Teams that should Rise and Slide next season...

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Here's my list right now:

Lakers
Spurs
Portland
Denver
Dallas
Utah
Clippers
Hornets
---------
OKC
Rockets
Suns
Warriors
Grizzlies
Kings
Timberwolves

As of now, biggest risers probably Portland, Spurs, OKC and Clippers. Droppers include Rockets, Suns.

 

[Kingster]

When it comes to teams the Kings will actually "compete" against --

OKC is moving up. Of all the young teams (except Portland), they have the best talent. Minn and Memphis are going to be in the bottom 3. The Clipps could have a young MJ and still be in the lottery. Houston is probably going to be in the lottery; role players can take you only so far

If the Kings don't have a better record than Minn or Memphis, then it will be a major dissapointment. Getting 30 or more wins would be a major surprise.

 

[Kingsguy881]

^Richard Jefferson is not going to bring the Spurs back to the top of the heap. I have to agree with kupman - which doesn't happen very often. If anything happens to Tiny Tim, they are beyond toast and all the way to random crumbs under the toaster.

Maybe, but what I failed to mention is that they also get a healthy Manu Ginobli back, a BIG reason why the Spurs are dangerous.

Also, if anything happens to ANY team's anchor they are toast. Why bring up if anything happens to Mr. Iron Man himself? What if something happens to LBJ, Kobe, Wade(and we have seen what that does to Miami), Dirk, KG(just saw what that did to them) or any other very important piece on a championship contender? Melo? Billups? Dwight Howard?

I just don't buy the argument of "If such and such happens to such and such". And what if the world all ended today, guess nobody has a shot next year....

 

[VF21]

^^The point is that the Spurs don't have a youth movement to build on if Duncan goes down. You want to talk about Lebron ... or any other team, for that matter ... fine. We can do that if you like but you were talking about the Spurs hence my response about Tim Duncan.

The problem about Duncan is he is so dominant on that team that without him they simply do not look like a team at all.

As far as the world ending today, why is it people have to resort to gross exaggerations to try and refute an opinion?

 

[Kingsguy881]

^^The point is that the Spurs don't have a youth movement to build on if Duncan goes down. You want to talk about Lebron ... or any other team, for that matter ... fine. We can do that if you like but you were talking about the Spurs hence my response about Tim Duncan.

The problem about Duncan is he is so dominant on that team that without him they simply do not look like a team at all.

As far as the world ending today, why is it people have to resort to gross exaggerations to try and refute an opinion?

Ok......then answer me this. If Kobe goes down with a season ender, do the Lakers win the Larry O'Brien? Basically what you said was "If team A loses their best player, that team doesn't stand a chance".

That applies to ANY team in the league, it is just such a generalization to say that, which is why I attacked it. Not trying to attack you or anything, but a blanket statement like "I don't buy what you are saying because their best player COULD get hurt and where will they be then?" does not hold water.

And my example of "If the world ended today....." is not my way of being overly dramatic, it's to prove to the poster I'm responding to that ANYTHING can happen. It is there to refute the previous person's "well, what if this happens, then...."

 

[VF21]

Ok......then answer me this. If Kobe goes down with a season ender, do the Lakers win the Larry O'Brien? Basically what you said was "If team A loses their best player, that team doesn't stand a chance".

That applies to ANY team in the league, it is just such a generalization to say that, which is why I attacked it. Not trying to attack you or anything, but a blanket statement like "I don't buy what you are saying because their best player COULD get hurt and where will they be then?" does not hold water.

And my example of "If the world ended today....." is not my way of being overly dramatic, it's to prove to the poster I'm responding to that ANYTHING can happen. It is there to refute the previous person's "well, what if this happens, then...."

Let's recap. kupman said:

My dark horse "slide" team is the Spurs. They are just plain old at this point. Injuries are likely to rock them hard. Maybe they even miss the playoffs.

In response, you said:

WRONG! They just picked up Richard Jefferson for nothing. Top 3 in the West they will be. (Yoda style)

That's when I came in with:

^Richard Jefferson is not going to bring the Spurs back to the top of the heap. I have to agree with kupman - which doesn't happen very often. If anything happens to Tiny Tim, they are beyond toast and all the way to random crumbs under the toaster.

I still agree with kupman that the Spurs are, for the most part, getting older by the minute without the influx of young players you generally need to keep a team vitalized. They put all their eggs in the same old basket, hoping their team would advance much further than they did.

The addition of Richard Jefferson is not, IMHO, enough to put them back in the top 3, which was what you said. AddingManu Ginobli back into the mix doesn't solve all their problems.

Basically we agree about the elite teams depending on their superstars to the extent that if anything happens to said superstar, said elite team plummets to earth like Icarus.

I guess where we differ the most is in the potential impact Richard Jefferson will have on the team. I just don't think it's going to be the BIG solution to their problem.

 

[Kingsguy881]

^Well, what was their problem? A lack of scoring and ability to compete at the SF spot, bench scoring, toughness, and scrappy play. RJeff brings them a solid scorer from the SF position who can also shoot from the perimeter. They get back tough as nails Ginobli and the scoring impact and scrappy play he brings. You are telling me this lineup:

Parker
Ginobli
RJeff
TD
(Anyone)

Would not improve past a 1st round exit? And in fact would not make the playoffs? They have 3 all stars and added a borderline 4th and this is all the respect they get? And they drafted Blair who is probably the biggest steal of the draft. I'm sorry, I don't see why we are having this argument. This is one of those times where I archive this joint and bring it back up at the end of the season.

 

[VF21]

Borderline ludicrous because my opinion disagrees with yours? Hrm... Sounds like a Spurs fan to me.

Gonna let that joint blaze? No problem. It's just my opinion. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Not a big problem to me.

 

[Kingsguy881]

^ I bleed purple. Always have.

I just can't believe how often people write off the Spurs. They won like 4 rings in the last 10 years, which coincides with Duncans rookie year. Duncan just turned 33! He is barely TWO YEARS OLDER THAN KOBE!!!!

I don't get where the disrespect of those guys comes from. I hated the Spurs until they traded Bowen away, I admit I liked them before Bowen and like them again now, post Bowen.

But I am a Kings fan through and through ever since I grew up next door to a Kings player.

But if any team slides it won't be the Spurs. Karl Malone didn't hit the burner until he was 40, his first injury plagued year of his career and the first since his rookie where he didn't average 20+pts. I foresee a similar, if not as long, career for Timmy. He'll bow out when he is 37-38 and still going fairly strong.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

I for one do not disrespect the Spurs, but I for one consider them only a borderline first tier team.

With the Spurs' age, you have not acknowledged the increased risk for injury. It was clear last year that the Spurs need all of their stars to compete in the playoffs, as Ginobli's absence decimated the team's scoring during the season. They have a thinning roster.

The Spurs are an old team that is getting older, period. They will become more of a longshot in each of the coming years.

 

[Bricklayer]

They are, but the Jefferson trade gives them a lot more bounce back ability for an injury to one of their big three. I don't consider a team with that much age a title contender anymore, and they haven't looked it. But by adding a 4th high quality amigo, they should be able to survive injuries better than they have the last few years and it would take an even worse run of luck than they had last year to actualy knock them out of the playoffs entirely.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

They are, but the Jefferson trade gives them a lot more bounce back ability for an injury to one of their big three. I don't consider a team with that much age a title contender anymore, and they haven't looked it. But by adding a 4th high quality amigo, they should be able to survive injuries better than they have the last few years and it would take an even worse run of luck than they had last year to actualy knock them out of the playoffs entirely.

That is true, I'm not familiar with Richard Jefferson's game.

 

[bajaden]

If you look at the Spur's roster as it stands now, it has no depth. After you get past Duncan, Parker, Jefferson and Ginobli, who do they have? Bonner, Mason, maybe Finley. Who backs up Duncan? Duncan is 32, and Ginobli is going to be 32 shortly, and possibly is starting to become injury prone.

Now its still early and they may well add a player or two that could make a difference. But if they have to rely on their starting five to play excessive minutes, I think their in trouble. They may well end up being competive, but there's no championship in their immediate future.

 

[rainmaker]

If you look at the Spur's roster as it stands now, it has no depth. After you get past Duncan, Parker, Jefferson and Ginobli, who do they have? Bonner, Mason, maybe Finley. Who backs up Duncan? Duncan is 32, and Ginobli is going to be 32 shortly, and possibly is starting to become injury prone.

Now its still early and they may well add a player or two that could make a difference. But if they have to rely on their starting five to play excessive minutes, I think their in trouble. They may well end up being competive, but there's no championship in their immediate future.

There are a lot of rumors about Big Baby going to the Spur's. They are just rumors at this point, but if he ends up there, I think he will really help their bench.

 

[Kingsguy881]

That is true, I'm not familiar with Richard Jefferson's game.

That is the major problem with most Kings fans.....In their minds they are "experts", with the best opinion on anything Kings basketball, but once you go outside and start talking NBA they know very little.

RJ is a slasher/dunker/thief with a decent-and-getting-better outside shot. He is a capable rebounder and he gets to the free throw line at a good clip. He is everything the Spurs have been missing.

And as far as the Spurs "getting old", Stockton and Malone were 33 and 34 when they were battling MJ for the trophy.

 

[Kingster]

If you look at the Spur's roster as it stands now, it has no depth. After you get past Duncan, Parker, Jefferson and Ginobli, who do they have? Bonner, Mason, maybe Finley. Who backs up Duncan? Duncan is 32, and Ginobli is going to be 32 shortly, and possibly is starting to become injury prone.

Now its still early and they may well add a player or two that could make a difference. But if they have to rely on their starting five to play excessive minutes, I think their in trouble. They may well end up being competive, but there's no championship in their immediate future.

I don't think they have a championship in their immediate future either, but I do think Blair is going to give them significant help off the bench. If you want to see a mad 280 lb rebounding monster, just watch Blair this year. He's got be soo incredibly ticked at being chosen so low in the 2nd round, and he going to be playing with a huge chip on his shoulder. He's not going to have to worry much about fouling out. He'll just go out there and bruise people.

 

[Telemachus]

And as far as the Spurs "getting old", Stockton and Malone were 33 and 34 when they were battling MJ for the trophy.

Yeah, but Stockton and Malone NEVER even looked injury prone during their careers. Kept themselves in too good a shape. Ginobli has been very injury prone the last couple seasons, and Duncan is getting more and more of those nagging injuries every year (or so it seems). Jefferson should definitely put them back into the mix up top, but their window is getting much more narrow.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

That is the major problem with most Kings fans.....In their minds they are "experts", with the best opinion on anything Kings basketball, but once you go outside and start talking NBA they know very little.

RJ is a slasher/dunker/thief with a decent-and-getting-better outside shot. He is a capable rebounder and he gets to the free throw line at a good clip. He is everything the Spurs have been missing.

And as far as the Spurs "getting old", Stockton and Malone were 33 and 34 when they were battling MJ for the trophy.

Can be applied to 75% of fans of any team.

 

[kingsnation]

Can be applied to 75% of fans of any team of any sport.

Fixed.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I tend to agree with Gary and his list, sorta. I think the Kings and OKC could move up to that fringe group while Suns move down more and the Rockets fight to get into that fringe group but they could just as easily fall out all together. Memphis is a mystery but they always seem to fall out later in the season.

Dark horse to fall down to the fringe group? The Mavs.

Not to single you out but I think this was all but obliterated with the recent acquisition of the Matrix. Dallas looks poised to contend for the title now, with Kidd throwing lobs to Marion? Disgusting how the best teams keep on getting better.