SacBee: Kings Thomas Needs To Find Balance

[Glenn]

Why do people say that IT wouldn't accept being a 6th man; that he personally needs to be a starter? When did he get to make the choice? I personally haven't heard him say this but if he honestly thinks he has the choice of how he is used by the Kings, he is placing himself above the team. I want a player who puts team needs above his own. I would make a huge guess that Malone would like this also. Does anyone think he would be in the NBA if the Kings hadn't drafted him? He got an opportunity to play because he is on one of the worst teams in the NBA.

If not for the Kings, IT might actually be delivering pizzas.

 

[whozit]

We have to be careful and not put what he has said in an interview such as wanting to be like Iverson, being a starter, ext. and making it an absolute. He may see himself as such but at the same time be willing to do what it takes and if it shows up in wins, winning cures a lot.

Hope springs eternal and after yesterday, my hope in terms of the team needs some refreshing.

 

[LPKingsFan]

We have to be careful and not put what he has said in an interview such as wanting to be like Iverson, being a starter, ext. and making it an absolute. He may see himself as such but at the same time be willing to do what it takes and if it shows up in wins, winning cures a lot.

Hope springs eternal and after yesterday, my hope in terms of the team needs some refreshing.

You could also say wanting to be as good as AI =/= playing the same style as AI.

But, then again, the guy says he wants to be a leader and take ownership for his own mistakes and he still gets criticized for stepping on the toes of DMC and somehow Vivek.

I'm not even that big of a fan of IT! But some of the rhetoric has gone too far, IMO, so I find myself playing devils advocate.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Why do people say that IT wouldn't accept being a 6th man; that he personally needs to be a starter? When did he get to make the choice?

i think i remember him saying in a pre game interview with Grant earlier this season, when he was coming off the bench behind Vasquez, that he thought he should be starting

 

[whozit]

You could also say wanting to be as good as AI =/= playing the same style as AI.

But, then again, the guy says he wants to be a leader and take ownership for his own mistakes and he still gets criticized for stepping on the toes of DMC and somehow Vivek.

I'm not even that big of a fan of IT! But some of the rhetoric has gone too far, IMO, so I find myself playing devils advocate.

The rhetoric like in politics is largely from the extremes on both sides. And they both have grains of truth in them. Sort of like the old saying, 'he says, she says and the truth is somewhere in between.'

 

[peacelate]

i think i remember him saying in a pre game interview with Grant earlier this season, when he was coming off the bench behind Vasquez, that he thought he should be starting

I don't blame him if he thinks he should be starting over Vasquez.

Bring in another legit point guard and I feel he will accept a 6th man role.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

I don't blame him if he thinks he should be starting over Vasquez.

Bring in another legit point guard and I feel he will accept a 6th man role.

i hope you're right but his attitude really suggests otherwise. Also, he is probably going to demand more money than we can afford to pay a "6th man" and we wouldn't be able to pay a legit PG anyway

 

[kupman]

if i had to guess, i'd say you won't hear much in the way of rebuttal from kf.com's cadre of pizza guys, most of whom would rather ignore such information than address it in any reasonable or rational way...

I'll take the bait (although I don't consider myself a pizza guy).

IT has his hands on the ball much of the time because quite frankly he has zero help in the back court. If I were IT I would be hesitant to pass to BMac too. If there was another guard on the floor (or team for that matter) who could do basic things like dribble, shoot and pass IT would have his hands on the ball less frequently, imho. However, IT is the only decent player we have in the backcourt and it is not his fault.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

More chicken-and-egg equivocation: he "has" to dominate the ball, because his teammates are bad, therefore his teammates are bad, because he dominates the ball, therefore he has to dominate the ball, because...

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

i think i remember him saying in a pre game interview with Grant earlier this season, when he was coming off the bench behind Vasquez, that he thought he should be starting

His quote in that interview was something like, "yeah, a lot of people feel like I provide a spark off the bench. I feel like I can provide that spark right from the beginning of the game. I play the same regardless of what part of the game it is, or when I come in"

 

[whozit]

His quote in that interview was something like, "yeah, a lot of people feel like I provide a spark off the bench. I feel like I can provide that spark right from the beginning of the game. I play the same regardless of what part of the game it is, or when I come in"

That is even more damning that just saying 'I think I should be starting.' That shows a complete lack of situation awareness. That reinforces what we have seen at times at the end of games. Different situations demand different actions and attitudes.

 

[Hadlowe]

More chicken-and-egg equivocation: he "has" to dominate the ball, because his teammates are bad, therefore his teammates are bad, because he dominates the ball, therefore he has to dominate the ball, because...

Part of my criticism of Malone is that he is just not terribly imaginative on offense. With Cousins on the roster, I would love to run sets through him at the high post with lots of off-ball motion to get cuts to the rim and open attempts for the rest of the teammates.

Having IT on the roster makes it very easy for the coach to just put the ball in his hands and run simple PnR sets which either result in a contested layup, a long jumper or a kickout pass. It's easy to do, but not as effective.

We'll see how things go after the team gets a whole training camp together.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Part of my criticism of Malone is that he is just not terribly imaginative on offense. With Cousins on the roster, I would love to run sets through him at the high post with lots of off-ball motion to get cuts to the rim and open attempts for the rest of the teammates.

Having IT on the roster makes it very easy for the coach to just put the ball in his hands and run simple PnR sets which either result in a contested layup, a long jumper or a kickout pass. It's easy to do, but not as effective.

We'll see how things go after the team gets a whole training camp together.

Agreed. Another large issue with this seemingly basic system, is that appears it's 'boring' for several of the other players on the floor, who end up standing around just to space the floor. When your only assignment on a play is to "space the floor" by staying out of the way, it doesn't inspire any creative passionate play

Derrick Williams for example, thrives on ball movement and plays so much better in a high pass team involved offense. Among others, he's not the only one, but it really stands out for him

 

[Npliam]

Malone isn't a very good offensive coach.

 

[Entity]

bullsfans.com maybe?

 

[Npliam]

bullsfans.com maybe?

I see my Entity alarm is still working.

 

[LPKingsFan]

More chicken-and-egg equivocation: he "has" to dominate the ball, because his teammates are bad, therefore his teammates are bad, because he dominates the ball, therefore he has to dominate the ball, because...

I get that, but it's not like the SGs were any better with Vasquez running the show, were they?

Part of my criticism of Malone is that he is just not terribly imaginative on offense. With Cousins on the roster, I would love to run sets through him at the high post with lots of off-ball motion to get cuts to the rim and open attempts for the rest of the teammates.

Having IT on the roster makes it very easy for the coach to just put the ball in his hands and run simple PnR sets which either result in a contested layup, a long jumper or a kickout pass. It's easy to do, but not as effective.

We'll see how things go after the team gets a whole training camp together.

IT may make that tempting for Malone, but if Malone is worth anything as a coach he needs to be better at resisting.

Then again, they may be purposefully running a simplified offensive system simply because they knew there would be a lot of turnover and didn't want to make things too complicated with guys coming and going so often. These types of questions, though, are above my pay grade.

My hope is that the required moves are made this summer, and the team can have a full training camp together with a coherent plan to work with moving forward.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I get that, but it's not like the SGs were any better with Vasquez running the show, were they?

No they were not, because Thornton was cold game after game and Ben was about the same as he is now.

However, I did notice that Derrick Williams was more effective when he was starting with Vasquez in his first few games here. In that first game vs the Clippers, Vasquez was the one who looked for Derrick and setup the lob play that brought the house down. We have not seen that play attempted since. Why? Maybe no Vasquez type to make it happen?

 

[LPKingsFan]

No they were not, because Thornton was cold game after game and Ben was about the same as he is now.

However, I did notice the Derrick Williams was more effective when he was starting with Vasquez in his first few games here. In that first game vs the Clippers, Vasquez was the one who looked for Derrick and setup the lob play that brought the house down. We have not seen that play attempted since. Why? Maybe no Vasquez type to make it happen?

Definitely a good point about Williams. Maybe that's why the FO was looking for more of a pass-first, Andre Miller type for the bench. Run IT/Gay/Cousins with roleplayers at SG/PF to start, and run the athletes in Ben and D-Will off the bench with a pass-first PG to set them up.