Talk about Brockman (split from the welcome thread)
- Thread starter GibraltarRock
- Start date
Do we really need him to be a shot-blocker? He's the #38 pick in the draft. If he ends up somewhere in the rotation, playing 8-12 min I'd be happy.
It seems that we are attempting to shed our soft image, which is a great thing for us....
"Portland (from New York though Chicago, traded to Sacramento for rights to J. Pendergraph)Jon Brockman6-7255PFWashingtonThe Blazers are picking for Sacramento here, and the Kings are clearly on a toughness kick. Brockman is a warrior in the paint and along with Andres Nocioni, Tyreke Evans and Omri Casspi should seriously put a dent in Sacramento's soft label"
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/round?draftyear=2009&round=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnbadraft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fround%3fdraftyear%3d2009%26round%3d2
I'm using shotblokcing there as a shorthand for: every kid in college could go right over him and now he will be face to face with most NBA bigs' jocks. I like hustle. I like rebounding. I lie attempts to get tougher. But toguher is irrelevant if you come on the floor and the other team targets you the same way they do our soft little SG. If he can't defend his position he has no use on a winning team. Maybe he can beat some toughness into Spencer in practice or something.
OK, if you're not happy with the pick, here's picks #39 thru #50. Which one of these would you prefer, and why?
9 (39)Detroit (from Toronto)Jonas Jerebko6-9220SFSwedenGood Pistons player, a third combo forward. Jerebko is tough, runs the floor, has a great body and is really athletic. He needs more experience, but he's a nice asset.
10 (40)Charlotte (from New Jersey through Oklahoma City)Derrick Brown6-9225PFXavierI love this pick for the Bobcats. I think Brown, had he stayed in school another year, would've been a surefire first-round pick. He's an excellent athlete; he can play the 3 and the 4; and he still has lots of upside.
11 (41)MilwaukeeJodie Meeks6-4211SGKentuckyMeeks can provide some big-time scoring off the bench. Nice pick here, although I worry about his lack of athleticism.
12 (42)LA Lakers (from Charlotte)Patrick Beverley6-1172PGUkraineBeverley was playing in Ukraine a few months ago. Now he's in L.A.? What a ride! He's super athletic, is a lockdown defender, and can play both the 1 and the 2. Nice pick for the Lakers.
13 (43)Miami (from Indiana, rights to M. Thornton traded to New Orleans for future considerations)Marcus Thornton6-4194SGLSUThe Heat are sending this pick to the Hornets. Thornton played at LSU so he should feel right at home. He's a nice pick. He's a big-time scorer, but his lack of size and athleticism hurt his stock a bit. He has a chance to stick.
14 (44)Detroit (rights to C. Budinger traded to Houston for future considerations)Chase Budinger6-7206SGArizonaThe Pistons sent this pick to the Rockets. Budinger is a good athlete who can shoot the lights out, and I'm a little surprised he slipped this far. Two years ago he looked like a lottery pick. He can really help Houston with his shooting. The Rockets, for not having had any picks at the start of this thing, have had a nice draft.
15 (45)Minnesota (from Philadelphia through Miami)Nick Calathes6-5185PGFloridaWow! The Timberwolves have selected their fourth point guard of the night. Yes, they sent Ty Lawson to Denver and Calathes is heading to Greece, but all in all, this is still a surprise. I guess David Kahn likes point guards. Calathes is a real steal here, a terrific passer with a great feel for the game. John Hollinger's Draft Rater loved him. I think his deal with Greece created some ambiguity and caused his stock to slip.
16 (46)Cleveland (from Chicago)Danny Green6-7208SFNorth CarolinaGreen is a great pick for Cleveland. He's very versatile, shoots the ball well and is a solid athlete. He could make this team and be a very solid rotation player in Cleveland.
17 (47)Minnesota (from Miami)Henk Norel6-11211PFNetherlandsNorel is the first player drafted that I didn't have in my top 60. He's an energy guy who isn't especially skilled. I wasn't wowed by him at the Reebok Eurocamp. But I defer to Pete Philo, the Wolves' excellent international scout -- he runs the camp and knows his stuff.
18 (48)PhoenixTaylor Griffin6-7240SFOklahomaBlake's brother has a big night, too. He's very tough, he's athletic, he has a great motor and he can even shoot a bit. I'm not sure he's an NBA player, but this is a solid second-round pick.
19 (49)AtlantaSergiy Gladyr6-5190SGUkraineI saw Gladyr play in Italy at the Reebok Eurocamp this year, and I was really impressed. He's a good athlete, a good scorer and a poised player. He'll continue to develop in Europe, but someday this could be a solid pick for the Hawks.
20 (50)UtahGoran Suton6-10245CMichigan StateI liked Suton at Michigan State, but he's sort of like Kosta Koufos and I'm not sure he'll actually play for the Jazz for a while. Look for him to go play in Europe for a few years.
9 (39)Detroit (from Toronto)Jonas Jerebko6-9220SFSwedenGood Pistons player, a third combo forward. Jerebko is tough, runs the floor, has a great body and is really athletic. He needs more experience, but he's a nice asset.
10 (40)Charlotte (from New Jersey through Oklahoma City)Derrick Brown6-9225PFXavierI love this pick for the Bobcats. I think Brown, had he stayed in school another year, would've been a surefire first-round pick. He's an excellent athlete; he can play the 3 and the 4; and he still has lots of upside.
11 (41)MilwaukeeJodie Meeks6-4211SGKentuckyMeeks can provide some big-time scoring off the bench. Nice pick here, although I worry about his lack of athleticism.
12 (42)LA Lakers (from Charlotte)Patrick Beverley6-1172PGUkraineBeverley was playing in Ukraine a few months ago. Now he's in L.A.? What a ride! He's super athletic, is a lockdown defender, and can play both the 1 and the 2. Nice pick for the Lakers.
13 (43)Miami (from Indiana, rights to M. Thornton traded to New Orleans for future considerations)Marcus Thornton6-4194SGLSUThe Heat are sending this pick to the Hornets. Thornton played at LSU so he should feel right at home. He's a nice pick. He's a big-time scorer, but his lack of size and athleticism hurt his stock a bit. He has a chance to stick.
14 (44)Detroit (rights to C. Budinger traded to Houston for future considerations)Chase Budinger6-7206SGArizonaThe Pistons sent this pick to the Rockets. Budinger is a good athlete who can shoot the lights out, and I'm a little surprised he slipped this far. Two years ago he looked like a lottery pick. He can really help Houston with his shooting. The Rockets, for not having had any picks at the start of this thing, have had a nice draft.
15 (45)Minnesota (from Philadelphia through Miami)Nick Calathes6-5185PGFloridaWow! The Timberwolves have selected their fourth point guard of the night. Yes, they sent Ty Lawson to Denver and Calathes is heading to Greece, but all in all, this is still a surprise. I guess David Kahn likes point guards. Calathes is a real steal here, a terrific passer with a great feel for the game. John Hollinger's Draft Rater loved him. I think his deal with Greece created some ambiguity and caused his stock to slip.
16 (46)Cleveland (from Chicago)Danny Green6-7208SFNorth CarolinaGreen is a great pick for Cleveland. He's very versatile, shoots the ball well and is a solid athlete. He could make this team and be a very solid rotation player in Cleveland.
17 (47)Minnesota (from Miami)Henk Norel6-11211PFNetherlandsNorel is the first player drafted that I didn't have in my top 60. He's an energy guy who isn't especially skilled. I wasn't wowed by him at the Reebok Eurocamp. But I defer to Pete Philo, the Wolves' excellent international scout -- he runs the camp and knows his stuff.
18 (48)PhoenixTaylor Griffin6-7240SFOklahomaBlake's brother has a big night, too. He's very tough, he's athletic, he has a great motor and he can even shoot a bit. I'm not sure he's an NBA player, but this is a solid second-round pick.
19 (49)AtlantaSergiy Gladyr6-5190SGUkraineI saw Gladyr play in Italy at the Reebok Eurocamp this year, and I was really impressed. He's a good athlete, a good scorer and a poised player. He'll continue to develop in Europe, but someday this could be a solid pick for the Hawks.
20 (50)UtahGoran Suton6-10245CMichigan StateI liked Suton at Michigan State, but he's sort of like Kosta Koufos and I'm not sure he'll actually play for the Jazz for a while. Look for him to go play in Europe for a few years.
Brown and Calathes for sure. Green and Beverley possibly -- I know them mostly by rep. Budinger, Meeks and Thornton all are more likely NBA prospects as well. And then of course that still left Mills.
Unudersized unathletic bigs have a helluva time in the NBA. Brockman is tough, he will add hustle...but only if he makes the team and can get on the floor. And he won't be able to stay on the floor if our catastrophically bad interior defense gets even worse with him there.
Unudersized unathletic bigs have a helluva time in the NBA. Brockman is tough, he will add hustle...but only if he makes the team and can get on the floor. And he won't be able to stay on the floor if our catastrophically bad interior defense gets even worse with him there.
Brockman is 6'-7" in socks, meaning he's taller than 6'-8" in shoes. So he's about the same size as Shelden Williams - still a bit undersized but not a midget by any means. There are plenty of 6'8" PF in the league so I think Brockman has a chance to stick. He is the guy who hustles, rebounds, and hustles some more. Just your typical 10th to 13th man. I think this is a good pick.
I don't see anyone after Brockman that intrigues me, least of all Derrick Brown. The announcer at the NBA Combine for NBATV told of a story about Brown: He was working out for a team picking in late 1st. The GM came up to him, looked him in the eyes and said, "You shouldn't be here. You should be a lottery pick. Your agent brought you here because you're not motivated and you didn't bring it every game." Just the kind of player you don't want to draft.
I don't see anyone after Brockman that intrigues me, least of all Derrick Brown. The announcer at the NBA Combine for NBATV told of a story about Brown: He was working out for a team picking in late 1st. The GM came up to him, looked him in the eyes and said, "You shouldn't be here. You should be a lottery pick. Your agent brought you here because you're not motivated and you didn't bring it every game." Just the kind of player you don't want to draft.
I'd be fine with Suton. I think it's about preference. Suton is taller and a better all-around player but he's not on the same level as Brockman as a rebounder. Although I'm not sure what Suton's calling card is in the NBA. Mill is just another backup PG. I personally don't care much about him.
Brockman got 18 rebs against Cole Aldrich. 14 rebs against Taj Gibson. Went 27 and 16 against Jordan Hill. The dude can rebound so he has a chance to stick around the NBA. That's not bad for a #38 pick.
And the funny thing is, if you believe the GP bashers, Suton is exactly the type of jump-shooting big man the supposedly defense-be-damned Petrie would have picked, and Brockman is exactly the type of rugged rebounder that GP wouldn't have interest in.
Brockman got 18 rebs against Cole Aldrich. 14 rebs against Taj Gibson. Went 27 and 16 against Jordan Hill. The dude can rebound so he has a chance to stick around the NBA. That's not bad for a #38 pick.
And the funny thing is, if you believe the GP bashers, Suton is exactly the type of jump-shooting big man the supposedly defense-be-damned Petrie would have picked, and Brockman is exactly the type of rugged rebounder that GP wouldn't have interest in.
David Lee is a much better comparison than Ostertag (although the Lee comparison isn't that accurate either). Hrrmm.. For those who haven't seen him he is a scrappy "poor mans" mix of Troy Murphy, and David Lee.. He can provide energy from the bench and get you excellent per48 stats (although he's not a player you want to leave in for 48 minutes). He's a smart kid, and knows his limitations.
Is this a debate worth having?
I wanted to see if this is a debate worth having. In other words, how did other #38 pics fare? Are they all out of the league? Did any make an impact?
I researched this, and I concluded that you can get a quality player at #38. I looked at the #38 pics from 2001 to 2008. Here’s the list, underneath I’ve included other notable pics #39-50.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/histround?draftyear=2001
So, you can get some gems at this spot. Hopefully, we’ve made the right pick. Quite frankly, I think he’s got limited upside, maybe 10-15 min role player, at best. Although I’ve never seen him play, in 5 years, I don’t think we’re going to be talking about him being a better #38 pic than Duhon or Okur.
Notable #38 pics: Chris Duhon, Steve Blake, Mehmet Okur
Other notable #39-50 pics: Marc Gasol, Monta Ellis, Trevor Ariza
2008 Kyle Weaver, Charlotte
2007 Kyrylo Fesenko, Philly
Marc Gasol, #48
2006 Kosta Perovic, Golden State
Daniel Gibson, #42
Paul Millsap, #47
Leon Powe, #49
2005 Travis Diener, Orlando
Monta Ellis, #40
Lou Williams, #45
Ryan Gomes, #50
2004 Chris Duhon, Chi
Trevor Ariza, #43
2003 Steve Blake, Wash
Willie Green, #41
Zaza Pachulia, #42
Keith Bogans, #43
Matt Bonner, #45
Mo Williams, #47
James Jones, #49
2002 Tito Maddox, Hou
Juan Carlos Navarro, #40
Ronald Murray, #42
Matt Barnes, #46
Darius Songaila, #50
2001 Mehmet Okur, Detroit
Earl Watson, #40
Bobby Simmons, #42
I wanted to see if this is a debate worth having. In other words, how did other #38 pics fare? Are they all out of the league? Did any make an impact?
I researched this, and I concluded that you can get a quality player at #38. I looked at the #38 pics from 2001 to 2008. Here’s the list, underneath I’ve included other notable pics #39-50.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/histround?draftyear=2001
So, you can get some gems at this spot. Hopefully, we’ve made the right pick. Quite frankly, I think he’s got limited upside, maybe 10-15 min role player, at best. Although I’ve never seen him play, in 5 years, I don’t think we’re going to be talking about him being a better #38 pic than Duhon or Okur.
Notable #38 pics: Chris Duhon, Steve Blake, Mehmet Okur
Other notable #39-50 pics: Marc Gasol, Monta Ellis, Trevor Ariza
2008 Kyle Weaver, Charlotte
2007 Kyrylo Fesenko, Philly
Marc Gasol, #48
2006 Kosta Perovic, Golden State
Daniel Gibson, #42
Paul Millsap, #47
Leon Powe, #49
2005 Travis Diener, Orlando
Monta Ellis, #40
Lou Williams, #45
Ryan Gomes, #50
2004 Chris Duhon, Chi
Trevor Ariza, #43
2003 Steve Blake, Wash
Willie Green, #41
Zaza Pachulia, #42
Keith Bogans, #43
Matt Bonner, #45
Mo Williams, #47
James Jones, #49
2002 Tito Maddox, Hou
Juan Carlos Navarro, #40
Ronald Murray, #42
Matt Barnes, #46
Darius Songaila, #50
2001 Mehmet Okur, Detroit
Earl Watson, #40
Bobby Simmons, #42
The times I watched Brockman I was impressed with his tenacity while rebounding. He literally doesn't stop on the offensive glass (until the taller, more athletic guy snatches it away), but really, he does go after it and has good timing and guys bounce off of him.
And that's about it for Brockman...
And that's about it for Brockman...