Shaking Things Up?

twslam07

All-Star
I've posted many times that I think our roster has talent. However, I think that talent doesn't compliment each other very well, or we have too much talent at one position (PG, SF, C) while lacking in others (SG, PF). Below are a few trades that I think helps balance this team and tailor the surrounding talent to compliment our core pieces.


Trade #1
Taj Gibson
Kirk Hinrich

for

Darren Collison
Caron Butler
Quincy Acy
Duje Dukan

It gives Chicago a solid backup PG in case Rose goes down with an injury. If he doesn't, Collison gives them a much needed scorer off the bench. Losing Gibson isn't too much of a loss considering they can have Gasol, Mirotic, & Noah pickup a lot of his minutes (not to mention they have Portis who can take on some spot minutes).

Sacramento gets a solid, veteran PF who can start next to Cousins, play defense, and knock down open jumpers on offense. Not to mention they free up their logjam at PG and still have an adequate backup PG (Hinrich) while giving Curry a chance to prove himself and take over the backup role.


Trade #2
Tiago Splitter
Kent Bazemore

for

Kosta Koufos
Omri Casspi

Bazemore is a terrific young player who can defend, shoot, & handle, but Atlanta has had to play him mostly at SF. Swapping him with Casspi gives them a more natural wing rotation between Korver, Sefolosha, & Casspi where Sefolosha can swing between both SG & SF. Although they downgrade from Bazemore to Casspi, they upgrade their frontcourt by acquiring the better defending, better rebounding, younger Koufos (not to mention his contract is a little cheaper). Koufos would pair nicely with both Milsap & Horford, and he would be good insurance in case the Hawks can retain Horford in the offseason. You also have to keep in mind that Bazemore is a UFA next offseason, so moving him for guys like Casspi & Koufos who have a little more time on their deal could be attractive considering everyone will have cap space next year.

Koufos is a very solid C, but I prefer to not play our franchise player out of position (PF). He should be logging all of his minutes at C. Splitter is worse than Koufos (thus we could throw 11-15 mpg his way), but he can still help defend the paint when Cousins needs a break. On the flip side, we get Bazemore who would slide in very nicely as our starting SG. Finally we would get a starting SG who can hit the three, defend, handle the ball, and play with high energy on a consistent basis.


Trade #3
Moe Harkless

for

Ben McLemore

Considering Portland is a young and developing team, I think they would take the flyer on the higher potential player.

With the acquisition of Basemore, it wouldn't leave room for McLemore. Trading him for a decent SF who can play some defense would be a plus.


Final Roster
PG - Rondo (37 min)/Hinrich (11 min)/Curry
SG - Bazemore (26 min)/Belinelli (22 min)/Anderson
SF - Gay (34 min)/Harkless (14 min)
PF - Gibson (28 min)/Cauley-Stein (20 min)/Moreland
C - Cousins (37 min)/Splitter (11 min)

The only weaker defenders in the entire rotation would be Gay & Belinelli. The rest of the team should bring solid defense. With 4 strong bigs on the team, I find it hard to believe that Karl would try and force small-ball. Shooting would still be solid with Hinrich, Curry, Bazemore, Belinelli, Gay, Harkless, Gibson, & Cousins all being able to hit, and swapping in Gibson into the starting lineup should give Cousins the freedom to play down low (with Gibson providing spacing from midrange).
 
Knew it would be a Taj Gibson or Alec Burks trade ;)

I honestly think it's a solid trade for both parties. If they pulled off that trade (and not the others), I would still be very excited about the team for the following reasons:

  1. The Rondo/Collison backcourt doesn't seem to work very well at all (offensively or defensively). Offensively, you either make one of the best passing PGs into an off-ball player, or you take a sixth man who attacks the basket and just ask him to spot up (basically what we did to Evans when he was here). Defensively, both are too small & weak to defend SGs. It puts us at an immediate disadvantage defensively (especially by us increasing the probability that we end up with one of our PGs guarding a SF, PF, or C due to Karl's idiotic switching scheme).
  2. Replacing Collison with Gibson & Hinrich would improve our defense. Hinrich gets after it defensively and has always been disruptive on that side of the ball (not to mention he has the size to guard SGs). Gibson is a solid post defender & rim protector who's also nimble enough to guard quicker PFs and make quick rotations. It would also most likely push Karl away from playing Gay/Casspi at PF for long stretches (which immediately makes us weak defensively).
  3. Gibson's defense might not be as good as Cauley-Stein's defense (or at least it won't be for very long), but he is a steady defender who (unlike Cauley-Stein) isn't a liability on offense. Gibson can score on putbacks while also being able to step out and knock down open jumpers. His jumpshot gives Cousins the ability to play down low with much better spacing.
  4. If Cousins is out with an injury, a Gibson/Koufos/Cauley-Stein front-court is still very solid. I'd be more hopeful going into games with that frontcourt.


There's just a lot to like about that trade. A Gibson/Cousins/Cauley-Stein/Koufos would give us one of the best, if not, the best frontcourt rotation in the league, and if not, they would easily be the best defensive frontcourt in the league.

With Collison's departure, I think we could see some addition by subtraction. Rondo should be getting big minutes 35-37 mpg, that means Collison is playing 12-17 mpg at SG. That results in Mclemore and/or Belinelli having to get some of their minutes at SF. If McLemore and/or Belinelli are taking up minutes at SF, that results in Gay and/or Casspi having to get some of their minutes at PF. You can see that it's a downward spiral. However, if you move Collison, the minute distribution becomes a lot more traditional and would likely result in a lot less small-ball (which I think would help solve some of our problems):

PG - Rondo (37 min)/Hinrich (11 min)
SG - McLemore (22 min)/Belinelli (26 min)
SF - Gay (34 min)/Casspi (14 min)
PF - Gibson (23 min)/Cauley-Stein (10 min)/Cousins (9 min)/Casspi (6 min)
C - Cousins (28 min)/Koufos (20 min)

Cousins - 37 mpg
Rondo - 37 mpg
Gay - 34 mpg
Belinelli - 26 mpg
Gibson - 23 mpg
McLemore - 22 mpg
Casspi - 20 mpg
Koufos - 20 mpg
Hinrich - 11 mpg
Cauley-Stein - 10 mpg

You're only seeing small-ball for 6 minutes a game in this rotation (Casspi at PF), but the big difference is we would only be small in one position (meaning we would still have a full sized PG, SG, SF, & C around our small PF versus having a PG playing SG & a SG playing SF next to a guy like Gay/Casspi playing PF). I can live with that.


EDIT: Having the best defensive frontcourt in the league & only running a small-ball lineup for 6 minutes every game (resulting in less defensive mismatches) should make the defense better right away. However, if we want to take the next step and become a top defensive team, you need to have the perimeter players start to buy in. I think we have the potential if Rondo, McLemore, & Hinrich supply above average defense with Belinelli, Gay, & Casspi giving consistent effort on a routine basis (can't really expect them to become anything more than average defenders).
 
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I've posted many times that I think our roster has talent. However, I think that talent doesn't compliment each other very well, or we have too much talent at one position (PG, SF, C) while lacking in others (SG, PF). Below are a few trades that I think helps balance this team and tailor the surrounding talent to compliment our core pieces.


Trade #1
Taj Gibson
Kirk Hinrich

for

Darren Collison
Caron Butler
Quincy Acy
Duje Dukan

It gives Chicago a solid backup PG in case Rose goes down with an injury. If he doesn't, Collison gives them a much needed scorer off the bench. Losing Gibson isn't too much of a loss considering they can have Gasol, Mirotic, & Noah pickup a lot of his minutes (not to mention they have Portis who can take on some spot minutes).

Sacramento gets a solid, veteran PF who can start next to Cousins, play defense, and knock down open jumpers on offense. Not to mention they free up their logjam at PG and still have an adequate backup PG (Hinrich) while giving Curry a chance to prove himself and take over the backup role.


Trade #2
Tiago Splitter
Kent Bazemore

for

Kosta Koufos
Omri Casspi

Bazemore is a terrific young player who can defend, shoot, & handle, but Atlanta has had to play him mostly at SF. Swapping him with Casspi gives them a more natural wing rotation between Korver, Sefolosha, & Casspi where Sefolosha can swing between both SG & SF. Although they downgrade from Bazemore to Casspi, they upgrade their frontcourt by acquiring the better defending, better rebounding, younger Koufos (not to mention his contract is a little cheaper). Koufos would pair nicely with both Milsap & Horford, and he would be good insurance in case the Hawks can retain Horford in the offseason. You also have to keep in mind that Bazemore is a UFA next offseason, so moving him for guys like Casspi & Koufos who have a little more time on their deal could be attractive considering everyone will have cap space next year.

Koufos is a very solid C, but I prefer to not play our franchise player out of position (PF). He should be logging all of his minutes at C. Splitter is worse than Koufos (thus we could throw 11-15 mpg his way), but he can still help defend the paint when Cousins needs a break. On the flip side, we get Bazemore who would slide in very nicely as our starting SG. Finally we would get a starting SG who can hit the three, defend, handle the ball, and play with high energy on a consistent basis.


Trade #3
Moe Harkless

for

Ben McLemore

Considering Portland is a young and developing team, I think they would take the flyer on the higher potential player.

With the acquisition of Basemore, it wouldn't leave room for McLemore. Trading him for a decent SF who can play some defense would be a plus.


Final Roster
PG - Rondo (37 min)/Hinrich (11 min)/Curry
SG - Bazemore (26 min)/Belinelli (22 min)/Anderson
SF - Gay (34 min)/Harkless (14 min)
PF - Gibson (28 min)/Cauley-Stein (20 min)/Moreland
C - Cousins (37 min)/Splitter (11 min)

The only weaker defenders in the entire rotation would be Gay & Belinelli. The rest of the team should bring solid defense. With 4 strong bigs on the team, I find it hard to believe that Karl would try and force small-ball. Shooting would still be solid with Hinrich, Curry, Bazemore, Belinelli, Gay, Harkless, Gibson, & Cousins all being able to hit, and swapping in Gibson into the starting lineup should give Cousins the freedom to play down low (with Gibson providing spacing from midrange).

I'm not sure the other teams would do this trades.

Chicago really like Kirk and they also have Aaron Brooks who's a solid back up, I'm sure they'd like to have DC but giving up both Gibson and Kirk just to get him seems like a weird move for them.
Gasol is getting older and will need more rest as the season progress, Noah is on the decline and on an expiring contract and Mirotic has yet to prove he's worth all the hype- I don't see them taking 2 veterans they like and shaking up the roster for 1 guy they don't desperately need (especially considering DC hasn't looked great this year).

Koufos is an upgrade over Splitter imo, but I'm not sure it will be enough to make them do the trade since Horford play the majority of center minutes and Splitter is a capable backup.
Bazemore is a pretty important part of their system since he can both shoot and use his athleticism as a wing defender, if they do this trade they will need to start Sefolosha who can't shoot or Casspi-Korver that provides very limited wing defense.

I can see Portland doing Ben for Harkless, but I don't see that improving either team (I understand you did this move to balance the roster after the 2 trades before).

I would think hard about maybe parting with Gay for Markeiff and PJ Tucker, than building a package around Ben and Kosta to bring back some young talent.
 
I'm not sure the other teams would do this trades.

Chicago really like Kirk and they also have Aaron Brooks who's a solid back up, I'm sure they'd like to have DC but giving up both Gibson and Kirk just to get him seems like a weird move for them.
Gasol is getting older and will need more rest as the season progress, Noah is on the decline and on an expiring contract and Mirotic has yet to prove he's worth all the hype- I don't see them taking 2 veterans they like and shaking up the roster for 1 guy they don't desperately need (especially considering DC hasn't looked great this year).

Koufos is an upgrade over Splitter imo, but I'm not sure it will be enough to make them do the trade since Horford play the majority of center minutes and Splitter is a capable backup.
Bazemore is a pretty important part of their system since he can both shoot and use his athleticism as a wing defender, if they do this trade they will need to start Sefolosha who can't shoot or Casspi-Korver that provides very limited wing defense.

I can see Portland doing Ben for Harkless, but I don't see that improving either team (I understand you did this move to balance the roster after the 2 trades before).

I would think hard about maybe parting with Gay for Markeiff and PJ Tucker, than building a package around Ben and Kosta to bring back some young talent.

I respect your opinion. The only trade I had some doubts on was the Hawks trade, but knowing Bazemore is an UFA, it might make it easier to pry him away. Literally, every team is going to have cap space next season. A young, talented player who is not a RFA like Bazemore is going to attract a lot of attention in the offseason.

As for the Chicago trade, I would possibly consider lowering the protection of our pick to sweeten the deal. We would most likely have to clarify that the pick they would be receiving would be after the Sixers had the option to swap picks. For instance, if we lowered the protection to top 7 and we finished 6th while the Sixers finished 8th, the 8th pick would go to the Bulls while the 6th pick would go to Sixers (leaving us with no pick in the draft). However, it would more likely play out with us finishing 8th or 9th (with the Sixers finishing bottom 3) resulting in no pick swap and the 8th/9th pick would go directly to the Bulls.
 
Fournier playing time has been going down and the Magic need a better back up pg over Shabazz and they also need time to develop Mario and Gordon. We got DC to offer.
 
Fournier playing time has been going down and the Magic need a better back up pg over Shabazz and they also need time to develop Mario and Gordon. We got DC to offer.
I really like Fournier's game, but we need to add better defenders.

Plus, if we're trading away Collison, I'd like to have an adequate backup PG coming back in return. I like Watson and wouldn't mind him and Curry battling it out for backup PG minutes. However, I don't think Collison for Fournier/Watson is nearly enough.

But again, we need our SG to be a good defender as long as Gay is at SF (which I know you're very open to moving him). I think a 3 wing rotation of Gay, 3 and D SG, & Fournier would be very solid (with Fournier coming off the bench), but I would rather us try to improve the defense with the next move we make.
 
I really like Fournier's game, but we need to add better defenders.

Plus, if we're trading away Collison, I'd like to have an adequate backup PG coming back in return. I like Watson and wouldn't mind him and Curry battling it out for backup PG minutes. However, I don't think Collison for Fournier/Watson is nearly enough.

But again, we need our SG to be a good defender as long as Gay is at SF (which I know you're very open to moving him). I think a 3 wing rotation of Gay, 3 and D SG, & Fournier would be very solid (with Fournier coming off the bench), but I would rather us try to improve the defense with the next move we make.
I am almost certain wiith how talented Devin Booker is that the Suns will make some moves to open up playing time and we could use them for some three way trades where we move Gay and get very useful pieces in return.

I do agree with you about Evan his defense has really regressed he showed promise as a rookie not sure what occured but yeah his defense has not been good as of late part of it is he had to defend sf which he can't do due to lack of strength,
 
Was for trading DC but not anymore unless its a big deal.
With Rondo playing good and being a FA he can't leave and we new DC there in case this happens he has proved he can play with DMC/Gay and be a top 20 starting pg. what happens if we trade DC and Rondo signs with the Knicks who have a good team as well as Rondos friend Melo and we miss out on Conley? We'd have to sign someone like Clarkson
 
How do you ever gain chemistry then to become a team if you keep changing all your personnel year in and year out?

If we really want to trade one of our core players, we should wait until the offseason or until the deadline, when we are out of the playoff race at this time.
Establishing chemistry during the season is no easy task.
But we should try to find upgrades for Butler, Acy, Dukan and Anderson. Nothing special - just try to make this team a little deeper and balance things out a bit.
Maybe we can find a young wing prospect, a solid defensive minded veteran or a stretch big.
 
How do you ever gain chemistry then to become a team if you keep changing all your personnel year in and year out?

Most of the time it doesn't take long to see what group of players will work together and have a chance to be "dangerous" and compete with the top teams. If for whatever reason I don't believe that a group will be that,...I'd shake things up sooner instead of later on.

I think what's worse, is realizing that there's no chemistry forming...and just trying to 'stick it out'. Something is amiss...not seeing it that extra something forming
 
If we really want to trade one of our core players, we should wait until the offseason or until the deadline, when we are out of the playoff race at this time.
Establishing chemistry during the season is no easy task.
But we should try to find upgrades for Butler, Acy, Dukan and Anderson. Nothing special - just try to make this team a little deeper and balance things out a bit.
Maybe we can find a young wing prospect, a solid defensive minded veteran or a stretch big.

Considering the Kings don't exactly have the best trade assets right now in order to attain one of those specified type of players....they are better off not playing any of those players you mentioned and instead give Moreland and Curry some more burn since this team won't be in the playoff hunt for much longer.
 
Most of the time it doesn't take long to see what group of players will work together and have a chance to be "dangerous" and compete with the top teams. If for whatever reason I don't believe that a group will be that,...I'd shake things up sooner instead of later on.

I think what's worse, is realizing that there's no chemistry forming...and just trying to 'stick it out'. Something is amiss...not seeing it that extra something forming

You don't build chemistry in 20 games. It's a tough thing to do. It's even more difficult when your head coach does not put you in spots where you and the team can succeed not just individually...but as a collective unit.
 
You don't build chemistry in 20 games. It's a tough thing to do. It's even more difficult when your head coach does not put you in spots where you and the team can succeed not just individually...but as a collective unit.
I am not denying the chemistry argument. I happen to strongly believe in the power of chemistry. However, chemistry is just one aspect.

I'm addressing the balance of our roster and how it compliments our core. Our three best bench players (Collison, Casspi, & Koufos) play the exact same position as our 3 best players (Rondo, Gay, & Cousins). Ideally, we should be reallocating that talent to positions of need like SG & PF (not collecting good bench players who either are forced to play out of position or force our core players to play out of position. It's that simple.

I'm not saying that we can't find success with our current roster, but what I am saying is that the potential of this team is limited versus one that would have a more balanced roster that compliments its core players.
 
I am not denying the chemistry argument. I happen to strongly believe in the power of chemistry. However, chemistry is just one aspect.

I'm addressing the balance of our roster and how it compliments our core. Our three best bench players (Collison, Casspi, & Koufos) play the exact same position as our 3 best players (Rondo, Gay, & Cousins). Ideally, we should be reallocating that talent to positions of need like SG & PF (not collecting good bench players who either are forced to play out of position or force our core players to play out of position. It's that simple.

I'm not saying that we can't find success with our current roster, but what I am saying is that the potential of this team is limited versus one that would have a more balanced roster that compliments its core players.

I agree on the part that this roster does not have a high ceiling as currently constructed. There are just not enough defenders on the team and the lack of consistent shooting is evident as day. The problem with acquiring SG & PF at the moment are not realistic because what can the Kings really give up? They most likely won't have a first round pick this draft and who wants McLemore?
 
I like the way you think but Chicago would never trade Gibson and Hinrich for the package listed. Butler, Acy and Dukan arent worth anything.
 
I've posted many times that I think our roster has talent. However, I think that talent doesn't compliment each other very well, or we have too much talent at one position (PG, SF, C) while lacking in others (SG, PF). Below are a few trades that I think helps balance this team and tailor the surrounding talent to compliment our core pieces.


Trade #1
Taj Gibson
Kirk Hinrich

for

Darren Collison
Caron Butler
Quincy Acy
Duje Dukan
o_O

Does this trade involve a shotgun and a ski mask? Or perhaps a bomb and a city bus?
 
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It's a risk, but I'd trade for a Morris. Reason why? crap sucks on our team and I don't see chemistry nor a bond building between everyone.
Let's just stockpile talent while we're at it. We already have Cousins who's a boneheaded player, so why can't we have more than 1?

Darren Collison and Ben McLemore for Markieff Morris and Devin Booker

It gives the Suns a PG off the bench behind an already great backcourt, AND an athletic SG who has a higher ceiling. It gives us a disgruntled talented PF and a younger SG with a lower ceiling, but shooting well.

Rondo-Booker-Gay-Morris-Cousins
 
I'm not sure on a long term SG rotation, but that's a point of need.

For now the only move I'd like to see is waiting to see how much Anderson is going to cost, and if the price is right, add him to our bench as a further scoring option at pf. Sort of have a choice with defense with WCS, Anderson scoring, Casspi possibly a little bit too.
 
http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...Trade-Market-With-Lance-Stephenson-Josh-Smith

Sounds like the Clippers are looking to trade Lance Stephenson. Might be looking to buy him out, per the article. There might be an opportunity in there. Not sure if Lance is a headcase or not.
I'm not sure if Lance can become that same player again.

Rondo-Stephenson backcourt will be hard. Rondo's lack of shooting ability really really limits on who can be his backcourt partner. Rondo needs an elite shooter to play alongside him who doesn't need the ball. It doesn't really fit Stephenson.

If Belinelli was more consistent and a better defender, he'd be the perfect starting SG.
 
http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...Trade-Market-With-Lance-Stephenson-Josh-Smith

Sounds like the Clippers are looking to trade Lance Stephenson. Might be looking to buy him out, per the article. There might be an opportunity in there. Not sure if Lance is a headcase or not.

I was thinking the same, but he has a hefty 9 million contract.

So we'd have to move either Collison or Marco and fillers.

We should take a look at him in the off season, no hurry right now, no way in hell they pick up the team option on him either.
 
It's a risk, but I'd trade for a Morris. Reason why? poopoo sucks on our team and I don't see chemistry nor a bond building between everyone.
Let's just stockpile talent while we're at it. We already have Cousins who's a boneheaded player, so why can't we have more than 1?

Darren Collison and Ben McLemore for Markieff Morris and Devin Booker

It gives the Suns a PG off the bench behind an already great backcourt, AND an athletic SG who has a higher ceiling. It gives us a disgruntled talented PF and a younger SG with a lower ceiling, but shooting well.

Rondo-Booker-Gay-Morris-Cousins
There is zero chance the Suns give up on a talent like Booker just to move Morris, Mclemore ceiling is way lower Booker right now is better than Ben.
 
http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...Trade-Market-With-Lance-Stephenson-Josh-Smith

Sounds like the Clippers are looking to trade Lance Stephenson. Might be looking to buy him out, per the article. There might be an opportunity in there. Not sure if Lance is a headcase or not.

Lance is most certainly a headcase. We knew this back before he entered the league due to a nasty domestic violence incident, but with Charlotte giving up on him in a year and the Clippers apparently giving up on in a bit more than a month... NO THANK YOU. We are doing a good enough job of falling flat on our own without Lance's help.
 
You don't build chemistry in 20 games. It's a tough thing to do. It's even more difficult when your head coach does not put you in spots where you and the team can succeed not just individually...but as a collective unit.

20+ games is actually a lot of games. Just because the schedule is extremely long....doesnt' mean 20+ games is not enough to get a solid feel for a team as a unit
 
20+ games is actually a lot of games. Just because the schedule is extremely long....doesnt' mean 20+ games is not enough to get a solid feel for a team as a unit

You're not taking into consideration a new coaching staff as well here. It's different when you have a established culture all ready and the coach from day one preaches what he expects out of his players. Here? not so much. There is no identity right now....there is one they are trying to achieve which is this non sense fast paced basketball that's not leading to any wins.
 
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