Should Ronnie Price be the primary backup...or should the Kings look elsewhere?

Amanjoy

Bench
For the past couple of years, the Kings have had great players at the end of their bench that have potential to be stars, but haven't gotten the opportunity. Gerald Wallace was one...but he got stuck on a team that was stacked at his position...bad luck there I guess. Now he's great for the Bobcats. Luckily Kevin MArtin is still with us and is now developing into a star. I think the next guy to emerge is Ronnie PRice.

My beef with Adelman was that he never varied from his routine. He always stuck with the same old thing, and it was great most of the time, but sometimes you gotta shake things up in order to be successful in certain situations. Adelman never gave the opportunity for guys like Wallace, Martin, or Price to shine. He only did it when he was forced to. WAllace never got a look unless Hedo or Peja was hurt. Martin wouldn've still been riding the bench had Bonzi not gotten hurt, and Price would have never seen more than a minute of each game had it not been for an injury plagued game against Dallas in December. With Peja out, the Kings were in desperate need of some sort of lift, and it didn't happen until Ronnie Price came in the game in the 2nd qtr. The guy came in and changed the tone of the game with his speed, quickness, defense and outside shot. He showed absolutely no fear against Jason Terry, and took it right at the Mavs. The Kings had an 8 point lead with about 5 mintues or so to go when all of a sudden, Adelman decides to pull Price and KT out in favor of Bibby and Shareef, and Terry & Dirk proceed to pick n roll the Kings to death and Dirk scores 10 pts in the last 5 minutes, and the Mavs go on to win. That pick n roll combo and the Dirk isolation on the block was not working with Price and KT in there, and as soon as those 2 went out, it all of a sudden became unstoppable.

My point is this: STICK WITH WHAT IS WORKING AT THE MOMENT. Great coaches such as Popovich and Avery Johnson and Phil Jackson will be willing to sit down a star, or anyone else for that matter, in favor of the player that is playing better. Price many times I feel played better in 1 minute than Hart played in 6. Give the guy a chance. He showed he's fearless and he can play D against a top quality guard. Give the guy an opporuntiy to shine in the regular season on a regular basis and it will pay off in the end the way the Devon HArris experiment is now paying off against Tony PArker in the DAL/SA series.

Now, I wasn't a fan of Jason HArt all season until he did a decent job guarding Tony Parker in the limited action he got against him. But, let's face it, the boy's got little to no offense unless he drives to the basket. His jumper is rediculously erratic.

For that reason, I propose that Ronnie Price be given the chance to be the backup PG next year. I know he's unproven and went undrafted as a rookie, but anyone who watched the Kings blowouts this year and one injury plagued game against Dallas saw that this kid has potential to be (in my opinion) the reincarnation of Bobby Jackson. The boy is athletic, can play solid defense, and isn't afraid to shoot the ball when he's open. Devon Harris was well-known, and unproven when he came out, but now he's everywhere for the MAvs in their series with the Spurs. I can't remember him having a single standout game this year until the playoffs, but Avery Johnson stuck with him and gave him the opportunity to back up Jason Terry. He helped the kid through tough times and bad games and didn't keep him on a short leash. Now Johnson's patience is paying dividends as the Mavs have a 2-1 lead and Parker is being forced to work on the offensive and defensive ends of the floor.

My point is that given the opportunity, I think Ronnie Price can be the same type of player. I go to school near UVSC where Price went to school and watched the guy play on a number of occasions, and I said from Day 1 that if he ever made it with an NBA team, he'd be another Bobby JAckson type player. The problem right now is that the former coaching staff never gave the kid an opportunity to shine this season. Harris got the opportunity from Day 1, and now he has the confidence...Price got no such luck this year. Granted, Harris has a year's experience on Price, but that experience was on the court...never at the end of the bench. I'm certain that if he gets the same kind of opportunity to be the #2 guy behind Bibby and even play side by side with Bibby on occasion, that Price will develop into a star in this league. I just pray the new coaching staff sees the same thing and gives this kid a long and hard look this upcoming season at PG. Price has got Hart's D with a better offensive game and more athleticism. Give him extended minutes and watch what happens.
 
Should he be given more court time? Yes. Is he in line to be the primary backup? I think that's a little premature.
 
Be the primary backup based on what?

That would be nuts. We've got exactly zero evidence he can handle that responsibility. If indeed we are trying to be a contender, there is absolutley no way you enter next season basically leaving a gaping hole in your lineup and filling it with a completely untested undrafted FA signee.

People always get fascinated with the underdog 12th men, but you can't be a serious team and decide this is a rotation player for you next year without a lot more evidence: 5.2min 2.1ppg (.362 FG .222 3pt% 1.000 FT%) 0.5reb 0.4ast 0.2stl 0.0blk 0.3TO
 
Don't know, I guess it depends on what happens with Jason Hart. Under a defensive minded coach I could see Hart getting sonsistent minutes, and Jason excercised his option.
 
Primary back-up? I don't think so. Unless we absolutely can't get anyone new for the back-up spot, which is unlikely.

I tend to agree about Hart, STK.
 
Smush Parker wasn't any good either when he was playing small minutes. I remember he was used for a small minutes then suddenly he bursted into a good player then it made him into a starter. I'm not seeing that Philadelphia guy returning to their starting lineup next season. They're horrible when they used that guy.
 
i like a combo of Garcia and Martin as the primary mostly Garcia. Martin just in case we want he Bonzi and Artest on the court at the same time. kinda like this

Bibby/Garcia/Martin/Price
 
IVote4Replay said:
I say let GP sign whoever he see's fit and let things play out in training camp..If Hart wins the spot- great for him..

Agreed, even if it's someone else other than Hart/Price.
 
Entity said:
i like a combo of Garcia and Martin as the primary mostly Garcia.
.

You know what I'd like? I'd like it if we went out and got ourselves a competent point guard to be our backup point guard.

I know it's kind of nutty, but it just might work.
 
Well, we may be stuck wiht Hart, just because nobody is going to be interested after he laid a turd this year for us. Unless he's a throw in in somethign larger. And we will probably have Ronnie back just because he's cheap, showed flashes, and has basically no trade value, so why not? See what he can bring. But you just can't gameplan aroound "oh, we've got Ronnie, backup PG solved" because that's just a complete shot in the dark.

If we could somehow move Hart somewhere, there really might be worse situations than trying to bring Bobby back to finish up his career, and have him tutor Price and maybe eventually give way to him if the kid shows anything. Of course, if he doesn't show anything by the end of next year, he's probably out of the league, or at least off our roster, but it could still work. Have our safety blanket while still providing an eventual opening (due to Bobby's age and injury prone status) for Ronnie if he is able to show something.
 
I saw the some potentials in Price several times during Kings games, although it's too short. As you said ahead, he is atheletic, has good jumper, and defenses quite well. But I don't think his leading is good. His ballhandling is quite good, but IMHO he needs more time and experiences to learn how to set up the offense.

We have no coach currently, so it might be useless ideas, but I thought he might play as a type of OG, combinated with swingmen who can lead such as Artest and Garcia. So I guessed, when he develops, Adelman would utillized Price more. And ... you know what happened.

you know... Coach first.

Then we can discuss which will be better.

Anyway, I like Price, he has potential and is very competitive. He can develop more. I wish he can have more playing time and chances to develop.
 
The ONLY way Ronnie should get the slot is by beating out an established reliable back up. this year he had a shot against Hart and came up short... tells me he is not ready for prime time.
 
Amanjoy said:
My beef with Adelman was that he never varied from his routine. He always stuck with the same old thing, and it was great most of the time, but sometimes you gotta shake things up in order to be successful in certain situations. Adelman never gave the opportunity for guys like Wallace, Martin, or Price to shine. He only did it when he was forced to. WAllace never got a look unless Hedo or Peja was hurt. Martin wouldn've still been riding the bench had Bonzi not gotten hurt, and Price would have never seen more than a minute of each game had it not been for an injury plagued game against Dallas in December. With Peja out, the Kings were in desperate need of some sort of lift, and it didn't happen until Ronnie Price came in the game in the 2nd qtr. The guy came in and changed the tone of the game with his speed, quickness, defense and outside shot. He showed absolutely no fear against Jason Terry, and took it right at the Mavs. The Kings had an 8 point lead with about 5 mintues or so to go when all of a sudden, Adelman decides to pull Price and KT out in favor of Bibby and Shareef, and Terry & Dirk proceed to pick n roll the Kings to death and Dirk scores 10 pts in the last 5 minutes, and the Mavs go on to win. That pick n roll combo and the Dirk isolation on the block was not working with Price and KT in there, and as soon as those 2 went out, it all of a sudden became unstoppable.

I know exactly what game you were talking about- December 22. I thought that was the only time Price really got an opportunity to show case something in a game besides garbage time. I think if he works really hard this summer he might be able to get a better opportunity- depending on the coach obviously. I would love to see him stick around and develop. A lot of the old coaches were really high on Price. He's QUICK, he can jump (has anyone watched him in warm ups, WOW), and he seems to have a nice shot. I don't want to give up on him at all.

I think we have a lot of guards who are capable of running point- Bibby, Hart, Price, Martin a little, Garcia and even Artest. I would like to see Price on the floor even with Bibby like you said. I think if he gets enough playing time, he might be able to pass Jason Hart for his back up role, but I think he has to prove himself first.
 
He needs to prove himself? How? RA barely let this guy play. But I know where he's going to prove himself...... Vegas Summer League.
 
West_Gunslinger16 said:
He needs to prove himself? How? RA barely let this guy play. But I know where he's going to prove himself...... Vegas Summer League.

EVERYBODY looks great in Vegas Summer League. Will be interesting, but will prove nothing. Actually the place where you truly prove yourself better than the guy ahead of you inthe depth chart is the one the fans never see -- everyday in practice.
 
GoGoGadget said:
.

You know what I'd like? I'd like it if we went out and got ourselves a competent point guard to be our backup point guard.

I know it's kind of nutty, but it just might work.

Thank you! I think everyone got so high on Garcia after playing well against SA for one game back in December. Every time I saw him handling the ball after that, he looked unsure of himself and incomeptent. Ronnie Price looked better than him in his one chance to shine. The only problem is that he only got one chance...and he took full advantage of it. The Kings would be stupid to let him go!
 
HndsmCelt said:
The ONLY way Ronnie should get the slot is by beating out an established reliable back up. this year he had a shot against Hart and came up short... tells me he is not ready for prime time.

HE DID OUTDO HART. His one opportunity that he got against Dallas in December was the only time he ever got extended minutes, and in that one game, he played better than Hart played all season!!! To say he had a shot is prepostorous! He never got a single decent look at big time minutes after that! I dont' understand why because he showed great potential! I think I'm the only one that remembers that game though!

Price's Stat Line from that game: Dec. 22 vs. MAvs on TNT!

Min. FG 3-pt. FT REB AST PTS
18 4-8 1-5 2-2 2 1 11

Not bad for an undrafted rookie on national TV against arguably the best team in the west.

HArt's best game of the year came in a loss agaist the NO/OK City Hornets back in January in which he had almost identical stats in 21 minutes.

Min. FG 3-pt. FT REB AST. PTS
21 4-8 2-4 2-2 4 1 12

And Hart appeared in 66 games for the Kings as the backup and Price in 29, only receiving extended minutes in 2 or maybe 3 of them (if you include that Portland emberassment on Dec. 26th in which PRice hit 4 3's). In that NO/Ok City game, Price didn't particulary shoot the ball well, but you can't put a rookie on such a short leash when he had played so well for you the game before. LEt the kid learn from messing up!

It may not be this year that he gets extended minutes at backup, but I hope the new coaching staff is a little more varied in their substitution habits than Adelman was. Used correctly and given a fair opportunity to learn from mistakes like any other youg player, Price will be a key component in the Kings' future.
 
treewoman said:
I have to say neither Hart or Price really impressed me this year.

I don't think even Ron Artest would've impressed anybody if he was sitting at the end of the bench all the time and playing garbage mitutes. Kevin Martin never imrpessed anybody either until he got a serious opportunity to play extended minutes.
 
Bricklayer said:
Be the primary backup based on what?

That would be nuts. We've got exactly zero evidence he can handle that responsibility. If indeed we are trying to be a contender, there is absolutley no way you enter next season basically leaving a gaping hole in your lineup and filling it with a completely untested undrafted FA signee.

People always get fascinated with the underdog 12th men, but you can't be a serious team and decide this is a rotation player for you next year without a lot more evidence: 5.2min 2.1ppg (.362 FG .222 3pt% 1.000 FT%) 0.5reb 0.4ast 0.2stl 0.0blk 0.3TO


The key stat you named there was 5.2 minutes. It takes most young players more like 8-10 minutes to get acclamated to what's going on in the game. Given more minutes off the bench I think he will be a stable backup that won't look for his offense, but will look instead to get the Kings into their set offense and allow his personal offense to branch out from that.
 
Amanjoy said:
HE DID OUTDO HART. His one opportunity that he got against Dallas in December was the only time he ever got extended minutes, and in that one game, he played better than Hart played all season!!! To say he had a shot is prepostorous! He never got a single decent look at big time minutes after that! I dont' understand why because he showed great potential! I think I'm the only one that remembers that game though!

Price's Stat Line from that game: Dec. 22 vs. MAvs on TNT!

Min. FG 3-pt. FT REB AST PTS
18 4-8 1-5 2-2 2 1 11

Not bad for an undrafted rookie on national TV against arguably the best team in the west.

Er...that's simply not true.

He got a decent stint the very next night, shot 0-3, for an ok 4pts 3rebs in 14min, and then he got his longest stint of the season a few weeks later, on Jan 13. Odd you do not mention it, pewrhaps it has something to do with this stat line?:

19min 4pts 3rebs 1ast 2TO on 1-10FG



Whihc is roughly as relevant as his single 18min game which apparently clearly established him as a great backup PG, but nonetheless, there it is.

Looking only at extended minute stints for spot players is highly dubious anyway, as for guys whoi are not in the rotation often the only time they will ever GET extended minutes is if they are playing well. So you see all of the good, and ignore the 5 other short stints where the guy did nothing and didn't earn any extra tiem.
 
We won't really know what Ronnie Price can do unless he gets some minutes. Its hard to judge how good he can possible be if we don't see him play extended minutes.
 
Bricklayer said:
Er...that's simply not true.

He got a decent stint the very next night, shot 0-3, for an ok 4pts 3rebs in 14min, and then he got his longest stint of the season a few weeks later, on Jan 13. Odd you do not mention it, pewrhaps it has something to do with this stat line?:

19min 4pts 3rebs 1ast 2TO on 1-10FG



Whihc is roughly as relevant as his single 18min game which apparently clearly established him as a great backup PG, but nonetheless, there it is.

Looking only at extended minute stints for spot players is highly dubious anyway, as for guys whoi are not in the rotation often the only time they will ever GET extended minutes is if they are playing well. So you see all of the good, and ignore the 5 other short stints where the guy did nothing and didn't earn any extra tiem.



Actually if you read my post carefully...I did mention the bad game against NO/OK. So to say that it was his only shot at exxtensive minutes was a mistake...my bad. I missed that part in the pre-post edit session.

TO QUOTE MYSELF FROM THAT PREVIOUS POST:

"In that NO/Ok City game(on Ja. 13th), Price didn't particulary shoot the ball well (1-10 as you very observantly pointed out), but you can't put a rookie on such a short leash when he had played so well for you the game before. LEt the kid learn from messing up!"


I followed it by saying that Price can't be put on such a short leash after one bad game...especially considering how bad we were playing at the time. We never saw the guy after that. He played well against Dallas (Dec. 22), and hit 4 3's against Portland the next game (Dec. 26th). After that...one bad game...and back to the bench. I think Adelman put the guy on too short a leash considering the diserray the Kings were in at that time.

Thanks though for paying attention. It helps keep me on my toes!
 
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Bricklayer said:
If we could somehow move Hart somewhere, there really might be worse situations than trying to bring Bobby back to finish up his career, and have him tutor Price and maybe eventually give way to him if the kid shows anything. Of course, if he doesn't show anything by the end of next year, he's probably out of the league, or at least off our roster, but it could still work. Have our safety blanket while still providing an eventual opening (due to Bobby's age and injury prone status) for Ronnie if he is able to show something.

I like this idea. From what I've read, it seems the higher ups were pretty happy with RP. If Bobby were to come back and mentor him, it could turn into a great thing, as long as Bobby doesn't show him how to get injured as well.
 
i don't get it...

how can you say someone will simply perform better in extended minutes judging by say... his numbers per 48 mins...

sure they may look good on stats like sampson who leads the team in blocks and rebounds per 48 mins, but like somebody already said, you cannot gurantee ronnie would've have been productive throughout the whole year if he did play more minutes...

but i hope hope he does get more minutes this year if the kings decide to keep him, just to see whether he's improved or not.

btw how long did he sign for anyways? was it a multiple year deal or was it just for this year?
 
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Amanjoy said:
I don't think even Ron Artest would've impressed anybody if he was sitting at the end of the bench all the time and playing garbage mitutes. Kevin Martin never imrpessed anybody either until he got a serious opportunity to play extended minutes.

Not to be argumentative...but your wrong on all accounts.

I saw Kevin Martin last year in the first pre-season games and I was extremely impressed. All last year, in the few times he played, I kept hoping he'd get over his confidence issues because I felt that his confidence more than anything held him back. I think during the pre-season it hadn't really sunk it that he was playing in the NBA and he was excited, confident and absolutely awesome. One of my biggest thrills this year was seeing him play with the skill, athletesism and talent that I saw in him initially.

I said that I was not impressed with either Hart or Price - and that's how I feel... they just don't stand out for me. Not because they are on the bench, but because of their performance/attitudes. I am well aware that rookies spend a lot of time on the bench and I love watching them get their chances and grow. These two just didn't knock my socks off.
 
RaY Z said:
btw how long did he sign for anyways? was it a multiple year deal or was it just for this year?


It was reported as two at the time he was signed, which was just flabbergasting, seeing as we were basically bidding against nobody and didn't have to do that.
 
sActOwnGal said:
We won't really know what Ronnie Price can do unless he gets some minutes. Its hard to judge how good he can possible be if we don't see him play extended minutes.

We could say the same thing for Hart, couldn't we?
 
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