Scott Howard-Cooper: Jason Williams an Option?

[nbrans]

In the annals of stupid ideas, signing up a 31 year old power forward and a 32 year old point guard in consecutive offseasons during an ostensible rebuild would have to take the cake.

From Sacramento and Miami and every surreal place in between comes the reality that the Kings and representatives of Jason Williams, if not Williams himself, will probably be talking within a few days to explore the possibility of his return to the Kings as a free agent.

Petrie's not this dumb.

Right?

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013595.html

 

[Warhawk]

In the annals of stupid ideas, signing up a 31 year old power forward and a 32 year old point guard in consecutive offseasons during an ostensible rebuild would have to take the cake.


Petrie's not this dumb.

Right?

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013595.html

If Beno bails, I would be OK with this for a one or two (second year at team option) year-type deal ONLY. Have him start and Sean be the backup. And only if there were not a real chance of getting a decent young PG to come in instead....

 

[SacKings7]

I'd prefer Duhon

 

[Showtime]

This was something I've been thinking about when coming up with ideas in the PG market. Since there are some teams (like the Clippers and Knicks) that could offer more money to the better PG prospects (like Beno and Jose Calderon), I was thinking of alternatives if Beno left. Jason Williams was one of the PG's I thought could be obtained at or below the MLE, and is cheaper than Beno. Signing Anthony Johnson to a one year deal was another idea, if only for insurance since Singletary will hopefully back up the starter. I wouldn't mind seeing White Chocolate back, especially the more mature, not-shooting-27-foot-3-pointers-on-fast-break Jason Williams. He's had some injury issues, but if the price is right (below MLE), I wouldn't mind him with the more athletic lineup we have.

Jason Williams/Singletary
Martin/Salmons
Artest/Garcia
Moore/Thompson/Sheldon Williams
Miller/Hawes/SAR

I'd prefer Duhon

He can defend, and that's about it. You might as well put Douby at the point.

 

[nbrans]

I'd take any point guard in America under 27 with a pulse before I'd take Jason Williams. There is just zero, zilch point bringing in more guys over 30. Zero. Zilch. At least X point guard under 27 with a pulse has a chance of getting better and being someone who is part of a rebuild down the line. Look at how we pulled Beno off the scrap heap. There are guys like that bouncing around the league in bad situations who could be better with some time.

Arroyo would be better. Duhon sucks, but he would be better. Some kid bouncing around the DL would be better. Making Sean Singletary the starting point guard and losing how ever many games that results in would be better.

Signing 32 year old PGs is NOT HOW YOU REBUILD.

 

[VF21]

^^^Totally agree.

As much as I defend Geoff Petrie, if he brought the current version of Jason Williams, older, slower and with bad knees, back to the Kings I would NOT be a happy camper. It makes zero sense, except in a "Ric Bucher-type" attempt to create something to talk about. We drafted Sean Singletary. I'd much sooner see him take the slot.

 

[Warhawk]

^^^Totally agree.

As much as I defend Geoff Petrie, if he brought the current version of Jason Williams, older, slower and with bad knees, back to the Kings I would NOT be a happy camper. It makes zero sense, except in a "Ric Bucher-type" attempt to create something to talk about. We drafted Sean Singletary. I'd much sooner see him take the slot.

I just think you can't go into the season with Sean and QD. If it came down to Jason being added for a year or the linup above, I'd add Jason for a year and look for a PG in trade or next year's draft.

 

[VF21]

Have you seen Jason lately? He's practically hobbled. Both knees are bad. I don't think we can go into the season with QD and Sean, either, but bringing back Jason Williams isn't a solution, it adds to the problem. If we're truly rebuilding, we have to quit even thinking about bringing veterans in for the short term. It doesn't do any good and, in fact, just eats up money that could be used for younger players with at least a possibility of some future with the team.

Of course, this isn't even touching on the animosity Jason still has for the front office. That sore is still raw and open for him. I strongly doubt he'd even consider a return to Sacramento and I wouldn't blame him.

 

[Warhawk]

Have you seen Jason lately? He's practically hobbled. Both knees are bad. I don't think we can go into the season with QD and Sean, either, but bringing back Jason Williams isn't a solution, it adds to the problem. If we're truly rebuilding, we have to quit even thinking about bringing veterans in for the short term. It doesn't do any good and, in fact, just eats up money that could be used for younger players with at least a possibility of some future with the team.

Of course, this isn't even touching on the animosity Jason still has for the front office. That sore is still raw and open for him. I strongly doubt he'd even consider a return to Sacramento and I wouldn't blame him.

Actually, no I haven't - I didn't know he was so wobbly. Last I saw him was probably over a year ago.

And you did see this in my original post, right?

And only if there were not a real chance of getting a decent young PG to come in instead....

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I'd take any point guard in America under 27 with a pulse before I'd take Jason Williams. There is just zero, zilch point bringing in more guys over 30. Zero. Zilch. At least X point guard under 27 with a pulse has a chance of getting better and being someone who is part of a rebuild down the line. Look at how we pulled Beno off the scrap heap. There are guys like that bouncing around the league in bad situations who could be better with some time.

Arroyo would be better. Duhon sucks, but he would be better. Some kid bouncing around the DL would be better. Making Sean Singletary the starting point guard and losing how ever many games that results in would be better.

Signing 32 year old PGs is NOT HOW YOU REBUILD.

AHEM, start singletary and let the losses roll in. i can guarantee he will be better in yr 2 with all the learning lessons from yr 1. what do we have to lose?? only thing i could think of is, a higher draft pick-

 

[Sptsjunkie]

In the annals of stupid ideas, signing up a 31 year old power forward and a 32 year old point guard in consecutive offseasons during an ostensible rebuild would have to take the cake.


Petrie's not this dumb.

Right?

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/013595.html

It depends on what type of deal they are talking. JWilliams with a small contract that expries by 2010 it smarter than overpaying Beno to a long term deal that hurts our future flexibility.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

The Miami Heat won the championship in spite of JWill, not because of JWill.

Look, the writing was on the wall; ever since he joined the Heat, his assists started to regress, his defense remained abysmal and offensively he's still the same chucker (not a shooter) that he already was. Yes he toned down that play, but his efficiency is among the worst among point guards, with the horrible shooting percentages. Yes, he doesn't turn the ball over, I'll give him that, but he's really losing traction in this league...clearly, age, injuries, etc. are taking a toll on him.

 

[Showtime]

I'd take any point guard in America under 27 with a pulse before I'd take Jason Williams. There is just zero, zilch point bringing in more guys over 30. Zero. Zilch. At least X point guard under 27 with a pulse has a chance of getting better and being someone who is part of a rebuild down the line. Look at how we pulled Beno off the scrap heap. There are guys like that bouncing around the league in bad situations who could be better with some time.

Arroyo would be better. Duhon sucks, but he would be better. Some kid bouncing around the DL would be better. Making Sean Singletary the starting point guard and losing how ever many games that results in would be better.

Signing 32 year old PGs is NOT HOW YOU REBUILD.

Since when has the team gone totally in rebuilding mode? If that were the case, Hawes and the other younger guys would have started last season because it's more important to develop the future than win in a meaningless season, right? Oh, Theus wanted to win, sorry.

If Singletary is the future PG of the team, then why not sign a veteran to play alongside him in a dual role? Have the vet start and play a few minutes, then let the younger guy take over the reins and develop him. Why have two young guys, one that couldn't make it and the other too young to make it? I'm not saying there aren't better options out there, but how is taking a journeyman for one or two years at a time and watching them leave better than signing a vet who is also temporary? What's the difference in watching a temporary vet for a year or a temporary young guy for a year? Chris Paul played under vets until he was ready to become the star and lead the team. What's wrong with that?

 

[nbrans]

Since when has the team gone totally in rebuilding mode? If that were the case, Hawes and the other younger guys would have started last season because it's more important to develop the future than win in a meaningless season, right? Oh, Theus wanted to win, sorry. If Singletary is the future PG of the team, then why not sign a veteran to play alongside him in a dual role? Have the vet start and play a few minutes, then let the younger guy take over the reins. I'm not saying there aren't better options out there, but how is taking a journeyman for one or two years at a time and watching them leave better than signing a vet who is also temporary? What's the difference in watching a temporary vet for a year or a temporary young guy for a year?

Hopefully the rebuilding era "no actually for real this time" started with the Bibby trade. After that the young guys got more minutes and things opened up a bit.

I have no problem signing a veteran to take the starting PG, even if it's seen as a temporary move. Provided that veteran is under 27. There are a ton of guys like this who are available. Tons. Free agency, D League, rec rooms... you name it. If that guy works out, great! Could be part of the future. If that guy doesn't work out, WHO CARES. We lose games and get a better draft pick in a draft loaded with point guards.

The best/worst case scenario with a veteran PG is that he helps us win games while having absolutely no place in the future of the team, depriving us of both a good draft pick AND the opportunity to develop a young point guard. It's the stupidest possible move in a rebuild. Not like Jason Williams is going to help mold the youth of the future with his wonderful influence.

Mikki Moore is one thing because he's a good guy and he might make for decent trade bait this season and next. Still on the whole stupid, but not the most idiotic move ever. Signing Jason Williams would just be out and out 110% pure stupid.

 

[bloom]

Please lets not bring Jason back. I enjoyed him when he was here, his game and style was fun, but that has changed. Plus the guy is too old. If we want to have another point guard, lets find somebody younger (24/25 years). I’m really hoping Geoff doesn’t sign him.

 

[chrisnu]

No. Not even as a stop-gap. This move would be like Rory Sparrow. Bad idea.

 

[SacKings7]

Since when has the team gone totally in rebuilding mode? If that were the case, Hawes and the other younger guys would have started last season because it's more important to develop the future than win in a meaningless season, right? Oh, Theus wanted to win, sorry.

If Singletary is the future PG of the team, then why not sign a veteran to play alongside him in a dual role? Have the vet start and play a few minutes, then let the younger guy take over the reins and develop him. Why have two young guys, one that couldn't make it and the other too young to make it? I'm not saying there aren't better options out there, but how is taking a journeyman for one or two years at a time and watching them leave better than signing a vet who is also temporary? What's the difference in watching a temporary vet for a year or a temporary young guy for a year? Chris Paul played under vets until he was ready to become the star and lead the team. What's wrong with that?

Of course Theus wanted to win. It's his job, remember? Just because our young guys didn't start doesn't mean we're not rebuilding. Yes Theus wanted to win, but it appeared as though Petrie and the Maloofs said it was time to rebuild (hence the Bibby trade). Whether or not they had that mindset at the beginning of the season is irrelevant. The Bibby trade was an obvious sign that we're rebuilding

 

[Showtime]

Of course Theus wanted to win. It's his job, remember? Just because our young guys didn't start doesn't mean we're not rebuilding. Yes Theus wanted to win, but it appeared as though Petrie and the Maloofs said it was time to rebuild (hence the Bibby trade). Whether or not they had that mindset at the beginning of the season is irrelevant. The Bibby trade was an obvious sign that we're rebuilding

No, the Bibby trade was to save money when Martin's big 50+ mil contract kicks in this upcomming season. Bibby's deal would have put the team over the tax limit. Part of it was Mike getting injured and how easily he was replaced by Beno, but the main issue was the money.

Also, that comment you are specifically addressing was in response to a previous comment about the team not wanting veterans because they are in rebuilding mode. My response was to show that the team hadn't gone into full rebuilding mode yet ala Boston last season.

It's going to be difficult to get a PG who will be part of the future of the team unless that's going to be Singletary, in which case it doesn't really matter who they bring in that PG spot until he takes over. Of course, it really wouldn't matter who they get if the team is in full rebuilding mode, but since it does matter to people and the team, it shows the team isn't in full rebuilding mode and therefore a vet would be an option.





More on the topic: the reason I said Jason might be a viable option was because the other FA PG's will probably have other destinations. West, Beno, Calderdon, Duhon, Pargo (when he opts out), Arenas, all don't have Sac on the top if their lists. So, if the team can't get one of those guys, then they are looking at a Jason Williams level guy unless they can find that diamond in the rough ala Beno again.

 

[SacKings7]

No, the Bibby trade was to save money when Martin's big 50+ mil contract kicks in this upcomming season. Bibby's deal would have put the team over the tax limit. Part of it was Mike getting injured and how easily he was replaced by Beno, but the main issue was the money.

Also, that comment you are specifically addressing was in response to a previous comment about the team not wanting veterans because they are in rebuilding mode. My response was to show that the team hadn't gone into full rebuilding mode yet ala Boston last season.

It's going to be difficult to get a PG who will be part of the future of the team unless that's going to be Singletary, in which case it doesn't really matter who they bring in that PG spot until he takes over. Of course, it really wouldn't matter who they get if the team is in full rebuilding mode, but since it does matter to people and the team, it shows the team isn't in full rebuilding mode and therefore a vet would be an option.





More on the topic: the reason I said Jason might be a viable option was because the other FA PG's will probably have other destinations. West, Beno, Calderdon, Duhon, Pargo (when he opts out), Arenas, all don't have Sac on the top if their lists. So, if the team can't get one of those guys, then they are looking at a Jason Williams level guy unless they can find that diamond in the rough ala Beno again.

Well I kinda think we're both right. If Artest opts out then we'll find an answer because if the Maloofs still want to win now, then they'll pursue Artest..hard. If not, then they'll probably just let him walk.

 

[rfdong]

rebuilding

Rebuilding doesn't mean throw the young'uns out there. There's plenty of guys who can't mentally take the beating of playing poorly and getting yelled at, yanked etc. Some guys lose their confidence and can't relax and play. As for Calderon (I saw his name a couple of times) no way Toronto lets him walk. Especially after trading Ford. If we could get Calderon then the PG of the future is moot. He's the real deal.

 

[Gary]

I am not against this.. Jason Williams is no John Stockton, but it seems in the last few yeas Williams has been better at ball control and passing. He is getting better with age, and the Miami situation wasn't a good one because Wade (although not a PG according to him) was handeling the ball most of the time.


So I am not against Williams until we get a young guy in here to start (and I don't mean Singletary)

 

[jimbodan]

Depends on a lot of things. It would have to be cheap, it would have to be short 1-2 years, and he would have to be healthy. I normally agree with not bring in vets for the short term, but I feel that on a young developing team having a point guard that can get the team into and run the offense effectively to get other players their shots is crucial for their confidence and development.

If Jason is healthy I would be ok with a 1 year deal with maybe a team option (if that is even possible) for maybe 2-3 million a year. Let him start this year, bring Singletary off the bench and then next draft grab one of the stud PG's and if Singletary looks good then decline the option on J-Will. If not keep Williams around for 1 more year while our new PG develops.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm surprised that some folks object to a potential J-Will signing on the grounds that signing a 32-yo PG is not the way you rebuild. To me, it looks like exactly the type of move a team in rebuilding mode would make. Remember that we wouldn't be looking at a 5/$45M contract here, but something more on the lines of 2 years and maybe a little over half of the MLE (3-3.5 per?).

It makes more sense to me to bring in an aging vet (with name recognition) on the cheap than to do something rash like, say, assume that your second-round pick should be your starter for the year. Singletary might turn out to be good - we can go pie-in-the-sky and even say Singletary might turn into a legit starting PG in the league - but it's not sensible to assume that he's ready to go out there now, full time, to take his knocks and learn from them. Better to have him ease his way in, and if he's starting caliber he can take over midway through the season as your aging vet becomes the backup. At less than $4M per, the aging vet won't be a big financial hit as a backup, and won't be unbenchable.

If we can find a way to land a young PG who could expect to hold the position for 5 years (maybe Felton?) I think we should do it, but I find it unlikely. The best alternative seems to be to fork over a small amount of short-term money to an aging vet, and from our perspective I don't see why Jason Williams is any worse than any other.

 

[beb0p]

Pardon me, but wasn't JWill last sighted healthy over two years ago? With our luck, he's going to have season-ending knee surgery one day after we sign him.

He's not the only veteran PG on the market. I say bring Anthony Johnson back for one year (at the vet min of course); invite John Lucas III, Dee Brown, and Andre Barrett to camp; and let them battle it out with QD and Singletary for the PG spot.

 

[hrdboild]

I'm one of the biggest JWill fans here, but even I will tell you how bad of an idea that would be. When he was here before he was out of control-- but in a youthful, over-energetic, glimpses of genius sort of way. Now he's injured most of the season, hobbled when he is playing, and basically just defers to his teammates. He's not much of a playmaker anymore because he can't get by anybody. And his defense has always been atrocious.

Yes we do need a veteran fill-in PG for a couple of seasons until we can either snap one up in the draft or pay for a marquee free-agent, but there are better options available. I'm in favor of Keyon Dooling provided he'll sign for something reasonable. Jason Williams would only be okay as a last minute desperation move, and even so we might be better off waiting for something to trickle down to the waiver wire like Udrih did last year.

There's also some possible trade options. Raymond Felton might be on the block. Memphis is going to have to trade one of Lowry, Conley, or Crittenton. Even Ridnour or Watson in Seattle might not be a bad idea if we could dump Kenny Thomas or Mikki or Shareef on them because their contracts all have two years left on them. Supposedly Marcus Williams is on the block too.

 

[BMiller52]

I am not against this.. Jason Williams is no John Stockton, but it seems in the last few yeas Williams has been better at ball control and passing. He is getting better with age, and the Miami situation wasn't a good one because Wade (although not a PG according to him) was handeling the ball most of the time.


So I am not against Williams until we get a young guy in here to start (and I don't mean Singletary)

Co-signed. Even if Singletary is the PG of the future I don't want to just throw him out there and kill his confidence. I don't see what's so bad about JWill for 1-2 years.

 

[Bricklayer]

I would like to see this mythological kid who gets thrown out on the court and has his confidence destroyed. Who is he exactly? Names? Anyone? I call strawman.

That said:

a) there is no guarantee Singletary even makes the squad
b) I mentioned JWill as a possibility last year as a replacement for Bibby. Not as any sort of long term plan. But just as a one year pseudo-patch to let him wrap it up here, let the fans see an old fav, and as a guy who really can't give you more than maybe 50 games and 25min/gm anymore, as a guy who would not necessarily interfere with a young PG if we had them.

Obviously any longer deal is idiotic. Signing him rather than a younger guy is idiotic. All sorts of ways to make it idiotic. But for a one year homecoming/part-time hold the fort down until we get a real player gig, that does not damage our future cap, its not necessarily as unthinkable as it sounds.

 

[creative one]

Since when did Singletary become the PG of the future? I'm not knocking him, but a senior second-round sub six-footer doesn't seem to have much of a future in this league beyond journeyman back-up. The kid can definitely play--but that was in college, where he had 95% of the plays called FOR him. I think it's safe to say that he's no Derrick Rose.

No doubt, we need a PG to come in and run the show until we can find a PG of the future. I just hope it's not J-Dub (no offense to him, as he's part of the reason why I'm a Kings fan).

 

[Showtime]

I'm hearing a lot of "Don't have a problem getting a cheap temporary vet until things develop, just not J-Will", but for those people, who is better? Who can the Kings get if the top prospects get snagged by other teams? What if Dooling and Dickau are the best avaliable besides Williams? Anthony Johnson might be avaliable for another year, but what if the pickings are so slim that the "anybody but Williams" view might not be the best idea?

 

[hrdboild]

The problem with Williams is that he's unlikely to give you a steady veteran presence in the lineup anyway given his injury history, and he's a straight-up terrible defensive player which doesn't send the right message to the young guys who you're trying to get to play defense every night. Besides, his best attributes are compromised by his bad knees so he's not even that good of a PG anymore. He can walk the ball up for you and shoot a bad percentage from the field while failing to guard anybody on the other end. Surely we can do better than that. The only possible advantage I see to signing Jason Williams for a year is nostalgia.