Shaun Livingston
- Thread starter TONYTOUCH
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Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
The injury problem is extremely legit and explains why he's garnered so little interest this year, despite all of his potential and Magic Johnson type hype. He tore almost every part of his knee, missed all of last year, so on top of those injuries there's rust, so at this stage it's a blip to none that he's ever going to live up to his potential, and it's slim to none that he'll even become a very solid role player--honestly, I think Darius Miles has a better chance of contributing to the Celts than Livingston has to any team. Another thing to consider--Livingston didn't impress me even when he was healthy--his inability to shoot the ball really limited his assist totals because defenders sagged off of him, and he played extremely foul prone defense--he really struck me as a role player when healthy, at best. Now that he's injured--who knows if he'll even become a role player.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
for vet minimum i would have been okay with signing both livingston and miles...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Would hurt nothing at this point if you are just using him to replace SAR or some such, but I think he has better offers/opportunities elsewhere, and truthfully I doubt he's ever going to be a factor in the league now. Figure we still have a lower tier starter, an old backup close to retirement, and then unproven guys, so there would be room if he came in and could really play, but that seems doubtful.
Gary
All-Star
Another reason why people are not really interested in Livingston is because before he tore his knee it's not like he was playing at an all-star type level. He was a fringe starter at best. I know he had potential, and I actually really liked his game. I wouldn't take a chance on him because he didn't reach his potential, wasn't in his prime, and tore his knee up.
I do not want Shaun Livingston on the Kings at all. I have NEVER liked anything about him. If he was going to come to the Kings he would ask for WAYYY to much. I would much rather see Francisco or Douby in his place.
That quote from Gary summed it up perfect...
That quote from Gary summed it up perfect...
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chasen4r1
Starter
I brought this subject up earlier on in the off season. It wasn't a very popular suggestion then and it probably isn't going to be a popular suggestion now. He had great potential and you can't help but feel terribly sorry for him, but like its been said, he probably has much better opportunity somewhere else. I just can't see the Kings taking a serious look at him.
peezy
Prospect
Rebuilding
A "Project Player" is precisely what a rebuilding team, like the Kings, targets, especially with so many question marks on the roster. Livingston was one of the most heralded players ever to come out of high school to enter the NBA draft. And, at 23, all of you people are ready to write him off as a failure in the NBA because of his injury? Maybe you all have forgotten what it means to be young. This guy will make a 100% physical recovery and could make all of you eat these short-sighted, presumptuous comments I have seen here. The Kings would be tremendously deeper at the point guard position immediately upon signing him. A contract for the league minimum with the promise of legitimate playing time would be the ultimate low-risk / high-reward situation for the Kings. If he plays well, they could flip him as an expiring contract at the trade deadline or sign him to a long-term deal. If he fails, they can terminate his contract midseason if they so desire.
What players are you worried will lose playing time, VF 21? Quincy Douby? Bobby Brown? You have got to be joking me. Although Brown may have some upside based on his summer league performance, we are talking about a guy who averaged over 5 assists and shot over 45% from the field in under 30 mpg in his last season ('06-'07), not a guy who has never played a game in the NBA (Brown), nor an undersized two guard who has done close to nothing in two seasons (Douby).
I'm glad you're not Petrie either, because you sure don't seem to know when it's a good idea to roll the dice.
In that case, I'm sure glad you're not Petrie.
I don't want us signing any more "project players" or using up roster space for long shots. And I don't think Petrie is going to be rolling the dice much either.
A "Project Player" is precisely what a rebuilding team, like the Kings, targets, especially with so many question marks on the roster. Livingston was one of the most heralded players ever to come out of high school to enter the NBA draft. And, at 23, all of you people are ready to write him off as a failure in the NBA because of his injury? Maybe you all have forgotten what it means to be young. This guy will make a 100% physical recovery and could make all of you eat these short-sighted, presumptuous comments I have seen here. The Kings would be tremendously deeper at the point guard position immediately upon signing him. A contract for the league minimum with the promise of legitimate playing time would be the ultimate low-risk / high-reward situation for the Kings. If he plays well, they could flip him as an expiring contract at the trade deadline or sign him to a long-term deal. If he fails, they can terminate his contract midseason if they so desire.
What players are you worried will lose playing time, VF 21? Quincy Douby? Bobby Brown? You have got to be joking me. Although Brown may have some upside based on his summer league performance, we are talking about a guy who averaged over 5 assists and shot over 45% from the field in under 30 mpg in his last season ('06-'07), not a guy who has never played a game in the NBA (Brown), nor an undersized two guard who has done close to nothing in two seasons (Douby).
I'm glad you're not Petrie either, because you sure don't seem to know when it's a good idea to roll the dice.
Who is Shaun Livingston?
I thought we are rebuilding and wants a Championship team in Sacramento.
I don't get this Shaun Livingston thing. It's like bringing in another Salmons. These guys are good, but without anything more than potential - IMO.
You can tell, they just don't have IT.
I thought we are rebuilding and wants a Championship team in Sacramento.
I don't get this Shaun Livingston thing. It's like bringing in another Salmons. These guys are good, but without anything more than potential - IMO.
You can tell, they just don't have IT.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
First off, let me say that I'm not endorsing the bringing of Livingston here. I'm not totally against the idea either, especially if SAR retires. I mean what can it hurt?
In fairness to Livingston, he was only in his third year in the league when he blew out his knee, and he was improving and starting to show why he was drafted. Whether he'll ever recover is anyone's guess. I'm certainly no expert. Most people familiar with this sort of injury seem to think that his chances are not very good.
Regardless of who he signs with, if anyone, his minutes will probably be few and far between. He'll be a signing for the future, in hope that there will be one. I wish him all the luck in the world, and he'll probably need it.
Section 101
All-Star
did you see the knee go out?
now realize the had the other knee repaired the previous year.
it wouldn't surprise me if his legs fell off during a game.
Tremendously deeper doesn't mean a thing if he can't produce. And we have no idea what his skillset current is. A contract for league minimum "with promise of legitimate playing time"? Sounds rather like a fantasy sequence to me. The NBA doesn't work that way...
I'm not worried about anyone losing playing time. I'm more concerned about carrying MORE dead wood on the roster. There's simply not room for him, IMHO.
I wouldn't have Petrie's job for all the money in the world. Sorry but to say I don't know when it's a good idea to roll the dice is more than a little naive, to say the least. NOBODY knows how Livingston is going to respond or if he'll ever be able to play at a high level again...
If Livingston was such a hot prospect, there would be a lot more teams looking at him. There aren't, and there's a reason. He's a risk most teams aren't willing to take.
This happens every TDOS. There's always someone who wants to take on another player because he MIGHT work out. Well, I trust Geoff Petrie in this area probably more than any other. He KNOWS how to spot the guys that have untapped potential or just might thrive under the right conditions.
Others have already said it, but I'll join in...
We're finally in the process of rebuilding. We're gathering a young team with talent and potential and getting rid of dead wood. Taking a risk on a player like Livingston simply doesn't, IMHO, make any sense. And, as Section 101 pointed out, "it wouldn't surprise me if his legs fell off during a game."
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In fact I feel that this current Kings team doesn't need to add anybody. At the most we need to get rid of some people for more youth, but we should have no more free agent signings
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Yep, the Youth thing is the main point of the Kings. I'm on the fence about Livingston: sure he was good once and might be good again, but how long to get back to that level? For a PG, one or two knee ops is not good whether your 22 or 30. Risk for him is huge and I don't think the upside (reward) is equal to the risk yet.
It is going to take everything Coach has got to get a backup PG set, figure out the PF slot, see how BJax works into the mix and work with essentially 5 rookies, 3 real and two from last year, Beno and Williams, who did not have training camp with Kings and who essentially did not start playing until mid-year.
Other teams need Livingston much more than the Kings do and he knows that and would look only at an opp that presents the chance to start. That doesn't exist on Kings roster. Doesn't mean I don't want him but whose minutes does he take, for how long and when is the payoff?? Brown needs to establish his potential (or not) in training camp after a great summer league.
It is going to take everything Coach has got to get a backup PG set, figure out the PF slot, see how BJax works into the mix and work with essentially 5 rookies, 3 real and two from last year, Beno and Williams, who did not have training camp with Kings and who essentially did not start playing until mid-year.
Other teams need Livingston much more than the Kings do and he knows that and would look only at an opp that presents the chance to start. That doesn't exist on Kings roster. Doesn't mean I don't want him but whose minutes does he take, for how long and when is the payoff?? Brown needs to establish his potential (or not) in training camp after a great summer league.
Gary
All-Star
He wasn't good once though... He was OK at one time. He was improving but he was still a prospect/project. If I remember correctly he was a bit shaky when it came to pure PG skills, and was not the best shooter outside of about 17ft. We really don't have a spot for him, but I wouldn't mind a camp invite to see if he could beat out Brown for the backup PG duties.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well, he had the pure PG thing down mentality wise, but I jsut never saw the star potential there, and thought it might be another example of "Clippervision". He was jsut surprisingly drab for a huge PG. Would think he would have an impact one way or the other but...
In any case, he was a pass first sort of guy though. That much could be said for him.
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
I do think he has passing abilities, but it's his complete inability to develop an adequate jumpshot that has rendered them useless. Defenders routinely sag off him knowing that he lacks three point range and has a shaky mid-range J--and so far, it has worked. I guess you can blame part of that on the Clips' system which doesn't cater to transition game (perhaps that's where Livingston truly shines) but there have been big point guards--Marcus Moore, Reece Gaines--whose lack of an adequate jumper has kicked them out of the league. Livingston just needs to tap into that area of his game by fleshing out other areas of his game in order to truly stick in the league--with his injury, his athleticism may be in question so it becomes even important for him to develop that finesse jumpshot game in order to get his skills back in working order.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think you pretty much nailed it. I'm not sure how many people remember him and why he was drafted in the first place. He's always had point guard skills. He was a very good ballhandler and passer. He obviously was a pass first and shoot second type of pt guard. One of the reasons being that he didn't have much of an outside shot.
To survive now, he must develop a shot with some consistency. I would guess that some, if not all of his quickness is gone because of the knee injury. In any event, he has a long road back, and most of it is uphill. I wish him luck.
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