SL Kings vs Rockets game thread
- Thread starter steelevt
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The more you watch, you can see something glaring. What could of rotations and line ups do we have. Is Bobby Jackson actually coaching or did he do this for a free trip to Las Vegas ? I mean I have lost count on how many times the team gives the ball to him at the 3 point line. Also no one seems to be calling him out on his defense. Should should chew him out and tell him he has to try.
He just needs to slow down his game. Love his hustle and you can certainly see the potential. He had a nice stretch in the 3rd, a couple jumpers, offensive rebound, slash. But I did have to laugh in the 4th Q where he made a nice defensive rebound in traffic, shot himself out of a cannon, and threw a cross court bounce pass that missed by 10 feet.
He can really fly up and down the court, though. He's going to get a couple easy baskets a game the way he runs the floor - IF we had any guards that liked to pass.
He can really fly up and down the court, though. He's going to get a couple easy baskets a game the way he runs the floor - IF we had any guards that liked to pass.
as much as I love Bobby Jackson, he is not really an assistant coach that can come in and a fill in for a head coach. His team looks like they are playing pickup basketball out there when he is coaching. Trob has barely gotten the ball in the post at all. Mostly getting it a the 3 pt line and then trying to drive by his man. Bobby doesn't know how to coach at all. He is more of a player development coach.
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This is based on what we are seeing on a basketball court. Kid has 16 turnovers and only 13FGs in his first three games. He hasn't made one good post move, almost never tries them. His game seems to consist entrely of mad charges from the 3pt line hoping there will be a whistle blown. He had one impressive rebound this game, and promptly reaced out and threw the outlet pass out of bounds. And his defense has been bad, in a troubling way. Not only is he not getting it done, but the way he plays it with his hands down and no challenges he could not possibly get it done. And all of this is against sub-NBA level competition.
I need to fly out to Vegas, hire one of the local heavies to knock BJax off, and take over coaching this team for the next game. I'd call a steady diet of postups, pick and rolls, and pick and pops until TRob puked, or I did. Or maybe the audience. SOMEBODY though would be puking before I was done, and I would have a helluva lot better idea if we even drafted a PF or not.
I need to fly out to Vegas, hire one of the local heavies to knock BJax off, and take over coaching this team for the next game. I'd call a steady diet of postups, pick and rolls, and pick and pops until TRob puked, or I did. Or maybe the audience. SOMEBODY though would be puking before I was done, and I would have a helluva lot better idea if we even drafted a PF or not.
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Defense: looks like he's not evening trying, mostly has hands down and lets his man score. Like he's playing with 5 fouls.
Shooting: several complete airballs off the dribble.
Robinson looks like an entirely different player than the one who played in Kansas and took his team to the championship game. Not sure what is going on... Coaching? Not sure what his role is? Not used to NBA size? Jitters? I don't know. It's still WAY to early to call anyone a bust. In general, its the backcourt players that look good in summer league since it is more pickup basketball style.
Shooting: several complete airballs off the dribble.
Robinson looks like an entirely different player than the one who played in Kansas and took his team to the championship game. Not sure what is going on... Coaching? Not sure what his role is? Not used to NBA size? Jitters? I don't know. It's still WAY to early to call anyone a bust. In general, its the backcourt players that look good in summer league since it is more pickup basketball style.
Remember the days before the internet made us all uberreactive ***holes? I can only imagine what the uproar would have been when Jerry Rice, whom the Niners moved up in the draft to nab, had trouble catching and holding onto the ball at the start of his career. While TRob does not equal the greatest football player of all time, the point remains that we should all probably calm down and let things play out a bit before we give ourselves fatal coronaries.
Cousins played very well for half the summer league, and then was atrocious for the other half. Robinson has played poorly so far, but there is still half of the summer league to go, so it is a bit premature to give up on him or assign him a new position.
And really you can't make any sort of judgements about a player based on summer league. The quality of team play is all over the map and you are looking at a very small sample size of games anyway.
Some players, like Anthony Randoplh, dominate summer league and then accomplish nothing in the league. On the other hand, Kevin Durant looked terrible in summer league, but is now one of the best players in the league.
And really you can't make any sort of judgements about a player based on summer league. The quality of team play is all over the map and you are looking at a very small sample size of games anyway.
Some players, like Anthony Randoplh, dominate summer league and then accomplish nothing in the league. On the other hand, Kevin Durant looked terrible in summer league, but is now one of the best players in the league.
This is what REALLY bothers me. I don't see them making any effort to play the right way. To play the way they will in an NBA game. It just looks like a pickup game out there. They are just throwing away a good opportunity to show TRob and Jimmer how they will be used during the season. Summer league becomes completely useless if they are going to let people play out of position. I won't be surprised when I see them playing this way during the regular season because they thought they got away with it now. It's going to be like Donte all over again, remember how long it took us to break him away from chucking threes constantly?
I'm a little concerned about TRob but I really want to see him on the court with Cousins. He is our tallest SL guy isn't he? He is up against centers. We are the only team to (rightfully) ignore the seven footers like Zeller and really weren't in a position to get a tall guy. Most other teams need tall guys as there just aren't many in the league. So TRob goes against centers. Kind of like his last year in college.
Let's wait.
Let's wait.
This need for instant gratification is way over the top. Relax people. The kid has played 3 freaking Summer league games. While we all would like to see the players we root for have success, it's not always immediate. In fact, the majority of the time it is far from immediate. It usually takes some time. Besides, it's not like there is really any type of real structure with this Summer league team. It looks more like a pickup game. Everybody is trying to get their own.
I've seen Robinson display enough skill in this Summer league that I'm not too worried about him. While he may never be a super star or maybe even as good as Cuz, players with high motors and drive to succeed, especially those with Robinson's physical talents, usually end up succeeding. I like the quickness and speed I've seen as well as the ability to handle. Once Clifford Ray gets a chance to work with him, I think we'll see a ton of improvement. Look at what he accomplished in a short amount of time with DeMarcus and JT last season. JT looked like a different player at times.
In short, have a little patience. I get the criticism with a player like Tyreke that's been in the league for 3-4 seasons. I even somewhat understand the criticism of players such as Jimmer, who at least have one season under their belt. But give Robinson a free pass for the time being. It's makes no sense not to.
I've seen Robinson display enough skill in this Summer league that I'm not too worried about him. While he may never be a super star or maybe even as good as Cuz, players with high motors and drive to succeed, especially those with Robinson's physical talents, usually end up succeeding. I like the quickness and speed I've seen as well as the ability to handle. Once Clifford Ray gets a chance to work with him, I think we'll see a ton of improvement. Look at what he accomplished in a short amount of time with DeMarcus and JT last season. JT looked like a different player at times.
In short, have a little patience. I get the criticism with a player like Tyreke that's been in the league for 3-4 seasons. I even somewhat understand the criticism of players such as Jimmer, who at least have one season under their belt. But give Robinson a free pass for the time being. It's makes no sense not to.
Kevin Durant looked like a too skinny kid. He also still averaged 24ppg. Just couldn't bang with the full grown men.
That's part of the concern here. TRob is old for a modern rookie. Supposedly/theoretically that was one of the reasons we took him -- because he would be NBA ready. Has a full grown body, from a major program. This is the guy who's supposed to be what he is and know what he's about, like Jimmer last year. And when he comes out and its just amateur hour, and it hasn't changed or improved game to game...
There is some talent there, both physical and with the ball. But if you knew nothing about the NBA and I told you that the #5 pick was playing in this game today without telling you anything more about which team or anything, you might have tagged 5 guys as being that pick before you would have hit upon Robinson.
That's part of the concern here. TRob is old for a modern rookie. Supposedly/theoretically that was one of the reasons we took him -- because he would be NBA ready. Has a full grown body, from a major program. This is the guy who's supposed to be what he is and know what he's about, like Jimmer last year. And when he comes out and its just amateur hour, and it hasn't changed or improved game to game...
There is some talent there, both physical and with the ball. But if you knew nothing about the NBA and I told you that the #5 pick was playing in this game today without telling you anything more about which team or anything, you might have tagged 5 guys as being that pick before you would have hit upon Robinson.
The issue isn't that he's not succeeding, it's that he doesn't appear to be trying to do certain things, and certainly isn't being coached to do those things either.
Compare the situation with JT in his rookie/ first few seasons. He was trying to defend, but often didn't keep his hands straight up. This resulted in him picking up lots of fouls. He was in the post trying to score, but kept fumbling his layups or travelling or not catching balls cleanly. TRob on the other hand, hasn't had his hands up and hasn't been in the post. He's not playing like a PF. And when you draft a PF, you kinda would like him to play like one, no?
For me it's definitely not an issue of whether he's a bust or not. It's way too early to tell. I also see him trying hard but I think he's putting his energy into the wrong areas for a PF. Kinda like Hassan Whiteside focussing on scoring instead of blocking shots and rebounding. Having a great motor is of no use if you're using it on the wrong thing. My question is - when are we going to see some PF play?
Compare the situation with JT in his rookie/ first few seasons. He was trying to defend, but often didn't keep his hands straight up. This resulted in him picking up lots of fouls. He was in the post trying to score, but kept fumbling his layups or travelling or not catching balls cleanly. TRob on the other hand, hasn't had his hands up and hasn't been in the post. He's not playing like a PF. And when you draft a PF, you kinda would like him to play like one, no?
For me it's definitely not an issue of whether he's a bust or not. It's way too early to tell. I also see him trying hard but I think he's putting his energy into the wrong areas for a PF. Kinda like Hassan Whiteside focussing on scoring instead of blocking shots and rebounding. Having a great motor is of no use if you're using it on the wrong thing. My question is - when are we going to see some PF play?
I don't know what that statement was supposed to mean, but DeMarcus Cousins could easily be the league's next superstar, and the TRob we have been watching to this point would do well to even squeeze the sweat out of his socks after practice.
Two things:
1) older rookie. TRob is Cousins' age. DeMarcus averaged 18 and 11 last year agaisnt NBA opponent, and was apparently sometimes the best player on the court in scrimmages for Team USA. It goes without saying that he would savage summer league opponents in ways that would be illegal in all 50 states. TRob still has the adjust to the NBA excuse, and its a solid one. But there is no way he should have the "gotta learn how to play" excuse that the really young 18/19 yr old guys do.
2) because we selected him #5, and because this is merely summer leauge, I actually agree that we have no choice but to stay the course. you don't trade guys after a bad summer league of thier rookie season. But if that is true, and I think it is, we are in peril now. We appear to have chosen against getting a shotblocker or other help up front. TRob was our big play up front. As a high pick we are committed to him, have to be. But if he is not ready, and the guy in these summer league games is NOT ready, we are no better off than we were last year with Hickson, another great athlete who did not know how to effectively use it for us. And yet since we can't give up on TRob, we are potentially stuck going down that path, knowing its a possibility and still heading toward it anyway.
Two things:
1) older rookie. TRob is Cousins' age. DeMarcus averaged 18 and 11 last year agaisnt NBA opponent, and was apparently sometimes the best player on the court in scrimmages for Team USA. It goes without saying that he would savage summer league opponents in ways that would be illegal in all 50 states. TRob still has the adjust to the NBA excuse, and its a solid one. But there is no way he should have the "gotta learn how to play" excuse that the really young 18/19 yr old guys do.
2) because we selected him #5, and because this is merely summer leauge, I actually agree that we have no choice but to stay the course. you don't trade guys after a bad summer league of thier rookie season. But if that is true, and I think it is, we are in peril now. We appear to have chosen against getting a shotblocker or other help up front. TRob was our big play up front. As a high pick we are committed to him, have to be. But if he is not ready, and the guy in these summer league games is NOT ready, we are no better off than we were last year with Hickson, another great athlete who did not know how to effectively use it for us. And yet since we can't give up on TRob, we are potentially stuck going down that path, knowing its a possibility and still heading toward it anyway.
I do not get the skepticism with Thomas Robinson with you. He has only played 3 summer League games and I know he has not played extremely well, but it will be a whole different game by October. He will be better with the 3 months of offseason after summer league, entire month of training camp and actually practicing with his teammates, have not seen him play with Cousins yet, and has still shown he is aggressive, hard effort, decent passer, and will bang the boards ( I know not many in SL but after seeing this guy in college, they will come).
I do not agree with the pessimism on TRob. He is only 21 and just started the game. Cousins averaged 15 and 10 in SL with 30 min and Thomas is averaging 14 and 8 in SL. Not too far off and I am sure he will be a productive player for the Kings by the time the season starts.
I do not agree with the pessimism on TRob. He is only 21 and just started the game. Cousins averaged 15 and 10 in SL with 30 min and Thomas is averaging 14 and 8 in SL. Not too far off and I am sure he will be a productive player for the Kings by the time the season starts.
I would also like to add an interesting stat of Cousins in his Summer League that you need to realize.
This is Cousins stat line of his first 3 games.
1-12 6 points 6 rebounds 5 TOs
3-15 10 points 7 rebounds 3 TOS
5-18 16 points 12 rebounds 6 TOs 10 PFs
Doesn't look too good huh? You probably will bring up his age difference but I mean come on, 3 SL games doesnt mean anything right now.
This is Cousins stat line of his first 3 games.
1-12 6 points 6 rebounds 5 TOs
3-15 10 points 7 rebounds 3 TOS
5-18 16 points 12 rebounds 6 TOs 10 PFs
Doesn't look too good huh? You probably will bring up his age difference but I mean come on, 3 SL games doesnt mean anything right now.
a) the age difference is big
b) BUT you have the numbers reversed. Those were his last 3 games.
Game 1: 26min 14pts 10reb 1ast 5-11FG
Game 2: 31min 19pts 12reb 3ast 8-20FG
Game 3: 35min 22pts 12reb 5ast 9-17FG
Game 4: 28min 16pts 12reb 2ast 5-18FG
Game 5: 31min 10pts 7reb 0ast 3-15FG (quit)
Game 6: 27min 6pts 6reb 0ast 1-12FG (quit)
Now briefly the story there was obvious to anybody watching -- our coaching staff wanted to teach Cousins a lesson about NBA shape, so they played him until he dropped, even when he wanted to come out. His got tired, asked to come out, Elie refused to do it, so he quit. It was the beginning of the feud with the coaching staff, and frankly they fired themselves. But he was briliant before the mind games began.
More importantly you know what I watch when I watch non-NBA games or hihglight reels or any of that stuff? I watch skills. I don't care whether shots go in, I don't care whether turnovers are made, I don't care about anything except what can a guy do or not do. And that is where DeMarcus Cousins was the most talented big I had seen in a decade at least. The things he could do made his numbers irrelevant. And on the flipside, that is the huge concern with Robinson now. I'm watching skills. And right now he has shown almost no PF skills at all (Jumping high is not a PF skill. In fact its as much a SF skill.) Not only skills, mentality. He isn't thinking like a PF at either end of the court. The saving grace is that he HAS shown some SF skills, and hence the SF chatter with him. But right now his game makes no sense. And I don't care how inefficient he has been, how poorly he has shot etc. What I care about are the skills he has shown or not shown. Because those in the end will determine his position. And what he has not shown is offensive post game, defensive post defense, interior help defense, or even exceptional rebounding instincts. In other words, he has essentially showed no PF skills. If he was named Tom Smith and had been playing in Europe for the past three years and was just a summer league invite, there is no way you would identify him as a PF the way he has played thus far.
Unfortunately I DO understand peeps LACK of scepticism toward TRob right now, and its entirely based on college excitement. Same mistake people made with Jimmer. Its a new world. Every year guys who peeps loved in college don't work out. Evan Turner was going to tear up the league. And Wes Johnson, and Kemba Walker, and Corey Brewer and Tyrus Thomas and Michael Beasely and Derrick Williams and the list just goes on. Being good in college doesn't guarantee anything. So I'm watching him here outside of college, beyond college, looking for clues how he is going to fare at an even higher level than he is playing now, and I am rightfully concerned. Not because he is shooting 33% or averaging 6 TOs or whatever. But because of HOW those numbers are being compiled, and what he is and is not doing on the court.
b) BUT you have the numbers reversed. Those were his last 3 games.
Game 1: 26min 14pts 10reb 1ast 5-11FG
Game 2: 31min 19pts 12reb 3ast 8-20FG
Game 3: 35min 22pts 12reb 5ast 9-17FG
Game 4: 28min 16pts 12reb 2ast 5-18FG
Game 5: 31min 10pts 7reb 0ast 3-15FG (quit)
Game 6: 27min 6pts 6reb 0ast 1-12FG (quit)
Now briefly the story there was obvious to anybody watching -- our coaching staff wanted to teach Cousins a lesson about NBA shape, so they played him until he dropped, even when he wanted to come out. His got tired, asked to come out, Elie refused to do it, so he quit. It was the beginning of the feud with the coaching staff, and frankly they fired themselves. But he was briliant before the mind games began.
More importantly you know what I watch when I watch non-NBA games or hihglight reels or any of that stuff? I watch skills. I don't care whether shots go in, I don't care whether turnovers are made, I don't care about anything except what can a guy do or not do. And that is where DeMarcus Cousins was the most talented big I had seen in a decade at least. The things he could do made his numbers irrelevant. And on the flipside, that is the huge concern with Robinson now. I'm watching skills. And right now he has shown almost no PF skills at all (Jumping high is not a PF skill. In fact its as much a SF skill.) Not only skills, mentality. He isn't thinking like a PF at either end of the court. The saving grace is that he HAS shown some SF skills, and hence the SF chatter with him. But right now his game makes no sense. And I don't care how inefficient he has been, how poorly he has shot etc. What I care about are the skills he has shown or not shown. Because those in the end will determine his position. And what he has not shown is offensive post game, defensive post defense, interior help defense, or even exceptional rebounding instincts. In other words, he has essentially showed no PF skills. If he was named Tom Smith and had been playing in Europe for the past three years and was just a summer league invite, there is no way you would identify him as a PF the way he has played thus far.
Unfortunately I DO understand peeps LACK of scepticism toward TRob right now, and its entirely based on college excitement. Same mistake people made with Jimmer. Its a new world. Every year guys who peeps loved in college don't work out. Evan Turner was going to tear up the league. And Wes Johnson, and Kemba Walker, and Corey Brewer and Tyrus Thomas and Michael Beasely and Derrick Williams and the list just goes on. Being good in college doesn't guarantee anything. So I'm watching him here outside of college, beyond college, looking for clues how he is going to fare at an even higher level than he is playing now, and I am rightfully concerned. Not because he is shooting 33% or averaging 6 TOs or whatever. But because of HOW those numbers are being compiled, and what he is and is not doing on the court.
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I'll piggy-back on this line of reasoning:
Between the last 2 offseasons, there were reports (of varying veracity) that suggested that many vets would likely have been available for the Kings if they had traded the draft pick, ranging from Tony Parker, to Paul Pierce, to Rondo, to Pau Gasol, to Kyle Lowry, etc.
Instead of any of those deals or others we don't know about, the Kings (and Petrie) overvalued the picks and burnt them on Jimmer and T-Rob while giving up Beno and tacking on Salmon's contract.
Seriously, unless TRob turns out to be VERY good, Petrie NEEDS to go for the good of the team.
Most Definitely.
Between the last 2 offseasons, there were reports (of varying veracity) that suggested that many vets would likely have been available for the Kings if they had traded the draft pick, ranging from Tony Parker, to Paul Pierce, to Rondo, to Pau Gasol, to Kyle Lowry, etc.
Instead of any of those deals or others we don't know about, the Kings (and Petrie) overvalued the picks and burnt them on Jimmer and T-Rob while giving up Beno and tacking on Salmon's contract.
Seriously, unless TRob turns out to be VERY good, Petrie NEEDS to go for the good of the team.
Most Definitely.
Jimmer is a volume scorer on a team with Cousins, Tyreke, Isaiah, Thornton. He's just not useful to us and we'd be better off trying to trade him somewhere while he has some value. We need him to be a spot up shooter, but he's not, and hes a complete liability on defense. I won't pass judgement on T Rob until he's actually playing with our main guys, maybe with the defense focusing on our better players, he can be that off the ball menace that uses his strenght to finish at the rim, he's not a pass it to him, iso player, we don't need that on this team.
