrih or Jones will stay. Trade Bibby this year and lose Udrih and Jones next year and what do we have? Bibby has played three games under Theus and I am not ready to throw him under the bus after three games. Unless he is rock hard stupid, he can adjust to the Theus method.

We have a team filled with young and developing players right now.





Oooops! I see Gary addressed this.

 

[Bricklayer]

I am not convinced that getting rid of Bibby is a wise move. We don't know that Udrih or Jones will stay. Bibby has played three games under Theus and I am not ready to throw him under the bus after three games. Unless he is rock hard stupid, he can adjust to the Theus method.






Oooops! I see Gary addressed this.

Given money and minutes Beno will stay. Why would he not?

And Mike Bibby will still cost you as much as LeBron to keep around. Which is just a ridiculous waste of cap money for a team going nowhere.

 

[VF21]

Given money and minutes Beno will stay. Why would he not?

And Mike Bibby will still cost you as much as LeBron to keep around. Which is just a ridiculous waste of cap money for a team going nowhere.

And that's the part that makes it so difficult. Keeping Mike at this point (for the amount of money he will want) just isn't sound from a financial point of view. That's why, IMHO, his situation and Artest's are different.

 

[Glenn]

Given money and minutes Beno will stay. Why would he not?

And Mike Bibby will still cost you as much as LeBron to keep around. Which is just a ridiculous waste of cap money for a team going nowhere.

The kings can't offer Beno anything more than most other teams so he can pick and chose. I agree that he probably won't leave but I'd like his name on a contract to be sure. Maybe he has a girl friend in Philadelphia and would like to play there.

The only difference in what you are thinking and what I am thinking is when Bibby should be traded. You want him gone by the trade deadline (if not, this discussion has no meaning whatsoever) and I am saying wait until the summer when we have the point guard situation solidified. If you actually mean let Bibby's contract run out to clear space, that's a couple summers from now and makes this discussion even the more ridiculous.

There is no hurry. Trading Bibby does not relieve cap space as we need to take back roughly the same amount in salary because we are over the cap.

 

[VF21]

Bibby can walk at the end of this season if he chooses to, I believe. His contract had a 2-year ETO.

 

[Glenn]

Bibby can walk at the end of this season if he chooses to, I believe. His contract had a 2-year ETO.

I understand. Do you think he will?

 

[VF21]

I honestly don't know. He's said he would like to stay with the Kings, but every player who has said that has ended up being traded. I don't know what Geoff Petrie has told him - if anything - about an extension and I have no idea if one will even be forthcoming.

It's a BIG question mark with Mike, both because of how players have been dealt with in the past and because of the timing of his contract. You can't blame him for wanting a contract that will last the rest of his career but you also can't blame the Kings for not wanting to tie up a considerable chunk of change a la Webber.

It's truly a puzzle at this point in time. Of course, he could end up being traded before the deadline - and that would make everything else moot as far as we're concerned. I have to believe Petrie is receiving some kind of interest from other GMs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bibby leave but we just never know. I was totally blindsided by the Webber deal...

 

[Kingzrool]

Great Thread.

I agree that Bibby needs to go not because of cap space, but because of his negative influence on and theft of PT from the youth. Udrih will stay if Bibby is traded, period.

Hold up! Did I see someone write that Bibby was the #1 player? Please. I recently lost a debate that he was the third best player.

#1 Ron
#2 Kevin
#3 John

I agree with the OP regarding most likely trade scenarios. Ron should not go to NY without Lee or KT being part of the deal. I am all over Bibby for Gooden + expirings.

GP is trying, here is a deal for Ron to NY without Lee or KT involved.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/50367/20080118/knicks_turn_down_artest_deal/

In fact, ESPN reported Thomas turned down a chance at Ron Artest, because he didn't want to give up Nate Robinson and Renaldo Balkman in a package.

Naturally, the Knicks are banking Artest will opt out after the season and sign with the Knicks for the maximum five-year, $30 million mid-level contract. The same one they used for Jared Jeffries and Jerome James. Artest told The Post earlier this month the Knicks are on his radar, and he wouldn't mind being traded now.

Kind of hard to get anything of value when they think he will opt out and come running anyhow.

GP could go several different directions, or nowhere. It will very, very interesting to find out. I am certain that it all depends on which options open up. If nothing happens, it will not because Geoff did not try, but because, he will not take a crappy deal.