Start Hart, Trade Bibby?

[CaminoChaos]

Note: I started this thread for sake of argument and it doesn't mean this is what I want for the team!!!

When I was comparing stats and recollecting on the past 4 preseason games, one thing came to mind. Hart has out performing Bibby. Statistically Hart has scored more(20p/per48 vs 16p/per48), shot far better from the floor(42% vs 34%) and strip(88% vs 75%) and has more steals(3.3 vs 2.4) per 48 minutes than Bibby. They both rebound the same(Hart a touch more than Bibby), they turn the ball over the same amount and dish out the same amount of passes in 48 minute period.

Well then you tell yourself it's the intangible that are not shown in the statistics that tell the story. Again Hart has shown great smothering defense the full length of the court and has made almost no mental mistakes. Bibby on the other hand get beat of the dribble time and time again and finds himself getting out of rhythm when opposing teams apply full-court pressure.

There is a very strong arguement to start Hart and trade Bibby and his huge contract. The only thing we would potentially miss is his scoring(we have plenty of scoring) and his clutch shooting.

What are your thoughts?

 

[LA King Fan II]

We've done the trade thing for months. The bottom line is the player that is needed to contend is Garnett, Shaq, Stoudemaire, Duncan or I suppose Yao Ming or Kobe. Not only are they not available, we can't get 'em with the trade bait we have.

 

[loopymitch]

It's preseason not the playoffs!

 

[tyrant]

i understand LA King Fan II, but those players you listed are completely off the market. this is about hart and bibby and Camino Chaos makes a pretty good point. however, it's only preseason. i am very impressed with hart and i know he has the potential to be a better backup than bobby jackson. mike bibby has proven himself to be a clutch star. bibby can go off for 30 points and 4 steals on any night.

 

[vj9999]

Bibby just has to shave his head and he'll be back to normal.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Are you crazy? You want to trade our star point guard, and start someone that couldn't start in Charlotte? Don't get me wrong Jason Hart is a great player, but he's not a starter, at least not on a team thats trying to contend.

 

[VF21]

This is unbelievable. Last season, until he finally wore out totally exhausted, Mike Bibby was our last best hope. Now, BEFORE even one season game is played, some people are ready to kick him to the curb for some guy we've never even seen play with the other starters????

Oh... my... gawd.

 

[Bricklayer]

Okay, this whole thing with Bibby has gotten ridiculous now. Yes, we will start a guy not good enough to start for an expansion team last year. I begin to think it would have been better if the preseason games weren't televised so we all wouldn't be getting so worked up over colossal nothings. As I recall Vlade was a complete waste every preseason too, but it didn't mean we were going to trade him and start Pollard.

I like Jason Hart. As a backup. And frankly he would not be as good as a starter, talnet aside, simply because part of the reason he is effective coming off the bench is how recklessly he uses his fouls. He's not worried about minutes, so he damn near fouls out every night in 20minutes. You can't do that as a starter, nor can you bring it with as much energy as he does for 30-40minutes a night. He's a solid defensive backup. At least in preseason. Meanwhile Bibby seemed on the cusp of turning into a full-fledged star last season.

 

[piksi]

This just confirms my theory that PRESEASON - SUCKS !!!

 

[Diabeticwonder]

This thread is unreal!!!! If preseason really meant this much then I guess we can all right off the Spurs since they are 1-5 and I'm sure they are looking to trade Duncan, Manu and the rest of the gang as well as fire Pop.

 

[CaminoChaos]

hello!

Please read the thread carefully before saying stuff like:

Are you crazy? You want to trade our star point guard

or

some people are ready to kick him to the curb for some guy we've never even seen play with the other starters????

Oh... my... gawd.

I clearly said:

Note: I started this thread for sake of argument and it doesn't mean this is what I want for the team.

I am not crazy and I am not kicking him to the curb. I am just making a point how much better Hart has played than Bibby. So much for paying attention to detail.

 

[sc3252]

This just confirms my theory that PRESEASON - SUCKS !!!

exactly, the games dont mean diddley, since most of our starters are not even playing for extended min. I wish they would not air preseason and would not print the stats!

 

[gman23]

Pre-season is what it is. Trying to find players that fit your scheme. It's not about wining or losing but assestments. Hart will only start if Bibby gets injured.

 

[ESP47]

So 4 preseason games completely changed your mind about a player who has been one of the best on our team for the last few years?

 

[D-Mass]

Uhh....no.

 

[nbrans]

I can't decide if this thread is two months too late or three months too early, but I don't know why everyone is freaking out, because it's not a terrible idea. The Kings are never going to be a good defensive team with Bibby at the point, Hart is a more than capable defender and floor leader, if Bibby could bring a superstar shooting guard or power forward I say go for it.

My thoughts really haven't changed since August.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182513#post182513

 

[CaminoChaos]

Meanwhile Bibby seemed on the cusp of turning into a full-fledged star last season.

We all know Bibby is an offensive star and fits our scheme offensively but his defense is so atrocious he has given up as many points has he has scored for us.

Do you guys see Adelman benching Bibby in the 4th quarter for defensive purposes like he did with Williams or like Popovich did with Parker when Hart played for S.A.?

 

[thesanityannex]

Note: I started this thread for sake of argument and it doesn't mean this is what I want for the team.

I really think this line was missed CaminoChaos. Should have put it in bold.

 

[CaminoChaos]

I really think this line was missed CaminoChaos. Should have put it in bold.

No kinding maybe I will. Geez.

 

[Bricklayer]

Do you guys see Adelman benching Bibby in the 4th quarter for defensive purposes like he did with Williams or like Popovich did with Parker when Hart played for S.A.?

No, and thank God given that the rest of the team practically grow labia when it comes down to the clutch.

Note: Mike Bibby was the PG on the #1 defensive team in the league in 2002-03. His defense sucks. It can be worked around. There is not a player on this team who should be untouochable in trade, because frankly none of them are first rate great. But Bibby is at the absolute bottom of that list as the one clutch player on the team who has PROVEN that he can get it done in the biggest games and most pressure situations. And for Jason Hart? Jeesh. Better bring back KG somehow.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

The only thing we would potentially miss is his scoring(we have plenty of scoring) and his clutch shooting.

Hmm.. How about his 7 assists a game, how about his leadership.. Most importantly how about his 4 years expierience in this offence, to make it run, I don't know if you've seen Kings games without Bibby, but it's not pretty, the team does not look fluid.. Plus it's pre-season, Bibby has proven he can put up allstar numbers in the season and post-season, Hart hasn't proven jack in this offence.

 

[nbrans]

No, and thank God given that the rest of the team practically grow labia when it comes down to the clutch.

I wish they WERE more like the Monarchs.

 

[kingsfan52miller]

wow trade bibby for hart, i think not

 

[nbrans]

Hmm.. How about his 7 assists a game, how about his leadership.. Most importantly how about his 4 years expierience in this offence, to make it run, I don't know if you've seen Kings games without Bibby, but it's not pretty, the team does not look fluid.. Plus it's pre-season, Bibby has proven he can put up allstar numbers in the season and post-season, Hart hasn't proven jack.

Wasn't there a whole thread devoted to lamenting how the Kings don't have a leader? Now Bibby's the leader?

And maybe someone can explain to me how people on this board can bash the Kings and its individual players (especially the ones whose names start with S, end in C, with a tojakovi in the middle) for their softness, but the softest, worst-defending player on the team gets a get out of playing-defense free card?

It's really funny, people eviscerate Peja for not stepping up on offense, even though he's shown himself to be a clutch defender. People go on and on about Bibby and about how clutch he is, even though he's shown himself to be a disastrous clutch defender. Meanwhile, defense supposedly wins champsionships. Hmm... aparently not in the last two minutes of basketball games!!

 

[Amory]

Well, Hart does play harder on D and for that reason alone I could see some type of a trade coming for Bibby. I don't think Hart will start but he is an amazing back up. If Bibby got traded it would be for someone that plays good D and above par play making skills. Can't think of anyone right now that we could get though.

p.s. No I don't wanna see Bibby go!

 

[OptimusRhyme]

"Wasn't there a whole thread devoted to lamenting how the Kings don't have a leader? Now Bibby's the leader?"



Did I say he's the "Leader".. No

I said leadership, lots of players can have leadership, He knows the system he knows how things are done around here, and his leadership sets an example to the other players.
This is a stupid thread, stop trying to find stuff to argue about, The simple answer is that any knowledgeable Kings fan would not trade Bibby to start Jason Hart.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

duel post.

 

[nbrans]

"
This is a stupid thread, stop trying to find stuff to argue about, The simple answer is that any knowledgeable Kings fan would not trade Bibby to start Jason Hart.

I guess CaminoChaos' font and red type still isn't big enough.

It's not like the idea is to trade Bibby for a void to open up a spot for Hart becuase Hart's so good. But what if you could trade Bibby and get Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett? Hmm....

My point is just that the idea of trading Bibby shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, like you're doing here. Hart could conceivably start. He's capable. Of course it depends on who you get in return, but I don't think Bibby is as essential to the Kings as people seem to think he is.

 

[CaminoChaos]

I guess CaminoChaos' font and red type still isn't big enough.

Bingo!

 

[CaminoChaos]

Another thing that came to mind was if Bibby made 2 stops, just 2 little stops, in any close game we wouldn't need him to make a clutch shot.

Hmmmm....intresting.