The 2015 Philly trade - the worst trade in NBA history iirc
- Thread starter John Galt
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The level of hysteria on this one was utterly ridiculous. There were scenarios where it could have turned out really badly, but they didn't occur. So, in the end, it wasn't very significant. It wasn't the worst trade in NBA history, that was a reflection of the level of hysteria at the time. So now we're hearing 'it was STILL the the worst trade in NBA history, despite the fact that nothing bad actually happened'. Haven't seen a single 'maybe I overreacted' in this thread, which would be much more appropriate.
I jumped on the Kings bandwagon months before the 2017 draft and I'm a huge draft junkie, but when I started to really dig into what I thought the ramifications of this trade would be, I became significantly less concerned about it. In a way that pick is like a mulligan, and Kings fans have been battered and bruised into low expectations so the loss of a potentially big mulligan is unsettling. The loss of that pick doesn't really affect their flexibility all that much though... This team is primed to strike using all sorts of other resources..
In the event the Kings hit a homerun with one of the 3 2nd rd picks this year the loss from that trade would be completely moot...
This is probably not the strongest draft either, and the Kings could've been aware of this years ahead of time, I had this feeling a while back.... '17 and '18 will prove to be better, and then '20, '21 look extremely strong at this point..
We aren't out of the woods just yet... as with all moves in the NBA the risk of injury looms..
Watching the Celtics and their fans flounder about after talking so much crap about their team and assets on paper is hilarious though, they were conviced this offseason the kings were gonna serve them a top pick on a silver platter..
In the event the Kings hit a homerun with one of the 3 2nd rd picks this year the loss from that trade would be completely moot...
This is probably not the strongest draft either, and the Kings could've been aware of this years ahead of time, I had this feeling a while back.... '17 and '18 will prove to be better, and then '20, '21 look extremely strong at this point..
We aren't out of the woods just yet... as with all moves in the NBA the risk of injury looms..
Watching the Celtics and their fans flounder about after talking so much crap about their team and assets on paper is hilarious though, they were conviced this offseason the kings were gonna serve them a top pick on a silver platter..
Since it seems that anything positive under Vlades watch is attributed to “luck,” can we say that the moves that didn’t work out were simply “unlucky?” 
If there was ever a post I've seen on this forum that deserves it's own thread it's this one but It'd get ugly in there.. lol
What is scouting? at it's core? It's not based in luck, i'll tell ya that. It's about the opposite of luck tbh..
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I think this is probably a generous musing on your part. Had the team made this type of trade now, with the current front office competency, perhaps they might have enough foresight on draft classes; however, really hard to imagine at the time of the trade. I understand Vlade’s objective at the time, and I don’t disagree. They needed to do whatever possible to move a cousins led team forward to (1) convince DMC that he should resign in sac and (2) figure out if a competitive team could be built around him so they could decide if he was worth the max contract. It was a swing at changing the culture fast to be on the same timeline as the critical DMC decisions. However, with all that said, I think if the current front office was in place at the time, there is no way they agree to the trade as it was acually constituted. Either the swap or the pick would have to come out of the deal to be on par with market value at the time for dumping bad contracts.
Vlade said he would have drafted fox if he had #1 so he would have at #3
But, had their not been a pick swap, there is a really good chance that we may have would up with Fultz or Ball.
If Boston would had stayed at #1, they take Tatum. Lakers seemed enamored with Lonzo Ball at #2. If Fultz was sitting there at #3, there is a really good chance the Kings may have been tempted to take him.
I'm not saying we would have, but could you imagine back then, if we got Fultz at #3, everyone would be saying we got the steal of the draft.
Well, thank goodness for that pick swap, because we picked comfortably at #5 and got the best player in the draft!
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IDK mang, I kind of feel its insulting that people don't wanna admit Vlade had his ducks in a row... the dust has settled, it's pretty clear his vision is coming to fruition..
When you look at the team and the salaries/restricted contracts on paper, that is the showstopper in this conversation really.... what is the draft all about? it's about getting the lesser fortunate teams a fair shot to get a bunch of stuff THE KINGS ALREADY HAVE..... There's a glut of young bigs, the franchise PG, 2 excellent young wings... If the Kings landed the top pick in this draft it's a Joe Johnson on the Suns type of situation there's absolutely no way they could afford to keep all these players here...
Vlade put his eggs in one basket. he counted his chickens before they hatched, and he's gonna be right........ thats how it went down... the loss of the 2019 pick is a small thing to a giant. I like his style too, Vlade doesn't make half-hearted moves.
When you look at the team and the salaries/restricted contracts on paper, that is the showstopper in this conversation really.... what is the draft all about? it's about getting the lesser fortunate teams a fair shot to get a bunch of stuff THE KINGS ALREADY HAVE..... There's a glut of young bigs, the franchise PG, 2 excellent young wings... If the Kings landed the top pick in this draft it's a Joe Johnson on the Suns type of situation there's absolutely no way they could afford to keep all these players here...
Vlade put his eggs in one basket. he counted his chickens before they hatched, and he's gonna be right........ thats how it went down... the loss of the 2019 pick is a small thing to a giant. I like his style too, Vlade doesn't make half-hearted moves.
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From the ESPN win total / Vegas betting thread:
"I agree that the data coupled with reasonable assumptions shows that our win total will be around what ESPN predicted. However, I think those reasonable assumptions will not hold. the most likely thing will not happen. we will be an outlier in the amount of improvement we show. we will crush it next year and I need to place my bets accordingly.."
Tooting one's own horn aside, the point I wanted to make in this tread has already been made eloquently by several other posters:
Vlade's moves are judged as horrible, but a series of such horrible moves produced the first playoff contender we had in a decade.
So instead of allowing for the possibility that their own analysis of the moves and the ramifications of such moves COULD possibly have been wrong, a lot of posters attribute the result to luck. And not just any luck, since these moves were so bad and horrible, the luck involved needs to be lottery level luck!
Just as I see it as ok to question the results oriented posters, I think the judge-moves-on-their-own-merit posters should show more reflection and humbleness in assessing their own opinions given the results that have been produced, and not be too quick to dismiss these results as pure luck.
"I agree that the data coupled with reasonable assumptions shows that our win total will be around what ESPN predicted. However, I think those reasonable assumptions will not hold. the most likely thing will not happen. we will be an outlier in the amount of improvement we show. we will crush it next year and I need to place my bets accordingly.."
Tooting one's own horn aside
, the point I wanted to make in this tread has already been made eloquently by several other posters: Vlade's moves are judged as horrible, but a series of such horrible moves produced the first playoff contender we had in a decade.
So instead of allowing for the possibility that their own analysis of the moves and the ramifications of such moves COULD possibly have been wrong, a lot of posters attribute the result to luck. And not just any luck, since these moves were so bad and horrible, the luck involved needs to be lottery level luck!
Just as I see it as ok to question the results oriented posters, I think the judge-moves-on-their-own-merit posters should show more reflection and humbleness in assessing their own opinions given the results that have been produced, and not be too quick to dismiss these results as pure luck.
All the trade really proves is how much that luck and timing are a part of building a team. It also shows that hitting a homerun (Fox) on one high draft picks really accelerates the rest of the dominoes falling into place. Hitting that homerun also really covers up any of your mistakes.
There were some good parts and bad parts to this trade. In the end it all worked out well for the Kings because of mostly luck. The 76ers swapping picks ended in disaster for them because they took Fultz (after they leveraged and traded up with Boston) but in principal the pick swap was still a great part of the trade on their part. The 76ers just massively screwed up the execution of the actual draft pick.
Fox being there at 5 and the Kings drafting Fox at 5 is really what set all of this in motion for having a good team right now.
There were some good parts and bad parts to this trade. In the end it all worked out well for the Kings because of mostly luck. The 76ers swapping picks ended in disaster for them because they took Fultz (after they leveraged and traded up with Boston) but in principal the pick swap was still a great part of the trade on their part. The 76ers just massively screwed up the execution of the actual draft pick.
Fox being there at 5 and the Kings drafting Fox at 5 is really what set all of this in motion for having a good team right now.
It's not even in the top 20 of worst trades of all time and not even in the Kings top 5.
Eddie Johnson for Ed Pickeny
Omri for JJ Hickson and protected pick was 10x worse for hampering our trading.
Larry Drew, mike woodson and a #1, a 2nd round pick for Derick Smith, Junior bridgeman and franklin edwards.
Heck the IT trade was worse.
Trading the #7 for Salmons and drafing Jimmer, passing on Thompson or Kawhi! This maybe #1
Eddie Johnson for Ed Pickeny
Omri for JJ Hickson and protected pick was 10x worse for hampering our trading.
Larry Drew, mike woodson and a #1, a 2nd round pick for Derick Smith, Junior bridgeman and franklin edwards.
Heck the IT trade was worse.
Trading the #7 for Salmons and drafing Jimmer, passing on Thompson or Kawhi! This maybe #1
That's what all the GMs would say about their pick.
But, had their not been a pick swap, there is a really good chance that we may have would up with Fultz or Ball.
If Boston would had stayed at #1, they take Tatum. Lakers seemed enamored with Lonzo Ball at #2. If Fultz was sitting there at #3, there is a really good chance the Kings may have been tempted to take him.
I'm not saying we would have, but could you imagine back then, if we got Fultz at #3, everyone would be saying we got the steal of the draft.
Well, thank goodness for that pick swap, because we picked comfortably at #5 and got the best player in the draft!
But, had their not been a pick swap, there is a really good chance that we may have would up with Fultz or Ball.
If Boston would had stayed at #1, they take Tatum. Lakers seemed enamored with Lonzo Ball at #2. If Fultz was sitting there at #3, there is a really good chance the Kings may have been tempted to take him.
I'm not saying we would have, but could you imagine back then, if we got Fultz at #3, everyone would be saying we got the steal of the draft.
Well, thank goodness for that pick swap, because we picked comfortably at #5 and got the best player in the draft!
BTW just wondering. Do u think it was a good trade or just playing Devils advocate?
The trade was absolutely horrible. Vlade got extremely lucky in a number of situations, to get out of what could have been a disaster for the organization.
However, fortune favors the bold. This is how Vlade operates. He's strong in his conviction. If in the end Vlade fulfills his mission, how can I argue with the path he took?
However, fortune favors the bold. This is how Vlade operates. He's strong in his conviction. If in the end Vlade fulfills his mission, how can I argue with the path he took?
Rated higher by whom? I know you of all people are fully aware that not all GM's draft boards are the same -- and certainly not the same as amateur online draft sites. Look no further than Bagley over Dončić this past draft. Luka was rated higher at the time by many too. But obviously not by the Kings front office.
Secondly, what real justification do you have not to take Vlade by his word? You believing that many GM's 'say that' about their players isn't very concrete.
Vlade has made suspect moves and I certainly understand the criticism there, but what have you ever seen from him as a player or front office exec that seriously makes you believe he's a liar too? Shouldn't he get the benefit of the doubt regarding his sincerity, if nothing else?
The Kings obviously had the #2 pick this draft. But suppose they had #5 again and were able to land Bagley with it. We now know to a certainty he would have been their pick at #2 too. I have little doubt that the same is true of De'Aaron Fox had the Kings been at #3 in that draft.
Secondly, what real justification do you have not to take Vlade by his word? You believing that many GM's 'say that' about their players isn't very concrete.
Vlade has made suspect moves and I certainly understand the criticism there, but what have you ever seen from him as a player or front office exec that seriously makes you believe he's a liar too? Shouldn't he get the benefit of the doubt regarding his sincerity, if nothing else?
The Kings obviously had the #2 pick this draft. But suppose they had #5 again and were able to land Bagley with it. We now know to a certainty he would have been their pick at #2 too. I have little doubt that the same is true of De'Aaron Fox had the Kings been at #3 in that draft.
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That’s not how destiny works...Fox was always coming here.
Also, just a reminder...when Vlade made this trade it was to ascertain whether or not Cousins, who represented a value of at least two first round picks, was worth the max. As it turned out, he was not and we got two top-10 picks in return...Buddy + #10.
Also, just a reminder...when Vlade made this trade it was to ascertain whether or not Cousins, who represented a value of at least two first round picks, was worth the max. As it turned out, he was not and we got two top-10 picks in return...Buddy + #10.
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I don't think it was a good trade, BUT at that point, we had an all-world Center in DMC in his prime and no cap space to do anything in free agency. We also had a looming DMC free agency that we needed to address in a couple of short summers.
So, Vlade had his hands tied with what PDA left. Basically, we were in salary cap hell, but had an all world center, who we needed to determine if we could build a contender around or not. If Vlade sat on his hands and we just wasted another year not trying, we wind up in DMC contract year with no answers if we can build a winner around him or not.
This leads us to the trade deadline trade that blew everything up and DMC was traded. Could we had gotten to that point without that Philly trade? Maybe, maybe not. We may have re-signed DMC to a supermax thinking we could still make it work, once we had some cap space. BUT, Vlade already tried and nothing solid came of everything he tried to put around DMC, thus the trade of DMC and look at where our team is now.
The trade was not good, but you can't argue that we aren't in a better position now, than had we not made that trade. The results are the results and we are sitting pretty right now (even if we wind up giving up a #10-16 pick this year).
So, Vlade had his hands tied with what PDA left. Basically, we were in salary cap hell, but had an all world center, who we needed to determine if we could build a contender around or not. If Vlade sat on his hands and we just wasted another year not trying, we wind up in DMC contract year with no answers if we can build a winner around him or not.
This leads us to the trade deadline trade that blew everything up and DMC was traded. Could we had gotten to that point without that Philly trade? Maybe, maybe not. We may have re-signed DMC to a supermax thinking we could still make it work, once we had some cap space. BUT, Vlade already tried and nothing solid came of everything he tried to put around DMC, thus the trade of DMC and look at where our team is now.
The trade was not good, but you can't argue that we aren't in a better position now, than had we not made that trade. The results are the results and we are sitting pretty right now (even if we wind up giving up a #10-16 pick this year).
Yeah.. you are right, obviously. I am so negative most of the time, it's so hard to hear other people doing it for me. I am sure everyone has said their peice over and over again on this subject. It most likely is the most talked about subject in all of Kings history besides game 6. I can't wait for the pick to be in on draft day, and that player be a bust outside the lottery ofcourse. so we can all finally move on with our fanship.
I am sure everyone has said their peice over and over again on this subject. It most likely is the most talked about subject in all of Kings history besides game 6. I can't wait for the pick to be in on draft day, and that player be a bust outside the lottery ofcourse. so we can all finally move on with our fanship.
Yeah.. you are right, obviously. I am so negative most of the time, it's so hard to hear other people doing it for me. I am sure everyone has said their peice over and over again on this subject. It most likely is the most talked about subject in all of Kings history besides game 6. I can't wait for the pick to be in on draft day, and that player be a bust outside the lottery ofcourse. so we can all finally move on with our fanship.
I am sure everyone has said their peice over and over again on this subject. It most likely is the most talked about subject in all of Kings history besides game 6. I can't wait for the pick to be in on draft day, and that player be a bust outside the lottery ofcourse. so we can all finally move on with our fanship.