That great feeling about next year.... GONE!

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#31
Kings2805 said:
Did Larry Brown have the talent and expectations that the Kings had b4 the season started? That would be NO, we were a team coming off our 5th 50 win season with 2 major offseason acqusitions in shareef and bonzi. With Amare out we were expected to challenge for the Pacific Division title. Larry Brown was coming into a team with the worst mismatched talent in the league, a overpriced payroll, preventing future moves, and an idiot as a GM who doesn't know how to build a team. Use better comparisons than these 2 coaches, bc they were in totally different situations.
Maybe 2 different situations, but the team actually did worse under Brown than pre-Brown.
 
#33
Warhawk said:
Maybe 2 different situations, but the team actually did worse under Brown than pre-Brown.
That maybe true, but look at what Isiah did in the offseason and during the season, to improve the talent level in NY. He signed playoff warrior Jerome James to a 5yr deal, signed and traded for Eddie Curry who was diagnosed with a potentially severe heart condition. Traded Kurt Thomas for Quentin Richardson, Traded for Jalen Rose, and lastly Traded for Steve Francis to team up with Stephon, does that seem like the Recipe for Success? It doesn't to me, and you can't blame Larry for something he had no control over. He told Isiah he needs better talent in there, and this is what he does.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#34
Kings2805 said:
Did Larry Brown have the talent and expectations that the Kings had b4 the season started? That would be NO, we were a team coming off our 5th 50 win season with 2 major offseason acqusitions in shareef and bonzi. With Amare out we were expected to challenge for the Pacific Division title. Larry Brown was coming into a team with the worst mismatched talent in the league, a overpriced payroll, preventing future moves, and an idiot as a GM who doesn't know how to build a team. Use better comparisons than these 2 coaches, bc they were in totally different situations.
a) the expectations for the Kings were largely the expectations of fools thinking fantasy basketball principles work in the NBA. Spare parts, no defenders, too many one dimensional scorers, and no leadership do not a contender make. Unless your basketball anlaysis extends no further than ppg and the name on the back of the jersey.

b) the Knicks were expected to get BETTER and challenge for a playoff spot. Instead they collapsed in one of the worst debacles I've ever seen in the NBA. A seething pile of puss. And it was largely on Larry. If he was not intentionally sabotaging the Knicks, then he has simply been revealed as an egomaniacal dumbass, because it was a pathetic showing in which he completely lost his team.
 
#35
I think it was a Power struggle between him and Isiah-Larry has a successful track record, and I would give hime the benefit of the doubt over Isiah regarding this debacle. They definately didn't have any chemistry going between coach and starbury which didn't help a damn thing.
 
#36
Bricklayer said:
Geoff's position does look tenuous for the first time in forever. I think the Maloofs have overridden him on a number of ocassions here, his old roomate is gone, his protege is gone, and most likely his mentor is gone. If you are Geoff Petrie, and it no longer really feels like its your team, what really would stop you from looking elsewhere, knowing that many owners would absolutely turn the whole show over to you?

Hmmm. . .I don't know. I thought the Webber trade was all Petrie. His "Princeton" was getting bogged down w/ CWebb and revolving mostly through Chris in the high post to the percieved detriment of Peja. I think Petrie set up the Peja-Artest deal, but it hinged on a lot of factors, and obviously the Maloofs need to sign off on that, as with any deal. When Artest put that 24 hour freeze on it, it became a 100% Maloof deal because Petrie had no more input. I mean, Geoff doesn't have to personally pay the guy, so it was out of his hands. It was a good basketball decision, so his end was taken care of.

But I think Peja really disappointed him, almost to the way that a son disappoints a father. Geoff invested a lot in Peja, and for the past 2-3 years Peja more than failed to meet expectations; he sulked, whined, distanced himself from the team, spent time on IR due to questionable injuries. I think that really took a toll on Geoff. I feel that Geoff did everything for Peja that he wished someone had done for him during his career. Peja could have had it all; a career spent in adoring Sacramento, in an offense designed for him to succeed. He should have been our Reggie Miller. Maybe he never wins a title, but the way Geoff designed it, Peja certainly would have been a key contributor to a lot of good playoff teams. It must have saddened him deeply to see Peja spiral the way that he did this year.

It appears that Geoff is the friend caught in the middle between Rick and the Maloofs. I think he understands both sides. We would all prefer that Rick came back, but I think we understand why he doesn't want to. But by the same token, if Phil Jackson is available, and I own a team, I'm making that phone call. I'm sorry, Rick's a great coach, but he doesn't have 9 rings. We can debate Phil's true greatness (although I think he proved it this year), but those rings speak volumes.
 
#37
Bricklayer said:
a)
b) the Knicks were expected to get BETTER and challenge for a playoff spot. Instead they collapsed in one of the worst debacles I've ever seen in the NBA. A seething pile of puss. And it was largely on Larry. If he was not intentionally sabotaging the Knicks, then he has simply been revealed as an egomaniacal dumbass, because it was a pathetic showing in which he completely lost his team.
The quote above is probably too long for a sig, so I'll just bold it fore anyone who may have missed it. LB was a proven winner and defense oriented coach, bar none. Evidently Maloofs didn't want RA back because they would prefer proven winner, defense oriented coach. Just for the record...
 
#38
Venom said:
Hmmm. . .I don't know. I thought the Webber trade was all Petrie. His "Princeton" was getting bogged down w/ CWebb and revolving mostly through Chris in the high post to the percieved detriment of Peja. I think Petrie set up the Peja-Artest deal, but it hinged on a lot of factors, and obviously the Maloofs need to sign off on that, as with any deal. When Artest put that 24 hour freeze on it, it became a 100% Maloof deal because Petrie had no more input. I mean, Geoff doesn't have to personally pay the guy, so it was out of his hands. It was a good basketball decision, so his end was taken care of.

But I think Peja really disappointed him, almost to the way that a son disappoints a father. Geoff invested a lot in Peja, and for the past 2-3 years Peja more than failed to meet expectations; he sulked, whined, distanced himself from the team, spent time on IR due to questionable injuries. I think that really took a toll on Geoff. I feel that Geoff did everything for Peja that he wished someone had done for him during his career. Peja could have had it all; a career spent in adoring Sacramento, in an offense designed for him to succeed. He should have been our Reggie Miller. Maybe he never wins a title, but the way Geoff designed it, Peja certainly would have been a key contributor to a lot of good playoff teams. It must have saddened him deeply to see Peja spiral the way that he did this year.

It appears that Geoff is the friend caught in the middle between Rick and the Maloofs. I think he understands both sides. We would all prefer that Rick came back, but I think we understand why he doesn't want to. But by the same token, if Phil Jackson is available, and I own a team, I'm making that phone call. I'm sorry, Rick's a great coach, but he doesn't have 9 rings. We can debate Phil's true greatness (although I think he proved it this year), but those rings speak volumes.
Very interesting. And if we are going to speculate on what has gone on behind the proverbial closed doors, I would lean towards your explanation. I would just add, that if you are right about Pedja trade and roles of GP and Maloofs, then Rick's stance on the same trade would be yet another nail in the coffin of his Kings career (RA was open about being against it at the time). Now, of course Rick came around and did better with the trade then (I think) any other coach in the league would, but if the Maloofs get so worked up about defense in Game 2 not even to entertain talks with Rick, who's to say that they haven't made their minds up about not extending Rick long time ago.