Summer League Impressions (other than Kings)

2

206Fan

All-Star
#31
#31
Kingster said:
Very odd. I wonder why?
Click to expand...
Right now it's the Orlando SL going on. Completely separate from the Vegas SL, and they're using it to evaluate UFAs and other guys. The competition in the Orlando SL is also weaker than the regular SL. No real reason to put DSJ out there against inferior competition.

As a matter of fact, Mavs' current Orlando SL roster doesn't even have Yogi Ferrell, Dorian Finney-Smith, or Nicolas Brussino. However, the Vegas SL will feature them. I guess in short, Orlando SL is pretty much irrelevant. Probably why the Kings have never attended.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#33
#33
Jazz vs Celtics: Donovan vs Fultz tonight on NBA TV! The #1 pick in the NBA draft get ready for your beatdown ;)

Relating this back to the Kings, there is something tangible about guys physically mature versus not there. I would not be surprised if Mason outplays Fox early on in the Summer League based on strength and experience factor. What I want to see with Fox is how does he handle the strength and physicality of the opponent when he goes up against guys who are going to try to bully him? I think Mason welcomes this. Fox is hardly timid but his frame is so slight right now. Fox dominated Lonzo in the NCAAs but Lonzo is hardly physical. Fox is going to have to use his blazing speed so when players try to get up on him he just blows by them before he can be touched.

Mason is more equipped to handle the physicality of the league. The same goes for Donovan. Fultz has a the frame to play the PG or SG but Donovan is another level. On one end it will be interesting to see if Donovan continues to show PG skills. On the other end it will be interesting to see if Fultz can score and make plays against a great defender.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#34
#34
Blob said:
Jazz vs Celtics: Donovan vs Fultz tonight on NBA TV! The #1 pick in the NBA draft get ready for your beatdown ;)

Relating this back to the Kings, there is something tangible about guys physically mature versus not there. I would not be surprised if Mason outplays Fox early on in the Summer League based on strength and experience factor. What I want to see with Fox is how does he handle the strength and physicality of the opponent when he goes up against guys who are going to try to bully him? I think Mason welcomes this. Fox is hardly timid but his frame is so slight right now. Fox dominated Lonzo in the NCAAs but Lonzo is hardly physical. Fox is going to have to use his blazing speed so when players try to get up on him he just blows by them before he can be touched.

Mason is more equipped to handle the physicality of the league. The same goes for Donovan. Fultz has a the frame to play the PG or SG but Donovan is another level. On one end it will be interesting to see if Donovan continues to show PG skills. On the other end it will be interesting to see if Fultz can score and make plays against a great defender.
Click to expand...
Wish we would've taken Donovan at #10. Unfortunately he just didn't fit our roster at that point. I'm with you though, I think he's gonna be a really good player.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#35
#35
roasthawg said:
Wish we would've taken Donovan at #10. Unfortunately he just didn't fit our roster at that point. I'm with you though, I think he's gonna be a really good player.
Click to expand...
On draft night I was pumped when Tatum was called at 4. I figured that meant Fox at #5 and Markkanen at #10 or Jackson at #5 and Mitchell at #10.

I'm happy with how things worked out though.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#36
#36
funkykingston said:
On draft night I was pumped when Tatum was called at 4. I figured that meant Fox at #5 and Markkanen at #10 or Jackson at #5 and Mitchell at #10.

I'm happy with how things worked out though.
Click to expand...
Jackson and five and dsj at ten was my dream scenario. Jackson/Mitchell would've been beautiful. Fox and Jackson/Giles looks great too... We were in a really good position in this draft.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#37
#37
Blob said:
Jazz vs Celtics: Donovan vs Fultz tonight on NBA TV! The #1 pick in the NBA draft get ready for your beatdown ;)

Relating this back to the Kings, there is something tangible about guys physically mature versus not there. I would not be surprised if Mason outplays Fox early on in the Summer League based on strength and experience factor. What I want to see with Fox is how does he handle the strength and physicality of the opponent when he goes up against guys who are going to try to bully him? I think Mason welcomes this. Fox is hardly timid but his frame is so slight right now. Fox dominated Lonzo in the NCAAs but Lonzo is hardly physical. Fox is going to have to use his blazing speed so when players try to get up on him he just blows by them before he can be touched.

Mason is more equipped to handle the physicality of the league. The same goes for Donovan. Fultz has a the frame to play the PG or SG but Donovan is another level. On one end it will be interesting to see if Donovan continues to show PG skills. On the other end it will be interesting to see if Fultz can score and make plays against a great defender.
Click to expand...
Fox's frame is way too light right now. One thing we all have to accept is that despite his height, Fox will always be a smaller PG in the NBA. This is why I never ever for the life of me, understood the John Wall comparisons. People say Fox is more athletic than Wall, but people forget the part where Wall was doing everything Fox did at Kentucky, but at 26lbs heavier! Wall's overall frame is also bigger at 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan vs. Fox's 6'3 and 6'6 wingspan.

With Fox, the only thing matters to me is his 3pt shot in the SL. I want to see whether or not he's comfortable taking that shot, and if he'll avoid it at all. I've seen him avoid the 3pt a lot at Kentucky. He can't do that in the NBA.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#38
#38
I'm less excited about seeing the rookies and more excited about seeing the second year guys. Rookies struggle but a lot of good players made a big jump in their second NBA season. Hoping some of our guys do that this year.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#39
#39
206Fan said:
Fox's frame is way too light right now. One thing we all have to accept is that despite his height, Fox will always be a smaller PG in the NBA. This is why I never ever for the life of me, understood the John Wall comparisons. People say Fox is more athletic than Wall, but people forget the part where Wall was doing everything Fox did at Kentucky, but at 26lbs heavier! Wall's overall frame is also bigger at 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan vs. Fox's 6'3 and 6'6 wingspan.

With Fox, the only thing matters to me is his 3pt shot in the SL. I want to see whether or not he's comfortable taking that shot, and if he'll avoid it at all. I've seen him avoid the 3pt a lot at Kentucky. He can't do that in the NBA.
Click to expand...
His three point shot is actually the last thing that I care about. His form is not broke it will go in once he gets his confidence and reps. I want to see how Fox runs the team. I want to see if he is able to get to spots on floor he wants and deal with the strength and physicality of opponent. I want to see how he gets over picks and cuts off dribble penetration. I want to see if he shies away or initiates contact.

My expectation is he is going to use his speed to get wherever he wants to go and throwing lob passses and dimes and finishing at the rim with relentless energy. :)

Certainly I expect more from him than what I have seen of Fultz. Look at this guy. He looks asleep! He's not ready to run a team in the NBA. He has no command of the game. He's SG with pretty good handles and zero leadership. If I am a 76er fan I am disappointed. And I certainly hope Simmons has more instincts to play the PG than Fultz.

Donovan is not making his shot tonight. But I think this guy is a spectacular prospect. He has some Westbrook to his game.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#42
#42
jcwkings said:
Papa looks much leaner in the clips I have seen even from the end of season, let alone 12 months ago.
Click to expand...
Was just about to post this. Just watched the Mini Camp Highlights and it's actually amazing how different he looks from this point last season. Dude looks like he's in monster shape, gotten fully gotten rid of that pot belly he had last year, and added some muscle.
 
NewArena

NewArena

All-Star
#43
#43
Eh, I wouldn't put so much stock into summer league. Still pretty meaningless, especially to be reordering the draft selections already lol

Tatum and his shot selection definitely didn't impress me so far though.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#44
#44
I have no idea if Fox's frame can handle a lot of minutes early in his career, but I sure like the the security blanket of having Hill there to take off some of the load if need be.

Overall, I've been very impressed with the talent that's out there, especially the guys that were picked in the top 10. Tatum looks like a can't miss, Fultz looks like he has a lot to work with, though I wonder about how he combats the pressure of early expectations (His downcast looks after not making some shots doesn't bode well). Isaac looks kind of like I thought - a project that could take a few years; maybe he's worth the wait though. Leaf looks like an NBA player, but you won't see it early on imo. Mitchell looks good; I like the way he carries himself as well as his athleticism and his shot; good for Utah, they need some good news.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#45
#45
Tatum looked good again. Another guy who has looked good is Bam Adebayo. Might be exceeding expectations.

But the most interesting non-rookie so far is Dante Exxum. His outside shot looks good. This is relevant to Sac as there is a good chance that Fox takes as long to blossom.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#46
#46
dude12 said:
Tatum looked good again. Another guy who has looked good is Bam Adebayo. Might be exceeding expectations.

But the most interesting non-rookie so far is Dante Exxum. His outside shot looks good. This is relevant to Sac as there is a good chance that Fox takes as long to blossom.
Click to expand...
Maybe that is why Utah is okay with letting Hill go, they are seeing improvement in Exum.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#48
#48
I agree with the Fultz part, unathletic tweener with no motor who can't get to the rim. Not impressive for the hype.


I'm preparing myself for Mason III maybe coming out of the gate a little stronger than Fox. Just more mature. 23 already, might be more ready. Wonder if D'Aaron would be relegated to third string during the season in such a case? Ideally you'd want your 5 pick getting reps regardless
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#49
#49
dude12 said:
Tatum looked good again. Another guy who has looked good is Bam Adebayo. Might be exceeding expectations.

But the most interesting non-rookie so far is Dante Exxum. His outside shot looks good. This is relevant to Sac as there is a good chance that Fox takes as long to blossom.
Click to expand...
It has taken longer for Exum to "blossom" because of his ACL. I wouldn't draw a parallel between him and Fox. Fox has more natural instincts as a scorer. Tatum looks pretty good because he is making his shots. Those easy shots are going to dry up against better competition. I am not taking anything away from him but broadcasters are falling over themselves with praise. It's overdone and unjustified. If he is not scoring he's not going to give you much. He did make a nice left handed pass on the move yesterday which is one of the few plays he made that impressed me.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#50
#50
Blob said:
It has taken longer for Exum to "blossom" because of his ACL. I wouldn't draw a parallel between him and Fox. Fox has more natural instincts as a scorer. Tatum looks pretty good because he is making his shots. Those easy shots are going to dry up against better competition. I am not taking anything away from him but broadcasters are falling over themselves with praise. It's overdone and unjustified. If he is not scoring he's not going to give you much. He did make a nice left handed pass on the move yesterday which is one of the few plays he made that impressed me.
Click to expand...
I especially like the part where you write "I am not taking anything away from him......" Lol.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#51
#51
Kingsfan23 said:
I agree with the Fultz part, unathletic tweener with no motor who can't get to the rim. Not impressive for the hype.


I'm preparing myself for Mason III maybe coming out of the gate a little stronger than Fox. Just more mature. 23 already, might be more ready. Wonder if D'Aaron would be relegated to third string during the season in such a case? Ideally you'd want your 5 pick getting reps regardless
Click to expand...
Fultz reminds me of D'Angelo. Both have ton of confidence in ability to score. Both bring the ball up the court makes the first pass. Then relocate to the wing to get the ball back and shoot. The team sputters offensively with both of them running the show. Fultz is not interested in running an offense and getting teammates involved. I don't know if this is an attribute you develop. I think you either have that "unselfish gene" or you do not. I think this is what Ainge saw in Fultz and this is why he traded down. He didn't want another SG. I watched Tyreke for those 3 to 4 years and this was the deal with him. He was playing PG and did his best but it did not come naturally to him. Orchestrating the offense was not conducive to his scorer's mentality or passive personality. Same with Fultz. He will average 20 PPG before he gets anywhere near 10 APG.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#53
#53
Blob said:
Fultz reminds me of D'Angelo. Both have ton of confidence in ability to score. Both bring the ball up the court makes the first pass. Then relocate to the wing to get the ball back and shoot. The team sputters offensively with both of them running the show. Fultz is not interested in running an offense and getting teammates involved. I don't know if this is an attribute you develop. I think you either have that "unselfish gene" or you do not. I think this is what Ainge saw in Fultz and this is why he traded down. He didn't want another SG. I watched Tyreke for those 3 to 4 years and this was the deal with him. He was playing PG and did his best but it did not come naturally to him. Orchestrating the offense was not conducive to his scorer's mentality or passive personality. Same with Fultz. He will average 20 PPG before he gets anywhere near 10 APG.
Click to expand...
I feel like racking up assists in Summer League is a lot tougher than getting points since you and your team have only had a few practices together. Takes longer than that to know more than just a handful of plays and to be able to trust where your teammates are going to be at any point in time.

Plus there's a lot more 20 point scorers than there are 10 assist men so that's not really that bold of a prediction. Either way you could be right, he could just be a score first guy who can't make more than the occasional play but it's going to take more than a couple summer league games with a bunch of random non NBA players to be able to accurately predict that.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#54
#54
ESP47 said:
I feel like racking up assists in Summer League is a lot tougher than getting points since you and your team have only had a few practices together. Takes longer than that to know more than just a handful of plays and to be able to trust where your teammates are going to be at any point in time.

Plus there's a lot more 20 point scorers than there are 10 assist men so that's not really that bold of a prediction. Either way you could be right, he could just be a score first guy who can't make more than the occasional play but it's going to take more than a couple summer league games with a bunch of random non NBA players to be able to accurately predict that.
Click to expand...
I am not necessarily paying attention to number of assists he gets or doesn't get. I am basing my assessment on the way he prefers to play. Fultz has that Russell / Tyreke vibe where he was playing PG in position only. You never get the feeling he is running the team. They are pretty rudderless with him at helm. And this is not just Summer League impressions but how he was in college. Regardless it could be Simmons and Fultz develop a nice repertoire because from what I recall Simmons was often guilty of over-passing. Opponents would dare him to shoot and he wouldn't. So that could be a complementary duo.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#55
#55
ESP47 said:
I feel like racking up assists in Summer League is a lot tougher than getting points since you and your team have only had a few practices together. Takes longer than that to know more than just a handful of plays and to be able to trust where your teammates are going to be at any point in time.

Plus there's a lot more 20 point scorers than there are 10 assist men so that's not really that bold of a prediction. Either way you could be right, he could just be a score first guy who can't make more than the occasional play but it's going to take more than a couple summer league games with a bunch of random non NBA players to be able to accurately predict that.
Click to expand...
More than that, the Sixers are committed to letting Simmons play PG. If that works out then Fultz's role is to stretch the floor, be a secondary scorer to Embiid, and play defense. Any playmaking is an added bonus.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#58
#58
Luke Kennard has looked very good in SL. Doesn't look like he's missed a step at all from Duke. Looks very comfortable with the ball in his hands when asked to create. Has some dribble escape moves tucked in his pocket. I don't think there's any way he busts in the NBA. At the very least, he's a floor spacer with high IQ.

On another note, Henry Ellenson is such a frustrating player :mad:. Guy has all the talents in the world to be a very very good NBA PF, but he just can't put it together. Reminds me of Stauskas in this sense.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#59
#59
kingsfan1984 said:
Blob is going to be tough for some to handle after watching Mitchel D up and pick Tatum then follow it up with putting Tatum on his backside to a no look dunk.
Click to expand...
He got punked hard! LOL And not just on the play you reference. Just before Donovan stripped Tatum at top of the key taking it away the ball like taking candy from a baby and Tatum had to make an intentional foul (which should have been clear path or technical) to prevent another vicious breakaway jam! All my concerns on Tatum were exemplified. When he's not scoring what is he giving you? Zippo! Donovan only made 3 out of 9 FGs but was instrumental in the outcome. Those are the players that I want on my team and scout for. What is your impact when your shot is not falling? Imagine when he starts nailing his shot.... Lillard 2.o! :) Actually Lillard doesn't play defense and Donovan can be one of the best defenders in the league.

Tatum had 5 inches on Donovan and couldn't do anything. He got a layup on a switch that Jazz messed up otherwise he got completely shut down when tested. Worse was the timidity when the intensity of the game was raised. Donovan was saying "bring it" and Tatum demurred like Lonzo vs Fox in the NCAAs... Weak! I can guarantee if Donovan got up in the grill of Jackson the way he did on Tatum, steam would have coming out of Jackson's ear holes and he would match fire with fire. Jackson is a ferocious competitor. Tatum is pussycat. In one of the biggest possessions Tatum resorted to a fadeaway from above the free throw line. That's a terrible shot with about 20-30% FG success rate across all player. And this is why his selection ahead of Isaac and Jackson was so mystifying to me....A prospect whose best skill is scoring fades away on his shot to score. Wow! Ainge is going to regret this one! Tatum is also slow and passive in transition D and passive going into the paint to battle for boards.

Tatum better turn into a Ray Allen-esque level shooter or I am smelling bust! Donovan on other hand has All-Star caliber potential and teams that took Monk, Smith and Frank N are likely going to regret their decision. Donovan has to get better at jumping off one foot instead of resorting to two foot jumps. When you collect yourself to go off two feet when you don't need to, the defense can recover. Other than that and gaining more confidence in his shot, he's going to be very good, who can impact every game whether his shot is on or not. I see his floor as Marcus Smart, but he much better mechanics and release on his shot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.