Sacto/Memphis/Miami

[Smills91]

Miami gives
Jason Williams
James Posey
Wayne Simien
2007 top 5 protected 1st round pick

Miami gets:
Mike Bibby
Jason Hart
Tarance Kinsey

Memphis trades:
Pau Gasol
Brian Cardinal
Damon Stoudamire
Tarance Kinsey

Memphis gets:
Wayne Simien
Corliss Williamson*
James Posey*
Vitaly Potapenko*
Top 10 protected pick from Sacto
Top 5 protected pick from Miami

Kings get:
Pau Gasol
Damon Stoudamire
Brian Cardinal



Kings new roster:

C: Brad Miller, Justin Williams
PF: Pau Gasol, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Kenny Thomas
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia, Brian Cardinal
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Jason Williams, Damon Stoudamire, Ronnie Price

Kings add the frontcourt piece that they need, but take on longer contracts in the process....

Miami Roster:
C: Shaq, Zo, Barron
PF: Walker, Haslem, Doleac
SF: Jones, Kapono, Wright
SG: Wade, Kinsey, Hart
PG: Bibby, Payton, Quinn

Adds that outsie shooting playmaker the team desperately needs without sacrificing much depth

Memphis Roster:
C: Stromile Swift, Jake Tsakalidis, Vitaly Potapenko
PF: Hakim Warrick, Wayne Simien, Lawrewnce Roberts, A. Johnson
SF: Rudy Gay, James Posey, Corliss Williamson
SG: Mike Miller, Dahntay Jones
PG: Chucky Atkins, Will Conroy, Kyle Lowry

They about 20 million in expiring deals(for their undesired deals-Cardinal/Stoudamire) and gain a nice PF prospect along with 2 probable-mid first round picks in the 2007 draft

 

[nbrans]

This trade is terrible for Sacramento. With Williams, Stoudamire, Cardinal and Gasol they've screwed their capspace forever and are left with a team that's -- at best -- marginally better than the team they had before. PLUS they've given up their pick. How in the world is this team going to get better in the next five years?? It's just terrible for Sacramento. Any trade that involves Pau Gasol can't mortage the future or else you're left with a mediocre team for years with no hope of improvement, and that's exactly what you've done here.

 

[Wuster]

This trade is terrible for Sacramento. With Williams, Stoudamire, Cardinal and Gasol they've screwed their capspace forever and are left with a team that's -- at best -- marginally better than the team they had before. PLUS they've given up their pick. How in the world is this team going to get better in the next five years?? It's just terrible for Sacramento. Any trade that involves Pau Gasol can't mortage the future or else you're left with a mediocre team for years with no hope of improvement, and that's exactly what you've done here.

This trade leaves Sacramento just slightly better than Memphis is now and to your point, mortgages the future. I'm pretty skeptical.

 

[Smills91]

This trade is terrible for Sacramento. With Williams, Stoudamire, Cardinal and Gasol they've screwed their capspace forever and are left with a team that's -- at best -- marginally better than the team they had before. PLUS they've given up their pick. How in the world is this team going to get better in the next five years?? It's just terrible for Sacramento. Any trade that involves Pau Gasol can't mortage the future or else you're left with a mediocre team for years with no hope of improvement, and that's exactly what you've done here.

You gotta give to get...Martin stays...with a core of Salmons/Garcia//Douby/Martin/Artest/Gasol you're able to build around that...Miller/Williams/Stoudamire are temporary stopgaps. Swift/Cardinal can be serviceable. Miller still has value to be traded as does Rahim. It's very possible to move one of those deals with another undesireable deal to gain flexibility. With that core, I wouldn't expect much back, but this isn't the HERE ALL END ALL move...it just gets the Kings to the point where they now have a legitimate core to build around.

 

[Miles and Miles]

That starting 5 are 10 times better then what we have now.

 

[beb0p]

Memphis gets:
Wayne Simien
Corliss Williamson*
James Posey*
Vitaly Potapenko*
Top 10 protected pick from Sacto
Top 5 protected pick from Miami

Memphis has said it'll take a good young player and a HIGH draft pick to get Gasol.

This deal gives them neither. The injury-prone Wayne Simien does not count as a good young players.

And why would Memphis take this deal over what the Bulls can give them?

 

[Smills91]

Memphis has said it'll take a good young player and a HIGH draft pick to get Gasol.

This deal gives them neither. The injury-prone Wayne Simien does not count as a good young players.

And why would Memphis take this deal over what the Bulls can give them?

They've said they wanted that for Gasol and Gasol only...this deal gives them two 1st rounders which will be pretty decent even after the trade...10-17 range IMO and then it clears off 2 of their three BAD contracts...I'd say Memphis would be foolish to pass on this offer if it came their way.

 

[Troy]

I like that so we give: Bibby 12.5M contract option
(Corliss, Pot, Hart) around $12M expiring
1st round top 10 pick
24.5M total + pick

We get: Gasol, Williams, Cardinal, etc etc

I could live with that. Bibby is getting too much for not playing any Defense and being a shot 1st PG, really a small SG. We have a good young Douby, Price in the wings now...we'd get back Williams who is a real entertainer with his White Chocolate moves. We get Gasol who is a All Star Forward and is not that old at 26. We take on Cardinal's contract which kind of sucks, but you have to pay to get what you want.
We keep Martin, Artest, Miller.

I can live with that. How does a guaranteed pick work? Do we have to buy some other teams top 10 pick if we don't suck enough to earn a top 10 pick ourselves? Does it have to be a top 10 pick this coming draft that is loaded?

Interesting. I like Williams and miss his sweet passing and has improved his shot and grew up (not needing to rely on crazy moves).
I love Gasol who is big and is a great baller especially at 7 foot. We would have twin towers with him and Miller which I would love...about time.

 

[vfettke]

i like the starting 5. i hate everything else about it. bad contracts. we possibly lose a draft pick. no thanks

 

[whozit]

The protection is for the team giving up the pick. If it is a top ten protected it means the team owing the pick doesn't have to give it up (usually the debt is just delayed for a following year) if the pick is in the top ten. The level and terms of the protection gets spelled out in the trade agreement.

 

[beb0p]

They've said they wanted that for Gasol and Gasol only...this deal gives them two 1st rounders which will be pretty decent even after the trade...10-17 range IMO and then it clears off 2 of their three BAD contracts...I'd say Memphis would be foolish to pass on this offer if it came their way.

Damon Stoudamire does not have a bad contract. He is a starting PG who makes less than John Salmon. Memphis wants him to handle the point and to tutor Kyle Lowry until the youngster is ready to take over. Memphis does want to give up Damon is my point.

Now, getting rid of Cardinal is good. But that shouldn't be the deal breaker considering the Bulls is dangling either Ben Gordon or Luol Deng plus a draft pick.

Our pick is likely mid-lottery and the Heat's pick late first round.

Think about it, Gordon or Deng alone is better than Wayne Simiens plus a mid-lottery pick and a late first round pick. Because Simiens is bench material and you're lucky to get a decent role player with the late pick. That leaves our mid-lottery pick as the best item in this deal, and with this draft, that means another role player. So in essense, you want Memphis to trade Gasol, their starting PG, and a bad contract for two bench players and a role player. Funny.

This deal does not beat what Chicago has to offer. Note that Memphis turned down the Bulls because they wanted Chicago to throw in an extra good young player. That means the Grizz wanted TWO young studs + a draft pick from Chicago. Doesn't mean they'll get them, but that's what they want.

 

[Smills91]

Damon Stoudamire does not have a bad contract. He is a starting PG who makes less than John Salmon. Memphis wants him to handle the point and to tutor Kyle Lowry until the youngster is ready to take over. Memphis does want to give up Damon is my point.

Now, getting rid of Cardinal is good. But that shouldn't be the deal breaker considering the Bulls is dangling either Ben Gordon or Luol Deng plus a draft pick.

Our pick is likely mid-lottery and the Heat's pick late first round.

Think about it, Gordon or Deng alone is better than Wayne Simiens plus a mid-lottery pick and a late first round pick. Because Simiens is bench material and you're lucky to get a decent role player with the late pick. That leaves our mid-lottery pick as the best item in this deal, and with this draft, that means another role player. So in essense, you want Memphis to trade Gasol, their starting PG, and a bad contract for two bench players and a role player. Funny.

This deal does not beat what Chicago has to offer. Note that Memphis turned down the Bulls because they wanted Chicago to throw in an extra good young player. That means the Grizz wanted TWO young studs + a draft pick from Chicago. Doesn't mean they'll get them, but that's what they want.

Stoudamire and Swift could be substituted for one another and you need to go check out Miami's record...it'd be a miracle if they broke into the 20's...the picks after the lottery are based SOLELY on record.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

PLEASE do us all a favor and get off the got soul band wagon. hes a good player but not GREAT. where do all these threads come up from? as soon as something becomes available they start jumping. IE lenny wilkens. cmon! we're not that desperate to get back into the 8th seed are we?

 

[BMiller52]

PLEASE do us all a favor and get off the got soul band wagon. hes a good player but not GREAT. where do all these threads come up from? as soon as something becomes available they start jumping. IE lenny wilkens. cmon! we're not that desperate to get back into the 8th seed are we?

We shouldn't be but some people want instant gratification rather than long term success.

 

[Smills91]

We shouldn't be but some people want instant gratification rather than long term success.

I swear man, some of you think the UNKNOWN is better than the proven commodity. How'd that work out for the Bulls...Brand is 10x the player that Chandler is. I'd much rather have Gasol at this point for 2 reasons, he's PROVEN and he's ready to produce NOW(as is Kevin). You draft a big that takes 3-4 years before they're ready to produce then you've wasted the past 3-4 years of Martin. Martin is ready to go NOW, you add a big like Gasol and have Artest on the team, that's the best 2-3-4 combo in the league. We'd obviously need to add the right PG and hopefully gather another big at some point. Gasol is probably up there IMO to Howard, Bosh and Dirk as the younger bigs under 30 that I'd want on my team now.

 

[GoGoGadget]

I swear man, some of you think the UNKNOWN is better than the proven commodity. How'd that work out for the Bulls...Brad is 10x the player that Chandler is. I'd much rather have Gasol at this point for 2 reasons, he's PROVEN and he's ready to produce NOW(as is Kevin). You draft a big that takes 3-4 years before they're ready to produce then you've wasted the past 3-4 years of Martin. Martin is ready to go NOW, you add a big like Gasol and have Artest on the team, that's the best 2-3-4 combo in the league. We'd obviously need to add the right PG and hopefully gather another big at some point. Gasol is probably up there IMO to Howard, Bosh and Dirk as the younger bigs under 30 that I'd want on my team now.

Hence the instant gratification comment.

Brad has been 10x the player that Chandler has been up to this point, but guess which one I'd rather have on the team right now?

 

[Smills91]

Hence the instant gratification comment.

Brad has been 10x the player that Chandler has been up to this point, but guess which one I'd rather have on the team right now?

Sorry for the typ-o it was suppose to read BRAND....i.e. Elton Brand for the #2 pick in the draft that year(Tyson Chandler)...I'd MUCH rather have Brand than Chandler, and that was the point I was making, I'd rather have Pau Gasol than, Yi Jianlian/Al Horford etc etc etc.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Sorry for the typ-o it was suppose to read BRAND....

Gotcha.

 

[beb0p]

Stoudamire and Swift could be substituted for one another and you need to go check out Miami's record...it'd be a miracle if they broke into the 20's...the picks after the lottery are based SOLELY on record.

Swift? You want Memphis to give up their top two big men in one trade? Swift's contract is pretty fair for a big man and it's has only 2.5 years left. They don't need to get rid of him, especially if they are to trade Gasol away.

As for Miami's record.... why do you think they want Bibby in the first place? - To jump start their record and shoot up the standings. Miami is going to rock and roll with Bibby in their lineup. They're #15 currently, so you figure they'll probaby be somewhere around #18-22 with Shaq and Bibby. That's not a useful first round pick. You usually get a bench/borederline starter in that range. So why would Memphis want that pick?

But let's say you're right. Miami ends up picking #15. So together with our #10 and Wayne Simiens, we package them; and the Bulls counter with Ben Gordon + their own #21. The Bulls still have the better package. And the Memphis already said no to them.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I swear man, some of you think the UNKNOWN is better than the proven commodity. How'd that work out for the Bulls...Brand is 10x the player that Chandler is. I'd much rather have Gasol at this point for 2 reasons, he's PROVEN and he's ready to produce NOW(as is Kevin). You draft a big that takes 3-4 years before they're ready to produce then you've wasted the past 3-4 years of Martin. Martin is ready to go NOW, you add a big like Gasol and have Artest on the team, that's the best 2-3-4 combo in the league. We'd obviously need to add the right PG and hopefully gather another big at some point. Gasol is probably up there IMO to Howard, Bosh and Dirk as the younger bigs under 30 that I'd want on my team now.

lets say IF it doesn't click. you know some teams look great on paper but don't work when meshed together. with that trade proposed, we're handcuffed to some major contracts. have you considered when gasol going to be up for another extension? how much of the cap is he eating now? when kevin and other players come up for extensions... how is our cap situation going to look then? i'm sorry but we're in a stinker of a cap situation w/ some good but not great players right now. unless we're getting a bonafied stud that can take over a game, i'd rather the kings play the lottery and look for a stud that way. these quick patches do nothing in terms of giving us different opportunities to build the team. look at chicago as an example, they got it all, good young talent, lotto picks, capspace(pulled in a ben wallce).. they are definitely UP AND COMING. they have lots of tradeable assets to pull in a potential HOF'r like garnett. just say no to the fast patches.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I'm not high on taking on all of those huge contracts and giving up our draft pick for Gasol. The team you listed is a 6th seed at best. And with no hope of making good trades to get better.

No on Gasol in general. We don't have the pieces to give for him and stay competetive.