Should the Kings blow it up and retool?

Should the Kings blow it up?


  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
#61
I'll add to this. Blow what up? It's already been blown up and not put back together. Blowing a team up usually means you have a player or players the team is built around and you trade them to go another direction, IE Cuz.
I liken the idea to selling stock when its low. I mean...wUt?
 
#62
I'll add to this. Blow what up? It's already been blown up and not put back together.
Recognizing the lack of top level talent, pushing the timeline forward for couple of years, trading players that arent going to be a part of that timeline for assets and trying again when you have drafted more/better top level talent and when you have a flexible cap situation.

Blowing a team up usually means you have a player or players the team is built around and you trade them to go another direction, IE Cuz.
Blowing up could also mean other things. In this case we made a bunch of win now moves. We got vets like Barnes, Ariza, Deadmond and Joseph that cost us 61million dollars per year and all of them are pretty much just role players. Blowing it up could just mean trading those vets since we wont be really competitive for couple of years anyway.

I liken the idea to selling stock when its low. I mean...wUt?
Thats a very bad analogy. If a team is in a situation where the cap flexibility is closing, there are no extra future assets and the core we've built is looking like a 30-43 win team, thats just not good and something has to be done even if we just "blew it up". There were better moves to be made for the gm but that gm didnt make those moves so now we are stuck in this situation where we have been for the last decade. Team that is capable to win maybe 40 games in a good year but not nearly good enough to be a serious contender. Its fully understandable if this isn't the pinnacle thats satisfying a fanbase that has rooted for a team that has been the worst franchise of the whole decade.
 
Last edited:
#63
Embiid not sounding happy I’m officially hoping Philadelphia fails and they have to trade him I’d sell the farm for him.

Fox/Buddy/Bagley/Bjelica and multiple 1sts
For
Embiid/Harris

wishful thinking
 
Last edited:
#64
Embiid not sounding happy I’m officially hoping Philadelphia fails and they have to trade him I’d sell the farm for him.

Fox/Buddy/Bagley/Bjelica and multiple 1sts
For
Embiid/Harris

wishful thinking
Just the other day Al Horford was not happy either.....something is up in Philly despite them beating some really good teams.
 
#65
Just the other day Al Horford was not happy either.....something is up in Philly despite them beating some really good teams.
There 3-7 in there last 10 and I don’t think Ben/Embiid play styles match something’s gotta give. Ben looks extremely impressive in a fast environment while Embiid needs to play slow
 
#66
Man, I don't care what that MacMullan article stated; Embiid shooting 3s is stupid and they are only scheming those into the offense because Simmons can't shoot. Yeah, I'd trade anything except Fox to get Embiid, and you know Vlade would feel the same.

As an aside--at a certain point, when a guy like Trae Young is leading in the All-Star fan vote and a talent like Embiid is struggling to put his stamp on games, at times, don't we need to reevaluate all of the rules changes? A top 5 talent like Embiid should not be getting legislated into misappropriating his skills. Such a shame...
 
#67
To answer the poll question, I think we are heading for a major re-tooling this summer irrespective of making the playoffs or not. My bold prediction is that Bagley and Buddy are packaged for an unhappy or ill-fitting superstar this summer.
 
#68
Embiid not sounding happy I’m officially hoping Philadelphia fails and they have to trade him I’d sell the farm for him.

Fox/Buddy/Bagley/Bjelica and multiple 1sts
For
Embiid/Harris

wishful thinking
Talk about overpaying lol. You would be made fun of worse than Vlade for making this Philly move lol.
 
#69
Talk about overpaying lol. You would be made fun of worse than Vlade for making this Philly move lol.
Theres no such thing as overpaying for a top 5 player whose 25 and in his prime. Plus we’d be getting Tobias Harris back whose a very good player at a good age. We wouldn’t be the only team making an offer for an Embiid the team that gets him will have to overpay.

Man, I don't care what that MacMullan article stated; Embiid shooting 3s is stupid and they are only scheming those into the offense because Simmons can't shoot. Yeah, I'd trade anything except Fox to get Embiid, and you know Vlade would feel the same.

As an aside--at a certain point, when a guy like Trae Young is leading in the All-Star fan vote and a talent like Embiid is struggling to put his stamp on games, at times, don't we need to reevaluate all of the rules changes? A top 5 talent like Embiid should not be getting legislated into misappropriating his skills. Such a shame...
He has to shoot 3s they have no spacing with AL/Harris/Ben all starting that’s 3 PFs in one lineup. I’m a perfect world he only shots 2-3 3s a game
 
#70
Recognizing the lack of top level talent, pushing the timeline forward for couple of years, trading players that arent going to be a part of that timeline for assets and trying again when you have drafted more/better top level talent and when you have a flexible cap situation.



Blowing up could also mean other things. In this case we made a bunch of win now moves. We got vets like Barnes, Ariza, Deadmond and Joseph that cost us 61million dollars per year and all of them are pretty much just role players. Blowing it up could just mean trading those vets since we wont be really competitive for couple of years anyway.



Thats a very bad analogy. If a team is in a situation where the cap flexibility is closing, there are no extra future assets and the core we've built is looking like a 30-43 win team, thats just not good and something has to be done even if we just "blew it up". There were better moves to be made for the gm but that gm didnt make those moves so now we are stuck in this situation where we have been for the last decade. Team that is capable to win maybe 40 games in a good year but not nearly good enough to be a serious contender. Its fully understandable if this isn't the pinnacle thats satisfying a fanbase that has rooted for a team that has been the worst franchise of the whole decade.
Trying again and again and again in the draft? It's hasn't worked to great. Plus new lotto rule make it even more pointless.

Barnes is in his prime, he's a consistent vet. You understand they had to sign players to make the roster and low cap limits? They had to sign someone.

What better moves? How do you know those weren't the best? They tried for Beverly and got turned down.
 
#71
If you're going to fail, fail fast.
I hadn’t heard this phrase used in the context of the Kings’ org, but if it’s circling, now things make more sense. Vivek is running the franchise as if it were a tech company. This is hilariously (horrifyingly?) misguided.
 
#72
Trying again and again and again in the draft? It's hasn't worked to great. Plus new lotto rule make it even more pointless.
Thats why getting a new GM is part of the "blowing up" or "retooling". Get someone that finds those asset acquiring trades and someone that can use those assets smartly. Lotto rules still incentivie being in the "bottom 3-5" instead of going to the lottery as the 10th worst team. Not AS much as before but still its a big difference in the odds.

Barnes is in his prime, he's a consistent vet. You understand they had to sign players to make the roster and low cap limits? They had to sign someone.
He also has a huge contract and is part of the reason why we dont have cap flexibility anymore. Also no team is forced to be above the salary floor. If they are under it they just have to pay the difference divided to their players but that doesnt affect the cap numbers.

What better moves? How do you know those weren't the best? They tried for Beverly and got turned down.
Better moves as in drafting Luka (we wouldnt have to retool if we did that), drafting better in the previous drafts, acquiring future assets after trading Cousins while being uncompetitive instead of giving huge contracts to vets like Zbo, Ghill, Barnes, Deadmon ect.
 
#73
Thats why getting a new GM is part of the "blowing up" or "retooling". Get someone that finds those asset acquiring trades and someone that can use those assets smartly. Lotto rules still incentivie being in the "bottom 3-5" instead of going to the lottery as the 10th worst team. Not AS much as before but still its a big difference in the odds.



He also has a huge contract and is part of the reason why we dont have cap flexibility anymore. Also no team is forced to be above the salary floor. If they are under it they just have to pay the difference divided to their players but that doesnt affect the cap numbers.



Better moves as in drafting Luka (we wouldnt have to retool if we did that), drafting better in the previous drafts, acquiring future assets after trading Cousins while being uncompetitive instead of giving huge contracts to vets like Zbo, Ghill, Barnes, Deadmon ect.
Sorry, but teams need vets. We've seen how it works out with a bunch of young guys and it's never worked on other teams either. They never learn how to win.

What makes you think Vivek would hire someone better than Vlade? Vlade's contract runs thru 22/23. They would be hiring a min paid type guy. They aren't paying both for the next 3 years.
 
#74
Sorry, but teams need vets. We've seen how it works out with a bunch of young guys and it's never worked on other teams either. They never learn how to win.
You dont need to spend 40-60million per year for them in the rebuilding phase and spend all your cap for them instead of getting future assets.

What makes you think Vivek would hire someone better than Vlade? Vlade's contract runs thru 22/23. They would be hiring a min paid type guy. They aren't paying both for the next 3 years.
If someone is bad I'm not worrying that someone else could be even worse. I want a good gm that makes smart decisions, thats when I'm satisfied. If the owner cant spend money to get a competent gm, then everyone shoule vocally demand him to sell the team.
 
#75
You dont need to spend 40-60million per year for them in the rebuilding phase and spend all your cap for them instead of getting future assets.



If someone is bad I'm not worrying that someone else could be even worse. I want a good gm that makes smart decisions, thats when I'm satisfied. If the owner cant spend money to get a competent gm, then everyone shoule vocally demand him to sell the team.
Doesn't matter at this point. The contract is in place. Unless Vlade or Walton quits they get paid. They just went through paying Karl and Joerger a the same time, I doubt they want to keep doing it especially if they aren't going to make the playoffs and get the extra revenue.
 
#76
Doesn't matter at this point. The contract is in place. Unless Vlade or Walton quits they get paid. They just went through paying Karl and Joerger a the same time, I doubt they want to keep doing it especially if they aren't going to make the playoffs and get the extra revenue.
Then thats bad ownership and fans should vocally demand that he sells the franchise if thats the case.

If the ownership is the reason we cant have a good gm, then everything should be done to get that owner to sell
 
Last edited:
#77
Honestly, this thread is kind of embarrassing. Our three best players, IMO, have played less then 20 minutes with one another this season. While I think GM Vlade is an idiot, I think patience. is wise.
 
#78
Then thats bad ownership and fans should vocally demand that he sells the franchise if thats the case.

If the ownership is the reason we cant have a good gm, then everything should be done to get that owner to sell
Trouble is, he owns controlling interest. You can scream and holler all day, every day, he has final say. Life isn't as simple as you seem to make it. Do I trust him? No. Would I prefer a different owner, maybe one with deeper pockets? Yes. Do I think that will happen? No.

Simple truth is ownership is an exclusive club.
 
#79
Trouble is, he owns controlling interest. You can scream and holler all day, every day, he has final say. Life isn't as simple as you seem to make it. Do I trust him? No. Would I prefer a different owner, maybe one with deeper pockets? Yes. Do I think that will happen? No.

Simple truth is ownership is an exclusive club.
Its not simple and I'm aware. Fanbase alone cant directly affect anything but they can have a small role in something. Rather than accepting misery and incompetence, the fanbase can be vocal about an incompetent gm and if the voice is lound enough, it might pressure the owner even a little bit. Thats all a fan base can do and hope that its enough to finally get a competent gm. Acting like Grant and accepting a bad gm certainly doesnt affect anything. Being vocal about a bad gm might affect something if the only reason that gm isnt fired is money.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#80
I hadn’t heard this phrase used in the context of the Kings’ org, but if it’s circling, now things make more sense. Vivek is running the franchise as if it were a tech company. This is hilariously (horrifyingly?) misguided.
I haven't brought this up in a while but when people are busily pointing fingers at Vivek, they need to remember whose voice is/has been in his ear the whole time.

HINT:

1578171292148.png
 
#81
I haven't brought this up in a while but when people are busily pointing fingers at Vivek, they need to remember whose voice is/has been in his ear the whole time.

HINT:

View attachment 9451
Honestly, it could be Lucifer himself whispering in his ear and I wouldn’t care. Vivek is the reason I have a team to root for. So my post wasn’t intended to be a value judgement on the man, just an acknowledgement of the flawed premise the front office may be operating under. And I get why they would be, so I’m not even mad about it. *shrug*
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#82
Honestly, it could be Lucifer himself whispering in his ear and I wouldn’t care. Vivek is the reason I have a team to root for. So my post wasn’t intended to be a value judgement on the man, just an acknowledgement of the flawed premise the front office may be operating under. And I get why they would be, so I’m not even mad about it. *shrug*
I hear you. I quoted you but I wanted to remind people that MK is a definite part of the picture. She's been a part of the Kings for over 21 years, through ownership changes, etc. It's widely rumored that she has a lot more influence/pull than most people realize.
 
#83
Honestly, this thread is kind of embarrassing. Our three best players, IMO, have played less then 20 minutes with one another this season. While I think GM Vlade is an idiot, I think patience. is wise.
Bingo

Bogdan also needs to sit until February at least. No way we lose if we have him on the squad last night
 
#86
And what would that be?
Probably stuff like loundly voicing their concerns, loudly demanding the owner to sell the team or at least that he would fire the incompetent gm. When you have fans unhappy loudly demanding something and it becomes news locally and nationally, it creates some pressure for the owner and maybe it has an affect.

And in this case thats just if the money is the only reason why someone cant be fired even if hes been bad. Money should never be the reason for any stuff like that, especially when we are talking about getting a competent guy as a gm since gm makes all the decisions.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#87
Probably stuff like loundly voicing their concerns, loudly demanding the owner to sell the team or at least that he would fire the incompetent gm. When you have fans unhappy loudly demanding something and it becomes news locally and nationally, it creates some pressure for the owner and maybe it has an affect.

And in this case thats just if the money is the only reason why someone cant be fired even if hes been bad. Money should never be the reason for any stuff like that, especially when we are talking about getting a competent guy as a gm since gm makes all the decisions.
I'm addressing your post and not you, just to be clear...

Loudly voicing their concerns? Demanding the owner to sell the team? This just isn't where the majority of Sacramento fans (especially those who attend the games) are at. People on social media aren't the main concern of franchise owners. The people who put their money on the line to sit in the seats, to buy the merch, etc. are the ones to whom the owners might pay more attention.

You keep talking about the fans needing to vocally make demands. That's just not gonna happen...at least not now. I've been a fan of this team since 1985 and been to more games than I can count. For the most part, the people who go to the games go to be entertained. They go to have fun. They go to root for the home team. They just don't show up to make some kind of public statement. They only time they ever did that was when we banded together to save the team.
 
#88
I'm addressing your post and not you, just to be clear...

Loudly voicing their concerns? Demanding the owner to sell the team? This just isn't where the majority of Sacramento fans (especially those who attend the games) are at. People on social media aren't the main concern of franchise owners. The people who put their money on the line to sit in the seats, to buy the merch, etc. are the ones to whom the owners might pay more attention.

You keep talking about the fans needing to vocally make demands. That's just not gonna happen...at least not now. I've been a fan of this team since 1985 and been to more games than I can count. For the most part, the people who go to the games go to be entertained. They go to have fun. They go to root for the home team. They just don't show up to make some kind of public statement. They only time they ever did that was when we banded together to save the team.
Thats understandable and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not demanding anyone to boycott the games or even to criticise. I'm just saying that if the owner puts the team in competitive disadvantage for money saving reasons, its also very understandable and acceptable to criticise him. Thats because if lots of fans feel that way and criticise, maybe it has even a little effect on the owner.
 
#89
If Vivek gets a decent number of season ticket renewals, then nothing will change. If a signficant exodus of season ticket holders hits him and his partners in the wallet... maybe things will change. I've seen some real die hard fans on twitter say they are not renewing, and I've heard rumors of an impending price increase. I guess they will know in a month whether their ticket paying fan base will put up with anything. I'm pretty interested to see myself.
 
#90
I'm addressing your post and not you, just to be clear...

Loudly voicing their concerns? Demanding the owner to sell the team? This just isn't where the majority of Sacramento fans (especially those who attend the games) are at. People on social media aren't the main concern of franchise owners. The people who put their money on the line to sit in the seats, to buy the merch, etc. are the ones to whom the owners might pay more attention.

You keep talking about the fans needing to vocally make demands. That's just not gonna happen...at least not now. I've been a fan of this team since 1985 and been to more games than I can count. For the most part, the people who go to the games go to be entertained. They go to have fun. They go to root for the home team. They just don't show up to make some kind of public statement. They only time they ever did that was when we banded together to save the team.
This is not true. I am a STH lower bowl right at mid-Court several of the fans in my section have voiced displeasure to the front office. This teams performance is not what we pay a ton of $$$ for. Vivek is right now feeling the heat. I guarantee it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.