Retro discussion of Peja and "clutch" (split from fav King thread)

[Packt]

One of the complaints about the team has been that Peja didn't get enough shots. Chris or Mike were usually the ones to blame. He's playing great in NO, with one of the best PG's the league has seen in a long time. Still, the amount of shots he gets hasn't increased compared to his days here in Sac. It's time to put that bunk to rest.

I have very fond memories of Peja and hate that there was such a big split amongst the fan base towards the end.

 

[coolhandluke]

Peja is as good as anybody not named Mike Bibby in the clutch. Who else is there? Vlade? Nope. Christie? Nope. Webber? Maybe. Webber only stopped playing hot potato in the clutch after the 2002 debacle but even then he was a low percentage option in the clutch. Peja has hit a reasonable number of shots in the clutch considering the fact that Peja was the third option who very rarely got any plays designed for him in the clutch. He is not as bad as people make him out to be. We always had the Bibby-Webber two-man game in the clutch with either of them taking a three or a long two -- the Bibby shot has a higher rate of success. To be fair, Webber was a warrior after he came back from that injury -- he had the sense of urgency after he lost his renowned athleticism. Anyway, this thread is about Peja.

A good measure of how the ability to make a shot in clutch can be seen by observing the career of Peja after he left Sacramento. If he was a really bad option, he shouldn't be an option late in the game. However, the record shows that he has made more clutch shots for the Hornets in his short time there than in his entire stay with the Kings! The reasons are easy to see: (i) he plays with the best playmaker in the league, (ii) he has a coach who is familiar with his game and exploits his talent in late game situations and (iii) he has matured in his play.

Btw, getting hung up over one missed shot in his early career is just asinine. I can fault the entire roster not named Bibby, Bobby or even Hedo for shriveling up instead of taking charge when it counts.

 

[coolhandluke]

You nailed it about Webber. You're little bit off, or incomplete in your assessment of Pedja though. Pedja's clutchosity (or lack thereof) also has an arc. You pretty much described it for Pedja with Sacramento and Indy, and I obviously lack of 1-on-1 game is a big factor. But, since he joined NO that has steadily changed:

- Playing with CP3 you don't need mad 1-on-1 skillz to be a valuable clutch player...
- Any lack of confidence in his own ability to make clutch shots that may have lingered since his days with Kings is long gone. Again thanks to CP3. The kid is brimming with confidence and playing out of this world and he goes out of his way to encourage Pedja on the court and talk him up in the media. When you read what Paul has said about Pedja in interviews following those games where Pedja made big shots or had big 4 quarters this year it's like Paul is talking about Reggie Miller.

It's actually quite an amazing transformation even if the bulk of credit has to go to Paul and Byron Scott for making it happen in the first place. It's a shame though that Pedja is clearly past his prime and only way from here is down.

I'm sorry that I somehow missed this post. I completely agree with your assessment. Pinkygate and the trade demand has soured the memories of Peja for a lot of fans but there is no denying that Peja was a vital part of the dream team of ours. He was flawed in his game but that team is the epitome of the whole being greater than merely the sum of parts. God, I miss that team. I have never seen such beautiful basketball since then.

 

[bozzwell]

You got he last one wrong.

Q: why were we soured and negatively responding to Peja?
A: because he was built up to be far greater than he was, given the golden boy treatment, set up as the anti-Webber (somehow being one of the better players in history was bad) and annointed as the second coming. It was ridiculous, and either partisan or ignorant depending on the source. The first stage was that people who questioned the hype quickly grew sick of the stupidity on the topic, the shrill claims, the demonization of the rest of the team to benefit a good but not great player. Resistance grew and the negativity toward the shrillness surrounding him began to be reflected on Peja himself, who was still the same guy as before. Stage two was when it became apparent to the rest of the fanbase that Peja was not close to the hype that others, not he, had generated about himself. Peja himself buckled under the weight of unrealistic expectations and wanted to escape. And the fanbase turned on him bitterly in disappointment. They had been promised the golden boy, perfection in sneakers, and they got a softish one dimensional shooter. Ironically many of the people who had cut through the hype earlier were less disappointed in him in the end.

Again I have to agree, but again you state just the part that makes your case. I guess I keep forgetting that you're a lawyer. I am an engineer, so I need to see the whole diagram, not just the parts that reinforce my points. Yes, Pedja was made into something he isn't by fans who wanted him to be something that he isn't: european fans wanted him to be European style superstar in NBA, American anti-Webber fans wanted him to be, well, anti-Webber star and GP wanted him to be a Golden Boy. Aileen just wanted him.

The only thing that Pedja did wrong was that he went on a passive aggressive streak "demanding" (albeit meekly) trade. He couldn't be anything close to an All Star with Vlade, DC and Webber gone. Same with Indy. Now with NO and Chris Paul, the dude is quite alright, although it seems it is too late for him ever to be 2004 Pedja (or 2002 when it come to National team).

I guess I can't really hold it against Pedjolino that he had so many ardent fans, in a same way that I can't really work myself up in anger about Chris smoking Camberwell carrot or saying things in frustration when I myself did worse things. But I do remember times when all those things were much more divisive on KF.com because our dream of a dream team was slipping away. Not Pedja's or Chris' fault. The former was never a superstar and the latter had a busted knee.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

Btw, getting hung up over one missed shot in his early career is just asinine. I can fault the entire roster not named Bibby, Bobby or even Hedo for shriveling up instead of taking charge when it counts.

Here's the thing with Bibby though. He's seen as Mr. Clutch Playoff Savior based entirely off his 2001 run. He was a completel let down against Dallas and in 2003 in general. He wasn't any better than Peja against Seattle (arguably he wasn't even as productive). He was terrible against San Antonio (his leaving Brent Barry wide open was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen happen to the Kings in the playoffs). Bibby made just as many mistakes and "disappeared" in the playoffs just as bad as anyone else who was on the team, yet he seems to never have gotten any tarnish to his reputation. If it wasn't for his strong 2004 playoff run, you could argue he pulled a rich-man's Troy Hudson on us

And I don't want to make it seem like I'm bashing Bibby or anything he's done for us. It's just that everyone on "The Team" came up short for us in the playoffs on multiple occasions

 

[Peja]

How about this.Q: Why did he leave? A:Traded for Ron. Q: Why was he traded? A: he was going to leave after his contract expired Q: why was he leaving? A: the fans soured on him, and that promotes negativity. Q: why were we soured and negatively responding to Peja? A: He wasn't a go-to scorer (1st option) and was being paid like one

Umm,just 4 days before the trade,Peja said that he'd like to stay in Sacramento till the end of his carrer.

 

[FakeInjury]

This is all moot, considering its in the past. But thats what Peja was told to say, by his agent. It's all one big game of chess/poker. New Orleans liked Peja enough to throw a ton of money at him, knowing it would dibilitate the kings franchise if they matched the offer.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

This is all moot, considering its in the past. But thats what Peja was told to say, by his agent. It's all one big game of chess/poker. New Orleans liked Peja enough to throw a ton of money at him, knowing it would dibilitate the kings franchise if they matched the offer.

That would have been quite the chess game considering Indiana had his rights

 

[FakeInjury]

Yea, im had on that one

 

[Variant]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280401019

 

[bperiod]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280401019

Story of my life...aint that about a b*&%H, LOL Too bad this aint 2002.

 

[Peja]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=OpBJD3NlHb0

Take a look at Hornets bench when Peja gets the ball...it reminds me of our Kings.

 

[FakeInjury]

Either way, with peja on the kings, we would be debilitated. We dont have a savvy passer. And Peja cannot create his own shot consistently. And Peja cannot PR if his life depended on it. Ron on the other hand, has the media eating out of his hands. Not that the media matters. The Hornets are taking a gamble on that guy, and so far it is paying off. If he wins a championship, then this topic is important, but we all know, it wont be him who wins it. I dont see him getting more PT than bonzi in the playoffs.

 

[Ryan]

Story of my life...aint that about a b*&%H, LOL Too bad this aint 2002.

Then maybe we should change this thread to "Peja and Clutch: 2002"