Sergio should play again instead of Udoka

[drboiffard]

I don't want to appear as a blind fan because I am not- I'm only talking about giving him again 10-12 minutes and play faster with a second unit.

I understand Sergio had bad nights, and sucked the most against the Lakers in a clucth time, it was a painy loss, but hell, the team faced the Lakers without Kmart and Tyreke. Now, with Kmart and Tyreke, we suck against the ****ing Wizards. I obviously don't think having benched Sergio it's the only cause on the way down, because there are bigger reasons and also he never got minutes to think that, but I don't understand he gets DNP or 3 minutes appereances when he has shown to be pretty effective against some kind of teams if it's let enough minutes leading the second unit. Even with those bad nights, he's having better numbers than he had in Portland, and he's still the best of the team in +/-, even +/- per minute. I don't think the +/- has to be taken as a deffinitive argument, because it isn't. But what I really think this stat leaves pretty clear that the team is more effective when plays faster, and having a second unit wich works with a gear up it has been effective.

I obviously don't think Sergio is the solution in long term, but after seeing the last two matches I think it's obvious this team needs go faster and move the ball more. It's difficult to play worse, so it worth try. Even tough with Sergio you sacrifice deffense, playing Udoka is playing with one guy less in attack. Even our deffense sucks and with Sergio it will suck more, it's not good for us to play slow game: our bigs suck in static offense, the deffenses doubles on Tyreke and Kmart and the team ends up playing 1:1 attacks and losing. The team is playing the same gear with either Beno or Tyreke, but Sergio can be a spark off the bench. Beno with Kmart didn't worked last year, Tyreke with Kmart isn't working. Sergio with Kmart can really work.When runing the offense, Sergio can bring things that Beno doesn't, and as long as his shot isn't necessary if he's paired with Martin, I think Sergio can be pretty effective with Kmart playing a run'n'gun second unit that obviously sacrifices deffense to play faster.

 

[bajaden]

I don't want to appear as a blind fan because I am not- I'm only talking about giving him again 10-12 minutes and play faster with a second unit.

I understand Sergio had bad nights, and sucked the most against the Lakers in a clucth time, it was a painy loss, but hell, the team faced the Lakers without Kmart and Tyreke. Now, with Kmart and Tyreke, we suck against the ****ing Wizards. I obviously don't think having benched Sergio it's the only cause on the way down, because there are bigger reasons and also he never got minutes to think that, but I don't understand he gets DNP or 3 minutes appereances when he has shown to be pretty effective against some kind of teams if it's let enough minutes leading the second unit. Even with those bad nights, he's having better numbers than he had in Portland, and he's still the best of the team in +/-, even +/- per minute. I don't think the +/- has to be taken as a deffinitive argument, because it isn't. But what I really think this stat leaves pretty clear that the team is more effective when plays faster, and having a second unit wich works with a gear up it has been effective.

I obviously don't think Sergio is the solution in long term, but after seeing the last two matches I think it's obvious this team needs go faster and move the ball more. It's difficult to play worse, so it worth try. Even tough with Sergio you sacrifice deffense, playing Udoka is playing with one guy less in attack. Even our deffense sucks and with Sergio it will suck more, it's not good for us to play slow game: our bigs suck in static offense, the deffenses doubles on Tyreke and Kmart and the team ends up playing 1:1 attacks and losing. The team is playing the same gear with either Beno or Tyreke, but Sergio can be a spark off the bench. Beno with Kmart didn't worked last year, Tyreke with Kmart isn't working. Sergio with Kmart can really work.When runing the offense, Sergio can bring things that Beno doesn't, and as long as his shot isn't necessary if he's paired with Martin, I think Sergio can be pretty effective with Kmart playing a run'n'gun second unit that obviously sacrifices deffense to play faster.

In one game we lost mostly because of turnovers. Sergio is a turnover machine, so I don't see any help there. In both games we couldn't hit shots. Sergio isn't noted for his shooting, so I don't see any help there. Right now this is a team thats making a lot of mistakes, especially at crucial moments in the game. If your asking me, do I want Sergio, a player that probably plays more out of control than any player on the team to be in the game during those moments the answer is no. Add to that the fact that players like Casspi and Greene are being pinched for minutes, the last thing I want to do is take away more of their minutes for Sergio.

 

[drboiffard]

Sergio is a turnover machine, but he's also the best or the second best in AST/TO ratio. So I don't think the turnovers are an incremental issue in wich you theorically put Sergio and you'd have more TO, if the team is having turnovers it's because they offense it's a mess, and it's precissely there where Sergio can help.

 

[AriesMar27]

sergio is the best pg on the team... why is udoka even playing? he's a scrub. we cant trade udoka... but we shouldnt be playing him when we need someone to run the offense. though its only been 2 games, i dont see this evans/martin thing working. sergio has been inconsistent but he is our best pg. beno has played well but he is mostly scoring when the starters sit or are having off niights.

our offense is stagnant... i dont see it openning up and flowing anytime soon.

 

[pshn80]

I agree that Sergio carries a lot of negative baggage and therefore his playing time comes at a price but I have always liked it that he has changed the pace of the game. Often that change of pace has been helpful. And 'pace' is a problem for the team. Evans is too slow, Udrih is better, Sergio is probably too fast but he shakes things up.

 

[LookingAround]

Sergio need to feel confidence from his coach to be good. I think that when he has a good period he had an illusion that also if he'll make some mistakes he'll continue to be trusted by the coach, but when the first bad start came at the emotional game for him against Portland and he was shown his place.

Now also the team lost the playoff hopes and everybody plays for their statistics Sergio I prefer Sergio not to play then play 10 minutes at a situation he cannot play like himself (and be the scapegoat here).

 

[drboiffard]

I agree that Sergio carries a lot of negative baggage and therefore his playing time comes at a price but I have always liked it that he has changed the pace of the game. Often that change of pace has been helpful. And 'pace' is a problem for the team. Evans is too slow, Udrih is better, Sergio is probably too fast but he shakes things up.

Exactly.

 

[FakeInjury]

I agree with the "evans is too slow". Either the offense isn't working, or it needs to be explained to evans again. Step one, push the ball until you reach the rim. Step two, score the ball or pass to an open team mate. Step three, repeat. I admit i like to see Evans just free flow and do whatever he does, but it is not the way steve nash gets his Wins. Tyreke was a 1 and now i have to say, he is 100% a 2. I wouldn't go as far as to say we should bench tyreke and start Martin, but can't say we should bench Martin in favor of tyreke. Basically, this team still doesn't have a point who can run the offense and direct traffic and help us win for 48minutes. Beno can be counted on for 20 minutes of high level play on average. bottom line tyreke doesn't create for his team mates enough

 

[bajaden]

What we have in this thread is a serious case of the blind leading the blind. Enjoy your journey!

 

[pshn80]

What we have in this thread is a serious case of the blind leading the blind. Enjoy your journey!

And what do you have to say about the 'trade for god or whatever' corp?

 

[Spike]

I'll make the case for Sergio -
he's 23. Umm...that's about all I've got. I like that he's young and has potential. Where he fits, I don't know. Beno is steadier and more reliable, which is what the Kings need at this point.

 

[drboiffard]

You know, this is a common comment from a number of European posters and I'm puzzlied as to why. Do you really truly think that the Kings are simply playing for statistics? And why would they do that?

NBA and FIBA basketball are very different. It's not all on the easy "NBA has a higher level" because that's an obvious fact wich really has to do nothing with the real point: rules differences makes two different sports. If you see 10 FIBA matches you'll understand.

I don't think so, and I also don' think Sergio it's the best PG of this team as Aries said. Don't treat us as the same thing because we aren't. And we are not blind.

I'm not a fan of Sergio because he is spanish. The other four spanish who play in the NBA have consistent time when not injured and it will worth more to see them, specially when I'm waking up at 4 AM to see the games. I really like Sergio's play and I think he may be in the top 5 of court vision right now. When he's hot he makes amazing things happen. He makes the game more beautiful.

The problem is he should be treated like a rookie. He hadn't a chance to develop his play in three years in Portland because he had to fill a specific role in a closed system since the begining. He came with 20 and he has improved year by year, and this year it's being his best year besides his inconsistency. But he's still a kid and he had never important minutes like he had when Tyrke was injured. What do you expect from him against the Lakers in clucth time? He sucked because he has never had that confidence. It's like a rookie. He is still 23.

I understand in this roster Beno is better than him and maybe more useful for this team, but I think Sergio is talented enough to get 18-22 minutes and develop his confidene. He isn't useful if he doesn't get hot at all, and he can't get hot in 3 minutes appereances. What kills Sergio it's decission making. He won't never fit that if he doesn't play more and gets consistent time. That hurts self-confidence, and without self-confidence you can't be good at decission making.

 

[LookingAround]

NBA and FIBA basketball are very different. It's not all on the easy "NBA has a higher level" because that's an obvious fact wich really has to do nothing with the real point: rules differences makes two different sports. If you see 10 FIBA matches you'll understand.

I don't think so, and I also don' think Sergio it's the best PG of this team as Aries said. Don't treat us as the same thing because we aren't. And we are not blind.

I'm not a fan of Sergio because he is spanish. The other four spanish who play in the NBA have consistent time when not injured and it will worth more to see them, specially when I'm waking up at 4 AM to see the games. I really like Sergio's play and I think he may be in the top 5 of court vision right now. When he's hot he makes amazing things happen. He makes the game more beautiful.

The problem is he should be treated like a rookie. He hadn't a chance to develop his play in three years in Portland because he had to fill a specific role in a closed system since the begining. He came with 20 and he has improved year by year, and this year it's being his best year besides his inconsistency. But he's still a kid and he had never important minutes like he had when Tyrke was injured. What do you expect from him against the Lakers in clucth time? He sucked because he has never had that confidence. It's like a rookie. He is still 23.

I understand in this roster Beno is better than him and maybe more useful for this team, but I think Sergio is talented enough to get 18-22 minutes and develop his confidene. He isn't useful if he doesn't get hot at all, and he can't get hot in 3 minutes appereances. What kills Sergio it's decission making. He won't never fit that if he doesn't play more and gets consistent time. That hurts self-confidence, and without self-confidence you can't be good at decission making.

We are. Only Americans know basketball. We all Spanish/Israelis/Slovenians don't.

To Sergio - it's not about the level as much as about how you use him. He would have more or less the same advantages and disadvantages everywhere else. Try to remember Sergio at the Eurobasket at Spain when he was 3rd after Calderon and Cavezas and compare it to the WC a year before...

 

[VF21]

We are. Only Americans know basketball. We all Spanish/Israelis/Slovenians don't.

That crap stops right now.

We here at Kingsfans.com have done everything we can to welcome a whole hoard of new members to our board who have different opinions, different views and different ways of expressing them. We do not need nor do we deserve the sanctimonious sarcasm.

If you don't like it here and have that much of a problem with how we Kings fans represent our team, you are quite welcome to go elsewhere.

 

[drboiffard]

Au contraire I think he has bad luck having Tyreke and Beno above him, it's too bad luck. If Tyreke were a bust and Beno and the team had continued sucking as last year, he'd have had more chances at this point and maybe he'd be the fan favorite and he'd be sold as the newcoming of JWill. But the reality is this year Beno is earning his contract and the rookie is being incredibly amazing, so he has no real role in the rotation.

 

[VF21]

NBA and FIBA basketball are very different. It's not all on the easy "NBA has a higher level" because that's an obvious fact wich really has to do nothing with the real point: rules differences makes two different sports. If you see 10 FIBA matches you'll understand.

I don't think so, and I also don' think Sergio it's the best PG of this team as Aries said. Don't treat us as the same thing because we aren't. And we are not blind.

I'm not a fan of Sergio because he is spanish. The other four spanish who play in the NBA have consistent time when not injured and it will worth more to see them, specially when I'm waking up at 4 AM to see the games. I really like Sergio's play and I think he may be in the top 5 of court vision right now. When he's hot he makes amazing things happen. He makes the game more beautiful.

The problem is he should be treated like a rookie. He hadn't a chance to develop his play in three years in Portland because he had to fill a specific role in a closed system since the begining. He came with 20 and he has improved year by year, and this year it's being his best year besides his inconsistency. But he's still a kid and he had never important minutes like he had when Tyrke was injured. What do you expect from him against the Lakers in clucth time? He sucked because he has never had that confidence. It's like a rookie. He is still 23.

I understand in this roster Beno is better than him and maybe more useful for this team, but I think Sergio is talented enough to get 18-22 minutes and develop his confidene. He isn't useful if he doesn't get hot at all, and he can't get hot in 3 minutes appereances. What kills Sergio it's decission making. He won't never fit that if he doesn't play more and gets consistent time. That hurts self-confidence, and without self-confidence you can't be good at decission making.

You've made some very good points.

I am not trying to lump all of our new European posters together. What I was saying, however, was that I had seen that particular comment about statistics from several posters, each of whom happened to be European, and was curious about what seemed to me to be a common misconception.

 

[DesertFox]

I think Sergio is already a solid backup PG, and will become a very good backup for somebody, maybe the Kings, down the line. He's good enough to be part of an NBA rotation, unfortunately the team's 3 best players are in front of him.
Sergio is not going to help the Kings now, and developing the talent of the 3rd string PG is way down the list of this team's needs.

 

[bajaden]

And what do you have to say about the 'trade for god or whatever' corp?

Sorry, you lost me. But then thats not hard to do...

 

[Bricklayer]

They are radically different playes, and the reasons you have each on the floor are radically different. There are relatively few times when I can imagine it being a staight decision between them based on talent or whatever. Need ballhandling, passing, offense? Well that's one guy. Need defense, toughness, roleplaying? That's wnother. And never shall the twain cross paths.

 

[bajaden]

Look, I like Sergio. He's very young and he's very talented. As far as what country he comes from, I could care less. If he can help the team and he comes from Mars, thats fine with me. I have no bias against him because he's a european player. As a matter of fact my favorite european players are for the most part Spanish, or hispanic. Mainly because I think they're mentally tougher than most european players. Now I suspose I'll get attacked by all the other countrys in europe.

My problem with Sergio right now is that he only has one speed. a thousand miles an hour. Frankly, when he comes into the game I just hold my breath. He scares me to death at times. Almost all of his turnovers are unforced turnovers. J. Will, who I think was one of the most creative ball handlers I've ever seen was very similar in that he would drive you nuts with a stupid pass at the exact wrong time. Thats why he was traded for Mike Bibby, who wasn't nearly as flashy, but at the time was more solid.

Right now, Evans is the future of this franchise. Beno is playing solid basketball. That means Sergio's minutes are going to be somewhat limited. Thats just the way it is right now. I think he has a future in the league. Maybe with the Kings. But he has to learn to play more under control. He also has to learn that he can't create everything all by himself. He also needs to quit gambling on defense. I've seen him play solid defense at times. He also needs to find a way to fight through pick and rolls on defense. I'll give Beno credit. He was terrible defending the pick and roll last year and he's doing a much better job this year.

I want to finish with a note about the americans knowing everything about basketball. First off, I don't believe that. But remember, we did invent the damm game. So by and large most americans are fairly knowledgable about the game and most take a lot of pride in the game. I wouldn't portend to tell europeans about skiing, even though I'm an expert skier. I wouldn't lecture them on soccer, even though I played it as a kid in St. Louis when most americans didn't even know what soccer was. But you start lecturing me on baseball, which is the game I played, or basketball, which is my second love, well, I just might take umbrage with you. I appreciate your passion, and its certainly welcome here. But please! When I, or someone else disagrees with you, don't make it into a european/american thing. And that applies to any american that wants to imply that.

 

[drboiffard]

They are radically different playes, and the reasons you have each on the floor are radically different. There are relatively few times when I can imagine it being a staight decision between them based on talent or whatever. Need ballhandling, passing, offense? Well that's one guy. Need defense, toughness, roleplaying? That's wnother. And never shall the twain cross paths.

What I've seen this weekend it's precissely the bolded phrase: the team is struggling in offense. The ball movement has died. The team plays the same gear the complete game.

I'm not claiming Sergio above Beno in the rotation, I'm only saying that the uptempo he can bring to the game has worked in so many matches, and it can really work again in a lot of games. He's deffense sucks, but if he can get hot and make the team score in every possesion and in every fast break, the team scores more than the rival. That's why Sergio is the best of the team in +/- while Udoka is in the negative part of that table. Of course you can start talking about the necessity of a deffense in a long term, the "offense wins games and deffense wins championship", the "run'n'gun teams hadn't never won a ring" issue and that classical stuff against uptempo play, but I'm talking abuout right now. I'm saying that he can make a possitive impact in the team's game right now, because he can up the gears in a way Beno or Tyreke can't.

As long as the team continues losing and playing so ugly I'll claim minutes for him. If Kings were wining without him, I'd understand, as I understood it clearly before his 24pt game. But right now...the team doesn't work.

 

[Krunker]

Udoka generally provides good defense and when he is on can nail a bunch of 3's. Sergio provides energy and passing. I say keep inserting them in/out from the bench as needed depending on the situation.

 

[Uncia03]

What I've seen this weekend it's precissely the bolded phrase: the team is struggling in offense. The ball movement has died. The team plays the same gear the complete game.

I'm not claiming Sergio above Beno in the rotation, I'm only saying that the uptempo he can bring to the game has worked in so many matches, and it can really work again in a lot of games. He's deffense sucks, but if he can get hot and make the team score in every possesion and in every fast break, the team scores more than the rival. That's why Sergio is the best of the team in +/- while Udoka is in the negative part of that table. Of course you can start talking about the necessity of a deffense in a long term, the "offense wins games and deffense wins championship", the "run'n'gun teams hadn't never won a ring" issue and that classical stuff against uptempo play, but I'm talking abuout right now. I'm saying that he can make a possitive impact in the team's game right now, because he can up the gears in a way Beno or Tyreke can't.

As long as the team continues losing and playing so ugly I'll claim minutes for him. If Kings were wining without him, I'd understand, as I understood it clearly before his 24pt game. But right now...the team doesn't work.

I really don't like to see Sergio and Tyreke on the floor together at the same time. I don't think that they pair well together.

Of course I hate to see the Tyreke/Beno/Kevin line-up (Kevin as the SF? Really???), but that has come into play in each of the last two games.

We saw last year that a Kevin/Beno pairing does not work. Perhaps since Beno has stepped up his game it can be more effective, but I'm not remotely convinced.

So......

Even though Beno is far steadier, and even though his play so far this season has justified his contract, I'd much rather see Sergio as Tyreke's back-up. Trade Beno for expirings or something solid (Gortat, ect.), give Sergio 20 minutes a game (with very limited minutes paired with Tyreke), and if he shows he can be a bit more steady, sign him to a cheaper contract for a few years.

I do think that a Kevin/Sergio pairing would work decently, and if we ever do get a real post-up center, I think Sergio would really mesh well.

As long as we can avoid a minutes squeeze with Donte/Casspi, I'm fine with Sergio getting some of Beno's or Udoka's minutes as a change of pace guard to play along side Kevin. Though I really don't think that Sergio can play along-side Tyreke with any sort of effectiveness, as he's entirely the wrong type of guard to maximize our team's advantages.

 

[Gabriel]

Ime Udoka has had his ups and downs this season, just as every King has. Honestly, I love the toughness and hustle that he brings, I think it fits in well with this team. He's almost accustomed to our "on-the-rise" situation which is so similar to Ime's former team, the Trailblazers.

As for Sergio, he just needs to control the ball better and make better decisions. If he learns how to play more than one speed, he will be very effective and it would be easier for Westphal to find him some PT. I like his play-making abilities, as well as his ability to hit the open shot. Keep it up.

 

[Aenadin]

didnt sergio say he would bolt the nba and play in spain instead? or something like that?

if playing time should be given it should be to brockman and greene.

giving sergio playing time wont convince him to stay here.. and giving them to udoka might give us the idea of offering him MLE, he's 30 years old

it should be to donte and brock. while were at it sign brock now!

 

[drboiffard]

didnt sergio say he would bolt the nba and play in spain instead? or something like that?

if playing time should be given it should be to brockman and greene.

giving sergio playing time wont convince him to stay here.. and giving them to udoka might give us the idea of offering him MLE, he's 30 years old

it should be to donte and brock. while were at it sign brock now!

I haven't read that anywhwere, but other guy from here suggested the same.

About the other thing I've bolded - nothing further than reality. The only thing Sergio needs is PT and play with freedom. If Beno is traded and he gets consistent minutes here, he'd be the happier guy of the entire league. He shouldn't have come so early when he came with 20 years old, but that's done and there's no way back, so I guess he won't come back to Europe that easily, specially if he start to gets minutes.

 

[Kingsguy881]

sergio is the best pg on the team... why is udoka even playing? he's a scrub. we cant trade udoka... but we shouldnt be playing him when we need someone to run the offense. though its only been 2 games, i dont see this evans/martin thing working. sergio has been inconsistent but he is our best pg. beno has played well but he is mostly scoring when the starters sit or are having off niights.

our offense is stagnant... i dont see it openning up and flowing anytime soon.

LMMFAO!!!!! Wow. Yup, blind leading the blind. I'm staying out of this one. The great thing about being a Kings fan? I don't have to actually spend time reading the opinions of people who are totally ignorant of how to build a winning team.

Sergio's the answer!!! Fake Jason Statham will lead us to the promised land! He's the best pg on the team!! ROTGLMMFAO!!!!!!!

 

[drboiffard]

Sam Amick talks about Sergio being out of the rotation.

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2477759.html

I'm still thinking that Sergio fits the best with Martin and he should be in the rotation, at least against teams as Knicks or Suns when he can really be effective.

Give him some of Tyreke and Beno minutes from the first half and let them fresh for the second, because it's then when they're needed the most. The minutes of both PG/SG are almost being shared between three players; it's very normal they run out of gas at the end of the games.

 

[AriesMar27]

it sucks that he wont be getting any minutes but thats what happens... what do you think will happen when garcia comes back? who loses minutes then? i would hope nocioni but it'll probably be greene.

sergio is in a messed up situation, it just goes to show you that a change of scenery isnt always the best thing for a player.

 

[dbfish]

I don't see Sergio or Udoka getting many minutes, barring injuries.

It wouldn't bother me if one or both got traded away.