Rondo a darkhorse for Kings???

[Sac.1989]

id take a gamble on rondo. We must get to the playoffs next season and he brings defense and pushes us towards a system more built to our strengths as opposed to 'pace' and our PG play becomes a real advantage with Rondo, DC and Miller.

its a deal that suits both parties and gets us to where we need to be - he wont flame out, he has too much to lose. The legit definition of playing for a contract payday.

 

[Livinthedream]

This off-season? Rondo. Not because I don't like Wesley Matthews -- mainly because Achilles injuries are not to be underestimated. I would hesitate to commit any substantial amount of money on Wesley Matthews this off-season because there's really no guarantee he'll ever be the same player again. And even if he does eventually make a full recovery, he's unlikely to return to his pre-injury level of performance in year 1 or even year 2 of recovery. McLemore might be a better option given the circumstances.

Hope people are paying attention. Everyone's productivity dips. What he gave last year and year before won't be what he gives in the future. No matter how hard he tries.

 

[Sac.Kings]

It all depends on what Rondo would accept. A small contract and you have me thinking. However, a big problem is his toxic personality. Is this the type of guy we want to put with our star player? Especially one that has had to put up with a huge amount of negativity and general crap to begin with? My answer still leans towards no, and Rondo really has no one to blame, but himself. 5 years ago, there were only a handful of players in the league I wouldn't trade for him, now I don't even want him on small contract for 1 year. Pass.

 

[sdballer]

id take a gamble on rondo. We must get to the playoffs next season and he brings defense and pushes us towards a system more built to our strengths as opposed to 'pace' and our PG play becomes a real advantage with Rondo, DC and Miller.

its a deal that suits both parties and gets us to where we need to be - he wont flame out, he has too much to lose. The legit definition of playing for a contract payday.

I'm not even sure his defense is better than dc anymore.

 

[rhythmless]

Is the math that the OP did in this thread wrong? Or do you think the Kings could sign both for under $14 million?

http://kingsfans.com/threads/which-big-name-free-agent-to-target.60439/

The person I responded to said we "MIGHT" be able to get Rondo OR Matthews with our cap. So they said Rondo or Matthews was a maybe if we offered either of them $14M. I think that's ludicrous. We DEFINITELY sign one of them if we offer one $14M a year.

Then, I said that with a stretch on Landry (stretch provision on his contract), we can probably get both. With a stretch on Landry, we would clear an additional $4M on this year's books. That's $18M. I think that's definitely enough to sign a PG that no one wants anymore and a SG coming off achilles surgery. I definitely wouldn't spend that money on these two, but I think that's enough to get it done.

 

[sdballer]

The person I responded to said we "MIGHT" be able to get Rondo OR Matthews with our cap. So they said Rondo or Matthews was a maybe if we offered either of them $14M. I think that's ludicrous. We DEFINITELY sign one of them if we offer one $14M a year.

Then, I said that with a stretch on Landry (stretch provision on his contract), we can probably get both. With a stretch on Landry, we would clear an additional $4M on this year's books. That's $18M. I think that's definitely enough to sign a PG that no one wants anymore and a SG coming off achilles surgery. I definitely wouldn't spend that money on these two, but I think that's enough to get it done.

But we don't have 14 to offer even one of them

 

[rhythmless]

didn't someone say we had 14?

 

[sdballer]

didn't someone say we had 14?

We can get to 13+ if we stretch Landry.

 

[KingsCitizen]

For the folks that are scared of adding Rondo due to character issue, don't forget that Karl was behind the Sonics team that featured a stubborn Point Guard and a high skilled big man with character issue as well.
Cuz and Rondo's character concerns are in my opinion would not be as crazy as the Payton-Kemp duo.

Take a look at this happy picture of the good-old Karl controlled Super Sonics.
And hey that other guy on the right looks just like Rudy, so maybe we will be drafting Porzingis to complete this mural of Rondo, Cuz, Karl, and Rudy.

 

[sdballer]

For the folks that are scared of adding Rondo due to character issue, don't forget that Karl was behind the Sonics team that featured a stubborn Point Guard and a high skilled big man with character issue as well.
Cuz and Rondo's character concerns are in my opinion would not be as crazy as the Payton-Kemp duo.

Take a look at this happy picture of the good-old Karl controlled Super Sonics.
And hey that other guy on the right looks just like Rudy, so maybe we will be drafting Porzingis to complete this mural of Rondo, Cuz, Karl, and Rudy.

My issue isn't if he's an a hole it's the severely declining skills that accompany the a hole.

 

[KingMilz]

I would take a short term Rondo deal over Lawson. But I'm worried how DC handles it, if he is back on the bench. I guess he came to SAC to be the starting PG once again and prove he can fill this role. He overachieved and stated publicy, that he would like to keep the core of Rudy, DMC and himself intact only to be pulled out of the starting 5 for next season? That would be some bitter pill to swallow I would guess.

He would still play 30 mins + a game as the off guard/back up PG.

 

[KingsCitizen]

My issue isn't if he's an a hole it's the severely declining skills that accompany the a hole.

In my opinion, Dallas was just a bad fit for Rondo.
Here's why?
- He's part with an undersized SG (Monta) that dribbles a lot, negates Rondo's style of roaming around near the basket until floater is ready or a spot up shooter is free.
- Dirk and Parson are more of pick and pop guys which makes any rotation with Rondo more predictable to guard.
- Too much veterans in Dallas who wants their opinion heard, not a comfy place for sulky player.

Why I think he'll still work for the Kings?
- Our SG (Ben) should be the last guy you want on this team to dribble around. Ben works best at fast breaks and spot-up shooting. This takes Rondo back to full-time floor general.
- Rudy is Rondo's buddy, he'll help the guy get heard in locker room or help him take the shot on him lightly.
- We got the best big man in the league to set mean screen for him in and out and that guy works inside out compared to Dirk/Chandler/Parson combo.
- We got young guys in this team who will listen to him. Sulky guys don't talk much but they always feel better that when they talk, folks listen.
- We got Karl at the help, veteran coach (with due respect to Carlisle), and a player coach.

 

[jcwkings]

I would only say yes if Cousins, Gay, Karl approve and you could get Wes Matthews as well, possibly in a sign and trade.

 

[Gilles]

In my opinion, Dallas was just a bad fit for Rondo.
Here's why?
- He's part with an undersized SG (Monta) that dribbles a lot, negates Rondo's style of roaming around near the basket until floater is ready or a spot up shooter is free.
- Dirk and Parson are more of pick and pop guys which makes any rotation with Rondo more predictable to guard.
- Too much veterans in Dallas who wants their opinion heard, not a comfy place for sulky player.

Why I think he'll still work for the Kings?
- Our SG (Ben) should be the last guy you want on this team to dribble around. Ben works best at fast breaks and spot-up shooting. This takes Rondo back to full-time floor general.
- Rudy is Rondo's buddy, he'll help the guy get heard in locker room or help him take the shot on him lightly.
- We got the best big man in the league to set mean screen for him in and out and that guy works inside out compared to Dirk/Chandler/Parson combo.
- We got young guys in this team who will listen to him. Sulky guys don't talk much but they always feel better that when they talk, folks listen.
- We got Karl at the help, veteran coach (with due respect to Carlisle), and a player coach.

The fact, that Dallas had no one playing inside, plus excellent roll man were the reasons everyone was lauding the trade at the time - it looked like it must work. Screens don't work for Rondo, because everyone takes a step back (and often 2 or 3) and dares Rondo to shoot. Rubio has the same problem, but until this season he had Love: most used play in Minny was a dribble hand-off from Love to Rubio, that was immediately followed by a re-screen by Rubio for Love, if Rubio's man gave him a lot of space, and Love got a pretty open 3 out of that play every time. Want Rondo to work? You almost have to draft Kaminski for him. Boogie and Rudy will become a very good role players in that scenario though.

In theory you can move the action to PG-SF, but I'm not sure Rudy is that kind of shooter. And Boogie is still massively underused.

Rondo hasn't shown, that he can be successful on a team with other guys, who like to hold onto the ball. In Boston you can maybe name Pierce, and even that's a stretch. Dallas had Dirk, Monta and Parsons, but they all are mildly dominant as everyone is capable of moving off the ball. Problem was Rondo tipped the balance massively and all of sudden, 1 ball was absolutely not enough. They put Devin Harris instead of him, and suddenly their offense got back to being very efficient. In the end it was their defense, Dirk's in particular, that killed them.
Kings have two very dominant players in Boogie and Rudy. Can they change? Because Rondo certainly can't play off the ball as he becomes small Tony Allen instantly.

 

[KingsCitizen]

The fact, that Dallas had no one playing inside, plus excellent roll man were the reasons everyone was lauding the trade at the time - it looked like it must work. Screens don't work for Rondo, because everyone takes a step back (and often 2 or 3) and dares Rondo to shoot. Rubio has the same problem, but until this season he had Love: most used play in Minny was a dribble hand-off from Love to Rubio, that was immediately followed by a re-screen by Rubio for Love, if Rubio's man gave him a lot of space, and Love got a pretty open 3 out of that play every time. Want Rondo to work? You almost have to draft Kaminski for him. Boogie and Rudy will become a very good role players in that scenario though.

In theory you can move the action to PG-SF, but I'm not sure Rudy is that kind of shooter. And Boogie is still massively underused.

Rondo hasn't shown, that he can be successful on a team with other guys, who like to hold onto the ball. In Boston you can maybe name Pierce, and even that's a stretch. Dallas had Dirk, Monta and Parsons, but they all are mildly dominant as everyone is capable of moving off the ball. Problem was Rondo tipped the balance massively and all of sudden, 1 ball was absolutely not enough. They put Devin Harris instead of him, and suddenly their offense got back to being very efficient. In the end it was their defense, Dirk's in particular, that killed them.
Kings have two very dominant players in Boogie and Rudy. Can they change? Because Rondo certainly can't play off the ball as he becomes small Tony Allen instantly.

You raised good points about what Dallas have. But in my opinion, you always need some legit post threat if you have Rondo in your time. He is very nifty when he rolls into the paint. Just like how Parker makes his living by turning people off-balance once he roll in the paint because Duncan is always around the paint who could be turn a parker drop ball to an immediate 2 pts. That how KG helped Rondo in Boston as well. You don't need Kaminsky here if Rondo comes over. DMC will be the unstoppable force down low waiting for those drop passes once Rondo rolls.

Guys like Hezonja or Porz would be the more ideal rookie for Rondo, instead of Kaminsky. Frank is slow booted and easy to switch around.
But Porz and Hezonja (small ball) could roam around the perimeter while Rondo turns ankle down low switching between low screen by Cuz and Rudy.

 

[New Era]

This would be a disaster. First of all, if you can't fit in with Dallas then you're probably not going to fit in here. Second, we don't need another high maintenance guy on the team. There comes a point where you need to start to create chemistry and if 2 of your starters are highly volatile then it's probably not going to work. No thanks.

 

[Gilles]

You raised good points about what Dallas have. But in my opinion, you always need some legit post threat if you have Rondo in your time. He is very nifty when he rolls into the paint. Just like how Parker makes his living by turning people off-balance once he roll in the paint because Duncan is always around the paint who could be turn a parker drop ball to an immediate 2 pts. That how KG helped Rondo in Boston as well. You don't need Kaminsky here if Rondo comes over. DMC will be the unstoppable force down low waiting for those drop passes once Rondo rolls.

Guys like Hezonja or Porz would be the more ideal rookie for Rondo, instead of Kaminsky. Frank is slow booted and easy to switch around.
But Porz and Hezonja (small ball) could roam around the perimeter while Rondo turns ankle down low switching between low screen by Cuz and Rudy.

Kaminski is not fast, but he's certainly not stiff either - he's agile for a 7-footer and moves very well in small spaces. There's also huge difference between a guy, who can shoot, in Staps' and one, who shoots well, in Frank.

If you can't make the other team guard Rondo somewhat close on the perimeter, paint will be full of traffic. Good luck with Rondo rolling in that case.

Boogie is a decent roll man, as was late career KG, but the other team will just invite Rondo to score and he really can't: after Big 3 dissolved his scoring dipped - attempts stayed the same, but efficiency absolutely tanked, since he can't get to the rim or draw FTs.

 

[Jerichoholic]

This would be a disaster. First of all, if you can't fit in with Dallas then you're probably not going to fit in here. Second, we don't need another high maintenance guy on the team. There comes a point where you need to start to create chemistry and if 2 of your starters are highly volatile then it's probably not going to work. No thanks.

Exactly! I can't believe all of the Rondo talk here, over and over, when will it end? The Kings need to start building towards something, build together, create chemistry, bringing in a guy on a one-year deal who will play a major role on the team is not the way to do that, especially one as volatile as Rondo.

Taking his drop in play and past injuries as one concern, neither one concerns me as much as his attitude, which by many accounts could be the worst in the league. Even on winning teams with the Celtics and now the Mavericks players hated the guy and couldn't play with him. Put him on a losing team like the Kings and it will be a disaster.

Rondo had his time and had his moments, where in my opinion he overachieved, good for him. However I don't think we will ever see that Rondo again. He won't necessarily be as bad as last season, but if you are expecting anything like before I think you are fooling yourself, just my opinion.

 

[funkykingston]

I think you'll see Rondo as the starting PG for the Lakers either to tutor DeAngelo Russell or throwing post entry passes to Jahlil Okafor.

 

[IfAt1st]

Unless hrdboiled pulled this imagestat out of his ass, I don't think that phrase ("he can't shoot") means what you think it means:

 

[SacTownKid]

With Gay and Cousins as your 1 and 2, isn't it probably best to keep the elbows clear?

 

[hrdboild]

Unless hrdboiled pulled this imagestat out of his ass, I don't think that phrase ("he can't shoot") means what you think it means:

It's pre-injury, so there is still some reason for concern considering he didn't shoot that well last season. In 2012-2013 he shot 50.8% on shots in the 16-24ft range. Last season he shot 32.3% on shots in the same range.

This is really the key to figuring out if Rondo is worth the investment or not. In his last season pre-injury he shot around 50% on midrange jumpers and 64% from the free throw line. This past season those numbers dropped to 32% and 40% respectively. If that's his new normal, he's done as an effective player. He'll be 29 next season. He played 6 seasons at a very high level before he got injured in 2013. The track record is there, the remaining question is about his physical shape.

He tore his ACL in a game against Atlanta in 2013 and managed to play through it (it was only a partial tear) and complete the game with a triple double. Nevertheless he opted for reconstructive surgery two weeks later. The hope would be he's one of these guys and makes a full physical recovery. Are his shooting struggles the result of injury related physical limitations or the result of the team being dismanteld around him in his absence? Some of both? And why did he struggle so badly to fit in with Dallas? In general though, ACL related injuries haven't been as hard to recover from as Achilles injuries. Time will tell.

Most likely we're discussing a one or two year deal. To even get that far he's got to test out well in a workout setting and sit down with DeMarcus and George Karl to discuss what everyone's expectations are. He's a risky addition, but I don't know that he's more risky than Rudy Gay was when we picked him up with $37 million guaranteed left on his contract.

 

[Gilles]

Rondo did shoot above 50% in 12/13, but that was a huge outlier based on 32 shots: in the last 6 seasons his %s in that range were .353/.418/.389/.508/.404/.323
He wasn't even a decent shooter before, he isn't now, even if Carlisle managed to get him 27 corner 3s, of which he knocked 10 for stellar .370 rate.

 

[dude12]

Rondo is French for declining skills.

 

[Bricklayer]

With Gay and Cousins as your 1 and 2, isn't it probably best to keep the elbows clear?

Well. to be fair that's Collison's favorite spot too.

 

[hrdboild]

Rondo did shoot above 50% in 12/13, but that was a huge outlier based on 32 shots: in the last 6 seasons his %s in that range were .353/.418/.389/.508/.404/.323
He wasn't even a decent shooter before, he isn't now, even if Carlisle managed to get him 27 corner 3s, of which he knocked 10 for stellar .370 rate.

I believe you meant to say 132 shots, which is quite a bit different. And amazingly, you can actually watch all 132 of them here:

http://on.nba.com/1S2DmRM

I don't think you can attribute that entirely to small sample size. He was 26 that season, an age at which it's not uncommon for players to develop new skills. You can watch all 189 of Rondo's midrange jumpers this season here:

http://on.nba.com/1S2EC7l

 

[Gilles]

I was checking http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html, got wrong column and took number of shots from 10-16 range instead. Shooting percentages over the years are correct though.

 

[pdizo916]

Rondo is French for declining skills.

Lol

 

[randymoss1881]

Do people not understand even of rondo hits it off here what the hell does he fix. Yes he will get DMC/ Gay easy shots (I'm not even sure if that happens) but he brings to many negatives.
1. He plays no defense
3. His man will DMC/Gay all game with minimal consequence.

Also to the guys saying a short deal is good. No rondo will than just selffishly stat pad for his next contract.

Why wade cap space when we can chase Green/Matthews who will bring what we need desperately.


And why is a rumor from a Boston guy not a sacramento or Denver guy being taken serious.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Do people not understand even of rondo hits it off here what the hell does he fix. Yes he will get DMC/ Gay easy shots (I'm not even sure if that happens) but he brings to many negatives.
1. He plays no defense
3. His man will DMC/Gay all game with minimal consequence.

Also to the guys saying a short deal is good. No rondo will than just selffishly stat pad for his next contract.

Why wade cap space when we can chase Green/Matthews who will bring what we need desperately.


And why is a rumor from a Boston guy not a sacramento or Denver guy being taken serious.

Rondo's defense was completely overrated for a long time, and over course corrected to the point where most people actually believe he is a terrible defender.

He is an OK defender. Sometimes, a lot better than OK, sometimes, a lot worse.