Roster Construction
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
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sactowndog
All-Star
Yep most National media and analysts were more opposed to the direction the Kings choose to take. Most of them felt you trade Barnes for picks, trade Holmes for picks, tank further from your spot and hope you get a top 3-5 pick.
It’s still a legitimate question what this team could be. Combining players from a bottom 7 Indiana, Detroit and Sacramento team doesn’t guarantee success. The team also has a real weakness with shooting as many of these players are also poor catch and shoot 3 point shooters and poor free throw shooters.
the only two players you can say can shoot well with any confidence are Barnes and Holiday. Indiana and Detroit were 25th and 29th in 3 point shooting for a reason.
we really need Metu to continue to grow as a C&S 3 point shooter.
It’s still a legitimate question what this team could be. Combining players from a bottom 7 Indiana, Detroit and Sacramento team doesn’t guarantee success. The team also has a real weakness with shooting as many of these players are also poor catch and shoot 3 point shooters and poor free throw shooters.
the only two players you can say can shoot well with any confidence are Barnes and Holiday. Indiana and Detroit were 25th and 29th in 3 point shooting for a reason.
we really need Metu to continue to grow as a C&S 3 point shooter.
I'm 100% happy with the deal. Never would have thought in a million years we could have gotten DDV and Lyles for Bagley.
I'm just saying there is a chance that DDV is never DDV again. It happens to some players. Happened to Gay and Cousins. I know the injury is different but there is a chance that this is the new norm for DDV, even if he's not an elite athlete. Hopefully people don't knock McNair for this if he doesn't pan out because it's a risk the team needed to take.
sactowndog
All-Star
So what is your guess as to the starters?
I’m going with
Sabonis - duh
Metu - gives some rim protection and lob threat
Barnes - Best outside shooter
Holiday - second best outside shooter
Fox - duh
Mitchell
DDV - some chance but think need scoring
Holmes - good pairing with Holmes
Lyles - can stretch floor but not defend. Not sure you can pair with Sabonis
I’m going with
Sabonis - duh
Metu - gives some rim protection and lob threat
Barnes - Best outside shooter
Holiday - second best outside shooter
Fox - duh
Mitchell
DDV - some chance but think need scoring
Holmes - good pairing with Holmes
Lyles - can stretch floor but not defend. Not sure you can pair with Sabonis
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yeah. I think you’re probably on the money with that starting lineup at least until Moe gets healthy. Then I could see Gentry sliding Barnes to the 4 and starting Moe at 3.
kb02
All-Star
After five games: Fox, Holiday, Barnes, Lyles, Sabonis.
Bench: Mitchell, DDV, Holmes, Lamb, Mo, Metu.
I really liked Lyles when he was with Denver. If he can play near that level, I think he’s the stretch 4.
My guess once Harkless is healthy;
Fox/Mitchell
Holiday/Donte D
Harkless/Metu [who starts could go either way]
Barnes/Lamb
Sabonis/Holmes/Jones
These are also the guys I think really deserve minutes - spot minutes for Damian - which still leaves Davis, Len, and Lyles as rotation-worthy players for whom the minutes just aren't there.
VERY deep team.
Fox/Mitchell
Holiday/Donte D
Harkless/Metu [who starts could go either way]
Barnes/Lamb
Sabonis/Holmes/Jones
These are also the guys I think really deserve minutes - spot minutes for Damian - which still leaves Davis, Len, and Lyles as rotation-worthy players for whom the minutes just aren't there.
VERY deep team.
The issue with Metu is he quite literally has been the worst 3pt shooter in the NBA with any sense of volume. It doesn't make a ton of sense as the shot form does look good and he pulls it with confidence, but just hasn't been going in. And lately, he's gotten afraid to pull a jumper at all to the detriment of passing up what should be an open shot. It's frustrating because I think he'd be a clear starting caliber/option next Sabonis if we could rely on the spacing as the defense, rebounding and obviously his cutting/lob threat ability should play extremely well next to him.
I'd be more than fine just continuing to see if he can gain confidence and putting him out there until DDV is ready to start again. He's 24 and he's shown tremendous growth this season in basically every facet outside his shooting. There's a real chance we found the "spike" player for nothing with him.
My guess for what actually happens though is that we go back to Harkless/Barnes 3/4 combo that's been pretty successful this year with Holiday at the 2. Puts 2 good long defenders next to your 3 offensive weapons and should build a nice offfensive hierarchy with the starters. Leaves your bench with truly unlimited firepower/defense (Davion, DDV, Lamb, Holmes) with Metu/Lyles fighting it out for 10th man minutes.
kb02
All-Star
Yea, if only he had a consistent three, because Metu provides the most rim protection of the potential 4s that are currently on the roster.
sactowndog
All-Star
yeah and a lob threat. I think Metu stays on the floor with the hope he grows into his 3 point shooting. It’s not like anyone else is a great 3 point shooter and Metu you hope can grow with the team.
If only we could Frankenstein all the pieces together, we'd have the perfect 5th starter between Harkless/Metu/Lyles. Metu rim protection/athleticism, Harkless defensive versatility, Lyles shooting/offensive IQ.
twslam07
All-Star
If we really want to win now, I don't think you can play Sabonis and Holmes at the same time, and Sabonis is obviously the much superior player.
PG - Fox (18 min) / Mitchell (30 min)
SG - DiVincenzo (30 min) / Fox (18 min)
SF - Holiday (30 min) / Barnes (18 min)
PF - Barnes (16 min) / Harkless (16 min) / Lyles (16 min)
C - Sabonis (34 min) / Holmes (14 min)
Fox = 36 min
Barnes = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Mitchell = 30 min
DiVincenzo = 30 min
Holiday = 30 min
Harkless = 16 min
Lyles = 16 min
Holmes = 14 min
It'd be a bummer though as this would really tank Holmes value for when we look to move him in the offseason. Really hope we're going to be able to find a good return on him.
PG - Fox (18 min) / Mitchell (30 min)
SG - DiVincenzo (30 min) / Fox (18 min)
SF - Holiday (30 min) / Barnes (18 min)
PF - Barnes (16 min) / Harkless (16 min) / Lyles (16 min)
C - Sabonis (34 min) / Holmes (14 min)
Fox = 36 min
Barnes = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Mitchell = 30 min
DiVincenzo = 30 min
Holiday = 30 min
Harkless = 16 min
Lyles = 16 min
Holmes = 14 min
It'd be a bummer though as this would really tank Holmes value for when we look to move him in the offseason. Really hope we're going to be able to find a good return on him.
I like the idea of giving Lyles some burn.He looked ok last night
D would be really suspect with Lyles starting but to be fair it is anyway so i would like to see how Kings look on offense with that unit.Lyles is a willing passer and has a high IQ when it comes to offense.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He doesn't have the explosive ability that Metu has, but he's clearly more skilled and consistent.
serbiangoat
Starter
Just give Lyles a crack as the starting PF to see if that type of player works with Sabonis or have Barnes/Lamb/Holiday/Fox and see how that goes. Metu's IQ is some of the lowest in the history of the NBA it's literally why he's not a serious player with his explosiveness and size and decent skills. I know Harkless had one good game but I'm over seeing him starting.
twslam07
All-Star
At the end of the day, we don't really have the right defensive players on this team to see if a viable defense around Fox/Sabonis is even possible (e.g., need solid defenders at 2-4 with rim protection from the 3/4), but we can experiment with what a Fox/Sabonis offense could look like when surrounded by shooters by playing Fox, Sabonis, and a combination of Barnes, Holiday, Lamb, Lyles, Mitchell, & DiVincenzo to fill the other 3 spots.
In fact, we've played those types of lineup 44 minutes so far this season and they have posted...
In fact, we've played those types of lineup 44 minutes so far this season and they have posted...
- 119.9 Off Rtg (UTA is best in the league at 115.9)
- 98.2 Def Rtg (GSW is best in the league at 104.6)
- +21.7 Net Rtg (PHX is best in the league at +8.1)
Small numbers (and super small numbers from Lyles, who has only played 4 minutes as a King) but quite impressive if they hold up anywhere near that in the long run. And it would argue that perhaps these sorts of guy ARE the "right" sort of defenders for the scheme after all. Holiday, Mitchell, and Divincenzo have been guys who in their careers are known as solid defenders and have made the majority of their WS contributions on the defensive end, and maybe that's good enough. Barnes not so much, Lamb kind of neutral, but the point is, if you take the offense of Fox and Sabonis, throw in three guys who can spread the floor, maybe one of whom is also a primary scoring threat (Barnes), and play these guys in motion, you're going to have good results, especially when you can run the offense through your center because he's such a good passer. Then, over on the defensive end, you've got just enough perimeter defense to make it hard on the opponent and watch them struggle to score.
Again, the numbers have to hold up, but if you can run out 30 minutes worth of lineups that are going to put up +21.7 Net, you're going to win a lot of games. A lot. And if you're doing it with a defensive rating that good, you don't need to get better defensively at the expense of offense. It's the Net that drives the wins, but you want to do it with some offense, because as most of us are old enough to remember, "chicks dig the long ball".
Yeah, I'm gonna be real curious on quite few different lineup combinations by the end of the season:
Fox-Mitchell-DDV-Barnes-Sabonis
Fox-Holiday-Harkless-Barnes-Sabonis
Fox-DDV-Holiday-Barnes-Sabonis
Basically every iteration of the guards/wings/Lyles/Metu with the 3 main offensive core pieces. Maybe pretty telling too that Gentry hasn't been properly utilized the new roster if we've only had 44 total minutes in 4 games with the right archetypes around Fox/Sabonis.
This pretty much sums it up.The Off Rtg will have to be in a top 5 for Kings to be a solid(5-6 seed) playoff team next year.
That is fantastic if we have two of the fabled 3 & D guys at the 3/4 spots.
And DDV I think is going to be very real for us too. Is my Arizona bias creeping in if I like Benn Mathurin if he doesn't jump too high up? Move Holmes for an upgrade on Harkless because I think we need an immediate starter upgrade at that position rather than a draft pick and I really like this rotation with the right coach.
EIM86
Starter
im ginna have to guess the “hand injury” was to rest Off-Night for the final stretch for the Vivek final push for 10
kb02
All-Star
Right now there are three NBA level or better players at the 1, 3 (Barnes), and 5 spot. Holiday should be a bench wing and the four spot is obviously up for grabs. Since Barnes can swing between the 3 and 4, that gives the Kings lots of leeway this off season to take BPA in the draft and to go after an FA or player via trade.
My early wish list for this year's draft: Jaime Jacquez, Johnny Juzang, or Mathew Mayer in the second round. They're my Ayo Donsumu, Jared Butler, and Herb Jones picks for dudes who will be drafted late, but will outplay the majority of the guys who went ahead of them.
My early wish list for this year's draft: Jaime Jacquez, Johnny Juzang, or Mathew Mayer in the second round. They're my Ayo Donsumu, Jared Butler, and Herb Jones picks for dudes who will be drafted late, but will outplay the majority of the guys who went ahead of them.
ockingsfan
Starter
The Kings need to get lucky in the lottery and get a top 3 pick and get that 3rd star to really compete as a deep playoff contending team. You have Fox and Sabonis as legit star level players at their positions, and then a bunch of role players. Barnes is a high level role player, but a role player none the less. We are not going to be a legit playoff contending team with Barnes as our 3rd best player, Barnes could be the 4th or 5th best player on a contending team, but not the 3rd best player.
The Kings need to either get lucky in the lottery or somehow trade our lottery pick (plus more) for that 3rd star this summer. I'm hoping the NBA lottery balls are finally kind to the Kings and we land a top 3 pick this year. We all know the Kings fans deserve it!!!
The Kings need to either get lucky in the lottery or somehow trade our lottery pick (plus more) for that 3rd star this summer. I'm hoping the NBA lottery balls are finally kind to the Kings and we land a top 3 pick this year. We all know the Kings fans deserve it!!!
Jabari Smith Jr would be a really nice fit with Fox & Sabonis. I don't know if he'll be a star, but he should be a very high level role player at the very least.
Holmgren also looks like an elite roleplayer rather than a star.
Banchero and Ivey look to have the clearest path to being NBA stars but neither is a great fit with De'Aaron and Domantas.
steelevt
All-Star
So kings move up to 3 in the draft and smith and holmgren go 1/2 cuz you know…kangz.
edit: what am I saying, we all know kings will get 1 spot after the big drop off in talent if we move up so probably 5/6 spot if we move up at all.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
This isn’t really the best draft class for grabbing a star in the top three though. Jabari is going to be really freaking good but I don’t know if he’ll ever be what you’d consider a star. Paolo and Chet are both incredibly intriguing but flawed prospects.
Guys like Ivey and Davis both stand as the prospects with the most “star traits” (on-ball creation, elite scoring at at least one of three levels on the court) of the top six or so picks but picking either would probably put us back in the position we were just in (too many guards to function properly) and I’m not sure either would be particularly effective playing off Sabonis and Fox and I’m not sure I’d rate either guy above Davion in terms of overall potential.
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