State of the Kings:

[bajaden]

This is probably a little early for this, and things could change dramaticly in the next 20 or so games. However, my gut tells me that for the most part, its going to be more of the same, unless some changes are made. So rather than criticize one individual, I thought I'd just lay out the facts as I see them right now.

This is a team made up, for whatever reason, of ill fitting parts. No shock to anyone thats paying attention. So rather than review what we have, lets look at what we should have and see how that compares. First we have to decide on who were going to build around. Who is the best player on the team? Who has the potential to be an annual all star? Which player appears to be the one guy that can put the team on his back and carry it across the finish line?

Only one player leaps to my mind and thats DeMarcus Cousins. So if we can agree on that, then who should we surround him with, and what style of offense best uses his particular talents? Well, without naming names, and just referring to type and style, I think he needs a PG, (preferably, at least 6'1") that number one, can get the ball to him in the right place and at the right time. A PG that can attract the defense to him or break down the defense and dish. And, a PG that can shoot the ball efficently when open, and who thinks pass first. Yeah, a Steve Nash, John Stockton type would be just fine. A player that can average 12/14 PPG, and 7 to 9 assists a game.

At SG, (preferably,at least 6'4") we would need a guard that can first of all, shoot the ball in order to open up and spread the floor. A guard that is a capable passer, and defender. A guard capable of picking up the offense if needed, or perhaps being the second option on the team offensively. A player that can average 15/16 PPG, and on occasion give you 20 plus, but still be a complimentry player. Sort of a Scottie Pippin to Michael Jordan type of thing. And important player that realizes that he's not the most important player.

At SF (preferably, at least 6'8") we need a similiar player as our SG, but with more emphasis on defense. Someone capable of giving us good weakside defense in the post, and good defense on the perimeter. He needs to be at mininum, a 5 rebound a game guy, and also have the capability of hitting an open spot up shot. Once again, he needs to be a capable passer. Someone that can score 10 to 15 PPG efficently, without anyone noticing. Take a little bit of Artest and combine it with a little bit of Peja. Yeah, I know it doesn't grow on trees.

At PF(preferably at least 6'10") we need a player that can score in the post a little, and hit the 15 foot shot. He needs to be an aggressive rebounder, and a good post, help,and isolation defender. He also needs to be a good passer. Someone that can quietly score 10 PPG, and grab 8 boards a game. Preferably defensive rebounds! Think Maurice Lucas, if any of you can remember him. He was the yang part of the Walton/Lucas combination.

Of course at center we would have Cousins. Off the bench, and I perfer an 8 or 9 man rotation, I perfer a change of pace PG that can come in, push the ball, play good defense, and score. I like either a scoring SF or SG off the bench. Someone capable of putting up 15/18 points a game off the bench. I perfer my bench big men to be more defensive and rebounding types, that do most of their scoring off of what the perimeter players do. Their job is go in and hold down the fort for 15 MPG. If one or both can score a little, great, but mostly I want defense and rebounding and leave the scoring in the second unit up to the perimeter players.

Now thats what I would want, and I'm sure everyone has their own ideas that probably differ from mine. But I don't think the current team reflects what I would want, except for a few players. Finally, from reading some of the posts, I think there are some misconceptions about certain players numbers and accomplishments. Which I'll see if I can squeeze into this post. I want to compare last yr's stats with this yr's stats on certain players.

I. Thomas: Last year: 25:30 MPG - 8.8 shots per game - 44.8% FGP - 37.9% 3PP - 11.5 PPG - 4.1 APG - 2.0 TO
I. Thomas: This year: 24:06 MPG - 9.2 shots per game - 45.5% FGP - 42.3% 3PP - 11.7 PPG - 1.5 APG

M. Thornton: Last year: 34:53 MPG - 15.7 shots per game - 43.8% FGP - 34.5% 3PP 18.7 PPG - 1.9 APG - 1.6 TO
M. Thornton: This year: 31:11 MPG - 15.5 shots per game - 40.9% FGP - 27.0% 3PP 16.7 PPG - 2.3 APG - 0.2 TO

T. Evans: Last year: 34.17 MPG - 14.3 shots per game - 45.3% FGP - 20.2% 3PP - 16.5 PPG - 4.5 APG - 2.7 TO - 4.6 RPG
T. Evans: This year: 34:30 MPG - 12.5 shots per game - 36.0% FGP - 12.5% 3PP - 11.8 PPG - 3.2 APG - 2.2 TO - 6.7 RPG

A. Brooks: This year: 21:18 MPG - 8.5 shots per game - 33.3% FGP - 28.6% 3PP - 6.8 PPG - 2.0 APG - 0.7 TO

J. Fredette: Last year: 18:36 MPG - 7.3 shots per game - 38.6% FGP - 36.1% 3PP - 7.6 PPG - 1.8 APG - 1.1 TO
J. Fredette: This year: 7:30 MPG - 3.2 shots per game - 56.3% FGP - 40.0 3PP - 5.0 PPG - 0.6 APG - 0.4 TO

Here are the 3pt percentages of any other players that are likely to take a 3pt shot.

Garcia: 33.3%
Outlaw: 00.0%
Johnson: 00.0%

If you look at just the scoring you'll notice that only two players are scoring the ball better than last season. I. Thomas and J. Fredette. Everyone else is underaccheiving. Tyreke's shooting percentages overall are terrible. Only two players are shooting over 40% from the three, and only three players are over 30%. You tell me, if your the other team, whats your defense going to look like? I'm going to pack the post to defend agains Cousins having a big game, and make the perimeter players beat me.

Now this is just a small sampling for this year, but the problem is, we weren't much better last year. We took a lot of shots, and scored a lot of points, but we wern't efficient while doing it. Tyreke isn't going to suddenly turn into an efficient scorer. Thornton is a persistent and volume shooter, but his 3 pt percentage is average at best.

The problem is, this team is made up of for the most part, with average to below average players in some capacity. If they can defend, they can't shoot. If they can shoot, they can't defend. There are few players on this team that have an all around game. Now I expect Brooks to shoot the ball better, and he should be a nice addition. But if your were drafting a team, I doubt that players like Garcia and Outlaw would be at the top of you list. No offense to them, but they should be the last player at the end of the bench on a good team.

This team is in dire need of good shooters. Without them, Cousins job is going to be a lot tougher. Why did we make no attempt to sign or trade for a solid, proven, perimeter shooter? Never mind, I know why!

 

[tyreeeke]

This team has a top 5 shooter in the NBA, IMO. That same player can run the pick and roll and offense quite efficiently if given the opportunity.

 

[sdballer]

This team has a top 5 shooter in the NBA, IMO. That same player can run the pick and roll and offense quite efficiently if given the opportunity.

Just stop Mrs Fredette. We get it, you like your son.

 

[UK_King]

This team has a top 5 shooter in the NBA, IMO. That same player can run the pick and roll and offense quite efficiently if given the opportunity.

to amuse myself i pretended he was talking about Travis Outlaw.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Just stop Mrs Fredette. We get it, you like your son.

lol

 

[Gilles]

Team sorely lacks natural catch-and-shoot players. IT, Fredette and Garcia are the only ones who are good at this and you don't want 2 of those to feature outside of blowouts. For everybody else the first thought is to put the ball on the floor or hold it for a moment or two. Klay Thompson would look absolutely fantastic despite below average defense. Tyreke actually looked good in catch-and-shoot situations relative to his overall shooting ability, of course.

 

[baller13]

Jimmer could possibly be a top 5 shooter in the NBA. Only problem is that he is a solid top 300 defender.

 

[SacTownKid]

Top 6 offense dude, top 6!

Seriously though, this team needs to find a balance here. Playing up tempo which is Smarts preference I'm sure will do nothing but destroy the defense that has been very real with Evans, Johnson, and Hayes leading the way. I think what this team is or will be will start to shine through, my prediction is Tyreke is moved to fill that hole at SF. This team has no idea seemingly of how to use Tyreke and maybe with Cousins as your top guy there isn't one. They have zero chemistry together, either by design or just by happenstance. More time is needed for sure.

This team doesn't have below level talent at any position really, it's just that they don't fit seamlessly and this coach thinks that the answer is to put in entire groups of players that can either really shoot but can't defend, or the exact opposite. There's even less balance in some of the rotations he uses. As for size, not really if players play in their natural positions although it's tough when all of your shooters play PG/SG for sure.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

as good as JJ is on the defensive side of the ball, this team would look SO MUCH different with a SF that can hit the 3. wish we had one. Gallinari would be nice.

 

[DesertFox]

Jimmer could really work next to Reke and JJ. The problem with that even in that perfect situation (next to 2 defenders who can handle/pass), he still isn't an upgrade on Brooks or IT.

 

[hrdboild]

First things first, this team needs some kind of identity. We have a collection of players of various talents in search of a system which allows them to play together as a team. Paul Westphal, for all his faults, at least had the team on the same page. That meant a lot of junk offense -- clear out isolation plays and some attempts at a high post passing game. At times it looked like the team was coming together but he was so bad at managing player egos that he wrote his own ticket out of town.

Smart, in his time as head coach so far, looks like he can't make up his mind what type of offense he wants to run. He has tried Tyreke at PG with Salmons and Outlaw spacing the floor (with predictable results), he tried an up-tempo smallball lineup with Thomas, Thornton, and Evans in the backcourt which scored in bunches but gave up even more on the other end. He tried pounding it inside to Cousins and Thompson with guards rotating off the ball. Nothing has stuck long enough for the players to get comfortable in their roles. And some of those roles (Tyreke off the ball, Jimmer running plays, Johnson slashing to the hoop) are so antithetical to the players involved that it's no surprise they're not getting results.

And I know I already said this at the end of last season so I'm just repeating myself here, but everything has to come from the top down. This is a team comprised of young players. Cousins wants to be a leader but he's too easily frustrated and loses focus in critical moments right now. Evans, as good as he can be at times, has consistently shied away from a leadership role. Thomas and Thornton are the two key players for us who are vocal enough to keep everyone involved which is why they've seen their roles grow in their time with the Kings, but neither one is capable of leading the team on the floor. We've gone as far as they can take us I think.

The way forward here is to define the character of the team and then find players who fit that character. Is it going to be a tough defensive team who plays half-court sets? Is it going to be an up-tempo running team who forces turnovers and converts them into points? Is it going to be an inside-out offense built to cater to Cousins' strengths? Whatever it is, the GM and coach have to be on the same page and they have to communicate that direction clearly to the team. That's just not happening. And everything else that is going on stems from that. Is Tyreke coming back next year? Is Cousins capable of leading the team? Do we need a playmaker at PG or can we continue to get by with our collection of combo guards? I'm not getting a clear answer on any of these questions right now and as a result the team is basically in limbo until the next interim coach comes in and tries to put their stamp on things.

And the really unfortunate part of the whole situation (and the reason I'm looking at Petrie right now as the biggest problem) is that we've allowed this mishmash of coaching styles to influence our personnel decisions. If we had a consistent vision of where we want to go we would be drafting players who make sense together; targeting players for trades who fill holes in our roster. We let Westphal dictate the Jimmer/Salmons deal and then we fire him months later. Smart comes in with a new direction and we go with a talent pick (Robinson) who fixes none of our problems and is soon made redundant by re-signing Thompson. Meanwhile nothing is done to fix the SF position, and the fractious trio of scoring guards (Thomas/Thornton/Evans) is given another season to (not) figure it out amongst themselves with the most talented of the three told he's not being extended and he'll have to play out of position again. We're going in every direction at once and getting nowhere and that can't all be pinned on the coach.

 

[rexb_kings]

These were the same posts 2-3 years ago. Kings have mismatching players etc that's just complete !#$%%. It's the culture and attitude being showed by the Owners, top managers down to coaching staff to players. Kings owners sucks and it shows down to players. Kings have good talent but somehow the atmosphere and environment at Kings camp isn't conducive to breed better players. Good talent doesn't grow to great talent but declines.

Actually, if Kings have better coaching that might cover up the "suckiness" of the owners. I still believe the Kings have a pretty good bunch of players, just need that coach to bring them together and have them play to their potential and more. If Adelman will be coaching this current Kings roster, they might be a playoff team (8 seed at least), look the the TWolves without Love and Rubio, or Rockets with a bunch of new players. Or even the Nuggets with bunch of SF logjam, but the coach is able to coach them and play. Even the Warriors to me are better coached than the Kings. Too bad the Kings owners just sucks and can't get even one of the premiere coaches out there. (Sloan, Van Gundy's , McMillan etc..)

 

[VF21]

This team has a top 5 shooter in the NBA, IMO. That same player can run the pick and roll and offense quite efficiently if given the opportunity.

Good grief. Even I, the ultimate and eternal Kevin Martin homer, wasn't that bad back in the day. (I hope...)

 

[mac]

Our problem is our shooters can't defend and our defenders can't shoot. You replace JJ or Tyreke with Thornton and we go right back to bottom 5 in defense. That's on Petrie. Next problem is that we're not helping our cause by enforcing proper spacing. That's on Smart and the players.

But you know what I really can't stand? We just got blown out by the Lakers. And in garbage time of said blow out game, I essentially the saw the same lineups that we see on a nightly basis when we're actually trying to win.

 

[Kingster]

This is probably a little early for this, and things could change dramaticly in the next 20 or so games. However, my gut tells me that for the most part, its going to be more of the same, unless some changes are made. So rather than criticize one individual, I thought I'd just lay out the facts as I see them right now.

This is a team made up, for whatever reason, of ill fitting parts. No shock to anyone thats paying attention. So rather than review what we have, lets look at what we should have and see how that compares. First we have to decide on who were going to build around. Who is the best player on the team? Who has the potential to be an annual all star? Which player appears to be the one guy that can put the team on his back and carry it across the finish line?

Only one player leaps to my mind and thats DeMarcus Cousins. So if we can agree on that, then who should we surround him with, and what style of offense best uses his particular talents? Well, without naming names, and just referring to type and style, I think he needs a PG, (preferably, at least 6'1") that number one, can get the ball to him in the right place and at the right time. A PG that can attract the defense to him or break down the defense and dish. And, a PG that can shoot the ball efficently when open, and who thinks pass first. Yeah, a Steve Nash, John Stockton type would be just fine. A player that can average 12/14 PPG, and 7 to 9 assists a game.

At SG, (preferably,at least 6'4") we would need a guard that can first of all, shoot the ball in order to open up and spread the floor. A guard that is a capable passer, and defender. A guard capable of picking up the offense if needed, or perhaps being the second option on the team offensively. A player that can average 15/16 PPG, and on occasion give you 20 plus, but still be a complimentry player. Sort of a Scottie Pippin to Michael Jordan type of thing. And important player that realizes that he's not the most important player.

At SF (preferably, at least 6'8") we need a similiar player as our SG, but with more emphasis on defense. Someone capable of giving us good weakside defense in the post, and good defense on the perimeter. He needs to be at mininum, a 5 rebound a game guy, and also have the capability of hitting an open spot up shot. Once again, he needs to be a capable passer. Someone that can score 10 to 15 PPG efficently, without anyone noticing. Take a little bit of Artest and combine it with a little bit of Peja. Yeah, I know it doesn't grow on trees.

At PF(preferably at least 6'10") we need a player that can score in the post a little, and hit the 15 foot shot. He needs to be an aggressive rebounder, and a good post, help,and isolation defender. He also needs to be a good passer. Someone that can quietly score 10 PPG, and grab 8 boards a game. Preferably defensive rebounds! Think Maurice Lucas, if any of you can remember him. He was the yang part of the Walton/Lucas combination.

Of course at center we would have Cousins. Off the bench, and I perfer an 8 or 9 man rotation, I perfer a change of pace PG that can come in, push the ball, play good defense, and score. I like either a scoring SF or SG off the bench. Someone capable of putting up 15/18 points a game off the bench. I perfer my bench big men to be more defensive and rebounding types, that do most of their scoring off of what the perimeter players do. Their job is go in and hold down the fort for 15 MPG. If one or both can score a little, great, but mostly I want defense and rebounding and leave the scoring in the second unit up to the perimeter players.

Now thats what I would want, and I'm sure everyone has their own ideas that probably differ from mine. But I don't think the current team reflects what I would want, except for a few players. Finally, from reading some of the posts, I think there are some misconceptions about certain players numbers and accomplishments. Which I'll see if I can squeeze into this post. I want to compare last yr's stats with this yr's stats on certain players.

I. Thomas: Last year: 25:30 MPG - 8.8 shots per game - 44.8% FGP - 37.9% 3PP - 11.5 PPG - 4.1 APG - 2.0 TO
I. Thomas: This year: 24:06 MPG - 9.2 shots per game - 45.5% FGP - 42.3% 3PP - 11.7 PPG - 1.5 APG

M. Thornton: Last year: 34:53 MPG - 15.7 shots per game - 43.8% FGP - 34.5% 3PP 18.7 PPG - 1.9 APG - 1.6 TO
M. Thornton: This year: 31:11 MPG - 15.5 shots per game - 40.9% FGP - 27.0% 3PP 16.7 PPG - 2.3 APG - 0.2 TO

T. Evans: Last year: 34.17 MPG - 14.3 shots per game - 45.3% FGP - 20.2% 3PP - 16.5 PPG - 4.5 APG - 2.7 TO - 4.6 RPG
T. Evans: This year: 34:30 MPG - 12.5 shots per game - 36.0% FGP - 12.5% 3PP - 11.8 PPG - 3.2 APG - 2.2 TO - 6.7 RPG

A. Brooks: This year: 21:18 MPG - 8.5 shots per game - 33.3% FGP - 28.6% 3PP - 6.8 PPG - 2.0 APG - 0.7 TO

J. Fredette: Last year: 18:36 MPG - 7.3 shots per game - 38.6% FGP - 36.1% 3PP - 7.6 PPG - 1.8 APG - 1.1 TO
J. Fredette: This year: 7:30 MPG - 3.2 shots per game - 56.3% FGP - 40.0 3PP - 5.0 PPG - 0.6 APG - 0.4 TO

Here are the 3pt percentages of any other players that are likely to take a 3pt shot.

Garcia: 33.3%
Outlaw: 00.0%
Johnson: 00.0%

If you look at just the scoring you'll notice that only two players are scoring the ball better than last season. I. Thomas and J. Fredette. Everyone else is underaccheiving. Tyreke's shooting percentages overall are terrible. Only two players are shooting over 40% from the three, and only three players are over 30%. You tell me, if your the other team, whats your defense going to look like? I'm going to pack the post to defend agains Cousins having a big game, and make the perimeter players beat me.

Now this is just a small sampling for this year, but the problem is, we weren't much better last year. We took a lot of shots, and scored a lot of points, but we wern't efficient while doing it. Tyreke isn't going to suddenly turn into an efficient scorer. Thornton is a persistent and volume shooter, but his 3 pt percentage is average at best.

The problem is, this team is made up of for the most part, with average to below average players in some capacity. If they can defend, they can't shoot. If they can shoot, they can't defend. There are few players on this team that have an all around game. Now I expect Brooks to shoot the ball better, and he should be a nice addition. But if your were drafting a team, I doubt that players like Garcia and Outlaw would be at the top of you list. No offense to them, but they should be the last player at the end of the bench on a good team.

This team is in dire need of good shooters. Without them, Cousins job is going to be a lot tougher. Why did we make no attempt to sign or trade for a solid, proven, perimeter shooter? Never mind, I know why!

I agree with everything in the post except for the height requirements. For example, IT is good enough to get you to the playoffs, despite his size. (Denver proves that). As Reynolds alluded last night, they aren't running the pick and roll like they did last year (which he did very well) and the offensive system changes are closing up the paint. Add the lousy outside shooting from the two and the three and it's no wonder his assists are down.

Thompson is definitely good enough at the 4. He's been consistently good this year.

Cousins is definitely good enough physically, but his mental weakness is hurting this team because they just can't count on the guy. Do you want to go to battle with Cousins? No, because you're constantly worried that he's going to be unavailable because of fouls or suspensions or who knows what. He's easily the mental weakling on this team.

Tyreke doesn't fit your bill or mine.

Johnson doesn't fit your bill or mine.

You can get away with having one of either Tyreke or Johnson in the lineup because of their defensive prowess, but not both.

The only other potential two way players on this team are Thornton and possibly Salmons. Thornton's D isn't elite, but it is passable. I'd like to see a lineup of Cousins, Thompson, IT, Thornton or Salmons, and Mr X. (In some cases you might want all five on the floor). Mr X would be any of the defensive non-shooters that we have - Tyreke, Johnson, Robinson. Then you have four guys who can spread the floor; only one guy that cannot.

 

[Gilles]

Thornton is a two-way player now? How low is your standard?

 

[bajaden]

Our problem is our shooters can't defend and our defenders can't shoot. You replace JJ or Tyreke with Thornton and we go right back to bottom 5 in defense. That's on Petrie. Next problem is that we're not helping our cause by enforcing proper spacing. That's on Smart and the players.

But you know what I really can't stand? We just got blown out by the Lakers. And in garbage time of said blow out game, I essentially the saw the same lineups that we see on a nightly basis when we're actually trying to win.

I think you just said what I said. And the problem with spacing is, it doesn't matter if you space the floor if they don't guard you. And right now, the other team is not guarding JJ or Tyreke when their out on the perimeter. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said ill fitting parts. Its alright to have defensive specialists out there, but they have to be able to at least hit a wide open spot up. At the momet, neither Tyreke or JJ has proven they can do that. You can usually find a way to hide one player like that in the offense, but not two.

 

[bajaden]

Thornton is a two-way player now? How low is your standard?

He's also battery operated!

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Lets see...the shooters the Kings have:

Brooks
Jimmer
Thornton

On any other team with a decent coach, that's probably about 50 points of offense. But...Smart has totally quelled that production with his rotations and screwed up offensive scheme...whatever THAT is.

 

[bajaden]

I agree with everything in the post except for the height requirements. For example, IT is good enough to get you to the playoffs, despite his size. (Denver proves that). As Reynolds alluded last night, they aren't running the pick and roll like they did last year (which he did very well) and the offensive system changes are closing up the paint. Add the lousy outside shooting from the two and the three and it's no wonder his assists are down.

Thompson is definitely good enough at the 4. He's been consistently good this year.

Cousins is definitely good enough physically, but his mental weakness is hurting this team because they just can't count on the guy. Do you want to go to battle with Cousins? No, because you're constantly worried that he's going to be unavailable because of fouls or suspensions or who knows what. He's easily the mental weakling on this team.

Tyreke doesn't fit your bill or mine.

Johnson doesn't fit your bill or mine.

You can get away with having one of either Tyreke or Johnson in the lineup because of their defensive prowess, but not both.

The only other potential two way players on this team are Thornton and possibly Salmons. Thornton's D isn't elite, but it is passable. I'd like to see a lineup of Cousins, Thompson, IT, Thornton or Salmons, and Mr X. (In some cases you might want all five on the floor). Mr X would be any of the defensive non-shooters that we have - Tyreke, Johnson, Robinson. Then you have four guys who can spread the floor; only one guy that cannot.

Well I was giving you my preferable height requirments. I do realize its not a perfect world. But I would trade IT for Damian Lillard in a heartbeat. And not because I don't like IT, but because Lillard is taller, more talented, and almost just as quick as IT is. I'm not faulting IT's effort on defense. But he's at a serious disadvantage when he has to guard players like Deron Williams, who is almost 6 inches taller, stronger, and and who loves to post up little guys. Do you think IT would come out ahead in a battle in the playoffs with Westbrook, who is just as quick as IT, and 5 or 6 inches taller?

If your looking to win a championship down the road, do you think IT is the guy that can take you there? Honestly? Because in the playoffs, he's going to be facing the Derrick Rose's and Deron Williams of the world. I'm interested to see the coming matchup between Lillard and IT.

 

[The_Jamal]

Lets see...the shooters the Kings have:

Brooks
Jimmer
Thornton

On any other team with a decent coach, that's probably about 50 points of offense. But...Smart has totally quelled that production with his rotations and screwed up offensive scheme...whatever THAT is.

Brooks and Thornton are volume scorers, not shooters. Outside of IT and Jimmer, there isn't a single player on this team who I have confidence in to be a consistent floor spacer. Unfortunately for us, we can't play them together without getting decimated on defense

 

[The_Jamal]

Well I was giving you my preferable height requirments. I do realize its not a perfect world. But I would trade IT for Damian Lillard in a heartbeat. And not because I don't like IT, but because Lillard is taller, more talented, and almost just as quick as IT is. I'm not faulting IT's effort on defense. But he's at a serious disadvantage when he has to guard players like Deron Williams, who is almost 6 inches taller, stronger, and and who loves to post up little guys. Do you think IT would come out ahead in a battle in the playoffs with Westbrook, who is just as quick as IT, and 5 or 6 inches taller?

If your looking to win a championship down the road, do you think IT is the guy that can take you there? Honestly? Because in the playoffs, he's going to be facing the Derrick Rose's and Deron Williams of the world. I'm interested to see the coming matchup between Lillard and IT.

I'd counter that it's near impossible for anyone to stop or slow those guys down 1 on 1. You force those guys into bad games with tremendous help defense and taking the ball out of there hands as much as possible.

 

[Padrino]

i'm becoming more certain that the "state of the kings" will remain perpetually in flux until the maloofs sell. the playoffs feel like a pipedream already, and we're only two weeks into the regular season. and with another lost season in the books, it is difficult to imagine the maloofs ponying up a hefty contract for tyreke evans, and its even more difficult to imagine demarcus cousins wanting to stay in sacramento past next season if the losing culture persists. sure, he can earn the absolute maximum here, but he strikes me as far too competitive to take the extra $$$ over a chance at winning somewhere else. i don't see the maloofs hiring a competent coach, either. competence is expensive in the nba, and the maloofs simply can't afford it. it depresses me, because some of the pieces are there. cousins, evans, and thornton should be a competitive core. jason thompson is a relatively consistent holdover. chuck hayes and james johnson have proven to be valuable defensive role players. i don't know what to expect from thomas robinson, but, elbow aside, i like his hustle and his athleticism. it seems a shame that it will all likely amount to nothing. i look forward to the day that a buyer is able to pry the kings away from the maloofs. i look forward to the day that new ownership cleans house, and starts from scratch, so i can forget about the decade in between the kings' glory years and this present moment in time. if things turn around while the maloofs are still in town, great. but i am not optimistic. from ownership to management to coaching, everything feels like an act of self-sabotage. the double-overtime game a week ago in indiana could very well be a microcosm of this era of kings' basketball: close, but not enough. okay, here endeth the johnny raincloud post...

 

[Kingster]

Thornton is a two-way player now? How low is your standard?

He's been pretty good this year on D. He'll get you loose balls, rebounds. He's not the most talented defensive player, but he is gritty.

 

[Kingster]

Well I was giving you my preferable height requirments. I do realize its not a perfect world. But I would trade IT for Damian Lillard in a heartbeat. And not because I don't like IT, but because Lillard is taller, more talented, and almost just as quick as IT is. I'm not faulting IT's effort on defense. But he's at a serious disadvantage when he has to guard players like Deron Williams, who is almost 6 inches taller, stronger, and and who loves to post up little guys. Do you think IT would come out ahead in a battle in the playoffs with Westbrook, who is just as quick as IT, and 5 or 6 inches taller?

If your looking to win a championship down the road, do you think IT is the guy that can take you there? Honestly? Because in the playoffs, he's going to be facing the Derrick Rose's and Deron Williams of the world. I'm interested to see the coming matchup between Lillard and IT.

We don't disagree. All I'm saying is that if this team doesn't go to the playoffs, it's not IT. I don't know if IT can get you to the championship or not, but we have to get real - this team is soooooooo far from a championship it's ridiculous even talking about it championship at this point. Let's just figure out how to get to the playoffs, and there's no doubt in my mind that IT is good enough to get you there, if other issues are addressed on this team.

 

[Bricklayer]

We don't disagree. All I'm saying is that if this team doesn't go to the playoffs, it's not IT. I don't know if IT can get you to the championship or not, but we have to get real - this team is soooooooo far from a championship it's ridiculous even talking about it championship at this point. Let's just figure out how to get to the playoffs, and there's no doubt in my mind that IT is good enough to get you there, if other issues are addressed on this team.

Derek Fisher and Steve Blake are inf act good enough to get you to the playoffs, assuming the rest of the personnel are just that good.

 

[ESP47]

If I had it my way, I'd trade the whole team, including Cousins, Tyreke and Thornton. We need to just start over at every position. The way it sits, were gonna be in limbo for another 3-4 years before starting over anyway, so we might as well just do it right now. Get draft picks for our best players and then build a team OKC style. Tyreke and Thornton are not as advertised. Cousins is a great player but he'll never become a star because of his attitude and foul problems. Just get rid of the whole damn group and start over again. We're wasting our time with these players. Like the poster said above, we don't have any players that can shoot and play D. They either do one or the other. If they can shoot, they can't shoot very well. Our best shooters are league average shooters and our average shooters don't even get off the bench on most teams. We built a team around a bunch of players that either don't compliment each other, or don't have complete games. This entire roster needs to be turned over and wiped clean.

 

[rainmaker]

If I had it my way, I'd trade the whole team, including Cousins, Tyreke and Thornton. We need to just start over at every position. The way it sits, were gonna be in limbo for another 3-4 years before starting over anyway, so we might as well just do it right now. Get draft picks for our best players and then build a team OKC style. Tyreke and Thornton are not as advertised. Cousins is a great player but he'll never become a star because of his attitude and foul problems. Just get rid of the whole damn group and start over again. We're wasting our time with these players. Like the poster said above, we don't have any players that can shoot and play D. They either do one or the other. If they can shoot, they can't shoot very well. Our best shooters are league average shooters and our average shooters don't even get off the bench on most teams. We built a team around a bunch of players that either don't compliment each other, or don't have complete games. This entire roster needs to be turned over and wiped clean.

We already blew up the team and added good pieces through the draft. An incompetent organization mishandling a rebuild does not solve it's own problems by blowing up our youth and mishandling another rebuild. Blowing up the roster doesn't change the incompetence issue. If our organization shows incompetence in their handling of Reke/Cuz/MT/IT, why would it all the sudden change with another set of draftees?

Not to mention, if this team decided to give up on Reke/Cuz/MT and attempt another rebuild after this half *** rebuild, many won't stick around for it. There's just so much wrong in what you said, highlighted by you declaring Cuz will never be a star. Speaking in absolutes about 22 yr olds just makes one look ridiculous. If he stayed in college he'd be a senior, yet you've already determined his ceiling?

Whipping a roster clean while keeping the same management in place which screwed up a rebuild and couldn't put a competent roster together in the first place would see us go through the same thing again.

 

[ESP47]

I should have stated that if I had it my way, I'd get rid of everyone from the owners on down to Petrie and the entire coaching staff. Just about everything about this organization is terrible.

Don't get all worked up about the Cousins statement. By time he straightens out (if he ever does) he'll most likely be out of Sacramento. He's the best player on the team and the only one I would consider keeping, but can you really build your team around a 6'11" center with the mind of a 12 year old? The constant crying, bitching, moaning, pouting and bitter beer facing is just beyond ridiculous at this point. You know people are telling him if he quits complaining, he'll quit getting as many fouls called against him. But he just can't help it because he's too immature. Can't build your team around a guy who fouls out every 25 minutes.

 

[Bricklayer]

I should have stated that if I had it my way, I'd get rid of everyone from the owners on down to Petrie and the entire coaching staff. Just about everything about this organization is terrible.

Don't get all worked up about the Cousins statement. By time he straightens out (if he ever does) he'll most likely be out of Sacramento. He's the best player on the team and the only one I would consider keeping, but can you really build your team around a 6'11" center with the mind of a 12 year old? The constant crying, bitching, moaning, pouting and bitter beer facing is just beyond ridiculous at this point. You know people are telling him if he quits complaining, he'll quit getting as many fouls called against him. But he just can't help it because he's too immature. Can't build your team around a guy who fouls out every 25 minutes.

at age 22? Yes. You build your team aroudn HOF talents. When you are Sacramento you are lucky if you get one every 10 years. In fact, it was one in the first 25 years. So yes. And you don't even think about being stupid about it.