Shaquille O'Neal - The Greatest Player of All Time?

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
As for Shaq BTW, he DID square off with a bunch of HOF centers in his early career -- Hakeem, the Admiral, Ewing etc. He beat Ewing up. Don't recall how he did against David until the back problems/age, and got beat by Hakeem in the 95 Finals. He clearly "belonged", but in his early years was often considered the 4th best of the great HOF type centers. Of course he was younger, and the other guys older, so there was only a very brief time there when Shaq had really come into his own, and the other greats were still at the top of their games.
 
#32
There have been greats squaring off for years (Magic - Bird), but Shaq had limited time to really face greats. Shaq came into a time where the NBA was beginning to be about the guards and the other great centers were beginning to age/retire. The time he did have proved he had skills, but the question remains--would Shaq have 4 titles if there were more dominant big men or great centers were still playing?
 
#33
Shaq is(was?) a great center, but calling him the greatest player is not even close and downright stupid in my opinion. He is 34 and was almost invisible in the Finals in terms of stats, Kareem was able to play way longer than age 34 and was always a threat. There are more than a couple of people ahead of Shaq on the All time best list. I think Brick said it best -- Wilt, Russel, and Kareem were better than Shaq and Shaq never really had anyone dominant to square off (that played the C position) against, unlike the other players mentioned above, so its hard to judge him.
Its a tough comparison, its the chicken and egg story. You say that there were no other dominant centers to square off, but maybe he was way better than all of them that we get the perception that there were no other centers in that time.

Some of the centers that he went against were really world class and may not be the all time greats but some one I would love to have on my team during their prime.

Hakeem (though fading away still was a force)
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Arvydas Sabonis
Vlade Divac
Rik Smits
Zydrunas I
Tim Duncan (yes he is a 7 footer, and is a center its just that he hides behind another 7 footer in Pops scheme and they did go head to head many a times in various games )
Alonzo Mourning

Not a bad list, maybe not all time greats but a decent list anyways.

On the other hand, he may not be a candidate for the GOAT just because his dominance did not last that long, it was only that three years when the lakers won. Maybe he was dominant but he didnt get the job done the rest of the years. Whereas players like jordan, magic etc found a way to win and maybe were lucky to be part of a team that managed to win way more than Shaq did.

Even in this recent ring, he was as dominant and effective in the game as Zo was, in fact i felt that the heat were much better off when Zo was in rather than shaq in. Sure enough Zo was competing against the bench when he came in and Shaq just being on the floor opens up for players like Wade to win the mvp. I have to give it to Shaq on one thing though, all those great players played in a time when the rules were not so against them, with the zone rules it is easier to deny the ball to shaq. Its easier to defend great players and it becomes tough only when there are multiple threats on the floor.

If the rules were the same during jordans years maybe jordan doesnt get the ball and when he gets it the other teams might put two on him with a spy towards the basket and another one staying with pippen. We wouldnt know the result.
 
#34
Is this a joke?

Not even close.

Might be Top 10 though. Its unfortunate he never ahd the discipline to really chase the GOAT title, or he might have made it an argument. As it is, he's not even the greatest center, let alone the greatest player.

Let's say 4th greatest center after Wilt, Russel, Kareem -- I'll give him the edge over Hakeem for the moment -- and then also behind Michael, Magic, Oscar, Larry at least. So maybe 8th at best and bottom half of the Top 10, and that's with several other guys (West etc.) bucking for those 8th, 9th, 10th spots.
I used the title to grab your attention but if you look at my list, I am right with you.

Purple Reign's Top 10 players of all time
1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Oscar Robertson
8. Larry Bird
9. Jerry West
10. Elgin Baylor

I put Shaq sixth because he has won more than the other four behind him and if you look at career numbers, he is right up there or will eventually pass Robertson, Bird, West and Baylor in major career numbers.

I do not take into consideration eras, who he played against and all that other nonsense. It makes it too complicated.
 
#35
Here is the scary part. If Shaq was a 75 percent FT shooter, instead of the 52.8 that he is, you would add 2,161 points to his total and his numbers would be this:
So here is the real problem....he is a 52.8% FT shooter, not 75%....don't forget when the game is on the line, this guy has to watch on the bench due to his poor FT%.....just because of that, he will never be considered "The Greatest" because he is a non-factor on the bench, or sometimes even hurt his team simply because he is on the floor.
 
#36
LOL my first impulse WAS to compare him to Tyson, but Tyson self destructed so quick and so young I thought better of it and in Tyson's case he did meet stiff competiton and lost. Holmes really earend his title from old men who should have retired and defended it against a string of second raters. By the time he got a chance to loose to legit contenders adn champions (Tyson, Hollyfield) Hew was already washed up.
I never liked Tyson ever since he back away from fighting Riddick Bowe. He was a coward.
 
#39
Her may not be the greatest player of all time, but no matter how much Kings fans might hate Shaq, there is simply no way to deny what the man has achieved in his career.