Start Hart, Trade Bibby?

[OptimusRhyme]

I guess CaminoChaos' font and red type still isn't big enough.

It's not like the idea is to trade Bibby for a void to open up a spot for Hart becuase Hart's so good. But what if you could trade Bibby and get Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett? Hmm....

My point is just that the idea of trading Bibby shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, like you're doing here. Hart could conceivably start. He's capable. Of course it depends on who you get in return, but I don't think Bibby is as essential to the Kings as people seem to think he is.

The whole idea just seems stupid to me, We have a good team right now, theres no point in even contemplating trading our best player. And once again I have to say, have you seen the Kings offence when Bibby is not running it, how stagnant they are, Bibby is essential to the team x10, I don't know what player your watching but maybe pay a little closer attention to the stuff Bibby brings to the table.

 

[Wuster]

Ok, time for Wuster to weigh in. Hey, all you Geoff Petrie wannabees...

The reason they brought Hart in, in the first place, was to replace Bjax with a solid definsive-minded backup for Bibby. Hart is a complementary piece, to be used by Adelman in the traditional backup role and situationally as he sees fit. Translation - when his skills are called for, he'll be used.

How many times have Petrie and Adelman described the core? Bibby, Peja, Miller? They're not going to break that up by trading Bibby - they're going to build around it.

Having said all that, Bibby must play MUCH better defense than he's shown in the preseason. His matchup with Davis from GS was completely embarrasing.

 

[CaminoChaos]

have you seen the Kings offence when Bibby is not running it

Yeah, I think they went 15-5 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[CaminoChaos]

Having said all that, Bibby must play MUCH better defense than he's shown in the preseason. His matchup with Davis from GS was completely embarrasing.

I would be 100% satisfied with Bibby if he wouldn't give up on covering his man and at least try to get a hand in there face. As soon as he is beat he completely stops running with his man. He does not try on defense. He gives up and that is whats frustrating.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Another thing that came to mind was if Bibby made 2 stops, just 2 little stops, in any close game we wouldn't need him to make a clutch shot.

Hmmmm....intresting.

Oh and how about Brad Miller making 2 more, or Peja, or Kenny Thomas, or Brian Skinner, you can't say that, it's not logical its just plain stupidity, Defence is a team concept. It's this simple our team is offensive orientated, were NOT a defensive team, and trading one of our best offensive orchistraters.. Does that make alot of sense, its not like were going to get a player back that is going to change our whole defensive scheme and all of a sudden put us on the map defensively. If you think we should trade people based on one aspect of there game then we should just say goodbye to the whole core.

 

[kingsfan916]

Trade Bibby? what?????

 

[Bricklayer]

Camino, you are either being a helluva devil's advocate, or you should just pull your big red announcement down because its B.S.. You are certainly arguing like someone who actually thinks this would be a good idea. To which I just have to say, "duh".

NONE of our "core" three is worth a damn at anything but offense. If we are really serious about defense they will ALL go, and take SAR along with them. But its always a question of what do they do for you on the other end. Does it balance out? With Bibby it does.

He's got a flaw. A nasty one. But he's also got balls. And without them, there are no titles. Not in the NBA. Not likely in any professional sports league unless you are riding on somebody's coattails who does have them. He led the team in steals, assists, was barely 2nd in scoring. Outrebounded our 6'9" SF, outblocked our 6'7" "PF", and provided the moxy, and yes you've got it, balls, that were otherwise missing once Webb left town. If you've ever played any team sport competitively, at any level, you know just how critical it is to have a guy who sacs up. Unfortunately our guy who does has a real flaw to his game. Its why he's not untouchable. But until someone else on this team proves they are anything but empty numbers, he's the best thing we've got going, and the one thing that almost every team in the league wishes they had (with 3 or 4 exceptions). You get KG for he and Peja? Sure. You shove him off somewhere to free up time for a borderline scrub off an expansion team? That's a bad joke. You do it off of 4 preseason games...er...

 

[thesanityannex]

Bibby is hardly a defensive monster, and come to think of it, no starting point guards are. Bibby is a fit for the role the Kings need him to play.

 

[piksi]

Yeah, I think they went 15-5 if I'm not mistaken.

With Webber, Vlade etc. That team is gone - end - over - finito

 

[CaminoChaos]

Yes I am playing Devil's Advocate. I know how important Bibby is to this system because of his offense and you will not find a more perfect player to fit in. I would never trade him unless it was a deal involving a superstar. However I am backing up my statement that his playing time should be reduced for lack of trying on defense. Yes trying and not giving up. He stops in mid-stirde the second his guy gets side by side with him. I have watched all the preseason game and some of them twice(I have no life =).) and pisses me off to see him just quit on his defensive assignment. If you look closely enough you can actually see the disgust in some of the other players faces having to leave there players and helping Mike.

The only reason I put the diclaimer is because I didn't want to read a bunch of crap that says "you are an idiot" or "that is the craziest thing I've ever heard" but instead posting why Jason Hart isn't good enough to be a starter or suggestions of ways to improve Bibby's defense. But most people feel that critisizing another poster is considered an intelligent post rather than giving a legitimate arguement.

 

[MVP]

piksi "care" you are still here? I also see that brick is still using his bat to monopolize this forum (just kidding) dictator brick!

so whats new, trying to trade bibby or what? we need BENCH thats what we need. We used to be loaded with subs now we got some dudes who cant even pronounce their own names!!!

 

[OptimusRhyme]

However I am backing up my statement that his playing time should be reduced for lack of trying on defense. Yes trying and not giving up. He stops in mid-stirde the second his guy gets side by side with him.

Whats taking away some of his minutes going to solve? The rest of our team can't defend so whats the difference? We'll just be weaker offensively when he's out and still be getting scored on, so it makes no sense at all to play him less.

 

[insyder]

Camino, just go ahead and add that 3rd line to your sig... It'll be just as bizarre as the other two lines.

3rd - Trade Bibby

 

[Bballkingsrock]

Camino, you are either being a helluva devil's advocate, or you should just pull your big red announcement down because its B.S.. You are certainly arguing like someone who actually thinks this would be a good idea. To which I just have to say, "duh".

NONE of our "core" three is worth a damn at anything but offense. If we are really serious about defense they will ALL go, and take SAR along with them. But its always a question of what do they do for you on the other end. Does it balance out? With Bibby it does.

He's got a flaw. A nasty one. But he's also got balls. And without them, there are no titles. Not in the NBA. Not likely in any professional sports league unless you are riding on somebody's coattails who does have them. He led the team in steals, assists, was barely 2nd in scoring. Outrebounded our 6'9" SF, outblocked our 6'7" "PF", and provided the moxy, and yes you've got it, balls, that were otherwise missing once Webb left town. If you've ever played any team sport competitively, at any level, you know just how critical it is to have a guy who sacs up. Unfortunately our guy who does has a real flaw to his game. Its why he's not untouchable. But until someone else on this team proves they are anything but empty numbers, he's the best thing we've got going, and the one thing that almost every team in the league wishes they had (with 3 or 4 exceptions). You get KG for he and Peja? Sure. You shove him off somewhere to free up time for a borderline scrub off an expansion team? That's a bad joke. You do it off of 4 preseason games...er...

Agreed. And to answer your question, CaminoChaos, NO.

 

[allrightythen]

I can see the logic in starting Hart to improve the defense a little, especially at the point of attack, but when you have a Mike Bibby on the team, you don't do that. He does too much other stuff. I don't think its nuts to suggest it or anything, just nuts to actually do it. Liked Brick's argument about Hart being a good Bench guy but not really starter stuff. Bibby's headiness and clutch play overcome his defensive lapses by far.

 

[Yoda]

trade Peja...start Sandrin
How absurd that this thread was even brought up. Then again, with Petries "wonderful" moves lately...you never know it could happen.

 

[CaminoChaos]

Camino, just go ahead and add that 3rd line to your sig... It'll be just as bizarre as the other two lines.

3rd - Trade Bibby

It's an old joke on Kingsfan.com. Maybe you'll figure it out some day Grasshopper.

I didn't want to trade Bibby!!!!!!!!! Brick you were wrong. Maybe I did need to make the disclaimer bigger.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... The only reason I put the diclaimer is because I didn't want to read a bunch of crap that says "you are an idiot" or "that is the craziest thing I've ever heard" but instead posting why Jason Hart isn't good enough to be a starter or suggestions of ways to improve Bibby's defense. But most people feel that critisizing another poster is considered an intelligent post rather than giving a legitimate arguement.

And exactly how many detailed responses will it take to satisfy you, CaminoChaos? Three? Five? Fifty? I mean, I've seen the rational, intelligent responses that you claimed to want in this thread, and you appear to have decided to deliberately ignore them; do you have it in your mind that any thread in which you ask a "serious" question must necessarily have 100 percent "serious" responses in order for you to acknowledge that your question has been answered? Or, in your mind, are the legitimate answers you got automatically disregared, simply because some people called your OP stupid?

I'm hoping that you'll do me the favor of letting me know, as it'll save me a lot of time with respect to whether or not I should reply to you about any given topic in the future.

 

[BigSong]

I would be 100% satisfied with Bibby if he wouldn't give up on covering his man and at least try to get a hand in there face. As soon as he is beat he completely stops running with his man. He does not try on defense. He gives up and that is whats frustrating.

I've seen this kind of thing said of Bibby a few times and I'm still not understanding what you would expect Bibby to do after he is "beat". If your beat your beat right? I'm completely willing to give into the argument that on certain set plays, particularly picks and switches, Bibby just gets burned, but what do expect him to do.... chase after a guy and foul em. turn a 2 point play into 3? you can only defend so long until it turns into a foul.

 

[mr. moustache]

What do labia have to do with playing to the best of your abilities when it matters the most? You've been referring to labias, balls, and the need to sac up so much. Genitalia has little to do with sports, so long as the participants share equivalent parts.

No, and thank God given that the rest of the team practically grow labia when it comes down to the clutch.

Note: Mike Bibby was the PG on the #1 defensive team in the league in 2002-03. His defense sucks. It can be worked around. There is not a player on this team who should be untouochable in trade, because frankly none of them are first rate great. But Bibby is at the absolute bottom of that list as the one clutch player on the team who has PROVEN that he can get it done in the biggest games and most pressure situations. And for Jason Hart? Jeesh. Better bring back KG somehow.

 

[CaminoChaos]

I've seen this kind of thing said of Bibby a few times and I'm still not understanding what you would expect Bibby to do after he is "beat". If your beat your beat right? I'm completely willing to give into the argument that on certain set plays, particularly picks and switches, Bibby just gets burned, but what do expect him to do.... chase after a guy and foul em. turn a 2 point play into 3? you can only defend so long until it turns into a foul.

Hart doesn't give up. He stays hip to hip with his man. Anybody who has played organized ball has heard there coach tell them to stay hip to hip untill you are under the basket. Its pretty much an unwritten rule. That then cuts off a passing lane.

Yes I do expect him to foul him. Bibby averages LESS THAN 2 fouls a game in his career. Thats 1-2 fouls in 40 minutes of play. Thats pathetic. If you foul a guy hard enough he will not make the basket. (That goes for the rest of the team.). Let him know your there. Granted there is nothing you can do about picks and switches. He gets burned EVERYTIME.

That kind of ties into the question. Will his offense makes up for his terrible defense?

And as soon as opponents realize if you pressure him up the court he gets thrown off his game and then at that point does Adelman bench him because he has no defense and his offense thrown off?

 

[HndsmCelt]

This thread is an excellent example of exactly what happens when preseason play coincides with harvest time in Humbolt. Too many fans with too much time, too much of too high a quality of pot and not nearly enough basketball. I think folks need to put the kind buds down and back away from the keyboard.

 

[CaminoChaos]

This thread is an excelent example of exactly what happens when preseason paly coincides with harvest time in Humbolt. Too many fans with too much time, too much of too high a quality of pot and not nearly enough basketball. I thin folks need to put the kind buds down and back away from the keyboard.

I ask you this:

as soon as opponents realize if you pressure him up the court he gets thrown off his game and then at that point does Adelman bench him because he has no defense and his offense thrown off?

 

[KP]

There is a very strong arguement to start Hart and trade Bibby and his huge contract.

wow.

 

[bibbinator]

Free Martha!

I want her out of jail and making decorative holiday placemats on my TV, WHERE SHE BELONGS!

 

[ONEZERO]

OH






MY











GAWD










!

 

[Netguy115]

can this thread be locked? its pointless....trade our only bonafide star? i think not


and replace him with a guy that just 2 years ago was practically out of the league? i mean, jason hart is a very solid backup, but he's no bibby replacement...and trying to compare their stats when its in the PRESEASON is absurd

wait until march, april and may when bibby is draining game winning shots like usual and this thread will be even more hilarious than it is now

lock this please, mods, if you have a heart

 

[bibbinator]

I will not rest until Martha breaths the sweet tangy air of freedom.

 

[D-Mass]

I will not rest until Martha breaths the sweet tangy air of freedom.

Alright...I'll bite. Forgive me if I'm missing some irony or an inside joke, but...

...what are you talking about? Martha's been free for months!

 

[Amory]

Well, trying to get this topic a little more productive I would say "it's great to have Hart!" Fun player to watch and does a great job as back up for Bibby!