SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Heck no. That's a massive overpay for the Kings.
Potential Free Agent/Trade/Sign Tracker, '25-'26 Season
- Thread starter twslam07
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Heck no. That's a massive overpay for the Kings.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Because they'd want to get out while his value is highest. The Hawks kind of showed why it's probably best to get out too early than too late with Hunter. Hunter has had injury issues so that might have hindered his value a tad but they are roughly similar in terms of level of talent. The Kings taking any of those picks out of the stockpile better be for a home run. Not 3rd options.
Your right. As much as I’d like that forward rotation, that’s three of our own first including Carter. Plus DeRozan, too much.
Murphy was there for the picking, but we took Davion.
This is flawed thinking imo. Going for the home run to me is how you end up overpaying: you're paying for the peak production and its likely only going to go down.
A guy like Trey Murphy is exactly the sort of swing you should take with picks. His profile is someone where there absolutely can be meat left on the bone; and if he does blow up, thats where he truly becomes unattainable.
Same with Garland. Everything there suggests he can be a true offensive engine and a #1 option offensively. The time to buy him is now, before he shows that ability on a team like the Magic.
Yeah it carter is headed somewhere in a trade, it better be for someone who can be a longtime franchise cornerstone. In the vein of a Garland or Murphy
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And I disagree because a home run is still a home run and likely to recoup most of your value if you have to retreat so unless the value is a clear winner or you are indeed this one piece away don't go for half measures. Monte did a good job with some of this picks this recent deadline. He took 2nd rounders and turned them into fit and rotational players. He didn't blow a first on someone like John Collins, Cam Johnson, or Kyle Kuzma.
Teams get in trouble when they divvy up firsts over time and get less overall in return. The Kings have put together a masterclass over the years on how doing that can screw you up. Tossing firsts down a hole to both create space and fill needs with them like with someone like Huerter. And it's the protections that ended up making other trade possibilities tougher. If the Kings are going down in flames go all the way down. Throw it all towards someone the level of a Jaylen Brown at the very least. Because while not giving up as much on a lesser player looks great on paper, in reality it still then takes you out of the running for higher level talent later on since those picks and young talent are now gone.
Murphy fits much better than Garland or Trae in terms of need, and so does someone like Brown, but this all circles back to the same thing, the Kings would be foolish to do anything like this right now and people complaining about all the mistakes the Kings have made in the past have to realize this is more of the same possibly. Unless a Giannis, Jokic, etc. level player is coming back there are just so few justifications to make a move like this right now until the Kings roster proves worth committing to.
I get what you're saying with someone like Murphy or Garland, but the question is what if they don't get there? Is Garland or Murphy turning this current incarnation into a contender even if they do? The Kings simply aren't good enough right now to take that risk let alone the fact that someone like Garland isn't fixing any of the Kings actual issues. Then if they rebuilt around Garland because guess what, the trio of defensive nothingness didn't work, the ensuing roster muck will probably be cleared right as you are maxing him out contractually and therefore making it tough to build forward. We know, we've seen it. The Kings have created cap space multiple times now and missed on those swings. LaVine was matched and so on. This is why the good franchise don't constantly sacrifice one area of franchise development for the other. They are consistently developing young talent, valuing draft assets, and building towards what wins in that current era via signings and trades that don't extinguish the former two things. The Kings are always trying to overpay for other teams developed pieces and then in turn allowing those other teams to start the more proven process over.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Look at his contract he’s gonna be making peanuts relatively for four years that’s extreme value in itself to overpay for
Agreed have to go for the home run on guys like garland and Murphy especially since we won’t tank and we’ll be picking 11-12 for the distant future.
Yeah, thats inherently the gamble. Murphy might not achieve if his full potential, but what if he's Paul George 2.0? What if Garland is a poor man's steph? Both of those outcomes would be among the better players in Kinga history. Hell, the current version of those guys would already rank among the most talented in our franchise history.
The point isn't whether or not its smart to go for it or not. We know its not. We do know that Vivek will mandate it though. So if we HAVE to make a push, let's push our chips in on really talented players like Garland or Murphy and bet on them having another level available for them to reach.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
See, that's kind of what scares me. How did the Thunder start their process? haha. And if Garland were a poor mans Steph he would have shown it in terms of impact. Maybe he can put up those numbers but the Cavs are where they are for a reason or that should be assumed if you are a team like the Kings. If the Kings were loaded with great young talent on valuable rookie contracts or had a huge stockpile of picks like the Thunder or Rockets and were just starting off on a 8 year window of success with mid 20's picks for the next solid chunk of time, fine. Their recent just go for it only put them farther behind and common sense has to prevail at least in terms of seeing what they actually are before going farther down the hole. The Kings are far from easily being able to go all in. Those half measures over the years are catching up and the next failure if overpaid for is potentially a long, arduous climb back out to even begin to start over. They literally have 1 single first round young talent under 24 in Carter and the window for Sacramento is built largely on topped out talent heading into or into their primes already. Be the Thunder. Be the Rockets. Quit being the freaking Kangz Vivek, lol.
You're asking for something thats not possible. Most of us agree a full reset is what's needed, but Vivek will not abide. So in reality, our best chance out of the middle is if we strike gold with an unexpected player spike; trading for a Garland or Murphy and they develop into all nba guys. Keon actually is Derrick white. Carter is jrue Holiday. Stuff like that.
Garland has shown poor man's curry type of numbers and impact. Its very logical to see a huge leap from him away from one of the most ball dominant guards in the NBA in Mitchell.
Murphy in a similar vein. 21 ppg on 60% TS as a wing is damn near impossible to find. Everyone else who's at that level is basically a star.
Basically, you can't wait for these guys to prove their a star before taking the leap. You get them on the verge of the breakout otherwise you're totally priced out at that point
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Yup Knicks didn’t wait for Brunson and o prove he was a star
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Actually with where the Kings are at you have to do exactly that and target proven stars. Like the Cavs did with Donavan Mitchell. It's not a reset or bust thing either, it's also just don't go overvalue on things before you have all your data points in. Both the Thunder and Rox made moves to move up, they just didn't mortgage the future for it. Look how long they've waited to make their move, they haven't even done it yet but if they do, they'll be maximizing the heck out of it with a far more reliable basis and reasoning for doing it.
A GM can still not tear things down but also not go far overboard on non guaranteed franchise altering talent. Doing the latter is desperation. The Kings aren't even proven to be good enough, nor is any talent currently on the roster proven to be good enough for that to even be a factor. I mean, what's to be desperate for? Missing the window on this team as it sits? Not if Fox wasn't enough reason at the end. He was the teams best player and they didn't bend to him yet again THANKFULLY. Last time it cost them Haliburton, a 2031 pick swap, and multiple first round picks to create the chance of signing someone significant.
The smart choice here is still what it is, no rebuild? Run it back then asses at the deadline with all those assets still in hand. If the Kings do these two things regardless of rebuilding or not: assume they are a winner (they might be but this team was hodgepodged at the deadline so who knows, initial returns say what they say) and/or assume they can easily backtrack out or keep lateral moving their way along after the fact then this thing is already DOA because reasoning is not in the building. And like I said, a similar player to Murphy was DeAndre Hunter. The last 3 years he's had a TS% of 60+ and the only thing keeping him from getting to 20 a game was likely a smaller USG%. He's also had a much higher defensive rating than Murphy but of course, Murphy was on a terribly injured team. Are their values equal? Probably not, and it depends on the injury concerns of Hunter but they can't be THIS far off. I personally wanted the Kings to make a play for Hunter because yes, the value might have made far more sense at the time. Hunter wasn't at a high like these guys.
I get the get in before it gets hot thing, but this isn't crypto here. They are seeking value and likely it is tied to what "might be". If the Kings think they are in the position where they can easily ignore risk then this is partly just more throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks. The Kings don't have enough youth to offer, stars, and value to make a trade palatable. They have to basically do this and give up major chunks of the little they do have. These are moves a teams makes when they've developed those assets and can survive a hit if it doesn't work. The Kings can't right now unless that guarantee is there in the form of a surefire superstar. If they don't have the assets to get that? Then you better start developing them now because settling for less and it not working yet again just means the hamster wheel continues on and you have less and less to offer over time to make moves forward like usual.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
What did the Knicks give up for Brunson again?
Adding something like that is entirely different. If you want to get in on someone before people realize what they are? Yeah, sign it, draft it, whatever. Don't trade for it unless you are knocking on the door and it's your final piece because yes, it's going to cost you. Look at the Suns, the Nets, etc. They tried to skip the process in their own way and look at what happened. They cleared it out and tried to build overnight. Don't be them, they're telling you not to with their results. Build on the known, not what could be.
I don't blame Vivek for not wanting to reset at the trade deadline last year. Two years ago we were the beam team. The year before we were top 6 for 70 games and were one of the better teams in terms of win/ loss record to miss the playoffs. Even though we were bad last year, we were still in the playoffs hunt for a good part of the season, and a lot of the slow start can probably be explained away by Fox and chemistry issues.
I know everyone else here has personal access to Vivek and his thinking, and may be quick to say so, but it's not impossible that our very terrible, unwatchable post trade deadline performance, combined with a new, more persuasive front office voice can convince Vivek to reset somewhat.
I don't know whether that's right or not but I feel a lot of assumptions are being made. It would be nice if people could acknowledge that they are assumptions rather than facts a little more often.
I know everyone else here has personal access to Vivek and his thinking, and may be quick to say so, but it's not impossible that our very terrible, unwatchable post trade deadline performance, combined with a new, more persuasive front office voice can convince Vivek to reset somewhat.
I don't know whether that's right or not but I feel a lot of assumptions are being made. It would be nice if people could acknowledge that they are assumptions rather than facts a little more often.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Thing is you’re assuming there’s a process and forgetting who our owner is. And Brunson being a free agent does change that but taking chances on guys like Murphy and garland is our only chance to a star. We have and won’t ever have cap space again with Sabonis and Keegan’s extension and for any stat that becomes available we won’t be on his list and or won’t have competing offers unless Carter hits.
I'm with you on this one. Trey Murphy would be great but that's essentially 3 first round picks and whatever we would otherwise get for Deebo, which, if you believe everyone here, could be another first and Jacquez (himself a recent first).
Joshyjosh31
Starter
He forced Lavine on us even if you don’t wanna reset why trade for the guy the bulls couldn’t get rid of six months prior without adding two first round picks. We were what the 9-10th seed at the time just get back young prospects for Fox
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Then let them for sure prove they are to that level in an impactful way at least while giving yourself time to make sure they are the piece you need. Teams like the ones I mentioned can take that risk because they squirreled their nuts away and did this the right way. They have the assets and tools necessary whereas the Kings were sleepwalking by comparison, time for them to wake up now. They gave it a go building around their franchise cornerstone, it's what it is. And a process is all we can hope for at this point right? Third times a charm maybe and finally those gut punches are registering? haha. Bottom line, it doesn't make these moves make any more sense than they do considering the risks involved. If that's Viveks plan like said, this is likely already DOA because this time if he's going for round 3 after going round 1: trading Hali for Domas, round 2 trading Fox for LaVine, then round 3 trading the future for one of these names at that point he's finally done it. Every bit has now been chewed up and spit out from all angles. The trifecta is complete. You traded young for established at a position of less value, lateral at best/worst with the guy you were building around, and now big chunks of your future. If it doesn't work, the real hurt the likes that was felt from 2007 and beyond is something Vivek can feel personally.
The LaVine deal wasn't the worst considering the situation. Monte or whoever had a say in that perhaps set up a situation where they can go either way at the fork in the road, but just because they don't run right down the win now path doesn't mean they can't continue to walk it. Get halfway down that path before you know where you're heading and odds are you end up like they have for nearly the last two decades and that's assuming. Monte assumed the Beam Team run back was wise. It wasn't and clearly he didn't understand that teams in direct competition got better at the previous deadline. That pretty much alone sealed his fate at that very moment. Now, the way the Kings can seal their fate permanently in this "era" is by assuming they are one non franchise talent away from anything. They might be, but they'll know that much better by December than June or July.
The Knicks also let success be their guide. They didn't just go out and flip every single asset they had from the jump. They built up Randle. They gave Barret time. They found the right coach, and so on. The Kings despite their age, despite all of that are not where the Knicks were when they finally started flipping major pieces. This current Kings team hasn't even had a training camp yet, don't have an offensive system, so trade for Garland and what if the defense is still so bad it doesn't matter? What do you do flip LaVine for that? Unlikely. Then it's going to a late in the game process of either developing it or being crafty with signings. That's going to be a multiyear process at least.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Because he was essentially free. Fox had ZERO VALUE. We have already heard there may have been more to this. LaVine's agent wanted him in Sac for whatever reason. Maybe because it feels good to be wanted. Who knows. The Kings got more than the Raptors got for Siakam. This is the same thing the Kings need to be thinking, if they are going to take a stab, take the low cost gamble. Not the high value one because in a worst case the Kings are in serious trouble.
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