Rondo Trade Idea...

[pkballr]

A humongous swing for the fences. Could be borderline insane. So, how about we try this trade...

Kings Incoming:
Allen, Rondo, (future 1st?)

Boston Incoming:
Martin, Udrih, Nocioni, 23rd (or 4th)

Why Kings do this:
Get that solid PG we always needed, and a hard nosed one at that. Plus, both are 2010 expiring, thus shedding our three longest contracts (not including Garcia). Also, rids of three older players while shoring up our young guy movement (Rondo is only 23). Also, Greene moves up into a more prominent role, and essentially shores us up for the 2010 sweepstakes again. (One thing too, we would make up for the Douby mistake.)

Why the Kings don't:
Obviously, losing Kevin Martin would kill off any fan base that was left. No matter how much we like or dislike him, he is our franchise player. If we trade him, one is expected in return. As good as Rondo has been, he isn't a franchise player. Also, does not guarantee any FAs would come here in 2010, and all this can be a moot point. Plus, we'd be sacrificing a lot for a little. This is a complete rebuild.

Why the Celtics do this:
Supposedly the Celtics are searching for a younger replacement for Ray Allen. What better replacement then a young stud like Kevin Martin. Also, there's been rumors that Rondo has been making players around him unhappy with his moodiness. Ridding themselves of these two supposed cancers while filling the hole of a SG would help them. Plus, there was also supposed interest in Nocioni, adding him would definitely shore up their bench. Also puts them back into this draft in the 1st round (with a chance of a top 4 player perhaps)

Why the Celtics don't do this:
It's a lot of talent to sacrifice in order to get a little younger in the SG department. Also, they're taking all of Sacramento's bad contracts in the process. If it wasn't win now before, it'll be win now mode for them this upcoming season.

Projected lineup:
Kings:
PG - Rondo
SG - Allen
SF - Garcia
PF - Thompson
C - Hawes

Celtics:
PG - Udrih
SG - Martin
SF - Pierce
PF - Garnett
C - Perkins

I know this trade is borderline ridiculous, and it's definitely swing for the fences, but I wouldn't mind sacrificing Martin to rid ourselves of Beno and Noc. I know this is all based off of one very small rumor, so this could mean absolutely nothing, but I'd thought I would help find our way into this equation. Boston owes us! Plus 2010 season (barring any stupid signings), we would have Hawes, Garcia, Thompson, (and Greene) on our salary. That's not a bad core to work around. That totals to be about $11 million in salary, essentially giving us the chance to sign two home run FA's (assuming they'd be willing to come). I know many of you will have a field day with this one, (especially about sacrificing our top pick and Boston eating all of our bad contracts), but I like the idea of tons of salary, plus a young front court to work with. Also, I think Boston might be sacrificing their strong starters, but they get younger and shore up their bench.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I like Rondo, but this is insane.

 

[VF21]

There is no reason on earth the Celtics would do this deal. None. And if they did, the Boston fans would rise up and throw them all into the harbor...which they would be perfectly justified in so doing.

 

[asakkings]

Yea is this referring to ray allen or tony allen. I haven't heard of ray allen being a cancer.

 

[TheRaven]

Petrie had his shot at Rondo, and passed on him for an undersized chucker. He is still quite young and very important to the Celtics right now, they aren't giving him up.

 

[kingsnation]

A humongous swing for the fences. Could be borderline insane. So, how about we try this trade...

Kings Incoming:
Allen, Rondo, (future 1st?)

Boston Incoming:
Martin, Udrih, Nocioni, 23rd (or 4th)

Why Kings do this:
Get that solid PG we always needed, and a hard nosed one at that. Plus, both are 2010 expiring, thus shedding our three longest contracts (not including Garcia). Also, rids of three older players while shoring up our young guy movement (Rondo is only 23). Also, Greene moves up into a more prominent role, and essentially shores us up for the 2010 sweepstakes again. (One thing too, we would make up for the Douby mistake.)

Why the Kings don't:
Obviously, losing Kevin Martin would kill off any fan base that was left. No matter how much we like or dislike him, he is our franchise player. If we trade him, one is expected in return. As good as Rondo has been, he isn't a franchise player. Also, does not guarantee any FAs would come here in 2010, and all this can be a moot point. Plus, we'd be sacrificing a lot for a little. This is a complete rebuild.

Why the Celtics do this:
Supposedly the Celtics are searching for a younger replacement for Ray Allen. What better replacement then a young stud like Kevin Martin. Also, there's been rumors that Rondo has been making players around him unhappy with his moodiness. Ridding themselves of these two supposed cancers while filling the hole of a SG would help them. Plus, there was also supposed interest in Nocioni, adding him would definitely shore up their bench. Also puts them back into this draft in the 1st round (with a chance of a top 4 player perhaps)

Why the Celtics don't do this:
It's a lot of talent to sacrifice in order to get a little younger in the SG department. Also, they're taking all of Sacramento's bad contracts in the process. If it wasn't win now before, it'll be win now mode for them this upcoming season.

Projected lineup:
Kings:
PG - Rondo
SG - Allen
SF - Garcia
PF - Thompson
C - Hawes

Celtics:
PG - Udrih
SG - Martin
SF - Pierce
PF - Garnett
C - Perkins

I know this trade is borderline ridiculous, and it's definitely swing for the fences, but I wouldn't mind sacrificing Martin to rid ourselves of Beno and Noc. I know this is all based off of one very small rumor, so this could mean absolutely nothing, but I'd thought I would help find our way into this equation. Boston owes us! Plus 2010 season (barring any stupid signings), we would have Hawes, Garcia, Thompson, (and Greene) on our salary. That's not a bad core to work around. That totals to be about $11 million in salary, essentially giving us the chance to sign two home run FA's (assuming they'd be willing to come). I know many of you will have a field day with this one, (especially about sacrificing our top pick and Boston eating all of our bad contracts), but I like the idea of tons of salary, plus a young front court to work with. Also, I think Boston might be sacrificing their strong starters, but they get younger and shore up their bench.

Thanks for the best laugh I've had in a while.

 

[Bricklayer]

Even so it is borderline impossible for me to see the Celtics giving up Rajon Rondo. Their entire championship starting backcourt? Of course I have not heard the moodiness rumors or whatnot, but still.

As an aside, yeah giving up Kevin without getting back another star would be risky, but I might actually consider this if we weren't throwing in our picks. Maybe. Rajon Rondo is absolutely 100% a guy you can, and in fact have, won a title with. His numbers in the palyoffs this year? 16.9pts 9.8rebs 9.7ast 2.5stl. Yes, that's right, he almost averaged a triple double over 14 games. And yeah, there were a lot of OTs there, but he still only averaged 41 minutes. In any case, if you do this you have to keep that #4 and take Harden there, or maybe Thabeet if he slips. You can also resign McCants to get back some of the offense. Allen would be ashort timer.

In any case, it looks nutty at first glance, and I have a real real hard time imaging the Celtics getting rid of their top young player. But once you scratch the surface, hey, we talk about adding perimeter defense? Rondo could be your captain for years. He's got championship experience. He's young. You need somebody, either that draft pick or Spencer/JT to step it up offensively. But you could form up the core of a young team that can really compete there.

This would be a real blow to those guys though -- almsot back to "welcome to hell" days after being cast out of valhalla for the worst team in the league.

 

[vikinginferno]

The scary thing is I actually think he meant Ray Allen...

 

[Bricklayer]

The scary thing is I actually think he meant Ray Allen...

Yeah, I edited my post after I figured that out.

Its less wacky then it appears on first glance for us. But jsut so hard to see from Boston's perspective. Unless there really are some major major chemistry problems up there. I would have placed Rondo as one of the most untouchable pieces in the league.

 

[Aenadin]

i dont want that thug around wearing the kings uni.. i know he is good but no way after the chicago series... no

id rather take our chances with the draft

 

[VF21]

Bricklayer - No, it's really really wacky. You can dress up it all you like with rationale, etc. but the bottom line remains the same. Those chemistry issues? I sure haven't seen anything about them.

 

[kingsnation]

Their giving up their entire starting championship backcourt for our 17-65 starting backcourt.

End of story.

 

[Bricklayer]

Their giving up their entire starting championship backcourt for our 17-65 starting backcourt.

End of story.

Pretty much...again unless there really is a problem there.

Given Allen's age, the deal really boils down to a Martin for Rondo swap for them, with a Nocioni thrown in on the side. I would never have proposed such a thing myself, but if for a moment you imagine that there actually is a problem with Rondo for them, its not a bad return.

And for us it basically works this way:

Rondo in, Martin out
at trade deadline you trade Allen to a contender for pieces/picks. Young core = Rondo, Thompson, Hawes, + 2009 picks, 2010 picks.


Its hard to imagine. But there is a certain logical rationale if you assume certain things (Rondo is out of favor in Boston, Allen's age is a huge concern and they want to keep the window open).

 

[VF21]

I continue to ask... WHAT proof is there that Rondo is out of favor in Boston?????? And, even if that was true, I can imagine them getting better than what we can give. Rondo impressed a lot of people in the playoffs. That's pretty much a consistent comment on several of the boards I visit on occasion.

 

[Bricklayer]

I continue to ask... WHAT proof is there that Rondo is out of favor in Boston?????? And, even if that was true, I can imagine them getting better than what we can give. Rondo impressed a lot of people in the playoffs. That's pretty much a consistent comment on several of the boards I visit on occasion.

No proof, but a rumor was asserted and I am just saying IF it were true then getting back a Kevin Martin level young talent would be about right for Boston. After you get by the first hurdle the proposal holds together better than you would expect. And of course Boston would still have:

 

[VF21]

A rumor was asserted?

So if I assert that Lebron James' refusal to talk to the media right after being eliminated from the playoffs caused huge dissention in the ranks in the Cavaliers lockroom, could we start positing a Lebron James to the Kings for Kenny Thomas scemario?

 

[TheRaven]

Pretty much...again unless there really is a problem there.

Given Allen's age, the deal really boils down to a Martin for Rondo swap for them, with a Nocioni thrown in on the side. I would never have proposed such a thing myself, but if for a moment you imagine that there actually is a problem with Rondo for them, its not a bad return.

No, it really isn't a good return compared to what they could probably get from other teams. Athletic PGs who can pass and defend are at a premium, even ones with a very streaky shot. It is about as valuable as you can get without being a dominant bigman. To add on to all of that, he is extremely young still.

Martin is a good player, and Nocioni is a decent guy. In addition to that, the proposed deal had them take on the long-term deal of Udrih. That doesn't even begin to touch the value of Rondo IMO. If that was the best offer they could get for him, they would be better off keeping him...whether the thinly-documented rumor is true or not.

 

[Bricklayer]

No, it really isn't a good return compared to what they could probably get from other teams. Good PGs who can pass and defend are at a premium, even ones with a very streaky shot. It is about as valuable as you can get without being a dominant bigman.

Martin is a good player, and Nocioni is a decent guy. They don't even begin to touch the value of Rondo though, IMO. If that was the best offer they could get for him, they would be better off keeping him, whether the thinly-documented rumor is true or not.

What exactly would you expect other teams to offer for Rondo? Bosh? Amare?

Rondo is a special little player, but nobody is going to offer you a perennial All Star for a guy who averages 12ppg. If they had to move him, a colossal if of course, they really wouldn't be getting too many better offers than a youngish 24ppg scorer. Doesn't mean they would necessarily take the offer, just means that whoever they got would be somewhere in that range.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

No way Boston does this. No way. I could really dig deep into the trade, but I wont ..

I would rather have Rondo than Kmart, and on top of that were unloading contracts ..

 

[hrdboild]

Please. Rondo is as entrenched in Boston now as Jeter is in New York. Who's going to lead that team when KG, Pierce, and Allen all retire? Kevin Martin? If you want to get a player like Rondo, you have to do it before they damn near average a triple double in the playoffs. No chance now.

 

[beb0p]

I continue to ask... WHAT proof is there that Rondo is out of favor in Boston?????? And, even if that was true, I can imagine them getting better than what we can give. Rondo impressed a lot of people in the playoffs. That's pretty much a consistent comment on several of the boards I visit on occasion.

I think the OP is referring to an article in Hoopsworld.

"He's stubborn," Ainge told ESPN's Jackie MacMullen. "He doesn't always take direction well. He's very bright and knows what he needs to do to be successful. But sometimes he doesn't understand what the team needs to be successful."
Doc Rivers expressed similar sentiments, which he directed at Rondo himself earlier this season.
"Do you know your teammates hate playing with you? ... The point guard has to be the guy that brings energy to the team. You can't be the guy that sucks it away. Your moodiness is affecting us. Change it."


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=12861

However, I have a hard time picturing a trade of Rondo + Ray Allen for Kmart + change.

On paper it make look good for the Celts by getting rid of an aging vet and young but imperfect PG for a young 20+ point scorer. But in games, Kmart's lack of defense will kill Boston. And it'll be tough to replace Rondo. So I don't see this trade happening.

 

[kingsnation]

Agreed, they will turn into the 09 version of our team, except with KG and Pierce. Meaning at best they would be a first round exit every year.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Hoopsworld = the New York Post of basketball blogs.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I agree that Rondo appears to be moody--he's not the most vocal guy or motivator around--and he might have a superiority complex. That being said, though, there's no denying that he's getting it done--he proved it last year against the Lakers, shredding their defense to smithereens and he's only improved this year--how many point guards that are 6'1", no less, can actually average a triple double? His athleticism and elite all-around skillset are traits that few point guards share, and offensively I don't think he's the liability some make him out to be when the guy is so good at probing, firing unexpected passes and using that threat and his jets to get to the basket very effectively. And he's only 22 and has tons of room to grow. The moodiness is just a minor concern--he's not impeding the team based on the way he's playing, and he sort of signifies the mental and physical toughness that the Celts have; as a matter of fact, he should be their future given how old their other stars are. And that superiority complex might just be that part of his personality that motivates him to improve better, so it's entirely a bad thing--he's not selfish at all. I think Rondo does have ton of trade value sheerly because of his high upward trajectory and his amazing current production, but he's not worth giving up by any means. At all.

 

[rainmaker]

No way boston does this with a healthy KG returning next yr. Despite the rumors out of boston, I don't see them trading rondo, maybe allen, but not rondo. Long after Kg, Allen, and Pierce retire, Rondo will still be running the show. He's a borderline allstar right now at age 22, and he can't even shoot a jumper yet. I see the celtics building around rondo after a couple more runs at the champoinship before KG retires.

 

[FakeInjury]

Rondo is a really chill 4th option, why trade our first 2nd and third option for a 4th?

 

[VF21]

I think the OP is referring to an article in Hoopsworld.



However, I have a hard time picturing a trade of Rondo + Ray Allen for Kmart + change.

On paper it make look good for the Celts by getting rid of an aging vet and young but imperfect PG for a young 20+ point scorer. But in games, Kmart's lack of defense will kill Boston. And it'll be tough to replace Rondo. So I don't see this trade happening.

Thanks.

You know what's important about that whole thing? The link back to the article at ESPN... and the article pretty much negates the ridiculous assertions being made in the Hoopsworld "article."

"What they came to realize," said Celtics general manager Danny Ainge recently, "is they need him every bit as much as he needs them."

And...

"He earned our trust," Pierce confirmed. "When you think about it, [his job] is probably a little intimidating. I can't imagine being a second- or third-year player and trying to divvy up the ball between three All-Stars."

I reiterate: Rajon Rondo is NOT out of favor in Boston and he's not going anywhere, especially not for a trade like what the OP proposed.

 

[The_Q]

I'm a Celtics fan

..... and we are not trading Rondo under any circumstances. I came here to apologize for all the Trade Toine scenarios of 10 years ago when we were in the beggars position.


BTW, do not hire Rick Pitino for your next head coach. Sound advice from the Q.

 

[VF21]

Thanks, The Q, for the input. Welcome to KF... Feel free to give us insight from the other side of the NBA on occasion!

 

[kingsnation]

..... and we are not trading Rondo under any circumstances. I came here to apologize for all the Trade Toine scenarios of 10 years ago when we were in the beggars position.


BTW, do not hire Rick Pitino for your next head coach. Sound advice from the Q.

Haha, thanks for the wisdom.