Small Forward Shopping

funkykingston

funkykingston

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Staff member
If there's one major spot in the lineup that needs addressing I think it's the starting SF. I don't see the right guy in the draft which means either signing or trading for that guy.

One way to go is via trade in which case I think a guy like Danny Granger would be a solid option. Casspi (or Greene) plus the Kings pick might get it done especially if the pick is top 3 in part because Indiana would like the cap relief. This route does mean using both capspace AND the lottery pick but may well be worth it.

The other way to go is free agency. In my opinion the right guy for the job is a versatile, longtime veteran with playoff experience who can help mentor this team while providing defense, three point shooting and ball handling/passing. Basically a rich man's Cisco.

Fortunately, a few of those guys are available. In no particular order I like:

Shane Battier
Andre Kirilenko
Tayshaun Prince
Grant Hill

Other options would be Caron Butler (who I think needs too many shots), Boris Diaw (who is soft defensively and not a great shooter) and Wilson Chandler (who is young and promising though Denver will try to retain him and I don't think he's worth spending a bunch on).

If the Kings went this route then they could either use their pick on a developmental prospect (a stretch four like Motiejunas, an athletic forward like Biyombo or Leonard or even the "luxury" of a change of pace guard like Irving, Knight or Walker) OR they could trade it for a future pick or another veteran player.

Thoughts?
 
I think Granger or AI would be great targets for a trade, which as you stated, would probably eat up this years or a future #1 in the deal.
 
Hey Hallama! Don't know why I didn't choose TheBigO as a handle on this forum too but it's good to see you posting.

I like Iggy, but I think the biggest issue this team has is not enough spacing and guys that can stretch the floor to acheive it. To me AI doesn't work because if anything he allows defenses to sag into the paint even more than they currently do. Same thing with a Gerald Wallace, another guy that in general I really like.

Everyone knows Tyreke is going to head into the paint and DMC can hit the 20ft J but really needs to operate out of the high post or in the blocks. Thornton was a great addition and both keeps defenses from sagging too much AND gives teams second thoughts about putting their SG on Tyreke as MT can punish little guys too. I think outside shooting is a must for whoever the Kings want to put at the three.

My choice is actually Battier. I like Kirilenko but I think it's a foregone conclusion that if he leaves Utah he's headed to the Nets. Grant Hill is a consumate veteran and great glue guy but has lost more than a step as a defender and is only a decent shooter. I think Prince would be revitalized in Sacramento, but we'll see.

This team is actually poised to take a giant leap forward if they play this offseason correctly. I just hope with all my heart that they do so as the Sacramento Kings.
 
I like all 3 of Prince, Battier, and Kirilenko.

I'd probably order them:
Kirilenko
Battier
Prince

due to age, skill set, and leadership. Utah is ending on a slump, has a ton of draft picks and a few young pieces, and are probably going young overall. I doubt they resign Kirilenko unless he agrees to 4M/year or something minor. Is NJ really after him just because of the owner? They are locked into Outlaw for 7M a year at that spot and I doubt they pay that much for Kirilenko. I bet we could grab him if motivated.
 
Whoa, didn't realize that funky was you, BigO. Makes a lot of sense now though that I agree with most of your posts on here. Good to see you're still waxing poetic about these Kings (or Royals, or whatever).
 
Good to see you too Hallama. I've tried not to get too emotionally vested in this team because I knew there was a chance the Maloofs filed to move this year, but I couldn't help myself. Honestly, with the right offseason I see this team taking a big leap in the near future. Two young studs who are still figuring things out, a third piece in Thornton, a high lottery pick and a ton of caproom? It will be an interesting offseason in a number of ways.

Big Cuz 15 said:
grant hill? the one that is 38 years old?
Click to expand...

Yep. Also the one that played 30 minutes and put up 13 and 4 while making nearly 50% of his field goals and 40% of his threes. I don't see any of the guys I listed being a big contributor just a couple years from now when I think the Kings hopefully become a serious playoff threat, but they are exactly what this young team needs in terms of defense, experience, and veteran leadership to steady the ship when needed.

Obviously I think Hill has the least left in the tank of the guys I mentioned, but he'd also probably be the best mentor and a testiment to determination and hardwork considering how he fought back from so many injuries.

I don't see the SF of the future for the Kings in this year's draft. Quite frankly I don't see much I like in this draft period, but that's beside the point. If you aren't trading for a young, talented SF or drafting a stud rookie to man that spot, why not go after an old hand that can help the young bucks grow?

Resign Dalembert and Thornton, maybe upgrade the bench with a bit more cash, sign a vet SF as a stopgap/mentor and draft the BPA while saving the rest of the caproom to keep the young nucleus together. Sounds like a good plan to me.
 
Good point, but that's going to be largely true of any free agents the Kings try to sign.

I think Prince would actually be the easiest to get of the guys I listed, but I also think that while he brings a veteran presence I wouldn't think of him being a leader.

That said, any or all of those guys could chase a ring or sign with their current teams (well, probably not Prince but that's another story) so you go after them all and see who you can get.
 
I'd like any of the three listed and exclude Hill because of age. The least expensive is Battier and I really like him. In any case, one of the three would be the final piece of a puzzle. I once said that we had a great bench and got the retort that it was too bad some were starters. That's true and funny. But, what I mean is that guys like Cisco, Greene, JT, and Beno are not so egocentric as to think they should be starters. That's 5 starters and 4 bench, all happy to be where they are.

I don't worry much about attracting people to the team as any basketball expert, as I presume these three are, can see that this team is going somewhere and they are needed not to be a star but to make the team a well balanced 9-some of offense and defense at every position.

The city was once seen as the pits but perhaps CWebb's comments have changed the outside world's view of the city. What better salesman for a free agent to listen to? If I was any one of the three, I'd give CWebb a holler and Petrie should encourage that.

As to salary, Kirelinko is too young to take a pay cut from $17 mil to $4 mil. Prince is pretty pricey also. Battier is bargain basement for what he could give us. Hopefully, the price tag is not the limiter but then I dream.

It's exciting times for the Kings if it weren't for distractions.

Oh, before I quit, I think the draft pick could be traded and Omri needs to be traded. If we get Battier, we don't need the draft pick unless we can get a SF who projects to be better than what we have at the moment. I'm not sure if that person will be around either because they player decides not to come out or is gone by the time of our pick.

In any case, a trade involving the #1 pick and Omri could get a very talented young stud at any position but this is drifting too far into speculation. Omri needs to be traded as I think he will become a distraction and certainly will not be either happy or the piece we need.

As crazy as this might seem, and this is totally dependent on the idea that we keep what we have, I fear the possibility of having too many guys who NEED to be starters. At least in their own mind. :)

Dalembert - starter
Cousins - starter
Thornton - starter
Tyreke - starter
FA - starter

I can't imagine anyone changing that. I know some people want Thornton to come off the bench. Limiting a guy who can shoot, can pass, and can rebound to bench player's minutes seems like an unefficent use of talent.



Who's the AI some people refer to?
 
Last edited:
Glenn said:
I'd like any of the three listed and exclude Hill because of age. The least expensive is Battier and I really like him. In any case, one of the three would be the final piece of a puzzle. I once said that we had a great bench and got the retort that it was too bad some were starters. That's true and funny. But, what I mean is that guys like Cisco, Greene, JT, and Beno are not so egocentric as to think they should be starters. That's 5 starters and 4 bench, all happy to be where they are.

I don't worry much about attracting people to the team as any basketball expert, as I presume these three are, can see that this team is going somewhere and they are needed not to be a star but to make the team a well balanced 9-some of offense and defense at every position.

The city was once seen as the pits but perhaps CWebb's comments have changed the outside world's view of the city. What better salesman for a free agent to listen to? If I was any one of the three, I'd give CWebb a holler and Petrie should encourage that.

As to salary, Kirelinko is too young to take a pay cut from $17 mil to $4 mil. Prince is pretty pricey also. Battier is bargain basement for what he could give us. Hopefully, the price tag is not the limiter but then I dream.

It's exciting times for the Kings if it weren't for distractions.

Oh, before I quit, I think the draft pick could be traded and Omri needs to be traded. If we get Battier, we don't need the draft pick unless we can get a SF who projects to be better than what we have at the moment. I'm not sure if that person will be around either because they player decides not to come out or is gone by the time of our pick.

In any case, a trade involving the #1 pick and Omri could get a very talented young stud at any position but this is drifting too far into speculation. Omri needs to be traded as I think he will become a distraction and certainly will not be either happy or the piece we need.

As crazy as this might seem, and this is totally dependent on the idea that we keep what we have, I fear the possibility of having too many guys who NEED to be starters. At least in their own mind. :)

Dalembert - starter
Cousins - starter
Thornton - starter
Tyreke - starter
FA - starter

I can't imagine anyone changing that. I know some people want Thronton to come off the bench. Limiting a guy who can shoot, can pass, and can rebound to bench player's minutes seems like an unefficent use of talent.



Who's the AI some people refer to?
Click to expand...

Iggy.
 
The world changed when we acquired Thornton. All of a sudden the need for that SF to be a thrid weapon dissipated. In fact not only did it become not a need, now it would actually be a problem. With Reke/Cousins and Thronton all young and not even close to their primes yet, not only do they already take all the shots, but in the future they may take even more. There just is not room for another big shot muncher out there. Only way it would have any chance of working now is if Thronton returned to the bench and you had Reke/Cousins/SF as your 1/2/3 and Thronton as your big bench punch. But even then you'd have 4 guys taking 60+ of your shots a night, meaning everybody else would be lucky to get 5 a night.

So with all that said, instead of a #3 weapon, we can now turn this spot over to defense, which is what basically every good team does when it has its offensive roles filled. Artest is there for a reason. So is Thabo. Afflalo. Ariza. Etc. Kirilenko remains my favorite of the bunch. He is not lights out as a shooter, but he can hit the three, he has tremendous length meaning he can give us another shotblocking presence, you can matchup smallball with him at PF for stretches. Adn the thing people often overlook with him is that he is an excellent passer who has averaged over 4apg in several seasons. So he could help keep things flowing out there. I would love to have Battier on the team, but I think his skills are eroding, and combined with his offensive impotence I don't think you can make him your defensive guru anymore wihtout it being a very short term thing. Prince has got a great set of skills, minus any passing. But the thing that has always bothered me about him -- he's a walking corpse out there that makes Kevin Martin look like an inspirational speaker -- has only become more of a concern after he and the rest of the old Dtetroit farts showed their true colors this year in Detroit and started staging walkouts and crap on their coach. Not exactly the vet leadership to bring this all together. Also, because fo the nature of his game I think Iggy can stay in the conversation as a defensive specialist even if scoring is no longer needed. The shooting is a huge issue though, and it would only work if Thornton starts and Reke drastically improves his shot over the summer (or Iggy himself would be welcome to actually get a 3pt shot too). He's also very expensive, he doesn't have the great size of an Ak47 or Prince, although so long as we start the Twin Tower frontline that would not really be a concern, and one of his real strengths -- ballhandling/passing to realy take the pressure off -- could be a concern because he is sued to having the ball in his hands so much he would have to adjust.
 
I didn't know the details of each person's game. I look to the leadership as coming from Cousins, believe it or not. Not today, perhaps, but he is liked, is a force that can't be ignored, and as that, is inspirational. He needs Cisco to balance some of his "eagerness." :) Hence, Prince doesn't need to offer any of that. He's just a "been there, done that" type of person. Defense, absolutely. We need defense from that position.

I really like Granger but am not sure if he has been forced to score or if that is really what he has to do personally. He certainly can score but ... does he need to or could he fit? I'd love to trade the first round pick and Omri for him. I really don't know Granger except from stats.

Battier would be fine if we had an up and coming SF which we don't. That's a problem but is not immediate. I'm very happy Sloan retired as I think that changes the dynamics of where AK47 plays. My attitude is sign him (and Dalembert) and to hell with the salary but that attitude doesn't work here. Just in New York, LA, and the like. Sigh!
 
I have a feeling the Kings are really looking to trade the pick.
FWIW, when Grant and Jerry were talking about the upcoming draft, Jerry mentioned it's important to scout the players, even if you are looking to trade the pick.
There's really no reason to make that remark, and Jerry is usually straightforward about that sort of thing.
 
I would love to get AK, and he's #1 on my wishlist, above Granger and Wallace. I highly doubt Por will move Wallace, although I really don't see thm keeping Wallace/Batuum/Matthews/Roy. That's a hell of a lot of wings, not even mentioning Rudy. But they're short on bigs, given the Oden situation is completely up in the air, and Odens a FA.

The problem I see with going after AK, is not how he fits, or the cost, but who we'll be competing with. Prohkorov wants him, has said so publicly, and they know eachother. Add to that DWill is now in NJ. That could be tough, with AK having an opportunity to play for a russian, with his friend and former pg, with them moving into brooklyn the following season. But I'd go after him, hard.
 
rainmaker said:
I would love to get AK, and he's #1 on my wishlist, above Granger and Wallace. I highly doubt Por will move Wallace, although I really don't see thm keeping Wallace/Batuum/Matthews/Roy. That's a hell of a lot of wings, not even mentioning Rudy. But they're short on bigs, given the Oden situation is completely up in the air, and Odens a FA.

The problem I see with going after AK, is not how he fits, or the cost, but who we'll be competing with. Prohkorov wants him, has said so publicly, and they know eachother. Add to that DWill is now in NJ. That could be tough, with AK having an opportunity to play for a russian, with his friend and former pg, with them moving into brooklyn the following season. But I'd go after him, hard.
Click to expand...

Now we are getting down to the fine details. I don't know if a Russian wants to play for a Russian but that seems possible. What is more likely is that a Russian might want to play in front of Russians and there are quite a few in this area. Just thinkin.' :)
 
So fantasy offseason is:

a) Sacto gets to retain the Kings
b) signs Adelman to be the coach
c) signs AK47 to be the starting SF
d) signs Battier to be the backup SF/SG/6th man guy, based on relatinship to Adelman

If nothig else gets done at all, that's a young playoff looking team.
 
Bricklayer said:
So fantasy offseason is:

a) Sacto gets to retain the Kings
b) signs Adelman to be the coach
c) signs AK47 to be the starting SF
d) signs Battier to be the backup SF/SG/6th man guy, based on relatinship to Adelman

If nothig else gets done at all, that's a young playoff looking team.
Click to expand...

Don't wake up!
 
Bricklayer said:
So fantasy offseason is:

a) Sacto gets to retain the Kings
b) signs Adelman to be the coach
c) signs AK47 to be the starting SF
d) signs Battier to be the backup SF/SG/6th man guy, based on relatinship to Adelman

If nothig else gets done at all, that's a young playoff looking team.
Click to expand...

that is a mighty fine looking checklist there. i like it. i dont know if anyone on this forum can find any flaws with it at all. but i'll be happy if we just get option A
 
Bricklayer said:
So fantasy offseason is:

a) Sacto gets to retain the Kings
b) signs Adelman to be the coach
c) signs AK47 to be the starting SF
d) signs Battier to be the backup SF/SG/6th man guy, based on relatinship to Adelman

If nothig else gets done at all, that's a young playoff looking team.
Click to expand...

Im on the AK 47 bus, think he would be the perfect role player for this team. My big concern with him is the amount of games he has missed over the last 3 years.
 
Hoovtrain said:
Im on the AK 47 bus, think he would be the perfect role player for this team. My big concern with him is the amount of games he has missed over the last 3 years.
Click to expand...

That's a concern, but I don't think there's been anything chronic about his injuries or a clear sign he's breaking down. Still, I'd try to keep his minutes down to avoid the IR.

Kirilenko is my first choice. Plenty left in the tank, clearly okay being a glue guy/roleplayer, willing passer, strong defender etc AND far from a lock to resign with his current team. But the whispers have been all along that Prokorov has a friendship with him and is AK47 wants to go there. But again, pick up the phone and force him to say no. Because he's a great fit for this yount team IMO.

I've been vocal about the Kings exploring trades for their pick. There's no one that I see being a great fit and this young team has enough guys to try to develop already. I like Irving. I don't see him as a surefire stud, but I think he's the best player in an abnormally weak draft. Still, he's a poor fit next to Tyreke. For those that want to move Evans to SG, or have always refused the idea that he's a PG - fine. But calling him/moving him to SG doesn't change the fact that he's ball dominant and FAR less effective without the ball in his hands.

That's not to say I want to see the Kings trade the pick just to trade it, but a top five pick (maybe even #1 or #2) perhaps packaged with Casspi and with caproom to absorb more money in return opens up a LOT of possibilities.

Obviously all eyes are on the saga of whether or not the Kings stay or relocate and what is being done on both sides by the Maloofs, KJ, Stern and all the other players, but don't lose sight of the fact that Petrie has a chance this summer to drastically change this team's fortunes.
 
I have always been a AK-47 fan, but I think I would rather have Battier. Battier is a lock down defender and would bring much needed leadership to the Kings.
 
we sorely need some veteran leadership

I'm all for bringing AK in, but like someone already mentioned, he will most likely get snatched by the Nets.
He's buddies with Prokhorov, Deron Williams is running the show, and they are moving to quite possibly the biggest Russian community in the United States. Kirilenko loves his homeland and has expressed interest in returning to Russia to play ball. This is the closest to home that he can get while still being comfortable.

However, I would LOVE to have Grant Hill. Yes, he's 38, but he is respected by everyone in the league and our young guns need some much needed tutelage from someone like Grant. Add to the fact that he is still a very solid player for his age and is the quintessential glue guy.
 
dbfish said:
I have always been a AK-47 fan, but I think I would rather have Battier. Battier is a lock down defender and would bring much needed leadership to the Kings.
Click to expand...

I love both guys, but I have to go with Kirilenko. He's three years younger than Battier, and his defensive stats are almost identical to Battiers. I would say that Battier is a smarter defensive player, and that Kirilenko is a longer and more athletic defensive player. Plus Kirilenko can guard some of the PF's in the league.
 
The thing that worries me about AK47 is the fact that he shot below 30% from 3 the 2 seasons before last season and he is only 31% for his career. We really need someone who can shoot the 3 from that spot and Battier/Prince fit that bill much better.
 
aa) Maloofs sell to an owner with deep pockets and a desire to win basketball games

Bricklayer said:
So fantasy offseason is:

a) Sacto gets to retain the Kings
b) signs Adelman to be the coach
c) signs AK47 to be the starting SF
d) signs Battier to be the backup SF/SG/6th man guy, based on relatinship to Adelman

If nothig else gets done at all, that's a young playoff looking team.
Click to expand...
 
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