Suns @ Kings Game Thread

[allrightythen]

We have the starting 5 and then Skinner, Thomas, Hart that will see minutes regularly.

Williamson, Martin, Garcia will have to share Pedja's resting minutes eventhough there is a possibility of Bibby, Hart and Wells being on the floor at the same time. So unless an injury happenes Garcia will watch a lot of games and he will inherit Kevins DNP - CD trade mark from last season

True again. Williamson will get playing time in specific matchups (IMO). The only thing that might save Garcia is that he can shoot the ball (despite tonights performance). He does have a decent jump shot so that might be the one-up he has on Martin from last year. If tonight was a sign of things to come at all, I don't think he will see much time if any come the important games. We'll see.

 

[ForlornKing]

Coaches tell him to shoot the ball.

 

[piksi]

Coaches tell him to shoot the ball.

with 20 sec on the clock with hand in his face - I don't think so

How well are You familiar with RA's style of coaching ?

 

[Kings113]

Meaningless game, but great to see the second unit and campies get time. Still surprised Sampson didn't get more time, hopefully in the last 2 games he gets over 6-7 minutes. Loved his clobbering of someone in the corner for a three, that got a fist pump . Defended the paint pretty well also. Sandrin didn't show too much at all, other than a sweet jumping putback that got me up from laying down . I still think he'll be cut.

Other than Garcia's shot, he was good again. Continues to impress. Martin had a very good game, impressing again too. As far as Garcia's shot goes, I think he's just working on it for pre-season. He doesn't need to take it early in the clock like he has sometimes so far, but I'm sure that'll be adjusted as time goes on. Really dug Flores tonight (because he actually got some minutes, I knew he had skills), and Price again. If Flores doesn't make it, at least he is showing what he can do in general. Skinner continues to be great, and KT was good as usual. Peja looked really nice for what he played.

 

[piksi]

hopefully in the last 3 games he gets over 6-7 minutes.

Aren't there only 2 preseason game left ?

 

[6th]

Aren't there only 2 preseason game left ?

Yep...the 26th and the 28th.

 

[Kings113]

Oops, you're right. Suns/Lakers.

 

[Kings113]

I want retractions from all of the people on this board who said that the Suns had no 3pt shooters anymore.

I didn't say that, but certainly do, and knew that. Nash/Bell/Jones/Marion/J-Jax/House all quality 3 pt shooters.

its just preaseason. RA put a bunch of guys that havnt even played together and you expect them to play like starters. As for Garcia, let him take all the shots he wants, its better now then reg season and its good that we have a player that actually wants to take the shots plus he is capable of making them so dont cry.

I agree. Garcia'll be fine for the most part.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Just in from the game



The Good the Bad and the Ugly



The Good: Because Fresno only got about 2,000 in the arena they open up the seating meaning that I got to move from my $50 up in the corner to 6 rows back at mid court. Because it was empty I got to shot praise to Martin and Skiner and they actually heard me. I got to yell at Nash to stop whineing and yes he heard me as well. Kevin really looked smooth and in control from vantage point and Skiner looked very sharp and in control defiantly using BOTH his head and his body. And his block on Marion… one of the best I have ever seen! Lots of time for the PG try outs and both Price and Flores did not look too bad and BOTH played with heart. Advantage defiantly goes to Price I think he is a keeper as the #3 PG on the bench. Got to take the Triumph to the game and parked for free in my usual spot (easy to spot from the small pool of British motor oil that perpetually lingers there)



The BAD: Ok Sunday night and only 2,000 people show up for a live NBA game in the Big NO???? What did everyone else in town have better things to do? Not a lot of the core 3 tonight and that always sucks. Too much Garcia. I KNOW he will not see any thing likethis in the regular season but up close and personal he looked rough, real rough in terms of shot selection, court vision and decision making. Charged headfirst into doubles and let him self get into trouble also did not see the open man on several occasions, but he did hustle and held his own against players with much more experience. I hoped Sandrin enjoyed his dunk (I sure did) but I suspect he will not be joining the team on the trip to Albert’s Turkey. No Boinzi? Sad. Save mart Center STILL does not have garlic fries!



The Ugly: Did I mention how empty and quiet the place was? Did mention Garcia’s shot selection? Did I mention Steve Nash’s hair? Ok Have to give credit Nash was impressive, the guy has phenomenal energy and makes that team run. Back to the ugly; Burke… the only thing scarier than the way he looks is the way he shoots. Jamal Sampson… Ok I can accept him as the 3rd center on the bench but he really looked lost out there. Can’t handle the ball at all and has no real moves. Finally the game really amounted to the Suns vets against the Kings Kids and the score board says a lot. Sure Skiner and Kenny were out there with the younguns, but really when the Suns “bench” is fielding Jimmy Jackson, Eddie House and Raja Bell it’s not exactly a fair match up. Even with an empty parking lot fools left early to “beat the traffic.”



Not sure If I was visible or audible but I am watching the replay on CSN right now!

 

[VF21]

you guys are taking this game to serious lol, its just preaseason. RA put a bunch of guys that havnt even played together and you expect them to play like starters. C'mon now please its getting really sad. As for Garcia, let him take all the shots he wants, its better now then reg season and its good that we have a player that actually wants to take the shots plus he is capable of making them so dont cry.

You're not serious, are you?

Have you watched any Kings basketball before this year?

Garcia should NOT be taking early shots. We aren't a shoot-first offense and he has to learn that very quickly if he plans on going very far with this team. It is NOT good for a rookie to get the idea he can take all the shots he wants - whether it's pre-season or not.

I have to believe you're new to being a Kings fan because the "it's good that we have a player that actually wants to take the shots" statement simply reeks of someone who hasn't followed our team.

Tonight, Francisco Garcia tried WAY too hard to make it the Francisco Garcia show. He took too many quick shots; he didn't get ANY boards. He only had a couple of assists.

On the other hand, Kevin Martin had 15 points, 9 boards, 1 assist AND 5 steals. That's a good performance, even if Grant and Jerry dont want to give credit to anyone but Garcia for some reason known only to them.

I like Garcia and think he'll be good FOR the team but he's not above the team and how they play their game.

If Garcia cannot learn that, he'll be no better than Cuttino Mobley. We flourish with a TEAM player.

 

[VF21]

Just in from the game



The Good the Bad and the Ugly



The Good: Because Fresno only got about 2,000 in the arena they open up the seating meaning that I got to move from my $50 up in the corner to 6 rows back at mid court. Because it was empty I got to shot praise to Martin and Skiner and they actually heard me. I got to yell at Nash to stop whineing and yes he heard me as well. Kevin really looked smooth and in control from vantage point and Skiner looked very sharp and in control defiantly using BOTH his head and his body. And his block on Marion… one of the best I have ever seen! Lots of time for the PG try outs and both Price and Flores did not look too bad and BOTH played with heart. Advantage defiantly goes to Price I think he is a keeper as the #3 PG on the bench. Got to take the Triumph to the game and parked for free in my usual spot (easy to spot from the small pool of British motor oil that perpetually lingers there)



The BAD: Ok Sunday night and only 2,000 people show up for a live NBA game in the Big NO???? What did everyone else in town have better things to do? Not a lot of the core 3 tonight and that always sucks. Too much Garcia. I KNOW he will not see any thing likethis in the regular season but up close and personal he looked rough, real rough in terms of shot selection, court vision and decision making. Charged headfirst into doubles and let him self get into trouble also did not see the open man on several occasions, but he did hustle and held his own against players with much more experience. I hoped Sandrin enjoyed his dunk (I sure did) but I suspect he will not be joining the team on the trip to Albert’s Turkey. No Boinzi? Sad. Save mart Center STILL does not have garlic fries!



The Ugly: Did I mention how empty and quiet the place was? Did mention Garcia’s shot selection? Did I mention Steve Nash’s hair? Ok Have to give credit Nash was impressive, the guy has phenomenal energy and makes that team run. Back to the ugly; Burke… the only thing scarier than the way he looks is the way he shoots. Jamal Sampson… Ok I can accept him as the 3rd center on the bench but he really looked lost out there. Can’t handle the ball at all and has no real moves. Finally the game really amounted to the Suns vets against the Kings Kids and the score board says a lot. Sure Skiner and Kenny were out there with the younguns, but really when the Suns “bench” is fielding Jimmy Jackson, Eddie House and Raja Bell it’s not exactly a fair match up. Even with an empty parking lot fools left early to “beat the traffic.”



Not sure If I was visible or audible but I am watching the replay on CSN right now!

Glad to see you had a good viewpoint. Be sure and watch the half-time interview. Apparently Joe Maloof doesn't count very well because he was trying to say there were about 9,000 people there as they panned on all the empty seats behind him.

 

[Kings113]

Basing what Sampson did tonight isn't the best. He's played a total of like 8-10 minutes with us. Tonight he had a block, couple boards, and defended the paint pretty well. Last night he had a couple boards, an assist, and a post-up lay-up (even if it was against Jin).

Hopefully he gets over 8 minutes in the next two games. He won't be cut though.

 

[HndsmCelt]

LOL 9,000 not a chance. Im guessing at the 2,000 figgure but the top tier was virtually empty and the lower bowel looked a litle over half full. I belive the arena seats 18.000 so you folks can do the math for your sleves.

 

[VF21]

Basing what Sampson did tonight isn't the best. He's played a total of like 8-10 minutes with us. Tonight he had a block, couple boards, and defended the paint pretty well. Last night he had a couple boards, an assist, and a post-up lay-up (even if it was against Jin).

Hopefully he gets over 8 minutes in the next two games. He won't be cut though.

Sorry, but I sure don't share your enthusiasm about Sampson whatsoever. I haven't been impressed in the least with what he's done... Defended the paint? Against what? Rust????? I certainly don't recall seeing anything spectacular and I did the PBP, so my eyes were pretty much on the TV most of the time.

 

[Kings241]

You're not serious, are you?

Have you watched any Kings basketball before this year?

Garcia should NOT be taking early shots. We aren't a shoot-first offense and he has to learn that very quickly if he plans on going very far with this team. It is NOT good for a rookie to get the idea he can take all the shots he wants - whether it's pre-season or not.

I have to believe you're new to being a Kings fan because the "it's good that we have a player that actually wants to take the shots" statement simply reeks of someone who hasn't followed our team.

Tonight, Francisco Garcia tried WAY too hard to make it the Francisco Garcia show. He took too many quick shots; he didn't get ANY boards. He only had a couple of assists.

On the other hand, Kevin Martin had 15 points, 9 boards, 1 assist AND 5 steals. That's a good performance, even if Grant and Jerry dont want to give credit to anyone but Garcia for some reason known only to them.

I like Garcia and think he'll be good FOR the team but he's not above the team and how they play their game.

If Garcia cannot learn that, he'll be no better than Cuttino Mobley. We flourish with a TEAM player.

LOL if i were new to being a Kings fan i wouldnt be a Kings fan, i would probably be a Suns or Heat fan J/k anyways no im not new but im just saying dont blame him cause he was use to playing like that in College so give the guy a break, im sure he will get it right before season starts.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Well let's face it the team HAS to have a #3 Center and the options are prety much Luke or Sampson... I may not be over joyed at having Sampson as the last Cener on the bench but as is you have to give him the edge over Luke in terms of size, experience, and shot blocking. But in a real game I'd sooner see Corless ply the 5 than either of them and you KNOW how I feel about small ball.

 

[Kings241]

Well, speaking only for myself, it has to do with a couple of things. As you said, he is a rookies. IMHO a rookie should show respect to veterans. Taking over the game yourself, and not passing off to anyone show a "me 1st attitude". Not going to ingratiate you to vets.

The shots that he took today were pretty wide open and within the offense if you saw the game or not... Those were all good shots but they just didnt go in.

 

[Rockmeister]

Garcia hasn't impressed me at all. Yea, I know, its just pre-season. However, what I've seen and look at the stats, he takes way too many shots for the limited minutes he has played. He hardly goes for any rebounds. He played 36 minutes tonight and had ZERO rebounds. He's a rookie and he will learn this is a Kings system because it is a TEAM concept first.

 

[ParniValjak]

Yeah but its preseason so its o.k, hope he is calm during the regular season

The point is that if he doesn't calm down during the pre-season he is not going to get any minutes during the regular season.

Garcia has a lot more to his game than just shooting. In his college years he was not a selfish player but he is playing like one at the moment. Adelman himself said that Garcia can bring a lot more than just shooting. He doesn't mind Garcia shooting the 3 because he can shot it well but he doesn't want him to fall in love with it and take it out of context of the offence.

This team is built around unselfishness and if one rookie comes in thinking he is god's gift to basketball, I can guarantee you he will ride the pine until he learns that this team's offence is built around passing and team work. He sure as hell isn't showing that in the pre-season. If he wants minutes during the regular season then he needs to show it during the pre-season. What he has shown so far in the pre-season is that he loves to shoot a 3, is trigger happy and takes a lot of his shots out of flow of the offence. That sort of play gets you benched in regular season and leaves you off the play off roster. Simple as that.

 

[ParniValjak]

Coaches tell him to shoot the ball.

I am sure they do but only when the shot is there for him to take rather than taking it with 20 second on the clock, with hand in his face, no one down low to rebound, and better options else where.

The kid can shoot and converts a lot of his shots when they are in the flow of the offence and he has his feet set. When he gets into his trigger happy moods then he is as valuable as half eaten mars bar.

 

[VF21]

The shots that he took today were pretty wide open and within the offense if you saw the game or not... Those were all good shots but they just didnt go in.

Nope. Wrong.

I watched the whole entire game. Garcia took shots that were WAY TOO QUICK. He kept the ball way too many times, trying to create something and then passed it at the last second when it was pretty much too late for anyone else to do anything but lob up a brick, AND he pretty much ignored open teammates several times.

It isn't about how he played in college and it isn't about he'll do better by the regular season. That's just making excuses.

He isn't in college any longer. He's on the Sacramento Kings. He needs to forget about ME and start thinking about TEAM.

 

[Kings241]

Garcia hasn't impressed me at all. Yea, I know, its just pre-season. However, what I've seen and look at the stats, he takes way too many shots for the limited minutes he has played. He hardly goes for any rebounds. He played 36 minutes tonight and had ZERO rebounds. He's a rookie and he will learn this is a Kings system because it is a TEAM concept first.

I have to point one thing though. Garcia has been doing better then Martin if you look at it statswise throughout the preaseason. Martin is averaging 6.8 ppg along with 1 assist and 4 rebounds in 21 minutes of action per game so far in this preseason.

Garcia is averaging 9.4 ppg along with 1.2 assists and 2.6 rebounds per game in 20 minutes of playing time during this preseason.

So if your not impressed by Garcia then you shouldnt be impressed with Martin either.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Honestly folks are making too much out of Garcia's play. I have been critical beceause it's my nature and frankly what preseason is all about, but in reality given the roster and Adleman's history/pattern of playing the bench, Franciso is not likley to see much more court time this year than Kevin Martin saw last year. His mistakes though glaring are fairly typical rookie moves that will work out in practice and limited minuets. The kid has good fundementals, hustle and tallent and he will be fine down the road, but for the time being Cisco fans don't get too upset with those who point out his short commings.

 

[VF21]

I have to point one thing though. Garcia has been doing better then Martin if you look at it statswise throughout the preaseason. Martin is averaging 6.8 ppg along with 1 assist and 4 rebounds in 21 minutes of action per game so far in this preseason.

Garcia is averaging 9.4 ppg along with 1.2 assists and 2.6 rebounds per game in 20 minutes of playing time during this preseason.

So if your not impressed by Garcia then you shouldnt be impressed with Martin either.

And, once again, someone has to try and make Garcia look good by pointing out Kevin's lower stats.

Well, check it out. Tonight Kevin had 15 points, 9 rebounds, 1 assist and 5 steals. THAT is good, fundamental basketball. And yes, Kevin made some mistakes, too.

The point you're simply not seeing is that most of us aren't expecting too much from Garcia right away. It's not like he was a #1 draft pick. He's raw and he need to learn. And I'm sure he will...IN TIME.

What gets me really irritated is when people act like Garcia is the next LeBron James or Kevin Garnett... he's not. He has talent and he has potential BUT he's not going to be the ROY and he's not going to be picked for the All-Star team this year.

All I'd like to see is his biggest fans be a little more realistic.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Jamal Sampson
Luke Schenscher

Huh?

Well, sure he does, but saying that someone who was nailed to the bench in Milwaukee and Los Angeles, and could barely even get off the bench on an expansion team has more experience than a rookie is hardly fair...
Based on what?

First of all what we are really doiing is comparing Grimlins to Pacers (cars) here NEITHER of these guys are impressive in any way.

Size based on muscle and weight not hight. (If you see the two standing next to each other you will see what I mean)

Experience... yup you got it compleet bench materal as opposed hoping to become bench materal.

Sampson while no great shot blocker did snuff a pass/shot tonight

If you want to give Luke the edge over Samson I won't agree but I also am not sure it's really worth arguing over either.

BTW One of the reasons I'd like to see Luke not kept on the Kings roster is that I WOULD like to see him kept on pay roll and sent to the CBA for developemt. If he put some weight on and got some CBA time who knows he might be a keeper next year and how often to you get a 7'2" guy? Samson on the other hand probably will not get much better and may not be worth any investment. The sad truth is that the Kings will mostlike have to let a tallented PG (FLores or Price) go beceause they don't need 4 and will probably keep either Luke or Jamal beceause the prety much have to have a 3rd Center.

 

[Rockin' in the Free World]

I'd just like to see each one play. But apparently that's a little too much to ask from Adelman even in the preseason.

Willing to rescind that if they get just 10-15 mins next game or two. Then it'll be time to talk about which one should get a spot. Of course, bottom line is Skinner is playing like an absolute stud right now so until he gets hurt (which he will)no big man is gonna see the light of day. We probably won't see whoever does get that roster spot in a regular season game until december or later. *any takers on when Skinner gets hurt?*

 

[Diabeticwonder]

The box score on espn.com states that 4,000 were at the game. As far as the whole Garcia discussions goes...I'm in the camp of being impressed by his abilities so far. He took a ton of shots tonight and a lot of those were taken too quick. However, he did show a good penchant for getting to the line tonight and his ability to get to the rim has exceeded my expectations for him with respect to that part of his game. I don't think that he has entrenched himself into the backup SF that he would like to become or as Martin has done at SG, but he has shown that he has the ability to be a very good contributor off the bench and depending on the opponent it will either be him or Corliss who gives Peja his first breather. However, he has to learn patience and the system a little more and he will. I don't have any fears that he's going Cat Mobley on us all or he's going to be Darick I Have To Shoot Every Time I Touch The Ball Martin. When he's on the court in the regular season he'll have many more options with him than he did tonight. When he was out there with Sandrin, Sampson and Flores I couldn't help but defend his shot selections since both Sandrin and Sampson looked completely lost at times.

 

[piksi]

But in a real game I'd sooner see Corless ply the 5 than either of them and you KNOW how I feel about small ball.

damn - that bad ?

 

[owensborocard32]

I'm not concerned with Cisco. I know he's a rook and yes, he's putting up alot of shots. Most of them are too quick but he's learning just like every other rookie entering the league. Cisco just happens to be a little less shy than the rest. He can do so much more than shoot and score and i think he needs to concentrate more on doing just that. He has NEVER been a selfish player so i am sure it's just something he's trying to adjust to. At Louisville, he was the man counted on for scoring and still managed to set the school record for assists in a game. He'll be fine, just give him time. If he wasn't doing some of the things he's doing, we'd be wanting him to be more aggresive. He did manage to get to the free throw line quite a bit last night and his shot simply wasn't falling. It's only preseason and yes, he'll do alot of learning from the bench this season.

 

[Kings113]

Sorry, but I sure don't share your enthusiasm about Sampson whatsoever. I haven't been impressed in the least with what he's done... Defended the paint? Against what? Rust????? I certainly don't recall seeing anything spectacular and I did the PBP, so my eyes were pretty much on the TV most of the time.

Because Sampson's barely played. He's played a total of like 10 minutes, but when he's been in he's literally only been able to do a few good things (boards and a couple blocks, a basket). Yes he did defend the paint pretty well for when he was in, obviously wasn't spectacular (doesn't necessarily have to be), but he was down there and stayed down around there while he was in and guarded it.

On Sampson/Luke. Sampson > Luke, not a rookie, and he put up nice numbers and playing well in limited minutes with the Bobcats last year (doesn't matter if it was on a bad team, he'd get similar minutes here, or just a bit less). Is more athletic also, and has an NBA body. So far with us Sampson's barely got to play, and Luke hasn't at all yet but like, 3-5 minutes.